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  5. "Warum hilfst du ihrem Mann?"

"Warum hilfst du ihrem Mann?"

Translation:Why are you helping her husband?

December 1, 2017

37 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gracie_Dee1

For those asking about why it's dative and not accusative, I have limited understanding but from what I could gather, there are some verbs that you need to use the dative case with.

I couldnt find a concrete reason or pattern why, but 'helfen' is one such verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IanisDonic

DATIVE VERBS:

folgen-follow

antworten-to answer

danken- to thank

gehören - to belong

helfen - to help

Here is a link with all of them http://deutsch.ie/german-grammar/german-verbs/german-verbs-dative-verbs/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marina656224

It seems it's just like in Bulgarian. In Bulgarian, the verb "help" (pomagam) requires a preposition before the object you are helping (an indirect object). So you are not "helping her husband", you are "helping TO her husband".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SalvarezLugo

Maybe the verb is better translated as "to Give help" instead of only "to help"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

No; we say "please help me" in English, not "please give help to me".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShivangiSh417960

When to use ihr and ihrem


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/banztenak19

Ihr it is for nominativ ihrem goes with dativ case


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrankInGermany

Why help her husband? Should be an acceptable answer on the English side of things.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

That means something different from “Why are you helping her husband?”, though.

“Why help her husband?” Is more like “Why should anyone help her husband?” (Warum sollte man ihrem Mann helfen?)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sea-mist

urgh, I hated the voice on this one as it sounded like ihren. I listened to it so many times and it still sounded like that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Baconeta

I think your learning takeaway could be to try and work out the possible declensions, as ihren couldn't make sense here with the verb helfen as possessing a man (in Deutsch) typically makes him married to you, and you wouldn't really have multiple husbands... (ihren only being able to be the "her/sie" in plural dative). And the only other time we use 'ihren' is "her/sie" in akkusativ singular masc and helfen must be used in the dative case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bharath886025

It's Ihr (Female) + Dem ( Dativ Article for Mann) Mann = Ihrem! Not because of any other Logic!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vishu1708

why is "their husband" wrong? There could be a polyandrous marriage. Or could be a Non binary person who uses the pronoun "They" married to a guy.....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Or could be a Non binary person who uses the pronoun "They" married to a guy.....

Not on this course -- we don't use "singular they" here.

English speakers have enough trouble differentiating "singular you" from "plural you" in German (du, ihr), and distinguishing between sie ...t (she) and sie ... en (they) that allowing "singular they" would cause more confusion than help.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vishu1708

i am joking, of course. But is there a singular they in german?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

is there a singular they in german?

No.

(And if there were, it would sound confusingly like Sie "you" and/or like sie "she".)

German is a very difficult language to be gender non-binary or gender-neutral in.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yugo4k

I thought Germans would use "es" without much problem... or does "es", in such a situation, give the same weird feeling as "it" in English?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

does "es", in such a situation, give the same weird feeling as "it" in English?

Yes.

Calling an adult an es would feel insulting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kelikaku

"Why do you help her man?" rejected.

בס״ד


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Indeed. ihr Mann is "her husband".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nick8675309

Can "ihr Mann" only refer to a married couple? What about a boyfriend?

"her man" implies they are in a relationship, although not necessarily that they are married.

Also, what would you say if it was like an employee or something of hers? For example, an underling might be referred to as "my man", "his man," "her man," depending on who the boss is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Can "ihr Mann" only refer to a married couple?

Yes.

(Well, almost all of the time. Some people might use mein Mann even if they're not married, a bit like I've heard "my hubby" used for someone to whom they were not married. But in general, mein Mann implies marriage.)

What about a boyfriend?

That would be ihr Freund.

Or for a more long-term but unmarried relationship, it could also be ihr Partner or ihr Lebensgefährte ("her life companion") or various other terms.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AhmedSafwa8

Why is the dativ case here? Isn't it akkusativ ?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Petr515338

"Why do you help her husband" was not accepted either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

That would surprise me. Please check to make sure you didn’t make a typo and that you had a translation exercise, not a listening exercise. If it is nevertheless rejected, a link to an uploaded screenshot would be helpful.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/snpolishchuk

Could someone explain why I am wrong with "Why do you help their man?". As far as I understand 'ihr' can be also used for plural form, so 'ihrem' in our case (dative + masculine).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

People cannot be married to more than one person at once in Germany, so "their husband" would not usually be an appropriate translation of ihr Mann.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Torniojaws

Perhaps when two Germans are talking about someone with a harem? :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Natalie296205

That's oddly specific, and therefore wouldn't make sense on a learning platform...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Edgarharvey

I thought that the dative case for "she" was "ihr", not "ihrem". Any help please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I thought that the dative case for "she" was "ihr"

That is correct -- like how in English the dative case for "he" is "him".

But "him husband" or "him wife" would not be appropriate here -- what we have here is not the personal pronoun he/him or she/her.

The "her" in "her husband" is not a personal pronoun; it's a possessive adjective or possessive determiner.

It's a bit confusing that in English, "her" is both a personal pronoun and a possessive adjective -- thinking about whether to use "him" or "his" instead may help to distinguish them.

The possessive adjective "her" in German is ihr -- but before a noun, it needs an ending that depends on the gender, number, and case.

Mann is masculine, so in the dative case (while helfen requires), ihr turns into ihrem with the masculine dative ending -em.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mark436414

what determines the gender of the possessive dative? Is it the gender of the noun it is attached to, which seems to be the case here, or is it the gender of the to which it is being referred to by this possessive adjective?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

what determines the gender of the possessive dative? Is it the gender of the noun it is attached to, which seems to be the case here, or is it the gender of the to which it is being referred to by this possessive adjective?

Both.

The stem indicates the gender of the possessor: sein- "his" versus ihr- "her".

The ending indicates the gender of the possession: -em for masculine or neuter dative, -er for feminine dative, -en for plural dative.

seinem Messer und seiner Gabel "to his knife and his fork"

ihrem Messer und ihrer Gabel "to her knife and her fork"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LittleCampDavid

What would "why are you helping his husband" be?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Warum hilfst du seinem Mann?

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