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"We are buying our second horse."

Translation:Kupujeme svého druhého koně.

November 27, 2017

5 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/a-m-j

The svého isn't necessary here, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tatka_

Yes and no.

  • "Kupujeme svého/našeho druhého koně." or "Kupujeme si druhého koně." We can say that we are buying a horse for us.

  • "Kupujeme druhého koně." We can say that we are buying a horse for our friends or someone else.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

I agree it's not necessary. I answered "Kupujeme druhého koně" and it was accepted. Czech uses possessive pronouns less than English (where it's often used instead of the definite article). And I don't agree that without the possessive it has to mean the horse is for someone else - it simply doesn't specify who the horse is for. And by the way "Kupujeme našeho druhého koně" is just wrong - it only appears in Czech under the influence from Germanic languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nueby

And by the way "Kupujeme našeho druhého koně" is just wrong...

If you were taking care of this course, would you reject the regular possessive pronoun then?

As volunteers with actual jobs, we need to rely on language authorities where they exist, instead of trying to set and endlessly defend our own standard of acceptability. And Czech is not like English. Like it or not, we do have an official body in charge (ÚJČ), and we gladly rely on their positions on language matters where they have been expressed.

Here is what ÚJČ says on the competition of regular and reflexive possessives:

Nezvratná zájmena bývají preferována v těchto případech:

...

Vlastnický vztah je zdůrazněn, postaven do protikladu vůči jinému vlastníku, a to zejména tehdy, je-li přísudkové sloveso v první nebo druhé osobě, např. Já ručím jen za moje/svoje svěřence (za ty ostatní ne). Podobně vedle obvyklého Oblékám si svůj kabát (= vlastněná věc, kabát, patří osobě, která je mluvnickým podmětem věty = já) můžeme užít také zájmena 1. os. j. č. můj, a to v případě, že bychom chtěli zvláště zdůraznit, že například z několika (stejných) kabátů, z nichž jeden je můj, druhý tvůj, třetí jeho atp., si oblékám právě ten, který mi patří, tedy Oblékám si můj kabát, tj. nespletl jsem se. Také ve větě Říkám ti svůj/můj názor můžeme dát přednost nezvratnému zájmenu např. tehdy, pokud bude věta pokračovat … neopakuji jen to, co jsem slyšel od jiných. Důrazné formulace Vyslovuji jen svůj názor a Vyslovuji jen můj názor jsou ekvivalentní: větný přízvuk je v obou případech na zájmenu.

Given the above ÚJČ's position, our insistence on the reflexive would be arbitrary and hard to defend. What is more important, it might produce little additional learning: The reverse exercises (translations to Czech) are presented to users much more rarely than the direct translations from Czech, so the learner will mostly be exposed to the reflexive pronoun in that direction regardless of how arbitrarily strict we make the reverse.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AgnusOinas

All right, I don't know the specifics and inner mechanics of the course, so I'm not saying what should or shouldn't be accepted as a correct answer.

I'm also trying to help learners in my free time. And I hate seeing commercials in trams and on the streets that state "Najděte si Vaši banku, vylepšete si Vaši kuchyň" etc. where "svou" sounds much more Czech.

I can understand that there are sentences where we can stress the ownership by using the non-reflexive pronoun (I'm really putting on MY coat, not someone else's). I just don't see it in the particular sentence here - We are buying OUR second horse, certainly not YOUR second horse or THEIR second horse? To me it's just incorrect Czech (twisted by Germanic influence) to use "náš" here. And again, I'm not talking about what should be accepted an as answer - that's the moderators' job and I know they're doing an amazing job.

I was reacting to someone here in the discussion posting "našeho koně" as a correct version, and I, as a person sensitive to my native languages, had to object, because it's giving learners the wrong idea and because it promotes butchering Czech by using Germanic forms.

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