"明年我的弟弟会去英国留学。"

Translation:My younger brother will go study abroad in the UK next year.

November 28, 2017

103 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/AlexanderB1195

"Next year my younger brother will study abroad in England" rejected

December 14, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/ArtBurnap

Also rejected it with the UK: Next year my younger brother will study abroad in the UK.

Probably due to the lack of 'go,' though placement of time adverbials apart from the end of the sentence, has incorrectly led to rejection in several other questions.

August 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

I've found this is actually a common mistake that Chinese speakers make. They are often taught that in Chinese adverbials always come before the verb, while in English adverbials always come after the verb. The teachers who teach this do so because it is an efficient way to produce generally correct sentences, and a teacher can seldom worry about teaching every possible correct sentence. Unfortunately, that's the fascinating problem that Duolingo faces, because its format kind of does demand the platform acknowledge all possible correct sentences.

However, as discussed elsewhere, the issue is that go is not a future tense marker, but instead the main verb of the sentence, and study abroad is simply a clause. As far as I know, all versions of the sentence that use "study abroad" as the main verb are marked incorrect, and all versions that use "go" as the main verb are marked correct, as it should be, given the wording of the Chinese sentence.

August 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Harley497499

Yeah the "go study" part sounds like American English. In British English we world omit the word "go" or perhaps say, "go to study".

September 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/whitey_chan

Had the same issue, "England" should be an acceptable translation for 英国

January 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

Technically, i think the Chinese term for England is 英格兰 while 英国 refers to the United Kingdom including Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland

March 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/MarkWootton

Britain and English are not interchangeable, in either English or Chinese

March 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ThieumL

Actually in Chinese it is. 英国 can refer to either England, Great Britain or to the UK. 英国 is short for 英格兰, which is England, so technically, its meaning is closer to England than it is to GB or UK. Specific words that few people would use exist for those two though (I've never actually heard them in my short time in China): 联合王国 (UK) and 大不列颠 (GB)

January 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/MarkWootton

Having checked with a native speaker, I'm afraid not. While 英国 and 英格兰 share a character and some etymology, the former is not a abbreviation of the latter.

January 8, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

ThieumL, be warry of dictionaries. Chinese people blindly look up words in bilingual dictionaries and repeat the errors they contain, producing Chinglish. You'll sound just as silly if you speak Chinese that way.

Also, worth noting, you're talking about etymology, not definitions. Just because the French word "canard" comes from a name of a boat doesn't meant that in French ducks are types of boats.

January 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/ThieumL

OstenCramer I don't want to be misunderstood so I'll try to explain myself better here.

Chinese has three different specific words for England (英格兰), 大不列颠 (GB) and the UK (联合王国). So what is 英国? 英国 is an easy-to-use word that comprises the meaning of all three previous words and does not actually make any clear distinction - which was the actual issue raised in this thread of comments.

People in the UK and Ireland are very picky about the use of these words... and they are totally right to be! But abroad it becomes a daily struggle for them.

Let's take a look at outside this area: elsewhere in Europe, people have already heard about all these words (England, GB, UK), but they confuse all of them and use them randomly. People call all British people "English" and even call the Irish "British" or worse "English". And I'm talking about their direct neighbours ! The French, the Spaniards, the Italians... but Americans too, and South Americans, etc. This distinction is clear to very few people outside the UK and Ireland. Obviously, some people would still know about the difference (I'm one and French), but trust me that you have to look hard for them.

Now, China. China is a whole different culture, miles and miles away from that part of the world. Do you expect them to actually know about the difference between England/GB/UK when not even the rest of Europe does? Well they don't. As already said somewhere else in this comments' section, you would hear about 英格兰,大不列颠 and 联合王国 only in very specific situations (sports, history, scholars...). In day-to-day conversation, this distinction is unheard of. But where Europeans or Americans would mistakenly use "English" to talk about any Brits, the Chinese language has a trick: they have a fourth word (英国).

英国 doesn't establish any distinction, which is the contrary to the English words that are all very specific. Since it is an inclusive word, 英国 is often regarded as meaning the UK, which is the biggest unit between England, GB and UK, but do not think that it establishes any clear idea in the minds of the speaker. Its closest meaning would be more like "European English-speaking place" and yes they also sometimes use it mistakenly for Ireland.

Its etymology as being the shortened version of 英格兰 (btw my only source about this is the Pleco dictionary, so this piece of information should be treated carefully) while being widely understood as "the UK" is proof of the absence of distinction established by this word in the mind of the speakers.

That's where cultural differences enter the world of translation. When Chinese say 英国, they do not necessarily think about the same thing as when an Irish says "the UK". For Chinese, it can mean England, GB or the UK, and even more so since the three specific words for them are seldom used. And the cultural, historical and political gap between China and the West makes the debate rather pointless.

In many cases, words are better understood (and translated) by what they are not. In the mouth of any Englishman, Welsh, Scottish or Irish, UK is NOT England, it is NOT GB. 英国 does not convey any of these distinctions, it is an inclusive term, rather than exclusive. And this is completely understandable coming from a language and a culture so far from ours. People conceive things in a different way.

On a last note, I do sometimes work as a translator (mind you, not in Chinese) and dictionaries are a very common tool for professional translations. Chinglish comes from a heavy use of online translators (and bad teaching...) which, please, should not be confused with dictionaries. Online translators are convenient tools that should be used to quickly help understanding. It is not a tool to give definite translations and it was never meant to be. Dictionaries are, when you know how to use them. I do not "blindly" look up words.

January 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/ThieumL

Pleco dictionary does say it is, though it is clearly not its main meaning today.

January 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/XiaoBai440449

Incorrect, not an acceptable translation. England =/= the UK

June 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/KX3.

England is one of the four countries that comprise the United Kingdom, it is not the UK.

September 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/janette.yeung

Surely this should also be accepted without "abroad"

November 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Keith_APP

Quite redundant actually.

November 28, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/elec35_daniellee

It is

December 9, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/freymuth

Not if he's British.

December 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Chad890851

'my younger brother will study in the UK next year' should also be ok

January 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

Nope, the sentence says "My younger brother will go to the UK to study abroad next year" The verb "to go" here refers to actual travel, not merely as a future auxiliary to study.

March 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Helen336780

How do you think he's studying in the UK if he's not traveling there? You don't need the go here.

May 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

It's just a question of what the sentence says. It litterally says "Next year, my little brother will go to the UK." It then adds "to study abroad" to clarify that purpose. The verb is not "to study" in this sentence, and if you don't realize that, you don't understand the Chinese lesson that they are teaching here. The point of these translation exercises isn't simply to get the gist of the sentence accross, it is to understand the words and and structure of the Chinese sentence, and approximate them in English.

The verb 会去 is there in Chinese, so your English translation will need "will go," or you are doing it wrong.

May 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/MsAileenW

Next year my little brother will go to England to study abroad. (not accepted)

December 18, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/BrendanKav1

Same here. Just because "next year" was at the start, rather than the end. This should be perfectly acceptable in English.

December 27, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

Nope, they fixed that problem. The reason that sentence is and always will be rejected is because 英国 means the United Kingdom, while 英格兰 is the word for England.

March 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Terence364703

Tell that to like 90% of the Chinese people who don't use 英格兰 for England.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

But dude, the question isn't whether or not you can use 英国 for England. That's still true. The point is you can't use "England" to translate 英国. That would be like saying "90% of Chinese people describe Delaware as 美国, so why can't I just say "Delaware" when I see 美国?"

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/KX3.

It is a mistake not exclusive to the Chinese; England is commonly mistaken to be equivalent to the UK and not one of four countries comprising it. The fact remains that it does not translate to 英国.

September 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/DJJammur

Surely becayse its a future tense and they know what they are doing,,,,,,, then my little brother is GOING TO, should also be accepted

December 13, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

Yes, but did you say "going to the UK" or "going to study"? Because a lot of English speakers slip into the habit of using going as an auxiliary verb to mark future tense. This sentence specifies that the future action is physical travel to the UK.

March 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/MingJiao3

'Go study' is an American colloquialism and not technically correct

November 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/lysia625869

"My brother will study abroad in the UK next year." should be accepted. 弟弟 is accepted as brother on other problems, and, it is common to use "brother" instead of "younger brother" because it's shorter. Also, "will study abroad" is shorter so, it's more commonly used than "will go study abroad". I hope this helps Duolingo, and that the answers are optimized. :)

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

Well, "My brother will go to the UK to study abroad next year" is accepted. The reason your sentence isn't accepted is because you are confused about the verb relationships.

It isn't "will go to study abroad" it's "will go to the UK." study abroad is the secondary object of the sentence.

The difference is clear if you turn the sentence into a dialog:

明年你的弟弟会去哪儿? Where will your brother go next year?

明年我的弟弟的会去英国。 Next year my brother will go to the UK.

他为什么去英国? Why is he going to the UK?

他去英国留学。 He's going to the UK to Study Abroad.

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

This is a fairly common sentence structure in Chinese that seems to confuse a lot of second-language learners. Here's how it works:

Think of sentences in their core components. Those core components can be collapsed and reduced to create singular, more complex sentences.

For example, in this sentence we have two core components being communicated when they say 我的弟弟会去英国留学。 One is "My brother will go to the UK" and the other is "My brother will study abroad." Put the chinese right above each other and you'll see:

我的弟弟会去英国

我的弟弟会留学

You notice that the first half of both sentences are the same, right? So you can actually just delete the redundant parts and make them one sentence. This is often done with sequential actions. Other Examples:

他晚上刷牙。 He brushes his teeth in the evening.

他晚上洗脸。 He washes his face in the evening.

他晚上刷牙洗脸。 He washes his face and brushes his teeth in the evening.

The original sentence in this problem is confusing because it uses an auxiliary verb 会 to mark a future aspect, which also applies to both statements. This can create sequential statements using the same grammar.

下班以后我打算回家。 After I get off work, I plan to go home.

回家以后我打算吃饭。 After I get home, I plan to eat.

下班以后我打算回家吃饭。 After I get off work, I plan to go home and eat.

It is worth noting that, as I've pointed out in other threads, it is problematic to think of Chinese in terms of "nouns" and "verbs" which are English linguistic categories, and instead think of words and terms as topics and comments. In the original sentence, the topic is "My younger brother" and there are two comments, one is "go to the UK" and the other is "Study Abroad." These two comments (like predicates in English) are linked to the topic by the word 会 which in this case marks a future aspect.

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/LuisJp3

I just quote the important part of your lecture 'it is problematic to think of Chinese in terms of "nouns" and "verbs" which are English linguistic categories.' All languages are different.

July 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/KX3.

I was going to highlight this and you beat me to it! It is a struggle to use these terms to "explain" why or why not, there are often areas where descriptions fail to encapsulate what simple exposure neatly illustrates. Reading and listening sources for native speakers, for starters, would work wonders and negate the need for clumsy explanations.

September 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JoeHedges_

This idea of topics and comments is brilliant. Thanks for this!

September 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Andres.Campe

Why do they suggest England and the United Kingdom as alternative translations for 英国 as if they were the same?

I Googled it and there's a specific name 英格兰 for England. I'd like to know if Chinese people actually refer to both England and the UK just as 英国 and that's accepted, or if there's a mistake here, or if it's a yielding concession of this course to provide more acceptable translations.

I'm not an offended Scottish, Welsh, or Northern Irish citizen. I'm from South America and just really want to know if Chinese use 英国 both for the a UK and England unless they need to be more specific. If that's the case it's OK for me. I have a genuine interest in Chinese culture and customs, this is not about politics. Here in South America many people do not distinguish between the UK and England nor between China and Taiwan. Some can't even tell Chinese and Japanese apart.

January 14, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/KX3.

It is different, but many people, like those in South America, can't tell the UK and England apart.

January 14, 2019

[deactivated user]

    Oh, oh. Here's a can of worms; the differences between England, Britain, and the United Kingdom. Are all of these covered by 英语?

    January 12, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/SimonJohns594764

    To say "England" specifically, you can use 英格兰 (Yīnggélán).

    February 24, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/hippietrail

    And what about when not being specific?

    March 11, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    This is an odd question, because "England" is inherently more specific than the UK, so if you are not being specific, you don't say England.

    March 11, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    英格兰 is England. 不列颠 is Britain 英国 is the UK

    March 4, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/hippietrail

    Are they consistently distinguished in Chinese?

    March 11, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Keith_APP

    As an average native Chinese...

    I do not see or use 英格兰 other than about sports teams, as opposed to the teams of Scotland and Wales;

    I do not see or use 不列颠 or 大不列颠 other about historical events or analysis, or about geography.

    If I go to any place in England, Wales, or Scotland, sometimes including North Ireland, and say 我去英国, probably not many Chinese will disagree.

    March 13, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    As a native speaker, expressing your own ideas, there's no problem with that. But if you are translating someone else's speech then it would be a problem to use a word with a technically different meaning, since you can't be sure that's what they would mean.

    Similarly, you would be erring on the side of caution in saying 英国 because England, Wales, and Scotland are all part of the UK.

    Basically, the issue here is: If you said 我去英国 when you are taking a vacation in Scotland. And I translated it as "I'm going to England" I would be wrong, because I didn't understand that 英国 referred to more than just England.

    On the other hand, if you were translating "I'm going to Scotland" as 我去英国 that would be less precise but still correct, because even though you didn't specify the part of the UK like I did, you wouldn't be wrong, since Scotland is still part of the UK.

    March 14, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Keith_APP

    Sorry if I made you misunderstand by my limited English ability. I didn't mean or give any hint that such word should be translated to English like that, or would they be correct by such definitions. I was only providing what usually should be expected when those Chinese names of places are used by a native Chinese.

    While many people in China may have heard about Scotland or Wales, Manchester, Liverpool or even Sheffield, I am quite certain that not many people really know where on the map these places actually are. The reverse is probably also true, I would not expect an average Englishman to be able to distinguish between Hebei and Hubei, and if they come to either province they probably would just generalize it as "going to China".

    我去英格兰 is certain perfect by all means, in terms of both grammar and definition. However, I really have never heard anyone using it to talk about their travel destination, whereas 我去英国 would almost always be understood, and it is not misleading as 英国 includes 英格兰, although not necessarily 英格兰. If anyone wants to use 我去英格兰, just be prepared to be asked to reconfirm what he said. That would not be necessary though if he says 今晚英格兰对威尔士, as he can be well understood that he is talking about a soccer match tonight.

    March 15, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    In that sense, though, it is really interesting that while the Chinese err on the side of inclusion, and are generally not wrong, saying UK unless they have to specify England, Americans often do it the other way around, and say England or Britain when they mean the UK.

    Part of this is historical, since it was the "British Empire" for quite some time, but why, when America is so rife with Irish and Scottish heritage and pride, they would make the mistake of calling it all England, is beyond me.

    March 27, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Oh yeah Keith, no worries, and by no means is your english ability limited, so far as I can tell. I just was making that point because there are a lot of people on this app who appear very frustrated that England is not accepted as a translation of 英国 . Indeed, it is really interesting because Americans seem no better at distinguishing between the UK, England, and Great Britain than do the Chinese, perhaps even worse.

    March 27, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    That really depends on the situation. I'm an academic, and I work mostly with academics in China, in history and anthropology, and that crowd is pretty meticulous. Outside of that world, just like in America, it varies from person to person. Some folks will have heard about the distinction, some will not have.

    In general, the popular default is 英国·but I've heard 英格兰 quite a bit as well. 不列颠 seems to be a bit more obscure.

    March 11, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Kristen490616

    next year my younger brother will go to britain to study abroad ACCEPT THIS!! how many times do i have to report

    January 22, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Uh, sorry, but no, Britain is not the same as the UK. In Chinese, Britain is 不列颠, Great Britain is 大不列颠, England is 英格兰, while The United Kingdom is 英国。 So, although your meaning is similar, you aren't paying attention to the details of the vocabulary.

    March 11, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/AussieCrisp

    "My little brother will go to the UK to study abroad next year." Not accepted?

    January 28, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/CiciWong3

    "My younger brother will study abroad in the UK next year" is perfectly grammatical but I needed the "go" ???

    March 27, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Well, it's grammatically correct, but it isn't the correct translation. The Chinese sentence says 明年我的弟弟会去英国留学。In this sentence, 会去 means "will go." (Duolingo's example sentences tend to favor using 会 to express future aspect, which is one of several stylistic choices in Chinese, and not necessarily a hard and fast rule.) In English, we sometimes use "going to" to mark a future aspect, so the English sentence "My younger brother is going to study abroad in the UK next year" would be the same as "My younger brother will study abroad in the UK next year.")

    As a result, the core of the sentence is 明年我的弟弟会去英国 or "Next year my younger brother will go to the UK." The 留学 on the end just elaborates on the purpose of the trip. So a precise translation would be "Next year my younger brother will go to the UK to study abroad." (And yes, people above have asked is abroad redundant since he's going? Sure, but it's still what the sentence says, and Chinese often has more redundancy than English.)

    Your translation would be 明年我的弟弟会留学在国。

    If you think of each sentence as containing a lesson about how to use certain words, the core aspect of this lesson was the way that you can add 会 to a sentence to suggest futurity. And thus, marking the point in time at which the brother will go to the UK. As a result, the verb modified by 会 is the most important in the translation exercise.

    March 27, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/EricGNielson

    Though I do agree that the 去 implied the action of going, I feel like the abroad in "study abroad" already implies the action of going. I had the same issue of it telling me I was not correct because I did not add a go. I feel like having the go is redundant and actually makes the sentence sound less natural. In fact, in the section where I actually have to write out the answer, it tells me that the answer is incorrect if I try to add the go. There is an inconsistency in the correct answers between the two different formats.

    March 30, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    To an extent I agree that if it were an English sentence that it would be somewhat awkward. But I don't think this is an exercise in English style. Instead, it is an exercise in correctly identifying the information in the Chinese sentence. So while I don't know what all they accept for the free translation, it seems perfectly reasonable to expect the translation to contain all the information that the Chinese version has, namely:

    1. The person in question is my younger brother.
    2. The time frame for the event is next year
    3. He will be traveling to the United Kingdom
    4. The purpose of the journey will be to "study abroad"

    As a teacher, I would ultimately question if a student fully grasped Chinese if their translation was missing that information. The advantage of working with a teacher is you can clarify this sort of thing, but since you can't do that on duolingo, I think it would be a little bit too much to let students play fast and loose with the translation, since this is the only place you actually demonstrate your understanding of concepts in both Chinese and English.

    March 30, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Nora-AnneD

    I however would wonder if a student had fully grasped English if they included the phrase "will go study abroad" in any answer as it is cumbersome English and would mark the speaker out as having a deficiency in English language skills

    April 8, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/hippietrail

    I'm a middle aged native English speaker and I don't find "will go study abroad" to be cumbersome in the least. I don't see any deficiency in it at all.

    I suppose with the "go" but not "go and" or "go to" makes it sound a little American, but that's about as far as I can manage to nitpick it.

    This said, it's not the way I would translate this Chinese sentence into English.

    April 8, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    I heard one of my students (American, Rich, White, Native Speaker from New York) say these exact words just the other day. And no, I didn't wonder if they had fully grasped English. And it's not even technically incorrect. If you feel it is awkward, that's an issue of style, not grammar.

    However, it is important to understand that "will go study abroad" is not what the sentence says. That's what English speakers on this forum seem to think it says, because they are confused over the similarity of a few terms in Chinese. Here's how it works:

    In English "go" is often used colloquially to express futurity. ("I'm going to go get lunch.") So when english students see a sentence in Chinese that is future tense, and includes the verb "go" and "study abroad" they automatically put them together.

    But that's not what is going on in Chinese. In the Chinese sentence 会 is what marks the future aspect. 去 is connected to 英国, and 留学 is a separate term added to the end to elaborate on the purpose of the trip.

    In English, the word "go" or "going" paired with another verb doesn't refer to an actual journey. It simply marks the futurity of that action. But in Chinese, the verb 去 literally refers to getting on an airplane and flying to the UK.

    "I'm going to study abroad next year" in Chinese would be "我明年会留学“ though that honestly sounds a little awkward, so I would probably say "我明年会出国留学.” Here 出国 means to "go abroad." In English, we would probably find this sentence painfully redundant since it would literally translate as "Next year I will go abroad to study abroad." But redundancy plays an important role in Chinese, namely clarifying intent among shades of meaning (since many chinese terms have very abstract and open-ended meanings) and decreasing information density.

    So if you are trying to teach students to understand the Chinese in this sentence, there are a few key concepts you want to confirm they know:

    1. “我的弟弟明年会” means "Next year my brother will...“
    2. ”去英国” means "Travel to the UK"
    3. "留学“ is a single word, which means "study abroad" and is the purpose of the journey. It's not even really a verb, though the difference between verbs and nouns in Chinese can be very fluid.

    This understanding is actually an interesting and subtle grammar challenge, because in Chinese there are none of the prepositions that we use in English to clarify which verbs go with which parts of the sentence. Where we use "to" and "from" and "for" the Chinese largely leave that inferred by word order.

    So the real challenge for the student is to be able to recognize which verbs comment on which concepts.

    会 comments on the entire sentence 去 describes the journey and destination. 留学 is a single word, and a noun phrase, elaborating on the event.

    If you miss any of these three parts, I'm not really sure you understand Chinese, so I'm glad that the mods aren't accepting an answer that doesn't make that clear.

    April 9, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/EricGNielson

    You seem to be misunderstanding, I am not making the argument that it is improper English to say "will go study abroad", I am pointing out that in two different forms of the question (one where you have to write the English translation with the keyboard, and one where you do it with the prearranged words) you get two different "correct responses from the system."

    Although, I do think will go study abroad is unnecessary, and personally not the style I would use in everyday speech, I am not by any means saying it is incorrect English.

    I am making the argument that 去 in this particular case can be satisfied by the "abroad" portion of "study abroad" as you would not study abroad in your hometown, so there is already an implication of going somewhere.

    One version of the question considers it to be incorrect if you do not add the "go" and one version of the question considers it incorrect to add the "go". I think either example is an acceptable translation for these purposes, my issue is with the consistency of the rating.

    April 9, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Oh I see a bit better what your point is, but I still think that's thinking too much in English terms, and missing the point of the Chinese.

    In Chinese you can think of ”去英国“ as a single phrase, and think of "留学” as a single word.

    So, while on a conceptual level "去英国“ does sort of imply "study abroad" and you could easily say "Next year my brother will go to the UK to study" and communicate the same information, that's a different sentence. In Chinese it would be 明年我的弟弟去英国学习. Or in English you could say "Next year my brother will study abroad in England" which would be 明年我的弟弟会在英国留学.

    You'll notice in the second sentence, that the verb 会 is used in place of 去. This illustrates the ways that the verbs speak to different parts of the sentence. This is because in Chinese, though 留学 and 学习both appear to be verbs, in these sentences they are not. This is because the noun-verb distinction in Chinese is not as rigid as it is in other languages. This is rooted in the "topic-comment" structure of Classical Chinese.

    Does that shed some light on the point I'm making on seeming redundancy?

    As to the consistency of the rating and answer acceptance, that is obviously a work in progress, and I think it will get better as we all continue to work towards analyzing and reporting potential answers.

    April 9, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Hahaha, as a fellow translator nerd, I'd agree with you there. My point is simply I'm not viewing this as a professional translation exercise, meant to translate both the substance and style, but instead as a student translation exercise, meant to ascertain if learners had understood concepts.

    I've definitely been on the other side of it. The strangest argument I've had to have is in translating subtitles. Chinese films and videos often have subtitles simultaneously in English and Chinese, and they block out the pacing by the Chinese text. But Chinese text is significantly more compact than English. So I had to spend endless hours arguing with the producer on how the English translation absolutely needed to be shortened, because if we put a paragraph on screen for the same amount of time we put 30 characters up, no English speaker would be able to read it.

    Although, I'll add, I'm also slightly pushing back on this because for all the complaints that this "isn't fluent English" I can't help but find these concerns somewhat out of place. I have plenty of students who are native speakers of English here in the US who talk this way, and nobody questions their grasp of the English language. So when the same words, given in the context of Duolingo, is automatically suspected of not being fluent, it seems like something of a double standard is being applied.

    April 10, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/EricGNielson

    Haha, yeah I just had a similar problem trying to translate my company's corporate slogan into English. I had to explain that if we did an exact translation, it simply wouldn't make any sense.

    There was also another funny bit that makes sense in Chinese but would literally be translated into "We want to become the aircraft carrier of the spice industry."

    There are simply some things that need to be changed in order to make sense in the other language. I was watching 芳华 today and there was a sentence where the translator went for "You have the Midas touch." for a guy that was handy, it had me cracking up.

    On the bright side, this is why google translate has simply become an extremely useful tool in the translator's arsenal, instead of putting us out of a job completely.

    April 10, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/EricGNielson

    Again, I would have to disagree (mostly out of translator nerd stubbornness at the point, granted). One needs to think in both English and Chinese to do the translation properly, if we were ignoring the English side of the translation, it would end up as "Next year I of little brother will go UK abroad study."

    Thinking of how to form this as the most perfect English sentence is part of our job as translators.

    But again, I do understand your argument and admire your devotion to the field of translation. I have agreed with 99.9% of what you have said in your above posts, I'm just getting all nerdy about the other 0.1% :)

    April 10, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    @EricNielso5 "Aircraft Carrier of the Space Industry"? To be totally honest, I'd watch that movie! ;)

    But yeah, the "midas touch" reminds me of the hilarious desire people often have to translate one idiom in Chinese with the closest idiom in English, the results of which can be hilarious. I generally blame New Concept English for this.

    April 10, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/wrickmeister

    UK is united kingdom. Clearly you are educated enough to know that, Duo

    May 1, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    If they rejected United Kingdom, that's probably just because they need to add that option. Flag it as "this answer should be correct." But first check to see if that is why you got it wrong. When you get a question wrong, they will underline the word that you missed when they give you the correct answer.

    May 1, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Justin284497

    My younger brother will study abroad in the UK next year

    May 16, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/MaxMaas1

    I could not choose the word 'brother' from the words below. Had to choose bananas instead.

    July 15, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/minpili

    will go to study abroad - this would be alright go study abroad sounds wrong - there may be somewhere/some places in America where this use of 'go' is regarded as standard but it jars horribly on my ear

    November 11, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/mjhillman06

    Go tell it on the mountain.

    Go tell Aunt Rhody.

    November 13, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/jim140738

    first time i see discussion above 100+ :D

    November 18, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/AlbertKing10

    The correct answer is awkward sounding for native english speakers. You should remove the word abroad

    May 4, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/Alan184271

    The "go" is absolutely unnecessary here

    May 28, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Why?

    June 5, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/cmbircher

    The 'go' should be optional.

    June 4, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Why?

    June 5, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/cmbircher

    You don't need to 'go' because the fact that you are studying "abroad" implies that you are going somewhere. I have never heard people say "I am going to go study abroad". They say "I am going to study abroad". Putting the "go" with "abroad" sounds redundant to me. But perhaps this is a British vs. American English difference.

    June 5, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    I see where you are confused. You're translating 会 as "going to" and 去 “as go" and presumed that they both are auxiliaries to 留学 (study abroad) but you've missed the subtle point about Chinese grammar that is important here.

    会 isn't "going to" it's simply a particle marking future aspect. It's a part of speech we lack in English. So, if you simply said 去 that would mean you are going right now, in the present, but if you say 会去 that means you are going in the future.

    At the same time, you've confused the main verb of the sentence, because Chinese lacks certain prepositions and punctuation that we have in English to define clauses. You seem to think of the core of the sentence as "My brother will study abroad" with "in the UK" and "next year" as clauses that simply add information to that central statement. That's not an incorrect way of thinking about the data communicated by the language, but it misunderstands the Chinese grammar here.

    In reality the core of the sentence is "My brother will go to the UK" and "next year" and "to study abroad" are clauses that modify that core statement. In Chinese, juxtaposition is more important than formal syntax, so while the rules are flexible, important concepts are generally paired together. (Think of this like the English problem of splitting the infinitive, except, in Chinese, all verbs are in the "infinitive" and there is no conjugation or inflection to tell you which verbs go with which subjects and objects. As a result, you must infer this from proximity.)

    So, the important lesson is that 会去 refers to actual travel, not simply marking the futurity of studying. And as such, its object is the UK, not studying abroad. If you were just marking the future tense of study abroad, you wouldn't need go in English, but you wouldn't need 去 in Chinese either. You would just say 明年我的弟弟会留学。 Although it would be really odd, because in Chinese 留学 behaves more like a noun, and usually needs a statement of travel first, even if you just say "明年我的弟弟会去国留学。” Which would seem redundant if directly translated into English, but is the more fluent way to say it in Chinese.

    TLDR: You can think of the sentence this way...

    My brother will go to the UK.

    Next year, my brother will go to the UK.

    Next year, my brother will go to the UK to study abroad.

    Does that make more sense?

    June 5, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/mjhillman06

    This is absurd. It's been eight months and they still can't get a consistent acceptance or rejection of "will study abroad" vs. "will go study abroad"?

    August 19, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    It's not absurd. Both are wrong. Read the extensive discussion here, and then start learning why certain answers are correct, and use that to improve your understanding of Chinese.

    August 20, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/mjhillman06

    The "correct" translation, given at the top of this page, is "will go study abroad." You are saying that is an incorrect translation. How is it not absurd that an incorrect translation is listed as a correct translation for 8 months?

    August 20, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Really? I'm on my phone, and the format is a little different, so I honestly haven't scrolled up to the top to look.

    I still wouldn't use the word "absurd" - after all, there's a lot of work and nobody is getting paid to do it.

    What I would say is that "will go study abroad in the UK" is playing fast and loose with the Chinese. It communicates the same content, in a way that is probably more natural for many English speakers, but ignores some of the nuanced distinctions being made in the Chinese version.

    Honestly, you can see how insistent people are when they get something wrong - demanding it be accepted, rather than trying to learn from mistakes. I wouldn't blame the Chinese team if they just gave in and let people pass with their sloppy translations, just so that they can get some peace and quiet to deal with the more complicated tasks in building the course.

    I do know that getting out of "beta" has to do with getting the ratio or reports to users down. This has the perverse incentive of accepting as many things as possible, and encouraging as many people to start the course as possible, neither of which are necessarily good for building a more durable and effective course.

    So ultimately, if it were one of my students on a quiz, and they said "will go study abroad" I would give them partial credit. Clearly they understand the sentence on a basic level, but missed the nuance. There's no partial credit in duolingo, so I'd err on the side of rejection, but then again, I don't have the responsibility of keeping users happy and the module growing.

    Each person's responsibilities will shape their own perspective. It should come as no surprise that some, like me, encourage a stricter analysis of Chinese, while some like EricGNielsen above make a reasonable case for a much more relaxed standard, and the mods end up falling somewhere in between.

    August 27, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/mjhillman06

    I appreciate your thoughtful comment. The point I originally attempted to make was that some sentences in this lesson allow the "will study abroad" translation and others insist on "will go study abroad" despite the Chinese structure being identical. I just want consistency in accepting answers, and then we can move to the debate of whether the accepted answers are correct "enough."

    August 29, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/MatthewT.6

    明年我的弟弟会去英国留学

    February 3, 2019

    https://www.duolingo.com/tehanu10

    Isn't 英国 Great Britain, not England? That's 英格兰.

    March 17, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Close, but 英国 is the United Kingdom (England, Wales, Scotland, North Ireland, the Isles of Wight and Man, etc) while Great Britain is the island that includes England, Wales, and Scotland.

    March 27, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Sojumonkey

    "will go study", "will go to study", "will study" should all be acceptable.

    April 4, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    But the sentence doesn't say that. It says "will go to the UK" and then explains that studying will be done there. Sure you could paraphrase the same information in any number of ways, but the question here is seeing if you understand the nuances of this specific phrasing. If you don't appreciate the difference between "will go to the UK to study abroad" and "will go study in the UK" on a syntactic level, you are not looking close enough.

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Karoliina765050

    DL, please add Britain to ALL translations as a synonym to UK or England. It's really annoying that in some sentences all the synonyms are accepted and in some sentences only some are.

    May 14, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Is Britain a synonym for UK or England? My Scottish friends beg to differ...

    July 3, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/MarkWootton

    Certainly "Britain" or "(the) UK" are not synonyms for England. In general colloquial usage, the UK is often referred to as Britain and its people as the British. Your Scottish friend might have political, rather than semantic reasons to object.

    August 20, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/TomAmstadt

    Sentence doesn't need "go".

    June 30, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Why?

    July 3, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/yukcMqS8

    I agree. I can't figure out why OstenCramer is oddly obsessed with this issue.

    July 22, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/KX3.

    I think not. Whether or not I agree with his views, I for one am glad to see someone finally explaining at a more thoughtful and comprehensive level, better perhaps than most commentators here. There will always be differences in opinion, even among experts in languages and linguistics. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and must both be responsible for their behaviour and respect others' opinions. A supportive community here at Duolingo is what makes waiting out the slow improvement of this course tolerable and interesting.

    September 28, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    I'm not obsessed. I'm just on the notifications for this thread, and people keep posting the same complaints without bothering to read the extensive existing discussion, or explain their perspective. If you think you understand what you are talking about well enough to defend your translation in terms of Chinese grammar, why not explain it?

    July 22, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/yukcMqS8

    I was counted wrong for leaving out the word go. Go is complete optional here. In fact, go sounds kind of weird.

    July 19, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Why do you think that go is optional in this sentence?

    July 22, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/yukcMqS8

    "Next year my brother will study in England." Neither "abroad" nor "go" are necessary in this sentence.

    July 22, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/OstenCramer

    Is that what it says in Chinese?

    What would be the difference, then, between the sentence ”明年我的弟弟会学习在英格兰“ and "明年我的弟弟会去英国留学”?

    July 22, 2018
    Learn Chinese in just 5 minutes a day. For free.