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  5. "Chi mi ama mi segua."

"Chi mi ama mi segua."

Translation:If you love me, follow me.

April 6, 2014

112 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobBlaney

I was marked correct with "who loves me, follows me"

The "correct solution" says: "If you love me, follow me." How is the if implied?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joseph2

The second part of the sentence ("mi segua") is the subjunctive part. Think of it like a command: "follow me!" Think of the "chi" more like "whoever" in this case. Literally something like, "whoever loves me, follow me!" or "whoever loves me should follow me." The "if..." version is just a less literal and more natural sentence that means the same thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ScottGud

"who loves me follows me" is accepted now


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sandrabruck

It was a citation, taken from the Italian version of the film "The Story of Joan of Arc".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rodomonte

La frase è una citazione dal Vangelo secondo Matteo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/skenderz

According to google it was from a jeans add campaign. Citazione corretta dal Vangelo secondo Matteo: Se qualcuno vuol venire dietro a me rinneghi se stesso, prenda la sua croce e mi segua.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AutumnAkin1

Interesting that they would put a bible verse in an add for jeans?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Uyterschout

Interessante, quale versetto?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobBlaney

I didn't pick up on that! Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lindaljc

that's obvious, then!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nicole_Di_Kansas

It's originally from the Bible, which the movie copied.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silkwarrior

Amazed by your knowledge and references as always sandra but is an italian film (dubbed i presume) the best authority? Would the translation with "if" be generally accepted? Thanks for all your help in the past.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EstelleTweedie

It's the usual English translation of Jesus' words - I suppose one would need to go back to the original Aramaic or Greek as well!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Uyterschout

There is no 'if' in the original (the movie). The citation is: ' Now let all those who love me... follow me!' http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0151137/?ref_=tttr_tr_tt under 'Did You Know?'; 'Quotes' 'see more'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keith352848

Ah! colloquialisms taken from old movies... Always such a huge assist when learning a new language...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Conn112

"Segua" is a sort of imperative form here. If it had been "segue" you could well have translated it as "follows, but in this case it is more a command than a consequence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paoluzzu

now it is accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Caterinabella

I thought the same - who loves me, follows me. Really, I can't see why "Se" was not used. I consider myself right, DL wrong for not using "se".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Because it's an idiom, a quote (I'm told biblical). It's the phrase as would be said by an Italian. Therefore DL is not wrong just because it's not a literal translation of what you think it should be.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrainneWaterford

But the idiom is translated many ways. It can be addressed to one person, or to many. I translated it as "whoever loves me, will follow me". I believe that is just as idiomatic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jrovner

,said Italian Jesus.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silkwarrior

Yes, possibly. And, miraculously, a very significant number of saints decided to touch down in italy. Funny that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/reginadel

I used "the one who loves me, follows me" and it was marked as wrong. Does anybody knows why my phrase is wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oktaya

I got marked correct with "Whoever loves me, follow me" (Dec 04 2014)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruckelhaxan

I did the same and was marked as wrong four years later. Why? I can't see anything wrong in this translation. It's more literal than the quote from the Bible but hey, I'm not here to learn that one!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blasius87

would you be able to use the subjunctive with amare to underline uncertainty? like chi mi ami mi segua

is that correct too, when you really want to say whoever (if they exist)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Khaty37

Yes, it would be "chiunque mi ami mi segua"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

Here are a couple of thoughts. First, I don't know whether the Italian sentence was inspired by the Bible, or by a movie about Joan of Arc. The real question for us Duo learners is whether the Italian is standard grammatical Italian. I believe it is, but that the English translation given, while not absolutely wrong, is not literal, and therefore has misled some of the commenters here.

First, the 'mi segua' is not necessarily imperative. It is subjunctive. True, the subjunctive is often used as a polite form (Lei form) that substitues for the imperative. But the subjunctive has broader application than that. Whoever is speaking to his or her followers here may not be using the Lei form of address. Probably not. In any case, I think the subjunctive here means 'you should follow me/you ought to follow me' rather than a simple imperative 'follow me'.

Second, the 'chi mi ama' is not literally 'if you love me' but more like 'whoever loves me'. Literally it is 'who loves me' but this is not a question so in English we say 'he who loves me' or 'whoever loves me'.

So the translation into English here that I like is "Whoever loves me follows/should follow me." That English is probably a little less natural than the English 'If you love me, follow me' but it is less confusing to us beginners as we try to go back and forth between the two languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/brunoaquila

Who loves me follows me is perfectly good spoken English, but does not mean the same as if you love me follow me. My guess is duolingo is using if because follows me is subjunctive. Does the italian really express a more doubtful outcome/a request which would make if the correct translation?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JosephT.Madawela

must get the Bible in Italian


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EstelleTweedie

I've been trying - very difficult in South Africa!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobBlaney

If you have an "i" device, I can recommend "iBibbia" from the App store. There was another one on the Google Play that I had for Android that allowed for different language versions side-by-side, but I found that made me lazy!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JosephT.Madawela

amazon has one for kindle. It is only $2.99. I don't have a Kindle but you can download the Kindle Cloud reader and read iton your pc. The download is free


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nicole_Di_Kansas

Try Bible Gateway (online version not the app); it has almost every translation of the Bible there & you can read the editions parallel to one another. I use The New King James Version NKJV side by side with Nuova Riveduta 1994 (NR1994) & it's an almost word for word translation for many verses.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis++1%3A1&version=NKJV;NR1994 Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesi 1:1 Nel principio Dio creò i cieli e la terra.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iyphd
  • 1096

If you love me, follow me on Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, become a Patreon, subscribe, like, and share!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CristinaMa670333

Citazione corretta: Se qualcuno vuol venire dietro a me rinneghi se stesso, prenda la sua croce e mi segua. (dal Vangelo secondo Matteo, 16, 24, CEI; confronta anche Mc 8, 34, Lc 9, 23 e Gv 12, 26) Erroneamente attribuita a Giovanna D'Arco e a Francesco Petrarca. Il versetto evangelico è usato nella maggior parte dei casi in forma errata. Esempi sono in Alberto Moravia, Gli indifferenti, Mario Soldati, Le lettere da Capri e Giovanni Guareschi, La scoperta di Milano. Lo stesso Papa Paolo VI, nell'omelia del 16 febbraio 1972, Mercoledì delle Ceneri, a Santa Sabina, cita la frase nella forma "Chi mi ama mi segua; ciascuno prenda la sua Croce e la porti". Nel 1973, lo slogan "chi mi ama mi segua" compariva sui cartelloni pubblicitari curati da Oliviero Toscani ed Emanuele Pirella che reclamizzavano la marca di jeans "Jesus". Il tema religioso era ripreso anche da un'altra versione dei manifesti, con lo slogan "non avrai altro jeans all'infuori di me". L'accostamento tra frasi della Bibbia e immagini provocanti non mancò di scatenare accuse e polemiche. Del caso si occupò anche Pier Paolo Pasolini, sul Corriere della sera. In Sviluppo e progresso, saggio pubblicato in Pasolini. Saggi sulla politica e sulla società, a cura di Walter Siti, Mondadori, Milano 1999, Pasolini commenta l'Italia "tappezzata di manifesti rappresentanti sederi con la scritta «chi mi ama mi segua»" dicendo "tra l'«Jesus» del Vaticano e l'«Jesus» dei blue-jeans, c'è stata una lotta. [...] Il Gesù del Vaticano ha perso."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paoluzzu

«Qui m'aime me suive» Somehow I know the French version... the syntax is the same )


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ToddPhillips

e il ricco e partito triste perche il aveva numerosi possedimenti.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TaniaDoney

Someone else has mentioned that the French version is 'Qui m'aime me suive,' which, according to my sources (Word Reference), was originally said by Philippe VI of France. It would seem that it is still used colloquially in French when you are doing something and want your friends to join in. My guess is that there is a similar expression expression in Italian. In English, in that context, the closest equivalents might be something like 'Are you with me/Who's with me?' or 'All for one ...!' Here's a link to the French to English translation and forum posts on Word Reference: http://www.wordreference.com/fren/qui%20m'aime and here to the Italian to English (where it says it's a Biblical quote): http://www.wordreference.com/iten/chi%20mi%20ama%20mi%20segua from the one It>En forum post, I think it does have a more modern/colloquial meaning in Italian too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan331603

Obscure quotes + self doubt = Learning Italian. ❤❤❤❤ off Duo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wolfhamcote

Can ama be subjunctive ie ami to indicate 'who so ever may love me'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kajsao

Can't you say: "the one who loves me" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Margaret_S

chi isn't really 'one', it's more who/whomever


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Why should it be only one?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GU7P

Because "ama" is singular???? (Just guessing...)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Possibly. But it's narrowing it down to one person which the Italian doesn't. Whoever works better.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GU7P

I'm with you in principle. I still think the Italian (that's what I came across first in the exercise) is better translated as "Whoever loves me..." or "Everyone who loves me..." I still did not come across anything convincing explaining the "If you..." in Duolingo's translation - Gospel passage or not (and I'm all for that).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

At that point I generally throw my hands in they air and think, "Idiom, what are you going to do?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RJMCE1
  • 1442

So does the subjunctive imply 'if' here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uroshu

I think this is the only possible explanation! =)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/colbymenning

"Who loves me" so why is the dependent clause subj? And if Chi is "who" then why is it not followS me? I read above the movie translation but for "if" I will include "se." And for "you" is tu. I just keep wondering if this phrase is similar to Italian slang.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

It's a colloquial translation, happens with idioms. The literal translation is 'Whoever loves me, follows me." Inferring that if someone should love whoever it is, then they will follow them. The "If you love me, follow me" is not a literal translation, but does convey the meaning quite well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doolfsaxet

...but if that is the literal translation, why the subjunctive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GU7P

No, as stated above, NOT literal. My native Italian boss gave me this insight: this is definitely NOT a conditional sentence in Italian, and so the English should not really go in that direction. Following from his conversation, I believe the more literal translation would go like this (and please remember that English - at least American English - has all but forgotten the subjunctive): "(The one) who loves me, let him follow me!" Remember that a standard use of the subjunctive is in wishes or blessings, in earlier times often begun with "Would that ..." or "May..." Hence, my translation of "Let..." I really don't know that this sentence deserves all this attention, but it definitely the subjunctive ("segua" from "seguire") being used here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doolfsaxet

Thanks for providing these details. I was already inclined to your view i.e. suggesting that because it is subjunctive the given translation could not be a literal one; but I am still grateful for your more authoritative and detailed contribution!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nan992093

How about "Let whoever loves me follow me"? (Rejected by DL.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

Sounds more like "sigua" than "segua". That's alright I write with a "pin" myself.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert339410

Duo gave me this phrase to complete about 5 times (literally) in one lesson. All were the same format.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ronaldsantoro243

I translated the sentence as "Whoever loves me will follow me", thinking of the implied biblical imperative. Alas, Duo felt that I was incorrect. Anybody think my translation works?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SarunasP

...on instagram


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve51628

I (a male) translated as "She who loves me, follows me." Duo corrected as "HE who loves me, follows me." Does that make any sense to anyone?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

The Italian "chi" is gender neutral. It means here "who" or "whoever". You could translate into ""Whoever loves me ..." if you want to stay gender neutral in English, or even "They who love me ...".

For whatever reason, English does not begin this kind of sentence with a bare "who", but requires "he who" or "she who" or "they who", if not "whoever".

In older English (let's say up till about 75 years ago), it was quite common to use the masculine pronoun for general statements that apply to both sexes. So classically you see a lot of "he who ..." but rareley "she who...". unless you are speaking only of women.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve51628

Understood. Thank you. I knew "Chi" was gender-neutral, which is why I thought "She" would work.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AzLytp

Wdszqedxcv❤️


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EvaShukevi

New Testament intensifies


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pennantao

It translates "who me love, me follow" if im talking about me, then how is this placed on a second person?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

In standard Engish, the translation you are suggesting would be: "Who(ever) loves me follows me".

You are right that that translation does not use the second person ("you").

For whatever reason, DL has chosen a very non-literal translation as its featured translation. However, I believe DL will also accept "who loves me follows me" or "who loves me should follow me".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NicholasPa38063

At this point I'm just translating the subjunctive forms as English indicative forms while swearing under my breath that the English translations mean something different from what the Italian appears to me. What I think "chi mi ama mi segua" means is "Who loves me should follow me" -- i.e. the one who loves me is being exhorted to follow me, but is not yet following me. "Who loves me, follows me" (which was accepted as correct) implies that who loves me is already following me. The preferred translation is "If you love me, follow me" -- i.e. translates the Italian subjunctive with an imperative. The English subjunctive with "should" ("You should stop right now!") can also be such a command. But what is the use trying to use an English subjunctive to translate an Italian subjunctive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/egregor1

No 'if' in this translation. surely should be , 'whoever loves me follows me'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucy163354

That would be indicative -- segue. This is subjunctive -- let whoever loves me follow me or whoever loves me shall/should follow me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RoumianaVe

Does the accent fall on the last syllable in "segua" or is there a problem with the audio?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SylviaVera

These phrases are really hard to translate since we cannot translate them literally.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MariaIramendy

where in the Italian sentence is the conditional conjunction IF? isn't chi a pronoun?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

The is no "if" in the Italian we are given. The DL Engish translation here is not literal. The literal translation into English is more like "He who loves me should follow me" or "Whoever loves me should follow me".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/screscenti

Come with me if you want to live!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IraMak2

Sounds creepy without the context ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/0JjJ6CHz

I am in level "idioms" How can we know the meaning of this idioms if we never learnt them. May be I miss some thing when learning ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucy163354

Why not: Let whoever loves me follow me?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobertVell2

This is ridiculous and should not be on here, its frustrating


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pestetreizile

I suppose that this sentence was taken from Mylène Farmer's song "L'amour n'est rien" – "Qui m'aime me suive !", but of course, it may be a pure coincidence and nothing else. Yet, I simply love it. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Actually I believe it's a biblical quote.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gregularity

I think "love me or leave me" should be accepted here - it has exactly the same idiomatic meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silnin

"Follow me if you love me" was not accepted. Thought that was a decent translation...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kkulonja

It should be: "Se mi ama, mi segui."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chevy1959

No; unless it's literal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

And even if it was, I'm fairly sure it wouldn't be 'ama' because that would be 'if he loves me' not 'if you love me'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kkulonja

Pardon! You're right. I mixed up an 'a' and 'i' order. It's actually: "Se mi ami, mi segua." But what I was more focused on to say was, that "chi" shouldn't be used here, but "se."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Except it is. The literal translation is '(he) who loves me, follow me' and it's a quote I believe from the bible, so it's a more poetic version. So if you get the tenses right you might be able to use Se, but the use of Chi here is not wrong, merely idiomatic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ion1122

Ariaflame, I agree with you except for one detail. I think the Italian 'segua' here is subjunctive but not necessarily imperative. So I would not use the English imperative 'follow me' but a non-imperative translation of the Italian subjunctive: '(He) who loves me, follows/should follow me.'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kkulonja

I thought, we were learning Italian here and not the quotes from the Bible. :) Anyway, thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chevy1959

Don't be narrow-minded. Everything helps.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Various sources of literature. I'm convinced the Esperantistinoj are using various SF sources. Though this one may actually be from a Joan of Arc movie when I look at other comments.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ivanburron

It's not only a quote. It's a common way to speak in italian. Everyone could use this sentence..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ivanburron

"Se (lui) mi ama, (tu) mi segui" it's uncorrect. In this case subject of loving and following is the same. Coloro (quelli) che mi amano dovrebbero seguirmi.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Randonneur3

A transparent faith text allusion. How about some other more literary quotes, DL?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tnel1

This isn't a super helpful sentence construction. Wish they'd replace it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chevy1959

And your comment is not super helpful either. Wished you'd delete it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antonino421333

And why do you have to be so rude? The duolingo community can be disgustingly rude at times, two wrongs dont make a right, pal

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