"You drink coffee often, while I never drink it."

Translation:Ty kávu piješ často, kdežto já ji nepiju nikdy.

November 11, 2017

30 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matt81406

Is it possible to use "to" in place of "ji" here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

No, you need the accusative of on/ona/ono and you choose ona because káva is feminine. The accusative of ona is ji.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matt81406

Great, thanks for the help. So in this case if the noun was masculine you could use "ho" in place of "ji"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lange.cz

what is wrong on: "pijes casto kavu kdezto ja ji nepiji nikdy"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

I do not like it. But I won't object if some other contributor finds that it should be added.

Nějak mi to nesedí. Ale nebudu nikomu bránit to přidat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nueby

Another no from me.

This word order seems to require a really twisted external context to reconcile the topic/focus structures of the two clauses.

Like A and B are having a bored conversation. A says, I bet you there are absolutely no beverages that I drink more often than you do. You drink everything more often than I do! Now B's answer could be this sentence. First part points out that A drinks coffee often ("kávu" being the focus of it, hence clause-final, and it does not have to lead with the pronoun because A's drinking of things is already an established topic), and the second part works well the way it is, providing the contrasting topic "já", deemphasizing the already mentioned beverage and verb, and saving the key to it all "nikdy" for the final focus.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David257932

I totally agree with you. Order of words is nightmare. Or at least it should be explained why it shiuld be so or if the translation is correct, should count the answer. Damn it!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chris95041

I tried using 'to' instead of 'ji', and my answer wasn't accepted. While ji is more grammatically correct technically, I'm wondering if to wouldn't be used more often in actual speech?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/annicehoffman

Are "kdyžto" and "zatimco" completely interchangeable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

kdežto is like English whereas

zatímco is like English while, it has multiple meanings


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/imaldastar

what about "piješ kavu často, kdežto nikdy ja ji nepiju?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

ji should be in the second position "... kdežto já ji nikdy..."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pmm123

Why is "já" necessary?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

Because you are contrasting "I" with "you" from the preceding sentence.

If you start in the opposite order, it isn't necessary

Kávu nikdy nepiju, kdežto ty ano.

while in the original order the "ty" is not necessary

Kávu piješ často, kdežto já ji nepiju nikdy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pmm123

Thank you for the explanation! I have to admit that I'm struggling more with Czech than I have with Russian or even Polish. The grammar explanations accompanying the lessons are very helpful, though. It's the whole word order thing that seems to be my biggest challenge.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xibaca

This one is incorrect:

"Piješ často ty kávu, kdežto ji nepiju nikdy."

Why? Thanks :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matt81406

I would say because of word order. Ty should take the first position in the sentence. Or don't use it at all "piješ často kavu"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hubert685100

So my answer was "Ty kávu často piješ, kdežto já ji nikdy nepiju" Am I correct to assume this is because of the position of the two adverbs? And if so, can someone please try to explain the positioning of adverbs?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

This is not so much about the position of the adverbs as it's about the general principles of Czech word order. The last word is always the focus, i.e. the key/new information, the most stressed that we contrast with something else. Let's take a look at your two clauses if they stood on their own:

"Ty kávu často piješ." - it's odd to put that much emphasis on "drink" - what else can you do with coffee? Possibly: "Věděl jsem, že často vaříš kávu, ale ty ji i často piješ!" (I knew you brew coffee often, but you also drink it often!) - as you can see, it's hard to come up with situations that would justify this word order. On the other hand, we can easily use: "Ty kávu piješ často." - You drink coffee often (not seldom, not always, not never...) or "Ty piješ často kávu." - You often drink coffee. (not tea, not beer...), or even "Kávu piješ často ty" - As for coffee, it's you who drinks it often.

"Já ji/kávu nikdy nepiju." - This is fine, negative verbs feel natural at the end - this way we stress the negation (I do not drink coffee, ever.) - or perhaps I never drink it, but I do brew it sometimes (for my wife etc.) But since we have an even strong negative expression here (nikdy), it serves us even better for stressing the negation: "Já kávu nepiju nikdy." - I never drink coffee.

Now in this exercise, we contrast two things: bla bla X whereas blabla Y - X vs. Y. The things we contrast really want to be in the focus position, i.e. at the very end. And the X and Y here are the expressions of frequency - "často" and "nikdy". In another sentence, we could contrast different things, e.g.: "Ty piješ často kávu, kdežto já piju často čaj." or "Ty kávu často piješ, kdežto já ji často vařím" (a little odd of way of suggesting I brew it mostly for you although I don't drink it myself).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hubert685100

Thank you very much for this extensive explanation. I completely forgot about this rule.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nueby

I used to like picking mushrooms but disliked their texture for eating. Anyway, this sentence shows how we could teach topic/focus w.o. in late A1, where compound sentences with conjunctions are a possibility. Kind of a final exam skill for A1 at the point of transition to the A2 portion of the course.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jesada.t

Why is it wrong to say ty piješ často kávu for the first clause?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

This was already asked by lange.cz.

We are contrasting the frequency here, that's why it is final: Ty často, kdežto já nikdy.

If we were contrasting the type of drink, the drink would be final: Ty kávu, kdežto já čaj.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jesada.t

I'll be honest and say I don't remember if I had read lange.cz's comment before asking, but thank you so much for your response VladaFu and the brief explanation, which then gets me to this page and let me read AgnusOinas's extensive explanation. Czech language moderator team is amazing!

Learn Czech in just 5 minutes a day. For free.