Upcoming Feature: Skill Levels!
For a while on Duolingo, we’ve had a problem. Whenever we tried to add harder content in order to teach better, our engagement metrics would go down. Learners would get discouraged and leave the app. This made it really hard to make any progress on our goal to not just be a fun learning app, but an effective one that really taught you a language well.
We’re super excited to announce a new feature that we believe finally lets us teach better. We are adding a new dimension to your skill trees, which we call Skill Levels! Each skill you do will have a level associated with it (not related to your XP level). As you level up a skill, the types of exercises you see will get harder (harder sentences, more typing in the language you’re learning, etc.). You’ll also need to practice more and more to get to the next level.
We’ve been quietly testing this with new learners on Android, and the results have been awesome. Students are doing more sessions, sticking around for longer, and doing harder types of exercises. We also want to thank the wonderful Global Ambassadors who helped beta test this experience and gave great feedback!
Here are some screenshots of the feature on Android:
You can choose to continue down the tree to learn new content, or to take time to review older material by leveling up your skills. This means more casual learners can get a good overview of all the material by going straight down the tree, whereas more serious learners can try to level up all of their skills and get a more in-depth learning experience.
Since the A/B test is going so well, we want to give you guys an early heads up that this will be coming to everyone early next year on all major platforms (Android, iOS, and web). We also aren’t done improving the experience, and we have a lot of plans on how to make it even better.
We hope you’ll love it as much as we do!
I'm having so much fun with this new dimension. I'm stoked that it's being brought to everyone. I've been doing more lessons than I have in years! I'm currently working on a course (Spanish for English speakers) that I completed a few years ago and have just been reviewing each year. Reviewing, while still necessary for my own forgetful brain, was getting harder to do because I was getting bored. But, these new crown tier level things have me feeling excited again. I'm doing old stuff but it has a new feel to it.
I especially like that I'm not required to get 5 crowns in a skill before moving forward. Out of curiosity, I got all 5 crowns for Basics 1. I was exhausted from doing the same sorts of things over and over again, even with (10? extra challenging sentences that popped up along the way). The idea of getting 5 crowns in every skills was daunting and my motivation plummeted. However, once I decided to just get 2 crowns in each skill, my motivation sky rocketed again. Additionally, I realized that next year when I review the tree again, I'll still have more crowns to reach so it will be exciting again. So, I really hope this new dimension sticks around. I like it so much I think I'll cry if it goes away.
Thank you for continuing to innovate!
Edited Dec 21, 2017 to add this PS: The levels beta test should currently be available for all English base languages, minus Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. I just switched from Spanish to a few other courses I'm subscribed to in order to take screenshots to share. ^_^
Hi, thanks for detailed review of new feature. Do you perhaps remember from introduction of this feature how did initially appeared skills that had previously been golden? Did they had max level already, or they needed additional "strengthening"? I need to know how will my golden tree look upon introduction of this feature.
Also, I am interested, are skill levels "decaying" over time without practicing?
This will probably be different once the system goes online. It's still a work in progress. They probably won't have max Levels, but something in-between.
From what I've seen, at the current version, Skills don't seem to be decaying.
I am looking forward to this feature. If all golden skills become level 3 or even 4, making tree gold again will be a new challenge!
It's not limited to mods. Some general users in the forums were added to an a/b test a couple of weeks after some of us were. So, now that it's been announced in the forums, I keep pestering some friends "have you got crowns yet? have you" lol. It's still buggy. But, I want them to have it. Despite the bugs, I like having the crowns more than not having them.
Thanks for this great feedback! So in your opinion, does this feature now seem to take away most of the advantages of doing the reverse tree?
Yes, emphasize that you don't have to get all five crowns before moving on. That's what I learned and then there was no stopping me. Finding I could actually write French without having to calculate declensions and conjugations. It was there in my memory, something I thought would never occur with a foreign language.
I started the Romanian + Swahili Trees with the new Levels system. I'm breezing through Romanian (quite easy if you know other Romance languages), only doing the first level of each Skill. In Swahili, which is unrelated to anything I know, I got stuck within the first four Skills, but the new Levels system motivated me to keep working on it, until I could break out and continue with the Tree.
I definitely spend significantly more time on Duolingo with this system. Magic :)
hey i wonder is this only available on phones because i dont have this on the laptop and i am currently following french
Noone at the moment has it elsewhere as Android phone, and not all Android users. In a few months time, it will be for everyone on Android, iOS and web: can't wait :)
AND WEB???!!!!! I love you guys!!!
Getting to be a part of the beta test on Android devices has been an absolute blast, but I have to say my mobile device typing skills are horrible. I am SO STOKED that this is coming to the web!!
I will say that at first I felt like "Ugh! This is WAY too much work!" because progress felt slow. But now instead of my obligatory 10XP it's rare that I don't do 100 in a day (or more). And as I level up in each skill, the exercises slowly get more challenging but somehow it's a ton of fun. I don't get as frustrated, because the change in difficulty is introduced gradually. I start with baby exercises like "tap the word pairs" or "tap the words to make the sentence that you hear" and by the time I get to the 5th crown I'm typing some pretty long phrases that I hear (but don't see) and it's easy and I UNDERSTAND it.
You guys have really hit a home run with this one!
So it seems like this could be a reason for people who have completed their trees to go back and work on them again. Having tested it, do you think it would be helpful for people who are relatively advanced and have graduated from, for example, the original English-to-Spanish course
Gaius_Plinius, I've completed both Spanish for English, and the reverse course English for Spanish. For me yes, it has been great to go back and work on my tree again. This is not my first time going back through this tree, it is the fourth, I think. (3rd for this account though.) This is my favorite session reviewing my Spanish tree. :)
Right. And all teams can now add lots of sentences at much higher language levels. I've only tried the French thus far and my hat is off to that team. Thank you French team and thank you Duo for presenting the format to make it all work.
"As you level up a skill, the types of exercises you see will get harder (harder sentences, more typing in the language you’re learning, etc."
Good. This has been one thing that bugs me about reviewing—everything seems so easy. I like that a toggle will be added to allow for the challenge factor to go up.
Great to hear and thanks for the update!
Hey Karint and team, thanks for all the work that went into this!
I've been wondering, how does this work with spaced repetition? Will Duolingo still provide any guidance on when we should review certain words or skills? That was the whole idea behind skill strength, as far as I know. How does it feature into the skill levels?
Great question Simius! This is something we plan to tackle in the next iteration of this since it is one of the biggest things lacking in this first implementation. We hope to have that next iteration designed and rolled out as an A/B test before March, but a lot can change in three months so please don't hold me to that =]
First French stories; now this coming soon on all major platforms, I feel spoiled! It's not even quite Christmas yet! Thanks guys, this is really really really awesome. :))))) I haven't even tested it myself (thanks to your terrible habit of beginning testing on a device I don't have :p) but everything looks amazing! Can't wait for it to be available on web.
Oh, don't get me started on the French stories. After my HS trauma with French, I was hesitant to take it up again until Duo gave me the opportunity to do it without Madame looking over my shoulder. Now, the new levels have proven even I can learn beyond the basics. And the stories which again I approached with trepidation... are a revelation. Beautifully done, fun and beneficial.
Wow, I can't believe you are level 25 in some languages! Are you now fluent in them or not?
Could be worse... my first foray into French was in Grade 4 with a teacher who had a thick Ukrainian accent in English. She still had that thick Ukrainian accent in what was suppose to be French.
Grade 5 the school was trying to "gently coerce" a gym teacher to quit and accept a severance package for leaving on his own... so they gave him the French course. He did not know how to speak French and had to learn most of the stuff a couple days before teaching us (with the first few weeks was him handing out vocab lists and not marking anything, because he was still "learning the lessons before us")
Grade 6 we got a teacher that actually knew French. But... how do I put this... she was REALLY lacking in social skills and was REALLY mean. One of those people that thinks skill negates the needs to be able to talk and interact with people? Yeah.
Most of my knowledge then comes from going to grocery stores and loudly reading off the French sides of packaging #JustCanadianThings , as well as getting into REALLY awkward experiences with Metis People, people who speak Bayou French, people who speak Persian French and people who speak Caribbean French.
I decided to work on learning this language mostly because I had myself look like a total ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ too many times by accident. Clearly I'm only allowed to be a douche if I am doing it on purpose!
This sounds positively incredible: exactly what so many of us have been hoping for for so long, and, dare I say it, maybe even a little bit better!
Now if we can only get people to stop complaining about how iOS gets all the good stuff first :P
iOS also got all the bad stuff first ie Gems and Health.
Wow! This sounds awesome! I've been wishing for something like this!
I never thought the solution of reverse trees where the best way to go, just a workaround (and not available for Swedish anyway), I can't wait to try it out! Thank you!
This looks like an excellent idea! I look forward to trying it out.
One question: which trees will this new system apply to? Will contributors have to re-work trees before it takes effect in incubator-made courses, or will it roll out automatically everywhere?
We plan for this feature to be available for all courses, but depending on timing, it may not be immediately available for Chinese, Korean, and Japanese since those require a bit of additional engineering work to make them compatible.
It will roll out automatically everywhere with no further work needed from contributors, but would also open up the opportunity for contributors to harder content to their existing courses if they wish :)
And can you enroll me in this feature testing please! I just can't wait!!!)
I with you and can't wait for this to roll out. I would love to be part of the testing too.
At the time I started in the test group, it was only available to courses with an English base language, minus Japanese, Korean, and Chinese. This is not me saying it won't be available in non-English-base trees, just that it started that way and I don't know information outside of that.
So far, contributors have not needed to re-work their trees.
Actually, that's wonderful news - I was afraid it would only apply to the in-house courses, or even just to Spanish like the initial roll out of "Stories"! But if it works within the existing trees, then that means I'll get it in the trees I actually care about most. I am a happy bunny - good job, Duolingo! I can't wait for this update.
That is interesting; I assumed the system would need to be told which sentences belong on each level—I am intrigued how it determines what constitutes a more difficult sentence if this is not the case.
Excluding JA/KO/ZH might have something to do with the lack of typing on the app. Hopefully this won't apply on the web.
As I understand it Duolingo collects detailed data about correct/incorrect rates for every sentence it has. The algorithms then use this data to determine frequencies with which to present sentences to learners, with sentences missed more often being shown less. My guess would be that the difficulty classifications are made based on these data. After all, I suspect it would be somewhat hard for contributors to guess which sentences learners will actually find difficult.
I found 10 or so sentences that I found notably harder for Basics 1. At least two included direct object pronouns, which are definitely not covered in Basics 1. So, I think some of the harder sentences were rejected by learners because they were misplaced. But, this isn't true of all of them. Crowns are a new feature. So, folks can expect some cool stuff along with some things that will get weeded out. :)
See piguy3's comment for other specifics. :)
Skill strengths will still be tracked, but will no longer be as prominently displayed as they were. They will also still be used to pick which words require more practice.
We're thinking of ways to bring it back, but it's a double-edged sword (it's useful for some learners, but incredibly frustrating for others as it wasn't always accurate or didn't decay at the right rates).
Yes. Thank you. I see some learners ask for faster skill decay, which I don’t understand. If you want to study more, then do it.
As someone who has taken on a lot of languages and already completed six trees, it’s very frustrating to be told constantly to review something I know I mastered.
It's frustrating to have a a big chunk of gold tree sitting there that you know you are far from mastering but giving no indication of what skills might particularly benefit from practice.
If you want to study less, then do it ;)
Long story short, karint's "double-edged sword" reference — yeah, spot on :)
Hmm, I don't really understand (sorry if I'm bugging you a lot) so will we still actually see the skill strengths?
WaterPolyglot, I might have misunderstood, but, I think Karint is saying that we will not see the skill strength bars. But our lessons will still have us review skills/words that are weaker like before, because staff are still tracking that information.
Thanks for letting us know that the new feature is coming but I have a couple of questions.
As it seems that the A/B test has been deemed a success and new learners are already seeing the new version is there any technical reason why this can't be rolled out immediately?
If not, then what is the reason for the delay?
Assuming there is a technical reason for the delay, will the new version be rolled out piecemeal or all at once?
Is it possible to be more precise about exactly when this feature will be available.
Thanks again for keeping us posted, this looks very interesting.
Reasons we can't roll this out completely yet:
- Levels still needs to be implemented on web and iOS
- We need to design the experience for non-new users changing over to the new system
- There are a few language courses (like Chinese, Japanese, and Korean) that require some engineering work to be compatible with Levels
- We're still tracking metrics for the Android A/B test to make sure long-term learning and engagement aren't negatively impacted (so, we want to keep the test running a bit longer)
My guess is this feature will be rolled out piecemeal by platform (not sure if web or iOS will come first). It could possibly be rolled out separately for Chinese, Japanese, and Korean depending on how long #3 takes. It is impossible to give a totally accurate time for when everything will happen, but our goal is for all this to be done sometime in March. It is very rare for companies to give time estimates like this lest we don't meet expectations, so please take this with a large grain of salt. A lot can change in three months :)
karint, mind if I ask about an old feature that, unannounced and maybe unplanned for, didn't make it into the new platform? It's the old but golden, even green, Conjugate button that once had a place inside the lessons, as it can be seen here:
Could we put it back to where it was?
Thanks for your great work!
Thanks for your very comprehensive reply Karint.
This is very useful information and I fully understand why you can't be too precise about the timescale. Fingers crossed for an earlier rather than later date than March for the Roman script languages and as soon as possible after that for the non-Roman script ones (Well, we can but hope :-) )
When I joined the levels test group, it didn't consistently transfer the strength of my skills to the levels version of the course. Since then, others from our test group have pointed out additional problems. So, maybe staff is hoping to fix those things before a full roll out. I am only pulling guesses from my tail at what might be the reason for the wait though. :)
Thanks for your guesses, which sound feasible and make sense to me but I am also still hoping, for a more detailed answer from Karint. Fingers crossed! :-)
I love this idea so much, I want to hug it. I found with the last tree that I completed (Swedish), that my writing skills were considerably further behind my reading or listening comprehension. Having the opportunity to really nail that and get more in depth with my learning is very happy-making.
It is very frustrating that I can't access one specific lesson inside a skill.
The fact that I have to do the whole skill (sometimes with 8 or 10 lessons) so I can find one word or one sentence in which I had a doubt is VERY frustrating and unnecessarily complicated, in my opinion.
Agreed. Before this update I used to like to do each lesson 2 or 3 times before moving on so that I could learn the vocabulary better before introducing new words. I don’t know how I’m going to be able to do that now :(
I do that now since there's no way to search for words based on their grammar or topical genre.
This is a brilliant idea. It is good to know that you take engagement metrics seriously, and now that our trees will be revitalised this will definitely make me addicted to the screen again.
I have an idea that might work with this. When practicing a skill, you have the ability to learn new words associated with that skill each time you review. The first time you learn a skill set though, you only learn about 1/2 the available words, and the other half doesn't unlock until you keep practicing it.
Either way, I can't wait for this to be here.
When I helped as a contributor I realized there a lot of different sentences for each lesson but when strengthening I always get the same repetitive sentences time after time and that's become really boring, so I hope you can fix it
So there will be no strength bars? And what's the difference b/w this and strengthening skills other than getting harder exercises in subsequent strengthens? I think this will be a great system because I'm sick of rearranging tiles in the Japanese course. DL doesn't seem to realise that I've enabled my kana keyboard so that I can type Japanese sentences.
If you scroll up a bit Karint answered my question, which is the same as yours.
Ha, just yesterday I commented that I outgrew the German tree. Maybe this will bring me back to it? Looking forward to it!
The German tree seems to have gotten much dumber lately...around a month or so something changed and it suddenly switched to a bunch of multiple choice exercises and really simple sentences, and it would repeat the same sentence over and over again.
It has been extremely aggravating to me.
Four or so months back the German tree had been challenging to me and I was still actively practicing it. With the new change, I've pretty much abandoned it...except now I practically want to strange someone on the DuoLingo team.
It's painful to me to see how they have been breaking useful features or aspects of the site left and right.
Let's hope 2018 represents some sort of change or turnaround.
This is Brilliant. Just what I have been waiting for. Having completed a tree and then feeling there was no next step, re-doing the tree but in the reverse direction, abandoning the tree to then come back sometime later to slowly turn it back all gold. Nowhere else to go , nothing else to do.
This is so much more. More difficult sentences, a chance to progress. A way of keeping interested long enough for it to sink in.
Like learning itself some trees may never be fully completed in all 5 levels meaning there is always more to learn and revise. Thank you Duolingo.
I realise how radical this may sound, but I will stick my neck out and offer a crazy idea: how about the DL team first fixes the multitude of bugs introdiced in the last big update two months ago? Or perhaps just rolls back that update, since it does not seem that they are actually interested in fixing them: the bugs have been reported long ago, and yet... This is a very telling example: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/24701177$comment_id=24807290
I must say, as someone who has been on Duolingo for well over two years, I've learnt to dread the updates: the best features are either nuked by choice (e.g. the activity stream or immersion) or simply ruined by bugs (e.g. the notification bell), with seemingly zero interest in addressing them on the part of DL. Please, please, please, clean up the existing platform before introducing "new features" (read: new bugs).
Hey, this is a weird question, but will this affect fluency percentages at all? I feel like the answer is no, but it seems like, if you're actually learning more, then that should be reflected. Fluency is inaccurate and useless, but maybe that could be fixed, too?
Honestly, I'd much rather they continued to develop stuff like this than get bound up in a metric that's never going to be accurate. (I don't see how a computer program that's only interacting with you in a set number of sentences in specific ways is ever going to provide even the most mildly accurate estimate of your fluency.)
If they made it more a case of % of how many words from the tree are currently in your vocabulary, that would be more useful, but honestly, I still feel like stuff like making the tree more challenging for those who want/need it (and thus making Duolingo considerably more useful) is far more important than fixing the fluency meter.
tbh I'm not sure it's possible to have a really accurate percentage based measure of fluency.
Honestly, it should just be labeled as some kind of "Progress/Effectiveness Meter" Or "Adjusted Progress"
Maybe just have a percentage of skill tree done as Progress... and then next to it have "Adjusted Progress" which is just what we are calling Fluency now... but labeled better.
Also... I think we should paint the bike shed blue! As clearly blue is the proper colour this bike shed needs to be! Any people against the blue bike shed know NOTHING about how nuclear power works and will endanger us all! US ALL!
I am learning 4 languages. I am quite good at 2, and a beginner at two. I would like to know my progress in each, but I the only difference between them is the number of crowns, which doesn’t help me know my skill level.
This sounds great, but, as with many of your recent announcements, I have mixed feelings about this.
This sounds like something that would be very complex and resource intensive to develop, program, and test, and any feature that is hastily rushed through is likely to introduce a lot of problems.
Lately, I've seen a very poor track record for DuoLingo in terms of maintaining what the site has. Examples would be how the recent introduction of the male voice broke the slow audio in many courses. Although slow audio has been fixed in some courses, many courses still lack audio on hover-over for individual words. For example, in Russian and Chinese this feature has been broken even though no new voice was introduced in these courses.
I am extremely frustrated at how many of my bug reports go ignored. I have submitted dozens of bug reports and only a small handful of them have gotten fixed. None of the character mispronounciations or missing audio has been fixed in Chinese or Japanese. None of the hover-over hint problems I have reported have been fixed in Chinese, and it's been weeks now since course launch.
The forums are still littered with bugs. New posts often generate a 404 error, causing inexperienced users to make duplicate posts. There are still threads I cannot read because I get a timeout and a 404 error. Users are posting in the forums about having subscribed to such threads and being unable to unsubscribe. I have reported these bugs and other bugs related to the forums, and none of my reports has ever been responded to or acted upon.
There are also many exercises for which there will be a problem with the exercise, but no way to report it in the lesson. For example, I recently did a German exercise and it was completely missing the audio, and it wanted me to "type what I heard" but there was no sound, so I got it marked wrong. I reported this...but I still see no evidence it has been fixed, and I have seen other users posting in the forums about it.
All the meanwhile I see DuoLingo advertising! I heard a DuoLingo advertisement on the radio the other day. I see the DuoLingo app advertised frequently when I download language-related android apps in the Play Store. Why would you want to expand your userbase, when you're already overworked and struggling to maintain your product as-is?
You already lost me as a paying subscriber.
Do you want to get me back? Then fix the bugs I report. Respond to my bug reports and keep me updated about what you are doing to fix them. You don't need to fix all of them, you don't need to respond to everything I write. Just try a little bit.
Don't be the giant black hole of communication that you are.
And PLEASE stop programming new features when you are clearly stretched thin and unable to maintain the basic features of your product. Prioritize...maintain stuff as-is first, keep existing users happy, and only then start expanding and doing new stuff.
I'm someone who, many months ago, made two very favorable videos on YouTube on which I talked about how I like DuoLingo. I am very, very close to making new videos in which I tell people why I think DuoLingo has been declining, and recommending avoiding it and recommending alternatives to it.
Having the staff continually post about this new and that new feature is like a slap in the face, given how many serious flaws and bugs I have reported that you have completed ignored.
It's a new year, 2018. Let's start it off on the right foot. Let's get a commitment from you all that you're going to be thorough about fixing bugs and communicative with users about them.
Great! It is a new approach to language learning! What about the "poor" XPs? Will they still exist in the main screen to show us how much progress did we get. What about clubs? Will you change the main motivation in them, that is the XP hi score? I suppose you don't. There were two main strategies to master a language so far. The first one is to get down to the tree despite that all levels are getting coloured again. And finally to get the trophy. It is more gamefied oriented than learning oriented. You can get it in about 3000-4000 XPs. The other approach is to keep all or most of the levels gold. It is a more efficient to learn than playing. The first one makes the learner bored after getting the owl. Strengthening is not enough motivation, I think.
I hope and I wish this new approach keep motivation to high levels. Of course there is an "obscure" grade that is fluency. I wish this index become a real motivation tool for learners who already got the highest level. I also wish I could choose the questions genre, more speaking than writing, acoustics more than reading, as everyone of us has a different learning style. Anyway, thanks Duolingo!
It is important to have access to more or less sound or reading, whether or not it is based in learning style. (If the article https://www.teachermagazine.com.au/articles/tackling-the-learning-styles-myth oscalingo posted is true, it means that even if "learning style" was not true before, it has at least become true for some people who were encouraged into one or more particular learning styles as a children. That appears to be an alarm raised in the article.)
We have learners on Duolingo some of whom are blind, deaf, and hard of hearing. So, being able to turn off audio-dependent questions is helpful. I'm not sure the mechanism behind how blind folks have been able to use Duolingo, only that there is one and people have reported using it with success until it was accidentally disabled, prompting Duolingo to restore it. We also have folks like myself who have traumatic brain injuries which can affect certain types of learning approaches, or like my mother who has dyslexia and finds reading more difficult than audio. (I am excited and proud to point out that Duolingo uses a dyslexia-friendly font. I also point out that one font does not work for all folks with dyslexia. So, audio exercises are still important even for many folks with dyslexia. ^_^)
I do have a learning style I prefer. If learning how to sew or make something, I don't want to learn via reading or listening. I want to touch the materials and have someone walk me through making it myself. (added after I posted my initial comment.)
If I have a choice to listen to a book or read it, I prefer to read it. Listening does not hold my attention easily. I love these podcasts, even so I have to listen to them multiple times because I keep getting distracted. I will be listening to something one minute, then realize five minutes has passed and I I've gone on to do something else forgetting that I was listening. This is why I rarely listen to podcasts, even though the topics of some hold great appeal to me. However, if I start to give up on Duolingo podcasts out of frustration, I will start reading the transcripts while listening. (Currently, I haven't because I am trying to increase my listening comprehension.) (added after I posted my initial comment.)
So, yes different options for accessing Duolingo are important, even if folks disagree on why. I am grateful that Duolingo has provided a diverse pathway for learners to access language education. ^_^)
Usagiboy7 - Interesting that you have a TBI, I have extreme dyslexia but that has not stopped me from being very successful in a field that requires a lot of book learning; but also a lot of hands-on skills. In the Army, my aptitude tests rated highest on mechanical skills. I just learned to triple check everything I read and write.
slamRN, that's awesome! My mother has dyslexia as well. Nobody tested her for dyslexia until she was an adult. So, when she was a kid, thought that she was not intelligent. But, as she grew older she loved books. She used to read to me before I could read to myself. She still struggled. But, she was fortunate that her dyslexia was not to such a degree as to keep reading and writing from being impossible.
As for my TBI, it affected my Parietal, Temporal, and Occipital Lobes as far as I can tell.
I had a hypoglycemic seizure when sitting up high, because of it, I took a long fall in which I landed on my head. Once I regained consciousness 20 or so minutes later, I looked up at the principal of the school. She was the only thing I could recognize, everything else was a shapeless wall of black. But, I didn't recognize her as I should have. Instead, her body was disarranged. Fortunately, my brain fixed itself. So, now I can see normally again. However, I went from top of my class in math to unable to consistently do math. I can say 2+2 =3. But, sometimes my brain might tell me that one of the 2's is another number, or I might not register that it is there. Or, I might perceive one of the two as being 2 10's and then it would be 2+2 =22. So, even though sometimes I can get things right. I can't do it consistently.
[Edit An authentic, real-time example unintentionally made itself available above. The equation I'd intended to write was 2+2 = 4. But, when I wrote 2+2=3, my brain told me I'd written it correctly. :P ]
Also have trouble with directional things. The most obvious incarnation is trouble with left and right. To help me moderate in the forums, I named things instead of relying on a "sense" of left or right. So, when giving people directions, I would say out loud or write "left-hand support tab" and then delete "hand support tab". Or, "right-hand incubator". That way I could tell them if something was on the left or right hand side. Sometimes, I still accidentally end up saying left when I mean "right" but members of the community often kindly point out that i've gotten it backwards. When giving directions in a car, I just say "towards you" (for the turning towards the driver's side) and "towards me" (turning towards the passenger's side.)
Off and On I would have difficulty understanding what people were saying. I knew they were speaking English, but, I couldn't make sense of it. My brain treated it as a language I didn't know. Fortunately, this came and went infrequently and now happens almost never. My own speech did not seem affected.
Concentration can be difficult for me and I struggle with memory. (My co-mods have been really great about this though. ^_^) I do what I can to supplement memory. I use search terms to locate previous text-based conversations, or just ask directly for a reminder.
I have a very slight color recognition weakness. Sometimes I will want to use a crayon or color pencil but can't see what color it is if it is close on a spectrum to another color. So greens and blues. Blues to purples. Reds to oranges. Oranges to yellows. Dark Greens to dark blues, browns, or blacks, etc. Oddest of all, I can look at a color, say one I'm not sure is blue or green. As I look at it, it will change from blue to green, back to blue and to green until finally I have to ask someone to tell me what the color is so I know whether or not it's the one I want to use.
And then of course there are the seizures. With those I can get auras (advanced warning of oncoming seizures), sensory and visual hallucinations, spacial perception disruption, and strange body sensations.
All of these experiences have taught me that if people ask a question that seems obvious, I or others might be making an intuitive leap that is a 10 miles wide for them. So, it makes sense to take them seriously and answer their question. When someone says "I finally reached 2,000XP!" and their streak is 1 month, I want to celebrate with them. It is likely that they have worked much harder than I will ever be asked to do in order to reach 2,000XP
There is so much more happening behind the screen of every username here. :)
Usagiboy7 Du hast viel überwunden. Ich habe mit TBI-Überlebenden gearbeitet. Du bist eine Inspiration.
slamRN, I've not done much inspiration worthy. My brain didn't ask me to do any hard work to heal. It just did its own thing over the years while sitting on top of my shoulders. ;)
I didn't expected that a simple reference to "learning style" could fire up a conflict if this term is good or bad pedagogy, an old discussion I have heard some years ago. I have been teaching students for almost 30 years and I do not need any evidence to know that each one has a different way to learn. So as to use different approaches to teach the same subject, to catch up all. It is so obvious in language learning that we don't need any further proof. A baby can learn quite differently than an adult. And each one of us prefer a different method to learn. Some prefer to listen first than writing, some others grammar oriented skills, some others just keep an imitating method, drill and practice, and so. It is sure that most of us are older than babies :) So the method should be oriented to the age. I am not an adolescent :) so I need to compare new knowledge with my knowledge substrate, to correlate different views, to notice the origin and etymology sometimes of a word, to take a look at the discussion board, to search to a dictionary and more. This is my "learning style" or better, my method.
I know that some languages are difficult in acoustics and the phonetics quite different, German for instance, than my native, Greek, I can see it when I try speaking, so as I would like more exercises of this kind for my case. Instead I don't fail to pronounce some phrases from other languages, almost never, as in Italian and Spanish, they are quite close to mine. That's why I asked to have the option to choose.
I thing the problem is the same for all of us.
There is an entire chapter in Computer Aided Learning that it has its origin some decades years ago and it speaks about it, it th Intelligent Tutoring System, and I am not saying something new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_tutoring_system
It is not also new this one: https://sites.google.com/site/webresourcesforlearning/teachers/personal-learning-system
I expect Duolingo to try going further to these options. I am sure she can do it :)
this sounds amazing!!!! I know a lot of people have been unhappy with not having enough practice writing in the target language so it's great that there will be a way to get more of that.
While the levels encourage people to get more familiar with the material of their courses, another popular strategy is to take the reverse course (if available). After I completed Spanish for English learners, I took the English for Spanish course. It reverses the translation ration. The first course I was mainly translating into English. The reverse course had me mainly translating into Spanish. :)
I completed Italian for English speakers, and just started doing English for Italian speakers. I am amazed at the boost it has given me, as I had gotten bored with doing the same lessons over and over again. I also find the shift in vocabulary quite fascinating — less focus on foods and family, more on weapons and court systems. It's both funny and terribly sad, but I'm learning a lot on this reverse tree.
I fear the crowns/levels might create a problem for those of us doing the reverse trees. Currently, it's sufficiently challenging for me to be able to answer mostly in Spanish. With the crowns, it appears that as I continue doing lessons, I will start to get more speak/type in English, which is the opposite of what I need.
I get my speaking and listening practice outside of Duolingo, so I'm mostly interested in grammar and being able to form a written sentence in Spanish properly. Of course, I will adapt to whatever comes, but it does make me nervous.
We are likely to find, though, that the Engish to Spanish tree is more useful, with more translation to Spanish.
Possibly, at least that would be the hope. My concern is that I would have to repeat a lot of material that I already know very well to get to that point. I'm keeping an open mind but we shall see. In the reverse trees, you type in the target language immediately.
Einati162, as FelipFelip17 points out, it isn't mandatory to reach 5 crowns on each skill in the course. You can go through and just gain 1 crown each and continue to progress until the end of the course. Gaining crowns beyond the first in each skill is completely optional. :)
I still haven’t gotten this feature, but once I do, my plan is to complete every course with crown no. 1 level starting from the top and then progress by one level every time I complete a tree.
By 'Early Next Year' when do you mean? 2018 (That is next year, it's just so close)? Super excited!
Do you have a good idea of when in 2018? Does early mean February? or May? Or somewhere in between
i saw the skill levels for a new account i created, but they have disappeared now. is that a bad sign for when duolingo will publish it?
This could be great!!!!!!
I would start working on it right now if I could. I've been on the Reverse Tree because I needed more difficulty to continue learning.
Sounds awesome...I'm looking forward to 2018...it will make working on Welsh Tree 2.0 more interesting whilei gild up to where I was on WT1.x
Yay...loads of improvements :o)
This has been begged for... for years! I'm so happy for this new improvement!
This really is excellent news! I am ashamed to say that I quit duolingo a few years back because it stopped being an effective learning tool for me. However, I periodically check the website for new features or languages that might motivate me to go back, and I am glad I checked today! This will DEFINITELY bring me back to this wonderful resource. Thanks agan for keeping us advanced language learners in mind when rolling out this feature!
Honestly, me too. I outgrew Duo after finishing my French tree, and I was worried after Duolingo Plus was introduced that the site would never get any new features and would stay aimed at beginner learners forever. After this/Duolingo stories/the new podcast, I'm pretty optimistic that I was wrong. I'm really impressed by how things are moving.
It works I'm thrilled. You can do as many levels as you feel you need then go on to other skills but whenever you want can go back and top up those you left. The feeling of progress and accomplishment is one we've been waiting for and I'm hooked on this new system.
And on the web, which I find easier to type on, there will be no holding me back. I'm flying on the French course as it is.
OMG I needed this so badly. I haven't been on Duolingo as much anymore because of outside life and because I've just been kind of disinterested and discouraged with all the work I have to put into it again. I'm trying to re-golden my Spanish tree and it's taking so long and I'm getting so bored and I love Spanish but it's not getting challenging enough. Hopefully this makes me get back on my feet and encourages me to work on my other trees again as well!
This is so exciting! The whole French and German Stories and now this, I'm so glad and ready! I have a few questions though: Do our levels in future skills affect our levels in past skills? Like, if we finish the course and come back to re-golden or something, will the sentences in the beginning still be easy or will there be more difficulty in them? Also, do skills only become gold after one reaches level 5? And, this question may be annoying, but when will we get Tips & Notes on mobile? Lastly, will we have crowns next to each language flag online, some time in the future, almost as a way to show others that even though one may be low-leveled in a language, they have finished the tree and goldened everything?
That's all, thank you so much, I'm so happy and it's truly feeling like Christmas now hahaha! Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas!!!
Good Morning As a person who was completely motivated to always keep all of the skills gold, this is the worst decision possible. I realize that it is inefficient to switch it back for a small group of people or, in fact, do the following. But would there be any way to switch back from the crowns which have now successfully repulsed me from Duolingo, as I'm sure it has with a number of other people. Many thanks
But this is not the worst decision. They've done their A/B test and the Duolingo users obviously increased their usage of the application.
Given that their sample during A/B testing is representative of the Duolingo users, they do not mind if you stop using the app.
A/B test is not personalized for your own individual needs, it's optimizing over the whole userbase.
So if a bunch of users use the app more, but some leave because there's no golding incentive, you're in bad luck.
The world in whole is getting better, the individual response is not that important.
so : too bad for us "poor individuals" !!!! "you don't matter" is that it ????!!
I hate this new version too !!! way too much work is asked now ! It's like doing the tree 5 times with the number of lessons doubled each time you pass a level crown !! I don't see the end of it , it will never ends , how many time do we need to finish the tree : 3 years ??!!!!!! I don't think people realise the amount of work that we need to do now . Lots of people seem overly excited without having starting it yet ...... I know, I understand that it's the way DL want to keep their users : by adding more work : but to mee it has the opposite effect . Personaly I am frustrated and demotivated . I finished the english tree ,I was keeping it gold while moving forward with the others trees. Now I don't want to do anything in this tree : redo it 5 times with always more lessons ?? No, not for me !
I know learning a langage is a marathon not a sprint, but when I see the rest of what I need to do , I just lost my motivation and I will spend so much less time on DL now ..... Just the opposite effect on me ....
I was being sarcastic. Of course population testing is ridiculous when it comes to learning.
You don't want to leave people behind if they can't learn the same way as everyone else.
It's just how the cruel algorithm works.
Indeed ; sadly the website./app is not customisable enough so each of us can choose what we prefer ..
Well, think from a perspective of a student. How does a student know which methods work the best? You cannot know how to push yourself to be most efficient.
You cannot know what features keep your attention. You might know which features don't keep your attention, but allowing users to accidentally destroy their Duolingo experience by themselves is probably not what is desired.
Congratulations finishing your tree. Do you think you' have enough of the base to start using a different approach to continuing your study of the language? I don't think anyone benefits by being frustrated doing the same thing over and over again.
Before I was a language teacher in a high school I was an immigrant who had to learn languages in the schoolyard. Besides my native language which is Hungarian I had to learn German, English, and French because it was necessary.
At the time there were no English as a second language, or the equivalent, anywhere I was. I learned fluent German in one year and then we left. When we lived in Montreal I learned English well enough to be the best student in my class by the spring of the second year we lived there. In the meantime I learned French in the schoolyard, supplemented by French classes at school.
I was only a language teacher for a few years after graduating from university because the local school was desperate for covering those classes and I needed a job. I didn't have any experience in language teaching or any kind of teaching. I was an English major and continued to grad school a few years later.
The high school had a very forward thinking approach to language. There was no reading and writing in the first year, and therefore no written tests since it was in a time before testing was more important than teaching! The students learned the way that babies and toddlers do by focusing on listening and then recording responses on tape, matching them to the sounds, words and sentences they were trying to repeat. Second-year students who are ready doing some speaking and of course learning to write and read.
I have read studies that show that even most college students don't pay attention for more than 15 minutes during a class so three weeks spent in a high school language class is equal to approximately four weeks in immersion in another country. Imagine that!
So, I believe that you would be better off getting into any kind of immersion learning that you can. One good thing you can do, since you already have a good introduction to your language is to join a local language club that meets at least weekly for conversation. There are people online who would like to exchange learning English for teaching you their language, for free! using Skype, FaceTime or any other free video phone app.
I am sure you've heard this before: watch movies, listen to the radio, get easy books to read in the language that you are learning.
I am sure you will make progress without so much frustration. I really like duolingo but it is not intended to take you to fluency.
Keep moving forward!
Finally, a way to cater to both casual and more serious learners at the same time.
This is a great feature; I can already see it's going to be very beneficial. I can't wait to try it out!
I have some serious (;p) questions: Does leveling up a skill lock you out of the lower-level sentences i.e. do you have less sentences to practice overall as you progress? Or is leveling simply a weighting system, favouring the choice of harder sentences vs easier sentences, while still throwing in an easy one every now and then?
I'm afraid of being locked out of content, regardless of how it means one is progressing; however, I am a fan of the leveling system. I'm assuming it is linked to a hidden fluency score per skill. If so, does this mean that the skill level drops over time or still only the skill strength?
Any finally (for German... and all languages I guess), please add native conversations as a skill! Sort of like the stories. Y'know, the whole skill and each lesson actually being a single conversation that is naturally spoken eg. filled with every modal particle like denn, doch, schon, ja, halt, eben etc. and even non-modal filler words like so, na etc. to the brim and even some slang (preferably, a conversation is based in a region and the slang is locked to that region; however, national terms to be kept).
And finally (for German especially): how about some skills that analyse the different dialects? It is useful to know that some Bavarians (excuse my poor Bayerisch... ) refer to 'heute noch' as 'heint noa' and 'nicht wahr sein' as 'niet wor sie' etc. (Sorry, I went off topic here. This became sort of a wishlist rather than feedback :D)
Yes, we all had that fear when we started testing. I started by getting two crowns in the first (easy) French skills then went on to harder ones and returned to the easy ones for review when I found I needed to. All my crowns were there waiting for me.
By testing, are you referring to the skill levels? If so, are you able to return to the older levels for review? That is probably my biggest concern.
Did you have to choose what level you want to practice when you started the strengthen exercise?
Or did it do it automatically with e.g mixing behind the scenes?
There could some options like:
- specific level
- highest you gained
This is an excellent idea because it makes learning better for beginners or more advanced learners!
Thank you for this update--I'm looking forward to seeing how this feature unfolds in the future! :-)
Hi, Duo! I am a retired modern language (Spanish, French, English) teacher.
I recently decided to use Duolingo to refresh my German.
I read this post with interest because I've found my "engagement metric" going down with certain lessons.
Some of the lessons present too much too fast. The information arrives in indigestible lumps.
Here's what I would do if I were teaching the lessons.
The first lesson that really tripped me up was the introduction of the dative.
What does the student need to learn here? She needs to learn four patterns, the masc, fem, and neut singular and the plural. (Okay, the masc and the neuter are the same, but they still have to be learned.)
Presenting the genders together in the same exercise makes it harder for the brain to perceive the patterns.
If I were teaching these patterns, I would teach them separately.
The first exercise would use only feminine nouns; the second, masculine nouns; the third, neuter nouns; the fourth, plural nouns.
That gives the student the opportunity to master each pattern in turn. And even though the masc and the neut are the same, I would teach them separately because it's so darned hard to learn genders, I would do everything I could to help students remember nouns by their class.
In fact, up until now, all the lessons I've had trouble with were the lessons about prepositions and case.
Each exercise, ideally, would introduce one new structure. For example, I would write an exercise presenting ams. Each of the sentences in the exercise would use ams, but with the different prepositions.
Then I'd introduce am, then aufs, then beim, etc.
And finally, I'd rewrite the Notes so that they contained only the information practiced in the exercises. So, for example, if the exercises presents accusative prepositions, I would leave out the info about dative prepositions. Less is more, here.
Thank you for giving me an opportunity to vent.
You should post this on the German forum. It won't be seen here, buried in an irrelevant thread.
I wonder if this will solve the problem of excessive repetition of basic vocab and grammar which I have learned a long time ago (now 4 years on Duolingo). I no longer use the tree for this reason. Because of the need to learn new vocabulary, I've gone elsewhere on Internet because I'm no longer challenged on Duolingo. Endlessly repeating the same content has no appeal. So I look forward to seeing how this works. Anyhow, I do use Duolingo stories for practice which provides new content and conversation that is fun and relevant to my skill level. Glad to see the quest for improving Duolingo which I have recommended to beginners (as well as languagetransfer.org)
I've been hoping for this for a couple of years. Of course, I could find no path to make a suggestion because you have none on the site.
Also, while I'm here (not that you'll read it with 537 comments so far):
I like to help support fantastic programs such as Duo, but I hate subscriptions. If you will set up a "contribution" page, I would gladly contribute from time to time as I do with Wiki and others. I suspect there are many like me, who appreciate Duo very much, would like to help financially, but don't want to be saddled with "payments." Give it a try ($25, $50, $100); your coders could set it up in a day; and a contribution would NOT free the donor from the advertising.
So my skills no longer decay? How am I supposed to know when to revise each skill then? Just going over the skills loads to get the highest number of crowns isn't any good in the long term if they don't decay and remind me to revise them periodically. Have we basically lost spaced repetition which I thought was supposed to be what this site was about?
Hey I just feel I've lost my progress with this feature. Why should I return to the very basic? It seems pointless because I've always studied the old and new lessons, so all of them were gold. Can I return to the old version, or is there a way to make the exercises match my level again?
Most of us must have this problem. Before I found this Discussion, I'd posted this elsewhere: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26635736 There is no suggested way to transition and so the question is how to proceed. Do I work through the tree again from scratch (Crown Level 66: why isn't it 0?)? I worked the first basic skill through to Level 5 (gold) and found it very repetitive, so there seems to be little memory value to go through to level 5 one skill at a time. Fortunately, I'd kept a detailed record of my past progress, and although my course (Italian) had just 29% of the skills on verbs, I'd spent 46% of my strengthening effort on verb skills, especially the more complex ones.. So my current plan is to work through the 19 verb skills (it would help if they were all colour-coded in the same colour!), increasing each skill by one level, and then repeat a further 3 times to get them all to Level 5. At that point I'll see how/if they fade over time, if the strengthening algorithm is still applied.
Please help me to revert from Crowns back to the original tree version.
I miss being able to get previews of different lessons and the vocab associated with each lesson. With Crowns, it launches straight into drills. No previews.
Someone please help me go back to the original version.
I felt really disappointed after converting to the Crowns version as I can no longer quickly browse through each of the lessons.
Working from this page my help: https://duolingo.eu/fin.props/progress/ It gives me similar functionality for my Italian tree to what I had before, and I'm using it to strengthen the skills that are no longer 100% (which was gold in the old system). Clicking on the skills presents the skill lessons in the way it was before. Clicking on the 3 dots gives you the Notes. For gold skills, the dates shows when you completed that skill.
The problem is not Duo trying a new system that will (hopefully) be more challenging. The problem is we can't get to the challenging stuff without wasting time on reviewing the simple stuff that we know. You need to have a way of testing out on a crown level! Or allow us to choose the level we want to work at...if it is too hard we can select a lower level. We are all self-motivated anyway...let us challenge ourselves with the higher levels without being forced to wade through the simple stuff.
I strongly dislike not being able to see the strength levels for individual skills anymore. My learning strategy was to get/keep every learned skill gold before learning anything new. I found that I forgot things after not doing them for a while, so I found the decaying very useful.
Awesome! Can't wait to test this new feature. I've already finished whole tree, stories and most of the bots conversations. Seeing your hard work really makes me happy to use Duolingo!
It will. See "Since the A/B test is going so well, we want to give you guys an early heads up that this will be coming to everyone early next year on all major platforms (Android, iOS, and web)."
Amazing news, and WAY more motivating than the health feature. Can't wait to try it out!
Can't wait! Especially as I'm someone who really likes to make sure I know everything before taking on new stuff.
Ah, this explains why my website view and my app view is so different. I'm clearly in the testing group without realising it! And yes, it is excellent, much, much better than the website way of doing things. I love levelling up and the exercises are very useful. I'm not really sure if I need strengthening and levelling though? Duolingo is still a bit confusing to use because the help files are never up-to-date... I should subscribe to help you guys :-).
That's cool, but can you add TIPS AND NOTES section to the mobile app please?
So lovely to hear that Duolingo is taking more serious learners more seriously. These new features do indeed sound like a good idea and I look forward to them. Balancing the needs of different learners must be difficult. It is interesting to note that you say that people were abandoning the app when it got too challenging. I am the opposite. I never use the app because it is too childish for me. By that I mean that I enjoy learning purely for the sake of learning and I get frustrated with all the gimmicky things such as Xp, lingots, and whatever else that I don’t care about (as for loosing lives for mistakes - that just destroyed my moral and I kept giving up while wondering why I cannot just get on with learning the language with no distractions.) I have not touched the app in over six months but I would happily return if it were possible to disable these extras so that I could focus on learning.
Sounds good but what happened to the Progress Quiz. I liked them and now there is no motivation to collect lingots.
This sounds so good that I am sad that I am not a Web A/B tester for it! That said, there is just one thing I would request: Please call it something else. Newcomers are all ready a bit confused about XP levels, and we don't need another type of level. Maybe "skill understanding meter" or something else. =)
NoNoEsImposible, this is actively in discussion. I agree with you. Personally, I've switched to just calling it crowns. When I want to specifically talk about how many crowns, I phrase it as # + crowns. For instance, "I want to reach 2 crowns in each skill." An idea I floated before doing that was calling them "crown tiers" since Immersion is now defunct.
Keep generating ideas folks! Staff's reading our comments. :)
Crown tiers sounds like a fun and descriptive way of putting it. I can't wait to see what the Duo Staff chooses.
P.S. Sorry I took a little while to respond. Ever since the new forum update I haven't had discussion replies pop up in my notification bell on the upper right. I tried turning on email notifications but that forces you to follow the discussion, which I often forget to do. =)
I've been proposing to introduce some system of difficulty levels since day one. Because it's an essential part of any gamification. I'm really happy that it is finally implemented. Now there is a point for us, volunteers, to add more sentences to the skills. Previously it was all in vein as users could only see the easiest ones.
Oh boy oh boy... another thing for those of us who compulsively require ourselves to have everything maxed out and the best on this website.
And yeah, it is kind of needed. Right now I describe Duolingo as an awesome first step to knowing a language really well. Get through the stuff here--then move onto having conversations and watching media and stuff... but from what it appears with this new feature (maybe I'm a bit on the hype-train too much here)--you could possibly start doing that stuff more effectively more earlier on in your courses here.
Now... if only there were more things I could spent Lingots on... >.>' Even if it were ridiculous things like an image of a top hat or something.
An approximate timeline for full roll out would be really useful. First quarter, second quarter, delayed?
Apologies if this has been answered already; I did look, but didn't see that it had been.
With the update to the crowns system, is it the case that using the general practice option (blue oblong shape with the little barbell, when doing Duo on a browser) does not help you level up at all? I tried it a couple of times and did not see that doing that counted as any progress toward advancing any of the crown levels. So if that is the case, what's now the point of using the general practice option? Used to be that I would do the timed option as a challenge, and (usually!) to get more points more quickly.
As far as I understand, crowns never disappear or decay. Once you reach five crowns, you keep them forever. But you should still practice so you don't forget words. See my post right above yours.
Right. Thank you. I’m wondering if the barbell is any use in a “visible progress” sense any longer (before I have earned max crowns and if I am using the new system on every device I own). It doesn’t seem to advance the crown status at all, in my experience, which admittedly is a bit limited.
If crowns don't decay how are we supposed to know when to review skills in the long term after we have got all the crowns?!
I expect that that's where the general practice option is meant to come in useful - presumably (?) it'll choose the words that you haven't reviewed in the longest time?
This would be nice if strengthening works. Yesterday I had 20+ variations/repetitions of the same sentence while doing strengthening. I haven't seen some words long enough that I've practically forgotten them. I've completed a lesson previously and didn't see those words repeated but instead got that old sentence 20+ times.
Since upgrading, I can't find the vocabulary list for each lesson. I found these extremely valuable to use with Forvo for better pronunciations. Are they hidden somewhere? I will definitely regret upgrading if they are no longer available.
Dagnabit! why don't you have some kind of sticky or button with the label "we're totally undermining the many many months of hard work you've put in over the last three years and we didn't bother telling you until now?" Y'all may be really excited, but I can't find any words to describe how much I hate how you don't roll things out, you just drop them on our heads from a great height.
Just upgraded to the new feature. I really miss the lesson preview with the words used in the lesson (or a short summary of lesson content). Now I have plenty of 0/10 and some kind of preview would motivate starting an exercise rather than going blind.
There was a preview on the mobile app. You could see the lessons in a skill and see the words before learning it. Now you can't. Although I'm not sure if same happened to the web app.
Yes, but the vocabulary list is gone. I would copy that to notepad before doing a lesson. When the synthesized voice was hard to understand I would refer to the list, check out what I thought was being spoken, and go to Forvo to hear some actual native speakers. This was a great help. I can't understand why it is gone.
Hang on! I just went to: https://duolingo.eu/GrahamWarr/progress/ and clicked on the Skill links, and it presented the vocabulary lists for the lessons in that Skill in my course (Italian), on a screen that looked just how it was to take a lesson pre-crowns. For gold skills, it also seems to allow me to re-do a specific lesson as well as strengthen. Perhaps it will work for you for your Russian course.
Yes that works. It is unfortunate many of these littlt hidden gems are hidden. Thank you!
In Italian, there are only "Tips and Notes" for about 1/3 of the 66 skills.
Can anyone confirm or deny that timed practice still works with this system?
Timed practice works if you have all 5 crowns in a skill or you use the general practice feature.
Thank you for the information. I don't like the sound of this, however--I like to use timed practice to learn specific skills more efficiently with the time constraint (having to think quickly is much more conducive to retention); this will be of little value if I have to practise the skill to death (48 times?) slowly first.
Considering that timed practice is an 'extra' bought with lingots, I don't think its use should be curtailed in the way your describe.
I'm waiting to decide whether I like it or not until I've given Levels a fairer trial. But at present I suspect my opinion will be in full agreement with yours.
The general practice feature also does not, as far as I can tell by having tried it a few times, give you any progress toward advancing any crown levels. Used to be that general practice (timed or otherwise) would see what I was weak in and give me progress toward re-gilding a unit that had deteriorated such that it was no longer gold, even if I hadn't selected that unit. Unless I'm missing something here, I find this very unfortunate.
I'm sharing the same concern, and glad to see I'm not the only one. While I like the new update and having a new motivation to practice each lessons many dozens of times, I've been using the timed practice feature exclusively for over a year now. I used to enjoy how timed practice would prioritize lessons that seemed to be getting weaker over time, as well as the option to use the timed practice feature in individual skills regardless of that skill's level; getting a skill to level 5 before timed practice unlocks again does seem unfortunate. Now it seems like using timed practice is a trivial novelty, as it doesn't give me the same feeling of accomplishment (from increasing skill levels) as before. If there was a way the developers could rework timed practice to increase skill levels, I'd be in love all over again!
(At the very least, I'd like to see the "practice again" option appear after working on specific skills, rather than having to click through the skill tree to find my skill and confirm what I'd like to work on for each practice. It seems this small feature has disappeared with the update as well :)
Agreed so much. The fact that timed practice is only available at level 5 and there is no word list anymore lessens my initial excitement by the minute (I don't have it yet, but I couldn't wait... No I'm not even sure I want it anymore).
The timed practice is necessary to really challenge oneself and train to think fast. It is my main way of studying on Duo.
The word list is for me essential on making my own flashcards to use with Anki.
Plus, I know I'd want everything to be completed even without the timed practice only being available at the end, but if I take a longer break, I'd like to lower the skill level of one particular skill either manually or through decay, which also doesn't seem to be possible. I'd also love to just practice without the difficulty being increased the next time. I think it hinders the ability for everyone to learn at their own speed.
So I noticed that I can't go into the subject "chapters" and see what words were in each lesson, and track my progress that way and that because of this the written information is now unavailable. I found reading those always made it easier for me to understand and complete the lessons with more accuracy. Is there a reason that this feature was taken away?
Great question! The vocab list isn't even visible on desktop. Would love to know the answer to this.
I don't know why it happened but there are workarounds. Wikia has Duolingo pages with they're broken down by language and skill, Memrise has Duolingo vocab with audio courses, I'm doing the Hebrew one
Can't answer the question of "why" - but I hope this helps. I read someone said the notes are available in the new methood when hovering over a lightbulb image (I hope'll be able to see the old display this way- let me know if yes\no). Press the three dots next to a skill to see the notes: https://www.duolingo.eu/BlindgoFar/progress
I hate this new update. I depended on the breakdown of each section into lessons so I could drill them to make sure I was nailing the vocabulary before moving on, and now I have no choice but to move on to harder and harder things without the time I need to get a base under me. Also, being able to go back to lessons and practice without fear of losing life credits was invaluable! This new update has left me with the exact opposite of what you wanted. I’m not encouraged to come back to the app and study more.
I hope, but know you won’t, allow us to choose to go back to the old platform, but I don’t believe I have as good of a chance at solidly learning a new language under this new update. I implore you to allow people to choose the older platform if they dont work well on this new update
I have been using the crown system for a short time and a few issues have risen. First of all, I dislike that we are now unable to see the lesson content because I've been using duolingo to learn Chinese, a language I already know, and its now difficult for me to see if I'm able to test out of some of the lessons because I no longer am able to look at the content that I'll be learning. Which is another thing, it seems I can't test out of lessons anymore. Second of all, I think it is important to include grammar tips and notes on the mobile version too because I don't have access to a laptop all the time and the desktop version has important notes that help the lessons make more sense. Please allow for users to choose whether or not to use the crown system or the old system with the gold lessons. I don't believe the crown system works well for casual learners at all and the older system was honestly better for casual learners. I appreciate that you guys are trying to make harder lessons for more serious learners, but it should really be an option for users individually. I have been looking through forums and a lot of people are complaining about not being able to switch back to the old system and some are breaking their streak that is in the thousands on their account because of the new system which is really sad to see. I hope you guys take these comments into consideration and fix the issues mentioned above.
Thank you, I was unaware of this. I still think they should reincorporate it back into the app though, it was much more convenient then.
I don't want to test out of entire sections, just specific lessons where my Chinese is stronger. Thank you for your reply though, I appreciate it.
Exactly I don't think this update is good because once you do a lesson you can't redo it and I liked to always go back to old lessons and normally I only go onto a new lesson if I get my current one correct without any mistakes 4 times in a row but with the new update I can't do it. I wish we could switch between the new and old version.
I agree one hundred percent. The old version allowed me to review certain parts of a lesson that I felt were weak, or just the entire lesson, but now my options are so limited that it's really demotovating me to go on the app.
This may or may not work .... In a text editor type a line like this. Edit it with the name of the skill you want to redo. Copy the line and paste it over the url in this discussion post. What happened for me is the old course screen popped up and I was able to go back and redo the lesson.
replace ru with your course name and Alphabet-1 with the skill you want to access..
I am a serious learner, and was getting frustrated with repetition of simple lessons just to keep the skills from decaying. This seems a great way for serious learners to keep going, and we all still have the practice button to practice weaker skills. Thank you very much for the update.
Honestly, I agree. While I appreciate that people really liked the decay, I found it kept me in a never-ending abyss of the lower levels. Lol Now that it's gone, I am learning SO much more. If they do bring it back, I hope they tweak whatever algorithm they were using.
How about if we aren’t challenged by the levels that are available to us. What’s the point of continuing to get all the answers correct for things we clearly already know? It would be great if we could unlock more difficult levels by showing proficiency by getting lower levels all correct or texting out and up
Excellent news! Thanks so much. This is so sorely needed in the Hebrew and Greek courses that I'm learning. Great work!
so this is going to be on the website right? sounds totally amazing cannot wait to try it out 2018
A great innovation!
What about all the blatant mistakes in the Irish tree, particularly common towards the end, are they ever going to be fixed I wonder?
Some of them impossible to report. When in tips and notes for example...
Go raibh maith agat for bringing up the question, however it remains to be seen if a fix, when accomplished is worthwhile, considering the nature of Irish in the first place.
Irish, it would seem is a language of dialects with lots of disagreement as to what is right and wrong. If you follow bloggers from Cork it would seem some think that Connacht dialect is the equivalent of Cockney - and vice versa with more informal description abounding on both sides. And then if you listen to RTE Radio na Gaeltachta you find that there are sometimes many Bearlisms sprinkled about. Then there is the question of Ulster dialect.
Keeping true to the wonderful anarchy which is Irish, I'd suppose that the top level will be to know five words for every meaning, five meanings for every word, five spellings for every meaning of every word, five sentence structures for every idea and five contradictions to all of the above.
"Wonderful anarchy which is Irish"...
I think you may be right.
The blatant mistakes may never be fixed !
sounds fabulous. How about some periodic quizzes people could take for lingots, as well.
This sounds like a really amazing development. I can't wait to have the chance to try it out. Thank you, Duolingo!
I love the sound of this! I think it will really help not with just vocabulary, but with forming sentences (with I kind of struggle with right now). One other thing I would absolutely LOVE to see is more options available in the shop! I've already equipped myself with the Idioms and etc., but I would love even more of those things, such as compliments, or sarcasm, etc. But that's just my opinion! This site has helped me so much with my German!
That will help solve a problem that I have when doing a skill over and that is that I remember the rest of the sentence without even reading all the words in the sentence. Does anyone follow what I am saying?
Anyway this is great! I can't wait. Thanks to everyone in Duo.
I study only one language for now, but on three different trees, cause I've grown out of the first ones. I want to be challenged, I need to be tested on the most difficult parts.
I don't mind my strength bars going down (as long as I'm not asked to redo Basics 2 twice in ten days), what's frustrating to me is reviewing the first stages of the course, still be asked to pick the right picture for "Getränk" or "Papier" when I forget many abstract words I'd probably have already memorised, had I have to type them a tad more often. And it doesn't help me very much that the most recently reviewed skills remain golden for weeks, even though I fully know I've got to keep practicing them, only I don't know which to prioritise.
Plus I'm at a point where I prefer the general practice to working on a single skill, except when I know I'm particularly weak at it.
What I like here is the possiblity for a new or casual learner to get a sense of achievement (I've finished my tree :D!), while deep diggers can have a go at the harder content.
What do you think?
Anyway, happy New Year :)
Great news, you know, advancing along the tree is kinda hard for me as new words (in my case: spooky characters) are introduced in each lesson, so I do a lot of "strenghtening" but it's too random and it doesn't increase in difficulty, and redoing the lessons is always predictable. So being able to read/write/listen to increasingly difficult phrases with the material I have already learned (though not always mastered) is a BIG PLUS. Can't wait to get it on chinese on my android device!
Allowing users to master skills in a more in-depth way seems a brilliant way to improve the courses, and I am definitely looking forward to this!
Your engagement levels are dropping because there are almost no features for tracking progress. The screens you have shown provide very little actionable and engaging information. - What does 'level X' mean? - Why should I care? - How much do I need to practice to achieve 'level X+1'? - What words/sentences am I making the most mistakes in? - Why isn't there some kind of global review page? - The 7 day point graph is static - can't track progress for more than 7 days, ridiculous. - It used to at least display points for the past days on hover, not anymore, why? who knows. - I practice daily, but constantly get the same sentences - often multiple times per session. Next day? The system asks me about the same material which encourages rote learning not actual learning.
Do you even have professional linguists on your team or only the devs are responsible for guessing how to design the learning experience? It seems a lot like the latter is more probable.
Duolingo devs add 1 useful feature, remove 2 other good ones and are surprised people leave? Seriously, what did you expect?
Oh, and don't get me started about all the race condition bugs in the practice engine/UI. There are times when I can make 100+ points in under 1 minute without actually doing a single test, the system hangs and adds points like mad - so discouraging.
Looking at the half-full glass, it's free, which it probably wouldn't be with a lot of professional linguists on the payroll. And it's purpose is introductory. The measure of progress is the tree. When you have captured your golden owl, pat yourself on the back, and pick anothr language, or continue your studies with more advanced resources.
Is this going to fully affect us how we learn? Because lets say in Norwegian course, when you do new lesson, and you get a new word, the word in lets say 60% of time is not in its original form( or w/e its called i don't know grammar), but in plural or definite form, thus making it (for me) harder to use it in real sentence.
Yeah, honestly, in Spanish, I find it easier to just learn verb endings and conjugate many verbs than learn individual conjugations of individual verbs.
When you encounter new words in the wild, they will frequently not be in the base form of the word. It's helpful to be able to work back from what you see or hear to the (probable) root of the word.
I've been using and appreciating Duolingo English - Portuguese. I hope you'll consider increasing the type size in the bottom of the page where you offer the message "You are correct" or corrections. It's hard to see the accent markings, the type is SO small!
New Lessons Fix (User Style): https://www.duolingo.com/comment/24634938/Lessons-Userstyle-to-get-some-things-of-the-old-look-back
Staff announcement "A New Look for Lessons on the Website - Duolingo": https://www.duolingo.com/comment/24513744/A-New-Look-for-Lessons-on-the-Website
BTW: You definitely need Camilo's user script "DuoLingo Tree Enhancer" https://www.duolingo.com/comment/19654789/Userscript-Tree-Enhancer to hear the L2 target audio for Portuguese in multiple-choice and right hand side PT translations!
What I found out from andorid vs web version is that these levels on android go from totally easy to hard, but it gets boring completing level 1 over and over again. I get the task to connect the words of same meaning so many times... on web it is already difficult and more interesting.
Personally, I've opted to crown my tree with 2s to start. Then each time I review it again from start to bottom, I crown up again. Otherwise, Basics 1 has 90 lessons I think it was, before I reached 5 crowns. I wanted to switch it up, also give my memory banks time to forget a little bit to improve my memory in the long run. :)
This is sounds like a good idea, but will user's have the option to oppt out? (for example, if I want to re-work the tree and make it all golden- every time I must do harder stuff on skill, and I personally will feel better to master a certain level in all skills before going forward).
Can you implement a 'test out' feature to progress a skill straight to Crown Level 5 if you pass? I feel like by the time I reach 'Ir Future' my 'Basics' isn't level 3, but I don't want to spend the time writing 'el nino bebe leche' a hundred times just to make the skill gold
Please let me know how to turn this crowns system off, and return back to the strengths bars system...
I've been a Duolinguist for all of 18 days now, and I switched to the crowns system yesterday. I think the experience of the new system depends on how we intend to use Duolingo and what we want to get out of the app.
For getting reacquainted with my native tongue (Japanese) after many decades of non-practice, I want to immerse deeply (5 crowns per category) so I will have the foundations of hiragana and basic phrases down before proceeding. It would be a shame to completely forget my original language.
For other languages, I will likely shoot between 3 and 5 crowns for a lesson, depending on how comfortable I feel with learning and retaining the material. Having the option to go back to lessons earlier in the tree--and having the lessons become progressively challenging--seems better suited to my learning goals. Only time will tell.
In words of Omar from The Wire TV show, "It's all in the game, yo."
Unfortunately, I switched to this new crown “update” this morning, still hlf asleep. What absolute bullocks!!! From having a wonderful golden tree, hard-earned in a very difficult language, I get a maximum of three crowns out of five, and a much more sensitive “Health” Btw I have hated the health feature from the very start, how is losing health, and the ability to learn, going to help you learn anything??? Anyway, I hoped to actually learn new stuff. I have tested the so-called update on two out of my ten languages, and guess what?? Not a single new thing in there, not a word. So now I can look forward to months of tedious repetitions again-again. I do not know what you Duolingo guys tested it on ... brain dead rats??? Why must a golden skill translate into two out of five crowns, when there is nothing new?? Supposedly to keep the learners at it? I should think not! I am more lokely than ever to leave. Presently in Wales, where my favourite Duolingo language is spoken, I am going to take myself off to a bookshop and buy a proper book, one that explains everything better, and lets me progress in a way that actually reflects the fact that I have a brain! IS THERE ANY WAY TO SWITCH BACK??????????????????????????? THIS IS AWFULLY FRUSTRATING!
It does seem really odd that 3/5 would be the max number of crowns to start with. They’ve explained the reason for this on another discussion thread, but I don’t find the explanation very compelling. I long ago hit level 25 in French and had been keeping it gold since, and there is just no way that I should have had only 2/5 crowns in a few skills and 3/5 in everything else. I know I’m not alone in that experience.
I have found some new material in the old units, and also some entirely new units, but not containing entirely new material. It’s not as much as I would have thought to accompany such a major structural change. Again, this is the French from English tree. For my Spanish from French tree, I haven’t noticed any new units and I think there is a bit of new material, but I may be misremembering.
For me, the now sudden uselessness of timed practice is very disappointing. I used that frequently to keep my two gold trees gold. Now it’s kind of pointless, except as a personal challenge, I guess.
And I agree that the health feature is disheartening, no pun intended. I don’t personally find it motivational so much as inconvenient. Maybe they did that to encourage people to watch more ads; when we lose a bit of health and are asked if we want to watch an ad to get it back, I bet a lot of people do. The money has to come from somewhere.
I’ve said elsewhere on this thread that I’m not prepared to throw a hissy fit and dump what is in many ways a useful and FREE service because I don’t love these sudden major changes. For one thing, I don’t want to lose my streak! Also, more to the point, I appreciate that the team puts a lot of effort into offering this extensive and ever-growing platform, and I can see that it would be very difficult to appeal both to casual/occasional users and to people who are more committed to language learning. Not sure this is the way to do it, but I personally intend to carry on, and we shall see how it goes.
I don't get it... there's no option to test out of levels anymore? It just says begin now, I don't see an option to try to pass a level. Also, it just lost all of my progress? I had made it about halfway through a couple reverse trees and all of a sudden this crown mode just came up and all the levels show that I have zero progress. What garbage.
New more difficult content is always welcome, but more typing is NOT. It slows you down, it is boring and frustrating which can lead to rushing and hitting the keys harder and causing arthritis, requiring the purchase of a new soft-touch keyboard (own story). The greatest challenge, as I see it, is to recognise what was said in real-time and to respond equally promptly. I would also like to recommend that Duo lessons ask questions that then need to be answered, not just translated. Still love the site, keep up the great work.
I get the concept. But that means there's no room for testing out of a skill, is that right? So in order to move on to the next unlocked skill, you'd have to do 200 sentences because there's no longer the option to test out. And that's frustrating. (FYI, I only read the post and none of the comments, so if this has already been addressed, then sorry for bringing it up again...)
I tested out and started on crowns. A few days ago i accidentally hit the wrong button and it offered to let me test again, so it's still there.
My objective for this weekend was to have a full golden tree and it just changed to this today for me, making everything colored again :(
is it no longer possible to "test-out" of skills under the new system? having the ability to skip sections one was already fluent with saved a lot of tedium!
I've only just seen this thread but thank you so much Duolingo. I along with the majority of people on here really appreciate the hard work you are doing. I am more than happy to pay (and keep paying) for gems as a donation to you for providing us with such an amazing language learning platform. I really hope people in more disadvantaged positions get the same opportunities as I do when it comes to learning languages and you are genuinely helping them with this. Keep up the fantastic work Duolingo team!
The Word Lists are still under the Words menu and I can see them in Google Chrome, but I can't see them in the Android interface. From my experience, not every language has Word Lists though.
Is there anyway to put an account back to the previous system. This update has completely ruined my experience. I wish this could have been something that occurred once i had finished my course because it has completely disrupted my learning.
In the NEW Crown level, the option to view the words you would be learning in each lesson is no longer available, will duolingo be adding this back? It's nice to be able to learn more but I would like to see what words are being used in the training.
This sounds really great but I just tried it and I am extremely frustrated. I had completed my French tree and it was converted to mostly level 2s and some level 1s. For Basics 1, I just worked my way through all of level 2 and half of level 3 and have not found anything really challenging. Mostly, the same three or four easy sentences get repeated in slight variations (Il est rouge, elle est rouge, la pomme est rouge - really???). This is boring, not fun!
The new version has returned me to beginning Portuguese and is requiring many, many lessons to progress. It's a disincentive.
After you finish level 1 in any skill, you can ignore it, if you think you know the material adequately. Forever, if you want.
Please, make it possible to switch back from crown system to previous one in web version at least! And add theoretical part for android application to have it equal in functionality, thanks!
the email came with no explanation. i found this discussion, but it is not helping. the new exercises are so basic to get through. i am now losing interest.
I just takes a little time getting used to it and then you will love it. There is some tediousness at the beginning before it starts to get interesting. Just keep going and you will see! Every challenge is a stepping stone to greater success... Some of the challenges may appear annoying, but don't let those stop you from reaching your goal.
Just got it yesterday and I love it. I found out that I know less than I thought with the old system. Great new challenges. Good job.
Lots of people seem enthusiastic at this, and I certainly don't mean to criticize without having tried.
Still, I can't understand how the old strength levels in each skill have been translated from the old system to the new one. I had taken care to keep all my units at top strength before moving on to new ones - I'm not necessarily saying this is better or worse than anyone else's way, just how it works for me - and now I see that some have a crown with a #3, others with a #2, others yet with a #1, and I have no idea how the numbers were computed.
The "Words" feature reassures me that more than half the words I know are still at top strength, so it's not that I have been slacking.
Could you please offer insight as to how the respective skill levels have been translated, please?
Again, I'm neither questioning nor criticizing, just baffled and curious.
Same here, lots of courses on my French tree where golden, now in the new system all of them are level 2 or 3! Wtf? How are they moved into the new system? Really!
I just read the FAQ that has been published in French, and the general idea is that crown level 4 and 5 comprise exercises that are significantly harder than what we had had so far. Hence, our command of each skill could not be deemed to reach level 4, let alone level 5.
I'll readily admit that this explanation satisfies me.
today is my fist day of the new view. In a nutshell, i can say i hate it. I dont know which skill i should practice more next. Any way to go to the ex-view?
Very bad way for serious learners to learn. In this new system, levels do not decay, which means that after you finish with a subject, the app never makes you go back to practice it. True learning comes from repetition, and one of the most important features of Duolingo was that it keeps track of my weak points, and make me practice them. Somehow, this app always becoming worse, what makes me think about alternatives.
Exactly, this is one of the most important and worst things I’ve seen in this latest update which is really discouraging...
The older version was more useful. The crown vesion has more limitation once you reach the highest level of a set of lessons. In the previous version you could practice all levels within a set of lessons
It does not look like the exercises get harder. They are all the same old exercises again, and again, and again. Oh, and again! And twenty times more until you get them all again, fifty times more, and then you get five crowns in a skill.
Since the crown system came in, I spent way more time in Duolingo. But I am not learning anything new. Okay, now I am "strenghening" the basics. There is a price for the obsession of everything gold.
Side note: sometimes due to connectivity problems whole sessions of boring repeating exercises don't count, and I need to do them all over again.
Well, I hope the system gets fine tuned soon.
I don't know what everybody is complaining about. I was able to test out of all the easy stuff in French. There were 3 opportunities for me to test out. Because of the tests, my crowns went from 80-something to the low 100's in one night. I am working the bottom of the tree now and it is a little harder than before. There is new vocabulary. The sentences are longer. I am okay reviewing subjunctive and conditional. I would say, however, that I consider Duolingo more of a practice tool than a learning tool. I am concentrating on learning French, not gaming. I do like to see my crown count go up, but that is not the point for me.
Well said. Besides the challenge of simply adjusting to change, some complaints are just an attempt to understand the new system. I agree that it seems now to be mostly about practice. I miss the lessons that they used to post to help you actually learn the underlying grammar. I have 100 crowns in Portuguese, but so what! Not sure that it signifies much. What number might actually constitute an accurate measure of fluency. I do like the approach, however, as it forces you to focus on details, and the audio is generally very helpful.
I love the audio exercises because listening comprehension is a tough skill. Duo is a great tool for learning spelling including accents. As for fluency, the Duolingo term was a misnomer and a stretch. There are standard measures for proficiency in European Languages. I have been able to find corresponding tests online for French. The French want to share their language so there are lots of resources online. Unfortunately, the European system does not include Portuguese but the Brazilian Ministry of Education has a test. It would be best of you could find an unofficial test online. If you scroll all the way down on this link you will eventually find info on Portuguese. Good luck!
If you're referring to the "Tips and Notes," you can still see them if you click on the light bulb that sometimes appears on the right side of the liittle thingy that pops up when you click on the course icon.
This happened to me also, BUT it does not take too long to bring the tree back to completion on level 1. I am almost done with level 2 now while working on three other trees simultaneously. The new tree has substantial improvements and some of the new units are quite entertaining, especially the one about the animals. The repetition of doing the exercises helps to "cement" the vocabulary and the grammar into memory and they don't take much time when you're fluent. You are only limited by the speed of your ability to type.
I hate it. You cannot redo any given lesson or level once completed. I don't want to be forced to move forward. I want to be able to repeat the sections if I feel the need.
And it is not clear any more what is being learned in any particular lesson, so it’s hard to know whether one is ready to move on or not.
We’ve lost a lot of learner autonomy, which is dispiriting (and demotivating).
Don't fret. I think you will see the basic stuff again. There is a lot of built in repetition in Duolingo.
This sounds like an amazing way to balance the needs of casual learners and more serious learners. Looking forward to it!
So excited to try this when it comes to the web! My motivation has been lacking recently, but I think that this will help me get back into it! Thank you!!
Stand firm Scarlett_Lucian, 元気出してね! (This expression in japonese means something like "Cheer up") ツ
Yes. I really miss the activity feed, which was a major social component for me, so it's nice to have something new to look forward to.
When the activity feed left, so did all of my interest in Duolingo. I used be able to have “:conversations” with Latin Americans. Now—nada.
I must say, that it sounded a bit better than it is after the update, because we've lost functionality like a feedback when we should practice again and the option to test out of individual lessons.
Still, I have confidence, that the Duolingo staff will make something really good out of it.
I would love it if the lost functionality could be added back in in some form, that's why I've created this comment: "Suggestion: How everyone would love the Crowns :)" https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26860873
Still, do you have any suggestion for where I can practice French interactively with real people? At the moment the only think I have is Twitter.
HiNative is really good for that. You can help people with English and get help with French from native speakers (ex. you can record audio in French and people can critique your pronunciation, or you can type out a passage and people can tell you how to make it sound more natural). I've also met friends there and we'll talk on Instagram or Snapchat. Also, Penpal World is awesome. You can meet a bunch of people your age who live in France/ speak French. :)
Tandem is a great app for this. You can chat, call and videochat with people who speak your target language. It has a great correction feature in the chat, which makes it easier to learn from your mistakes without the conversation having to be interrupted and it's very easy to find people to talk to.
Try DuoLingo Events (under Labs in the web browser version). If there isn't an event in your town, organize one.
me to. be nice to practice with real people not robots or whatever they use. also i think you have a typo
My Language Exchange is brilliant for linking casual/more serious learners. You agree to help each other. There might be a small fee to pay to make initial contact - it depends on who is available , wanting to help you in return for you helping them in your language. You'll understand when you look at the site. Have fun!
Wow what a load of languages I’m impressed! LazyEinstien
But does High Valyrian really count? I would take that one out, which puts him down to a mere 29 languages!!
Merely completing a Duolingo course is thousands of hours away from knowing a language.
Edit: The person above me said that they didn't believe the OP knows 15 languages and they based it on the fact that he has 15 languages on Duolingo, hence I said that finishing a Duolingo course is nowhere near knowing a language, not that it doesn't help. The comment below mine is absolutely irrelevant.
how do you remember all of the different ones and which words go with which language? confusing!!
Do as many reverse trees as you can, e.g., with English, French and Italian, you learn French and Italian from English. After that, you learn English and Italian from French. And finally, you Learn English and French from Italian. Add another language and the number of combinations increases accordingly. This will teach you to easily recognize the differences between the various languages.
There used to be a feature called immersion that made it much easier to level up fast. You got points by translating successfully and you could get quite a few once you leveled up a bit. That said, LongHenry has been around for ages. I am sure it's legit. I would also say it definitely takes more than 200 days at an hour a day to get to 25. As you level up, the levels require more and more points, so it takes a really solid effort and a lot of time to get to 25 without immersion, which LongHenry clearly has, as it was only available for the original few Duo languages: Spanish, English, Portuguese, French, Italian and German.
Agreed I do about an hour a day now. at one time I did closer to 2 aday. I just hit 20 . it takes TOO LONG to level up after about 16 or 18 IMO. That said my 213 day streak could possibly fall in the next month as I will be doing some traveling. :(
Personally, I think how long it takes to level up past a certain point kind of stresses how impressive somebody who has gotten to that level really is.
You know, provided people can think in a more logarithmic style of number based increments. Much like how "Cent" work in musical intervals--something I think we can all agree is a common enough knowledge base that we can all follow where I am going with this. Since we all know about that 440hz noise...
Oh wait... maybe I could just acknowledge the level system might not be entirely straight forward, until you've done a bit of work with the language.
I checked LongHentry's data. Their language badge levels legit from what I can tell with my mod console. :)
Level 25 is 25000 points. 100 points a day for 250 days = level 25. You can do a timed practice set of 18-20 questions in ~3-4 minutes. You do 5-6 of those and you're looking at a halfish hour to earn 100 points in your target language.
At least, that's how I earned my level 25's
Witch of all you learn now you really speak? I do Spanish for a while but no word comes out of me in real life.
In order to learn a language. you actually have to speak it. There are many websites where you can partner with people who speak Spanish natively and want to learn your native language using Skype or a similar app.
I agree, I've been practicing my spanish but retention is difficult without a native speaker to practice with.
You could do some work on your listening skills.
Listening is half the part of any future conservation. - it is very difficult and especially in the beginning., but you has to be able to listen and understand what have been said, before you can come up with any kind of answer, so i suggest that you start right now - the earlier the better.
In the beginning it would seem as there are lot of sounds ( phonemes ) that have no meaning - it feels like one big mess of sounds - and it seems that there - after several weeks of listening - are no real progress in the listening skills.
There is progress, and that will be your so called silent period - the period before you naturally would begin to speak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_period
If you continue to listen - for me it was about 4 weeks - you would notice that you can recognize every word you had learned, but only one word out of a lot of phonemes before and after the word.
About a month later I could recognise 2 consecutive words I knew, without any kind of effort. Any new word I learned was then recognised - not so easily in the start - recognise the word when it was being said.
I guess that if you - unlike me - haven't learned any non-native (L2) language(s) before - it could take much longer time, because you brain never has done that before.
I used and is still using LOS 40 to listen to Spanish speech / music. First it was the Anda Ya early morning program, and later their Latín channel.
To listen to LOS 40 en directo (=live) do:
- Go to http://los40.com/
- Find and click on ESCUCHAR RADIO
- Choose what you want to listen, where Anda Ya en vídeo of course is watch and listening.
I have listened to Spanish radio for 1 year and 5 months, and now I can - most of the time - figure out what a unknown short word should be spelled.
I guess that my ability to spell an unknown word will come as I am expanding my vocabulary.
You can read about my first Spanish conversation here:
My first real life conversation in Spanish: Speaking with a costumer at work, a retail store
Nice. That gives me some hope. I finished my Swedish tree quite a while ago and have now also done most of Babbel's Swedish lessons.
I feel I am no longer doing much progress, but have started to listen a lot to Swedish radio station P1 and my listening experience so far closely matches what you described.
That is a great suggestion and adding a movie or two helps a great deal with my understanding I watch an english version and follow with spanish what I learned on duolingo doesnt help very much but the words start to be recognisable a great listening and interpreting treat is "manu chau" good fun and "the gotten project " a worthwhile musical experience if you like avante garde tango/ jazz/ flamenco too but a few others too Laa cucuracha is also a lot of fun to learn from and there too is some history involved I have over over 469 day streak 170000 xps and and at 567 crowns but not at all well equiped to have a real life conversation despite the fact that am all golden but I keep going I spite of all the frustrations I am at present experiencing since my app changed to crowns level up.. I would like to mention a dual language anthology poesia hispano americana edited and translated by Seymour Resnick a dover publication inc which was intially my motivation to learn spanish it is a good selection of finest spanish poetry with literal english translations on the facing page and a joy to read. Those wanting to learn the language will find material here to hone the skills and lovers of poetry will enjoy the richness in both english and spanish and at the price it is a steal and there is nothing quite like a book in hand
It takes a bit. but find someone who speaks and is willing to go slow in simple conversation. Once you get started it builds on itself with each attempt.
I've only just started learning. I wonder when it is feasible to expect I can start to try to have conversations?
It depends on how much time you put in on Duo and elsewhere, check out online TV and Youtube for foreign films and music with double subtitles to become familiar with the various accents in your chosen language. You can also follow a few people and compete with them on your leaderboard. I recently started doing that and have managed to push my workload up from 50 to 400 XP a day. Good Luck.
I do believe that will take ages and for an some even an eternity eternity and I am not being pessimistic or to trying blow your bubble I am simply saying that 2 of my friends are completely bilingual having lived in spain for much less time than I have spent learning on duolingo so the assumption is > being there amongst hispano hablantes is probably the best way of learning and if that is not possible hook up someone on whatspp which gives you the option to write listen and reply which I do with a spanish speaker learning english magically benifical to both of us.
Eh, before the skill level part is added, I would suggest that Duolingo is more a stepping point to start with before you have conversations with people in said language or consume media in said language.
This will likely change once the skill level part is on there... but...
The course ware--in its current state--is a quick and dirty starting guide that people will DEFINITELY need to go further from... but an AWESOME start to going further.
I'm not far enough in any of my courses here to know enough to do much for practical practice yet--and well... that appears to be one of the issues with Duolingo. You need to practically finish the courses here to do that part of learning.
(Paragraph added for reasons of Tetraphobia) So just gonna use this to further the hype-train on skill levels! Hurrah!
You need to practically finish the courses here to do that part of learning.
No, you don't! :) You can start to talk to people even when you have barely any knowledge of the language. In fact, in some languages it's practically vital. I don't know if I would ever have finished the Hebrew tree if I hadn't found some teachers/exchange partners. It is haaaaard to have a conversation in a language you don't know much of, but it is incredibly beneficial. I'd suggest that starting to have conversations and forcing yourself to get practical practice even when you don't have much ability in the language is actually a great way to give your learning an enormous boost.
(I learned the beginnings of the past tense in Hebrew from exchange partners way before I got to it on the tree, for example.)
@LeonardoLes_Paul, Would you mind to share your experience of using Duolingo and how to get the most out of it? Or if you've described it already, maybe you'd share a link?
WOW! I have to say that it is amazing that you are learning so many languages. Congrats!
Ppl like that demotivate me. How am I going to be come a competent translator if people can learn this much languages!?!
This is the metaphor I would use to explain this stuff: have you ever competed in a sports event of sorts?
Well, one of the things you learn is that the people who get into the top ten, top twenty-five, top fifty, top one hundred--hell for some events, top five hundred are still EXTREMELY competent at doing their job.
Did a handegg team not get into the Superbowl? That does not mean they are still not very good at playing handegg. Did the Edmonton Oilers not win the Stanley Cup again this year? Well, their players are still skilled enough, that they will be traded to teams with more money for the next season to ensure they stay the Professional Farm Team of the NHL
Point is... just because you are not the very best--like no one ever was--does not mean you are on par with people who have no skill.
Just keep working at it, and doing your own pace with it. The fact you are making an effort already puts you beyond the people not actually trying.
Just by making a constant effort--sure you might not be the number one champion... but you will still be damned good--and worth people paying you obscene amounts of money.
Disclaimer as punchline: My favourite teams are the Edmonton Meat Eaters (well, they use an Inuit term for that--but I just like calling my handegg team "Meat Eaters") and the Edmonton Oilers. This attitude might be sour grapes.
Meu amigo! Vi que você é brasileiro ou português pelo Salmos que você colocou. Só tenho a dizer: PARABÉNS!!! Você consegue conversar tranquilamente nesses idiomas? :)
Huh? There is so much confusion on this site. I speak Engish and French. I'm studying Italian. Only 3; not 30. Where did that come from?
I have discovered that no matter my current skill levels, I benefit from listening as much as possible. Libraries, bookstores, and the appstores have movies in other languages, too. You might even find pamphlets in other languages. Dictionaries, children’s books, and Websites like Omniglot are very useful. Using the Duolingo website is better than the app for many languages.
Although, I did not understand if the old rankings in Duolingo, I know now that repetition always works. And now, in 2018, I am happy to see the skill levels are being revised to give us more complicated lessons.
Keep in mind that the rate of lesson development and improvement depends on volunteer creators. Spanish leads with many active contributors, and newer submissions like Korean for English speakers with a new set of contributor will need our feedback/comments, including encouraging these teams.
i repeat: the rankings are great fun to see, but real measure is to redo lessons and have more success each time.
As for speaking a language, you may be surprised by the feedback you receive when you try one word or phrase with someone from another country.
I agree. This is a great way to help both casual and serious learners, so the chances of students giving up would be much lower and students can enjoy learning a new language.
Once you get to a certain level, does your crown level ever go down, or does it stay the same forever?
As things stand now, your crown level stays the same indefinitely. There have been rumblings about re-incorporating spaced repetition into the tree in some form, so at some point that might change.
Sounds great! A few questions:
- What level will those people who have completed the tree get for their skills when this feature rolls out?
- When you 'strengthen' a skill, can the skill be made golden if you are strengthening on, say, only a Level 2 tier? Will the questions when strengthening come from Level 2 or the highest itself?
- Wouldn't it get awfully repetitive and boring to reach the highest tier? How hard/long will it take to go to the next level?
- I hope you are introducing all thew new words on the first level. Only the difficulty of questions should increase by level, so that the casual learners aren't missing out. But again, this could contradict the main objective of adding new content.
- Is there any XP gain involved when reaching new levels?
Also, will this mean longer wait-time for the incubator courses to hatch and graduate from Beta?
I've just been trying it out and it was repetitive for the early lessons. I've gone through German Basics 2 and for level 3 and 4 I am getting the same sentences. It isn't harder, it plateaued. Maybe those early lessons can't get hard because they are beginning lessons.
I love it for my Spanish, but it doesn't do it for my French and Japanese. It. would be great if it was for all languages. But overall, I love it. It increases memory and is very engaging. A big thumbs up from me! ❤️
This sounds amazing!!! The only problem is we have to wait a little while.
Is there any way to sign up for beta-tests, or do you roll it out to random users? I'd be happy to try it out, as well as any other new features you might be working on :)
How do I continue down the tree? I only have three button lit up and can't work out how to light up more so I can move on with new things to practise.
To unlock a new row of skills (icons), you must complete ALL the lessons in ALL the skills of the row you are currently on. Make sure you have, in fact, done that.
Thank you for everything you are doing on Duolingo it is really amazing. :)
Could I bother you to have a look at discussion: (https://www.duolingo.com/comment/25616210 ) And tell us your opinion / up-vote it if you agree ?
Idea is about giving users more information regarding statistics :) Thank you for your time
Sometimes this place feels like the UN with all the pinche flags. Some people are really amazing.
When will this be properly added? I think this is great and want to try it.
This sounds so awesome! Keep up the hard work, I can't wait for it to come out on the website! Looking forward to it :)
Very cool! I hope they release this on the PC version of Duolingo soon.
I love this improvement. I have currently changed my minor to Spanish at my university to complement my BS/MS degrees. I welcome any and all improvements on this very enjoyable website.
Oh! This explains why my wife's UI is different than mine -- she just started with the app and started seeing crowns and levels, while everyone else in the family sees it differently! haha
Spitze!!! Ich freue mich schon riesig auf diese Moeglichkeit aeltere, abgeschlossene Sprachbaeume nochmal aufs neue zu entdecken...
In letzter Zeit kommen ja generell viele tolle neue Ideen - bin begeistert von den Geschichten im Labs-Modus und auch von den neuen Podcasts!!!
Weiter so Duolingo und VIIIIIIIEEEEEELEN DANK!!!
And as I wrote the above in German - a short summary in English: Thank you Duolingo for keeping up doing GREAT THINGS!!!
Sounds great! jut wondering when it will come to browser and iOS. No pressure, just wondering!
Cool! I would also suggest something like mapmyride app does, for example, I would like to have all the history of my progress through this 4 years that I have been learning with Duolingo. I would like to see what were the months I stopped studying, or what were the months that I really performed well. The addition of more real life words, in particular fields of expertise as optional for the user would be also great. A coloured code for Der, Das, Die, Die(plural) would also be nice. For exemplo a green dog, a red cat, a blue child or girl. purple or some other collour for plurals. Anyway guys, thank you so much for DuoLingo.
A few questions on TinyCards in relation to these improvements: 1. Will the cards be updated to reflect the additional skill levels? 2. When will the Duolingo progress be linked to the cards? I have given up trying to keep the cards golden as they stay golden for such a short time. 3. Will other language courses be added including the reverse courses not based on English? 4. Will Duolingo XP points be given for progress as they are with the new Stories (which I am loving).? 5. And finally, can 'turn off typing' be part of the settings rather than having to be chosen each time? I have given up typing answers as it takes too long and is rather fussy.
That's just awesome! I can't wait for these changes. I always recommend everyone to use Duolingo, and I tell them that it is not the ultimate learning tool, but definitely one of the best apps to help learning and get vocabulary.
This new option is going to increase the efficiency substantially. Thank you so much for this new feature :p
Wow. I've been hoping for something like this for several years. Duolingo is a great tool, but I always felt like it stopped being useful much earlier than necessary. It sounds like it will not be much more valuable for more advanced learners.
I seriously can’t wait to try this. Duolingo is already amazing, and just keeps getting better. It’s renewed my interest in languages and language learning. What a great company. What a great app!
Ok I want it. Yes please! More typing into target language is what I want. It sounds great and I'm looking forward to it.
Will this be available also on the web based application? You already have nice features on the Android that are not available on the web application and it creates painful choices for me. It is much easier to type and work on the web based application when I am at my desk. But sometimes, even at my desk, I use the damn Android and am forced to type on it because of features only available on it. Right now I am thinking of the "Weakest words" to work on. I use this all the time when I want to review as I hope you know better than I what I need. It is not available on the web application. There are undoubtedly more things like this. Please give some attention to the web application, not just the Android.
It is coming! All major platforms (Andoid, iOS, web), they said :) Expect it in a few months time if all goes according to plan: can't wait myself :)
Amazing! That's exactly why I left Duolingo: because I was rushing the tree! Thank God I realized that So I came back again. Awesome idea!
Thank you very much for your fabulous effort exerted only to help us learn more languages . Million Thanks
looking forward to it. I am enjoying duolingo but gradually moving forward more slowly as difficulty increases. The short stories are a welcome addition and I am finding them fantastic.
this looks exciting, thanks, I'm looking forward to it! Enjoying these new badges too, more motivation to work at it!
What I also miss on duolingo is to be able to mark things (especially words) which I feel I have learned well enough already, so that they stop appearing in my "strengthen" sessions, making way for new ones instead. How can I progress vocabulary-wise if after completing 20 such skill strengthening sessions my word count goes up by just 1 single word? Being able to move to next complexity level would be extremely welcome, but being able to set my own path and pace through it would be even better.
I'm on Android, but I can't wait for this to officially be released. I think it would be great for my German skills, plus as I begin Japanese.
Wanna try this. Can you enable it for me? Please! Or tell me how to turn it by myself...
This idea of skill levels does sound great. Unfortunately, I must not be one of the test accounts since my Android device doesn't show anything like this. But I would love to be on the list to help with testing it out.
I got the crowns yesterday in the evening and so far I like it.
One suggestion though: My polish tree was fully golden before I got the crowns. Now with the crowns it looks colored as if I had just started to learn polish. And it is difficult to see which skills have the fewest number of crowns so that I could continue to learn there. What if skills with the same number of crowns would have the same color? E.g. skills with 5 crowns are golden (as it is now), skills with 4 crowns are silver etc. This would make it more obvious where it is best to continue with learning and would also be more motivating because the progress would be more visible.
I had completed the Italian tree, and when I was cut over to crowns, I had 1 crown in each skill. Every skill was also "Completed 0/N", where N was the number of lessons in the next level.. Did you have some skills with more than one crown when you were cut over?
Ah, good, thanks! I'm encouraged that the transition has recognized various experience levels by skill. Yes, I'm Level 16, and only completed the tree 3 weeks ago, so I must be getting the basic level of recognition of that with 1 crown in each skill. I thought everyone started at that, but I guess it must start at zero for a new course.
Thinking further about your suggestion to have different colours for different numbers of crowns, a more flexible solution would be to have a sort feature for the skills. The skills are always presented in course order. However, if you could sort by number of crowns, then this would provide the visibility of the skills that you want to work on. Alphabetical sort order of skills might also be useful. In the pre-crown world, I used to skim through the tree to look for non-gold skills to strengthen, but again, a sort by gold/non-gold skills would have made it much easier.
The progress info at https://duolingo.eu/GrahamWarr/progress/ prompted me think of this, as the skills there are presented by current strength. It actually shows the 100% and non-100% skills sorted, so it's easy to see which ones need strengthening. You can't sort the skill list there, but it happens to be in an order that's useful for me. The info there also gives the date when the skill was first completed. Although you can't sort on it, if you could, it would give the course order for me because I worked through the tree from top to bottom.
There is something to this suggestion. I miss the ability to return to a previously completed lesson to confirm spelling or usage. Only going forward does at some point accomplish this, but it is not at my direction. In other words the learning I need doesn't happen when it is on the "top of my mind" - when it is important to me. This is very frustrating.
I've just pushed 2 of my Italian skills to Level 5. So far, my experience is not that the lessons at higher levels got harder, they simply got more repetitive. Also, the number of lessons required to move through the 5 levels seems to be N, N, 2N, 3N and 5N, for a total of 12N lessons, where N is the number of lessons to get to Level 1. I thought that I'd worked pretty hard over 60 days to complete all 405 lessons in the course, and was planning to ease off somewhat, doing just strengthening exercises on weaker skills. However, if the lesson algorithm above is correct, then it seems that I'm now facing completing 4950 lessons to get to Level 5 in all 66 skills. I'm feeling tired at the thought of it!
That’s similar to my experience. Those of us who liked to keep our trees gold are now going to have to put in a lot of effort to get them back to gold. And I find that it’s taking more time to get the same # of points per day that I had been getting. I had worked it out at the beginning of the year that if I did an average of 56 XP per day in Spanish, 5 days/week, I could hit level 25 before the end of the year. (Doing other languages the other 2 days/week.) This would be fine if the new material + process combo was going to help me learn better and retain more, proportionate to the effort needed. Not sure that is going to be the case. As you say, it is super repetitive and although some of it is helpful and I could use the repetition, a lot of it frankly is not.
This obviously is an early assessment and I’m not ready to bail yet. I don’t intend to give up my 3-year streak just because I’m feeling grumpy about unexpected changes on a FREE and overall helpful service, but I may redistribute some of my time elsewhere if these changes aren't worth putting in the extra effort.
Yes. I may be making a mistake by returning to skill number one to make my skills gold again. This is just tedious. Perhaps I should be jumping in somewhere in the middle of the tree where the repetition would be of more value. I too am not sure these changes are worth the SUBSTANTIAL extra effort. Perhaps I need a tutorial on how to optimize my use of the new system. I have very limited time available for my language building. Like you, I am unwilling to bail at this point, but I am affected by the law of diminishing returns.
I am jumping into the middle of the tree for strengthening and doing a lesson or two of four or five different units each day, vs starting at basics 1 and working downward. My rationale is that one doesn’t use language in real life the way the tree is structured (“all adjectives, all the time today! And tomorrow, etc.”) so I’m trying to be a bit more “natural” about it. But still - I’m not going to be willing or able to put in 5x my previously planned amount of time, every day, so it’s just going to be a slog.
The strengthening button does not give credit for any progress toward increasing crown levels. Used to be I would use it to re-gild anything that had deteriorated from gold back to blue (red, green). Now it's just XP, basically.
Yes! I imagine this system does improve the usage metrics (which was a stated objective of the authors, whose work I really do appreciate). That said, to make lesson one gold took me two very frustrating days entering repetitive answers that I had mastered a long time ago. The only new learning I gained was some additional familiarity with the Cyrillic character positioning on my keyboard. My xp score however is "going through the roof."
I love the new Skill Level feature! I kept redoing the old version (just to stay in practice) but was bored. This new feature has reignited my love with Duolingo!
You continue to receive comments as more users have experience of working with the Crowns feature.
Many suggestions have been made and others have expressed concerns. I suggest an update from yourself is long overdue so that users know more on your current thinking.
I am running both systems on Android with different user names and I am thinking that at present I prefer the old system rather than the new.
Does this mean you know how to access the old system? I would like to get back to it.
I think that there should be like a more compressed Feature to the skill level concept. As seen on the Screenshots, doing a skill 40 times is a little too time consuming. I think that the repition, variating on the skill, should be lengthened, but, the amount of times you should repeat the skill you should lowered.
I hate this change. I want to switch back to the way it was. Figure out how to make it so I can switch back!
Agreed with this. The previous way was much simpler to know my deficiencies per stage. I'd rather have it how it was.
This popped up just as I was midway through working several lessons I needed to strengthen. Suddenly couldn't work out what I had left to do, so I didn't much appreciate that.
But having said that, this looks good! Also I like that the tips are readily available on a button on the pop up so you can quickly look at them.
But you sent me right back to zero and using the old methodology in OS. I liked it the way that it was and this new one makes me go back to square one, whereas your previous system did test me back and they were harder the longer I stayed on.
Sometimes it is better to branch out rather than moving everyone back. But what do I know, I have only been a marketer for 30 years and launched a business worth $100M.
You have a great tool and I have been at it straight for 2 years. This upsets me with no internal notice on the app that this is about to change!
I asked this question when I got put in the newest A/B. got no answer ... hope to get some this time as crowns raise it again for me: my theory is that you guys have a system that considers golden badges to be a mark of progress. so when half my gold went away went back to the top and worked my way down. just about got caught up, and now this very similar event.
I am NOT complaining about the gold evanescence. I would like to know if the best learning experience is to go back to the top, and flip the colors again, or if not , what?
I am a pretty happy camper, but a little direction would be a help
If you can get correct answers all the way through and it is EASY,i in other words you can do it quickly and you know that you know it, don't worry about gold. If you find yourself searching for words, spelling etc and are NOT using hints, then do it again until you know that you know it.
My thought exactly. I like starting at basic if you will. I can fly thru the easy but the typical things I struggle with I get wrong and can redo and I see it solidifying already and I just started the crowns today. Likewise I think I will use the Greg hullander (name) approach and not rush thru but keep things solid gold from top and not move forward until that is achieved. it may take another 301 days but I will learn!!!
I LOVE the new skill levels! It is much more engaging, although at first it's a little discouraging to have all your gold gone and back to full colored icons ; )
Hi :) I love the new design and everything, but I just wanted to ask, if there is any highest skill level that I can reach. Or will I just continue to infinity? Thank you very much. Carol
AFAIK, it’s not possible! This is one of the bad aspects about this new system.
Actually I discovered a way to do this, well at least through Browser on Desktop:
When you click the button for any course Duo brings to a unit of that topic. Your browser URL will show something like this:
Simply take out /3 (or whatever number you are given)
and you will go back to something similar to old page. If the unit of the topic is active you can repeat that unit. You can even test out of the topic by using the upper right button or appending /test to the URL:
So, all this seems to be presenting pretty much the same what we had in a different way. Previously each unit had its own individual strength bar. So, you make one pass until all units are at 1 bar at least and then again until all units are 2 bars etc. But going directly to the page using the URL above you can strengthen your own chosen unit (if it is not blocked by the system). What is new is that you now do more typing style exercises if you have advanced enough.
Note: The URL I've posted is from the last topic of English from Spanish course. I imagine it is similar for others.
Note2: Test out does not seem to work correctly even if you have finished it all without losing hearths.
I don't like crowns at all! They are seriously causing me to loose interest and I am thinking of quitting and abandoning my 663 day streak and 2195 lingots. I hate to quit now but that is how much I dislike the change.
Grammar Notes? Did you see that little light bulb in the lower right hand corner of the pop-up menu for the lesson? That's where you find the former Tips and Notes, and perhaps they are even better than ever.
It doesn't work in the app, isn't available. I didn't even know there was notes until skill 5, level 4
There's a roundabout on that- go to the browser and use this link (other users can do the same- just change the name). You can see the grammar notes of each skill when pressing the three dots next to it (link might not work if you haven't finished the tree or have under XP of points) : https://www.duolingo.eu/TeribleTeri/progress
You can also:
- go to the "Words" page (not sure of the English wording, I use the French version),
- sort the list by ascending strength so you get the weakest words first,
- select one word, your choice,
- the sidebar on the right displays information about that word: translation, strength... and skill in which it features,
- click the name of the skill.
You'll get to the page that starts reinforcing the skill.
After trying it out right now, however, it doesn't seem to strengthen the skill the way it did before the change.
(Also, there's never been any guarantee that the word you selected in the first place will be in a question, so it's entirely possible that it will remain weak afterwards.)
Dev team, any comments about that?
This may or may not work .... In a text editor type a line like this. Edit it with the name of the skill you want to redo. Copy the line and paste it over the url in this discussion post. What happened for me is the old course screen popped up and I was able to go back and redo the lesson.
just replace ru with your language and Alphabet-1 with the skill you want to revisit.
Already really missing being able to select which lesson I want to do or revisit, especially when I've completed a lesson but don't feel confidant with the specific content covered. I've was really enjoying/relying on the ability to repeat lessons until I felt like I had a better handle on what was covered before continuing, but now im being forced to (what feels like) skip ahead to the next lesson. Is there any chance of this feature returning? It feels like I'm being rushed forward.
I lost all my golden skills I earned after one year of playing and have to start over almost entirely.. where's my progress?
You still have the same amount of knowledge and now you have the golden opportunity to add more to it... The number of crowns reflects your mastery. Set yourself the goal to acquire a certain number of crowns per day and some day you should again have a golden tree.
Your progress is being displayed differently than it used to be. It is not gone.
Sorry, but I'm giving up Duolingo. This change makes impossible to choose what to learn. I can't even make notes anymore. And yep, I could only learn with making notes by hand. Moreover this app was just perfect for a dictionary. When abroad just looked up the necessary topic, and tada, there was everything. Thanks for the downgrade.
I must admit I was a little shocked to see everything changed without warning... I received none! But its OK. The chunks, at least initially, are smaller/ quicker and after all it is all about learning...
This change was announced in the forums several months ago. In the comment at the top of this discussion, in fact.
How many skill levels are there? I have just hit level 4 in a couple and I wanted to know if this is unending, or I have an end to work towards.
under the previous system, we could revise the skills that lost their all-gold colour. Problem was that the sentences were repetitive and did not cover the entire skill content. Under current system, however, one is required to redo the entire skill, which often comprises as many as 16 lessons! This is boring, off putting and demotivating. It is also not clear what the numbers 1, 2 and 3 mean. If 1 is the weakest and 3 is the strongest, one still has to repeat them all anyway. It gets even more cumbersome when someone is trying to revise many languages instead of just one. I don't see this as an improvement, in fact I find that it makes me practice less than before.
If it would have been done right, I suppose I'd like the change, but it's confusing and I can't see where I need to work. And where are the grammar notes? This added to the countless ads now donning the app, makes me think it's a sell-out. I hope I won't have to uninstall and end my long relationship with Duo. :-(
Click on the light bulb icon that sometimes appears when you open a skill to see the tips and notes.
Can I test out of a skill level? So far the new design has me at low crown levels and it's tedious to do 16 rounds of stuff I know well in hopes that the next level will challenge me. I am also getting repeats within the same practice of questions. Sometimes the same thing twice in a row before moving on to the next question. And there are other glitches. For instance when word choices end up covering the sentence to be translated. I agree with those who say it now looks like a game for nursery school. I could live with that if I could get beyond the language elements I already know. I've probably done the old tree 12-15 times since I first finished it in August. So far I haven't encountered the new stuff that's supposed to deepen my knowledge and challenge me. Still learning more from the reverse tree.
The only problem I have with this is that after finishing the learning tree, I like to keep all my skills golden. Now with crowns, I’m going back over the old lessons to reach the max level in each. There should be a way to ‘test out’ older skills as, in order to get to level 5 in basics, I’ve had to answer ‘I eat apples’ a million times!
Keep the tree balanced. Finish everything at level 1, then go back to the top and complete all units at level 2, and then do the same for level 3. I found that this approach does not bring the monotony of doing the same exercises endlessly. Perhaps, Duo can serve up more variety at the top of the tree if it knows that you have gone to the bottom of it. But that is only a guess on my part.
Initially I did exactly what you described as your mind numbing experience. I brought Basics 1 up to 5 crowns, and then I repeated it for another unit, but it got old very quickly. The experience taught me not to do this again.
I am delighted that harder exercises have been added. My usage had declined because I thought Duolingo was too easy and the vocabulary was too limited. I am joying Duolingo again because of the refreshing new content.
That's encouraging that you've seen harder exercises in French, as many of us haven't seen increased difficulty in our languages (Italian in my case). Has the number of Skills also increased? I see that you're starting Italian too, so I'd be interested to hear if you find harder exercises at higher levels there. I suspect that Duolingo has started adding harder exercises to the more popular languages first, whilst the others have only been populated with repeat exercises at the moment.
I counted 18 new units, but some of the older units were also reconfigured. The new tree is more difficult to start out with and you will probably be disappointed by the number of crowns you receive for your past work when you switch over. But don't be discouraged. If you are really good at it you can catch up very fast and earn a lot of crowns quickly. I also found that it is best to keep the tree well balanced, i.e., complete the tree at level 1, then do the same for all units at level 2, and so on.
I think that is a great idea. I am almost finished with with all level 1 crowns and will soon begin the tree again and complete all level 2 crowns.
There are more skills in the tree but the biggest improvement are the stories. The stories are entertaining and instructive. Not only that they have a very conversational audio component. Actually, I would call them dialogues, not stories. (I should figure out to remove Italian from my profile. I decided to dedicate my time to French in order to really advance. I want to be proficient in one foreign language not a beginner in 2.) Based on these improvements, I would say Duolingo is a work in progress and there is more to come.
I have two problems with the new "Crowns" system, at least on the mobile app.
1- There seems to be no way to repeat lessons, either from the current level or a previous level. For example, I was placed in Level 3 of Object Pronouns, but really need to review at least the lessons from Level 2. Currently Level 3 is totally confusing.
==> Please provide a way to repeat earlier lessons from any level. At least for me, this is vital for learning. 2- Running out of health and being stopped and asked to spend "gems" (ie $) is very annoying. Duolingo, please: I will look at the ads, but I will NEVER spend money to buy gems. If you keep up this type of BS, I will be looking for another more friendly app.
I so agree. I’m trying to learn Hangeul and Hiragana before a trip to Korea and Japan, and really need to be able to repeat the early lessons to embed all of them.
I think the votes are in and most users don't love this change you are super excited about. Thanks for trying. Now revert please. We promise not to think less of you if you do!
Yes, the votes are in, but I think not the ones you think.
I don't think they look at comments on the web forum at all when they make decisions; that's a self-selected minority and not necessarily representative of the entire user base.
Have a look again at the post at the beginning:
Whenever we tried to add harder content in order to teach better, our engagement metrics would go down. Learners would get discouraged and leave the app. […]
We’ve been quietly testing this with new learners on Android, and the results have been awesome. Students are doing more sessions, sticking around for longer, and doing harder types of exercises.
That's the sort of "votes" that I think they care about -- measurable differences in how users use the app (and the website), not what a comparatively small group of people says.
And the votes that count say "Keep going!" and not "Revert please!" You appear to be in the minority.
But if you "got discouraged and left the app" or "did fewer sessions and stuck around for less time", you could make your voice heard in an area that their metrics can count.
How can I repeat a skill level (go down one or two? I took a year break and want to re-take some.
I haven’t found a way to do this.
Two excellent features of the old system seem to have been lost in the new one: firstly, having a short list of the new words to be learned in each lesson, and secondly, having the opportunity to repeat a lesson if one wished.
Under the new system it is As though one is heading down a blind one-way tunnel.
I don’t care whether there are crowns or different numbers of levels, but the loss of information about what one is about to learn, and of learner autonomy, is unhelpful.
You can do this to bring up the old style interface but there are a couple of gotchas. 1. You need to know exactly what the name of the lesson is and it is often not what is displayed. 2. From what I can see, it locks out later lessons, but with a little finagling I can get to the lesson I want to repeat.
from this discussion page replace the URL with... https://www.duolingo.com/skill/ru/Alphabet-1 replacing ru with the abbreviation for your language, and Alphabet-1 with the name of the lesson you want to revisit.
To bring up tips and notes edit the url to remove the last number. you should get a vocabulary list.
Good luck. They are making changes to the discussion forums too which may break some of these tricks.
I have a light bulb for Tips and Notes in my French tree. I find I don't need do-overs, because I have to do a lot of do-overs when I get the same sentence wrong 5 times.
You are right! I used to take the same "lessons" again when I felt that I do not know it well enough. For those who do not understand what I mean - it's not exercise the subject, but actually take it again as if it is the first time (with the orange highlighting etc.). Now, there is no such option.
07U - I used to re-do the individual lessons a lot, e.g. using the timed practice, and agree with the many comments similar to yours. What I've decided to do (on computer, so it might be different on tablet etc.) is to 'quit the lesson' just before I complete it! That way, I can at least practise the same lesson as many times as I like, before moving up a level on that topic. There are no penalties for failure to complete a lesson, or to move up a level, so this suits me until Duo brings back that function. I still think it's a great programme, we have some brilliant moderators on our Polish-learning programme, and I hope the 'chiefs' can sort out these other issues soon.
That’s a great work-around for current learning - thanks, though of course it doesn’t help with respect to the completed lessons.
From my previous comment in Where are the instructions for new skill levels/crowns
This will be my new strategy for my (forward) EN-PT 1,5 years tree:
- 1) Only re-golden those (vocabulary) crown L2 skills (75-100% strength) which I have already been practicing daily.
1a) I will be waiting until the "crown test out" feature is finally added which will probably fix what the simple conversion rule broke to move higher (especially true for the 39-44 skills of the first half of the tree) in a crown level hierachy.
1b) usually use the general "Practice / Strengthen skills" with "timed practice" button to save my streak and gain XPs.
- 2) Review notes and re-golden multiple crown L1/L2 (grammar) skills (100% strength).
- 3) Level-up grammar skills from crown L2 to crown levels L3-L5 (hopefully to see some more difficult and longer sentences).
- 4) Re-golden levelled-up L3-L5 (grammar) skills (100% strength) in iterations.
My plan is not to do 3) before 2).
It is easier to do points 2) and 3) if you order all skills on your SHOF progress page http://duome.eu/USERNAME/progress by Skill Name.
Use the "Practice" button to do a "Skill strengthen" exercise.
All (16) more difficult grammar / tense skills start with "Verbs:" (also applies to e.g English-Italian tree!).
Point 1) "Crown level test-out" will probably FIX any wrong conversion if SIMPLE rule was used
[Crown conversion BUG] Not a single L3 skill; 39 golden skills wrongly migrated to L2 for 1,5 years old tree (daily practiced): https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26853820
I could not update / improve my above text yet because of personal situations in my private life and currently it does not look like that I will be able to do so in the next ~4-5 months. Sorry guys.
Is anybody using Camilo's "Duolingo Next Lesson" Tampermonkey user script?
Finally I have added a new (longer) comment highlighting some facts about
- to filter skills by strength (there was an Stylus addon user style to filter golden skills in the pre-crown era)
- rename skill names (adding prefixes, e.g on our www.duome.eu/USERNAME/progress page)
- a (crowns) level-up lesson strategy concept to focus on more difficult grammar (e.g Subjunctives) / Verb tense skills
in Camilo's "Duolingo Next Lesson" thread: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/26849592$comment_id=29666271
as well as "[HOWTO]: Different ways for spaced repetition with skill strength viewer (user script and extension)" thread: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29304553$comment_id=29666130
I would like to invite advanced users and user script or user style programming gods to join and discuss questions and ideas on a brainstorming level.
That's a nice new feature that will attempt to accommodate everybody better, but I'm gonna throw a suggestion into the wind because I'm rather dissatisfied after having tried it out on a few skills.
Something that's particularly annoying about duolingo is its lack of variety in vocabulary and sentences within blocks, and also the ridicule of the sentences themselves. If the lowest levels are supposed to remain simple and light for people who'd rather have a simple and light introduction, why not, but if the higher levels are supposed to accommodate serious lerners, why not make the courses serious and more interesting ?
The problem with repetitive sentences is that at some point you no longer have to think about how to answer, you just learn sentences and answers by heart without understanding their grammatical structure. By adding some variety in vocabulary and sentences in each levels as they rise, you'd have to constantly strain yourself and jump left and right to answer correctly, allowing for a proper absorption and give better command of the language to each users. That way, in the earliest blocks alone one would already understand and know how to use the language better because of its constant and varied exposure to it, instead of sticking to extremely basic kindergarten like sentence examples. Practice does make perfect, blind repetition does not.
Please bring back the "vocabulary covered" portion for each lesson. I like to take notes on words learned while using Duolingo, and with this new upgrade I am unable to get an overview of the vocabulary each lesson covers. "Vocabulary covered" is a very organized, helpful, and quick way to review the contents of a lesson without having to go through the entire lesson itself.
Thank you for reading!
Hi SiawnOu, I still have the app installed for Windows 10 (and Windows Phone) and this hasn't changed to the crowns system yet. I can see there, which the original structure was (e.h. how many units per skill) and can see the word list per skill. But: doing stuff there won't add up for the crowns - the XP count nevertheless.
Maybe you can get to the word list this way too, in case you have a Windows based operating system (Windows Phone, Windows Tablet or any PC with Windows 10). I use it that way, when I reach a new skill, I look up which words are going to be handled and then I either do the first set there or directly via the website. The following crowns can only be done from within the website.
Within the app it is even possible to repeat the single units per skill. I hope they won't update it that fast. But normally, Windows platforms will be updated at last compared to Android and iOS (in terms of gaming apps for the smartphone)
I have the vocabulary at the Duolingo Wikia page, for example http://duolingo.wikia.com/wiki/Hebrew_Skill%3AVerbs%3A_Present_1
Hello. I have finished Level 1 Spanish. How do I go to Level 2? I have not been able to find that in the Help section. Thank you!
grdc5Te8: You must have already discovered how to do this when you posted, as you already have 3 skills at Level 2 (Family, Household, Verbs Subjunctive Past). As others have noted, just keep doing lessons in the specific skills that you want to get to the next level.
Thanks! I was not aware that I had done that already. I work on my desktop and my Android phone, and sometimes the two do not meet.
What kind of platform do you use? Do you see crowns? With crowns, you will have 5 levels to complete, but you should keep your tree balanced, i.e., at first you want to reach 1 crown for all units, and then you continue to level 2 and so on.
I am using Chrome. I see crowns for each area I have completed. I have gone through all of the areas at Level 1. Now I do not know how to go to Level 2. What do you think? Thank you for your response!
You just continue to do the classes by clicking on each lesson and you will be doing the units of the next crown level. When you finish all the units of the lesson again, your crown level will increase.
Moving to the next level happens automatically once you have completed all exercises for that level. Your blue (level 1) lesson icons will turn green. When you click on the individual icons, you can see how many different exercises this level contains and how many of those you have already finished. It will for example say "Level 1 - Completed 4/8"
There are lots of different ways to tackle the trees. Some people like to do everything through level 1 first, but other people have other approaches.
I am just happy to find out how to reach the other levels! I did go through all the areas through Level 1 first so I could get the lay of the land. I will keep this idea in mind about other ways to do the trees. Thanks!
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who responded. Nice community support! That makes me really happy to see.
It is very welcoming and encouraging. Great support for the first time I am learning a new language in years!
It's a long but rewarding journey. I think you'll find most people on these forums are incredibly helpful and nice. Best of luck to you! Once it became a habit for me, I found my levels of comprehension, etc. increased exponentially. Depending on the kind of learner you are, you might get a lot of value out of our local events, too. Disclaimer: as an event host, I'm inherently biased, lol. But I think they're great! Also, maybe consider joining a club. Some people get motivation from the competition and interaction. :)
I would love for you to elaborate on event hosting. I have been to two events in my area, but frankly, it's a long drive in crazy traffic. I have considered starting one closer to home. What advice can you give?
Hi MaryAnne993219! Great question. You could definitely apply to become a host (https://events.duolingo.com/host). :) If you do, we have an onboarding session that walks you through all the in and outs of holding events. We do have monthly suggested themes and activities to help get people started, but Duolingo gives us a good amount a freedom regarding the events, too. There's a really great support network in place for assistance. I've found it really gratifying, especially seeing people excited to be there and then seeing their RSVP come in for the next event. We have lots of creative hosts that share tons of ideas and resources with one another, like language games, etc. I'm not a social person, by any means, but I've really enjoyed hosting. Beyond that, it's a really great group of people to be involved with. Everyone shares with and supports each other. It's the kind of experience and camaraderie you only get with people who are passionate about something and love what they do.
This is what brought me back to Duolingo. It's a great way to strike the balance between focused skill development and casual exposure. Well done.
As a returning user who did several dozen courses prior to the update I find myself confused and lacking any guidance on “what to do” now.
Previously I would see the skill of a course get lower so I knee o needed to practice that course. Now however with the new crowns system I have 27 courses at lvl 2 but I have no idea where I need to “brush up”.
What path is recommended ? Get all courses to 3 then go back and get all courses to 4, or leve a course to 5-10 and then go to the next one?
Help... I’m lost.
It seems to get easier the more you practice because it gets etched to your brain!! :)
Except that there is really no increasing difficulty. They took the old content and rearranged it in a new way. More of the same.
@tolunayo, sentences that had previously been culled (before Crowns) because of a high fail rate due to difficulty were added back to the courses (for Crowns). The number returned increasing as Crown levels increase.
Edited to increase clarity.
OK. That is something at least for some units.
Then again, what is the point of having 5 levels for initial unit when there is really not much you can add to it.
On the other hand, what needs to happen is get rid of say Sports 1, 2, 3 etc. each having 5 levels. Make it Sports and redistribute the content to 5 levels if you will. At least as you level up, it reduces the repetitiveness.
OK. That is something at least for some units. Then again, what is the point of having 5 levels for initial unit when there is really not much you can add to it.
If there is more, I was an early Alpha tester. So, I suspect my information by now is incomplete.
As someone using the Spanish course for my own studies and experiencing Crowns, I'm at a state of waiting to see what changes Duolingo makes to the feature. There is room for improvement and I pretty much think of change as inevitable after all of these years on Duo.
Personally, I'd like to be able to go back and review lessons in earlier Crown levels without having to complete all 5 crowns. Also, I hope Reverse trees become more accessible again. As is, A reverse tree starts the learner coming from the other direction on the hardest setting and progresses into an easier one.
Five per skill, with the exception of the bonus skills, which only have 1 crown level each.
Hello and thanks for this information, it certainly enhances the app! I do have a suggestion for the web designers about the FONTS used on the phone app. Is it possible to replace the current fonts with BOLD FACE FONTS on the phone app? This would make it soooo much easier to read and to see the ACCENTS! Especially for those of us who have to find our reading glasses.... bold face fonts would make the type much easier to read and to work on the language of choice. Thank you!
Several of my Spanish Skills circles are orange colored with #5. On other circles their rim changes color when I pass a lesson. Do I need special tinted and/or magnified lenses to see the color advances?
Please explain what you mean by "leveling up." How does one do that?
You bring crowns from L0 / 1 level to higher crowns 3-5 levels.
You can do so by completing all lessons (=crown sessions) per crown skill level.
Once all lessons are completed, you will gain the next crown level.
Is it simply going back to levels I have completed and hitting practice?
The PRACTICE / re-strengthen button has nothing to do with it.
Please note: In the "crown update overlay UI frontend" you are not allowed anymore to click the PRACTICE button; you would have to have the highest L5 crown level per skill, only then the button is visible again.
If you want to re-strengthen specific previous skills on L1-L4 crown levels, you have to your progress page: http://www.duome.eu/USERNAME/progress
Choose your skill and click the barbell PRACTICE button on this webpage, which will redirect you to www.duolingo.com and start a re-strengthen session (not a lesson or "crown session").
Quote: How do we know when we need to strenghten a skill?
Unfortuantely, the "crown skill UI overlay frontend" has taken that away in 2018 with the half-baken "crown update" introduction and rollout in February to April 2018.
They also have finally removed the old "Python 2016 code" on the web so I could not switch back to it with the "whitelist workaround" anymore and to work with the very great "Duolingo trim tree" and "Duolingo course progress" (old Python compatible only) user scripts.
[HOWTO]: Different ways for spaced repetition with skill strength viewer (user script and extension): https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29304553
If you want to focus on the grammar skills / advanced verb tense skills in your tree - if available as staff courses (e.g French 8+12) nowadays REMOVE many previously avaialble dedicated grammar skills - you can choose a different approach.
Susanna: Although the main Duolingo site doesn't show the strength of each skill, it still calculates it. Your strength data can be seen at: https://www.duome.eu/susannafulcher/progress Full strength skills are shown as 100%, whilst those shown as 75%/50%/25% require strengthening.
What is the 'intended' method for advancing now? I.e. Is it 'better' to go through the entire skill tree at level 1, then level 2 etc. or are you expecting that we should complete all lesson on one skill bubble to 5 crowns before starting the next skill? OR, is there something else you'd recommend more?
I definitely like it! I just want to try and follow your planned methods :)
Well, try for yourself but I found that trying to complete to level 5 before moving on the the next skill meant I got a lot of repetition and so it was a bit boring. So I decided I would get to level 2 in everything and then go back and work my way through to level 3 in everything, and so on. Sometimes I’ve varied my strategy to concentrate a bit more on one skill but generally I find just working through the whole tree going up one level at a time in each skill seems to be a good way to progress and keep the interest up.
(Well, that’s what I’ve been doing with my Italian. With the Korean and Japanese I only wanted to learn to read the hanguel and hiragana/katakana before a visit so I haven’t actually tried to progress up the tree at all).
Hi there, I am learning Arabic through your app and have been using the crown feature. Is there a way to make it only 5 lessons each level up? My sister is also learning Arabic at the same time and seems to have it this way so I’m not sure if it’s a setting or something? If you could please change this on my account or let me know who to contact I would appreciate it. Thanks!
Quote: Is there a way to make it only 5 lessons each level up? My sister is also learning Arabic at the same time and seems to have it this way so I’m not sure if it’s a setting or something?
No, there is no specific setting.
I heard they are testing this for some users in the past weeks.
Quote: If you could please change this on my account or let me know who to contact I would appreciate it.
You want to change this?
No, you cannot easily force any A/B experiments if you want to be on the A or B side.
Duolingo does not work like that.
You can give it a try by creating multiple user accounts..but there is no guarantee which account is assigned to which testing group.
IMHO it would be way too complicated to try it for each account how many L0/L1 lessons you finally have to finish per skill (e.g reduced lesson sequence vs x2, x3, x5 iterations on the higher crown levels).
So to figure this out you would have to first complete your tree on the lower L0->L1 and L1->L2 crown level to test out of the remaining skills.
Well, you could try this for the first 3-5 skills...
......but maybe you run into another (hidden) A/B test if different skills at different tree places (top, middle section, bottom) might have different total lesson iteration counts.
For a language like Arabic which is rated by FSI/DLI as "super hard" in the category IV table for native English speakers more iterations (x2, x3, x5) might actually help to drill words and different challenge exercises (tapping vs multiple-choice vs typing, recognition vs L2 recall testing, typing in the L2 target language instead of reading, etc.).
Thank you Karint for starting this. I'm looking forward to the new challenge!
Great change, I was thinking my Duolingo time was going to come to an end in a few months as i moved up in understanding.
So, how will finished and completely gold trees appear? All skills will have top level?
That's will be much better because I have nothing to do on EN-VI course.
Awesome. Thank you for such an amazing work (and I'm not just talking about this specific improvement, but Duolingo itself. It's definitely one of the best apps around).
Really looking forward to trying this new feature in my Italian learning.
I feel that I've plateaued with my learning, and this sounds exactly like the additional work I need to do to start improving a little more.
Thank you very much.
Sounds amazing. I love the idea of being able to taste new languages casually AND concentrate on learning a few more deeply. One of the things I missed was the large variety of sentences I used to get when reviewing skills - I guess I was one of the few who DIDN'T want to keep doing the same sentence until I stopped making typos. Yay!! I can hardly wait.
This is such a great idea and I'm so excited for it to be released onto Apple. I really want Duolingo to add in a placement test which can estimate your language level. (A1-C2)
So basically you took strength level and kicked it up a notch?
Also, is this something on the website, or exclusive to the app? I tend to prefer the website.
the original post says it's coming to all platforms, fortunately as I also prefer the web.
As always, I'm late to the party, but this sounds brilliant! At least for me, it'll help to keep on practising the languages whose trees I've already completed. (Which is specially awesome in the case of French, Italian and Danish, since next year I'm passing certificate tests for the three!)
As someone new to duolingo, these are the things that discourage me from continuing a course: 1. no audio (I would learn Swahili if it had audio) 2. having to use a virtual keyboard outside of the web page (Russian, etc) 3. excessive repetitions: "hello duo, my name is duo, type hello duo, ..." could be "hello Adria, my name is Kevin, type 'bye/hello George', ..."
That said, I have learned more of a multiple languages in 6 days than I have learned of a single language after 6 months of using Pimsleur & Rosetta Stone.
The virtual keyboard is a real source of discouragement, which is why I'd recommend spending a few days to get used to the Russian keyboard setting on your computer. There are definitely growing pains with learning a new keyboard, but once you bite the bullet and learn it you're golden. Virtual keyboards are terrible no matter how much practice you get.
Sounds like a wonderful upcoming feature I can't wait to try it out :)
Long live Duolingo!
Excited about this as I want to improve my skills. I have finished the Spanish tree and keep going to improve my understanding. Look forward to this new method of learning.
This is an excellent idea. Any chance it'll come to the website version (once finalized for the app)?
As mentioned in the post, it'll come to all major platforms (Android, iOS, and web).
Hello, just a couple of questions:
Is it under testing? Are you going to deploy this new feature for all users any soon? Is it supposed to be in place for all languages taught on Duolingo, or just for a small selection?
Thanks a lot for all your efforts at Duo! :-D
That's great! This will give me incentive to go back to French, which I had abandoned a few months ago.
Thanks for adding this! I feel that part of improving for more serious learners is to be able to speak the language well and sound like a native. My question is why doesn't the online PC version enable audio/microphone? I only speak to the app on my Android app version because the online version only requires typed answers. Is this going to be resolved in the future?
I can’t wait! But is this going to be added on the most popular courses only? (Spanish, french), (just like bots) or is it getting added on more courses, and will it be added on italian for English speakers?
Sounds like a wonderful improvement to an already great platform. Merci beaucoup!
what are the plans of your team to do with the global "Strengthen skills" button?
Are you going to add some further intelligence to your code, that it can mix from multiple (selectable, e.g grammar) skills?
At the moment this button behaves really dumb:
If any skill is non-golden and you click on it, then it will select the first non-golden (e.g strength 1-4) skill from top to down in your tree.
Basically, you can't work with this strengthen button.
And it fails to (power-)strengthen multiple skills (e.g 5, 10, 15, 20) at the same time and random vocabulary.
It too much depends on 1-2/3 single skills.
Make the global PRACTICE (re-strengthen) button:
more intelligent: mix content from several skills randomly (I heard there are two new bugs for high L5 skills and 100% strength trees, so it may not be advisable at the moment to reach the highest level!)
and customizable: I want to focus on mixed content from 26+ grammar / verb tense skills!
and allow a user to work from the BOTTOM to the top.
This would be good for:
recently learned skills with 4h + 12h + 1-6day required spaced repetition (SR) review intervals
not so often practiced skills as you do not reach the 2nd half or last 1/3 of your tree with re-strengthen exercises that easily:
Words decay from previous skills all the time from 100% back to 75/50/25% which you have to re-strengthen first, so you actually would need to invest a lot of daily / weekly XPs to make that happen.
If you like my suggestion, I would be glad if also could up-vote my feature request in Dr. Luis van Ahn's "What changes would you like to see" thread: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/28202855$comment_id=29981235
This sounds excellent! I'm looking forward to seeing this feature. I do hope that this provides an extra incentive for those of us who have finished our tree to continue using Duolingo.
how does everybody learn so many languages at once like you are like level 25????
I have been using it for a while and I feel way more motivated than before. I feel almost the same feeling when I started exploring the same tree. +100 for having it into thwe web app. Amazing!
Thank you! At times in the past I left Duolingo to learn/practice elsewhere, but I'm really looking forward to this!
WoooHooo this sounds like the perfect balance!!! Thank you Duo for continuing to make improvements for us.
That sounds wonderful. I am looking forward to the advancement. I hope the andriod verson comes , since I I traval a lot these days and can't make it to the pc much anymore. Anyway looking forward to the up date thanks so much :)
Thank you, so in 2019, we'll be able to get to our groups online?
(The web was born on computers).
iDobie, it's rolled out to the website version as well by now. (but to be honest: my Windows Phone and Windows Tablet app still have the old version)
This is great! Ojala va a ayudarme con mi frances. Everything is getting redundant.
I really like this idea. This has the benefit of motivating me to keep going in a language where I already completed the tree.
Wow, I am so looking forward to this feature! Duo has needed something like this, especially for some courses (Spanish, in my experience) that seem much easier than others.
That sounds great. Hopefully I won't have to keep translating basic words like a "cat" anymore and can finally learn more vocabulary.
I never had that problem; on the very basic skills (the first four or five maybe) there were exercises like that, but that's what basic skills are for. I don't think it ever turned up later on.
Not totally sure, but from what I read above, it seems that the contributors don't have to add harder content for the update to take place, rather that it will be much easier for them to do so (or any content at all really). So fingers crossed :)
1) Will this feature be available on earlier android versions like the 4.4 series? 2) On a personal level, does this also explain the flickering/disappearing crown which continues to pop-up in the upper right corner of the screen when running duoling?
This is exactly what I need. I'm down to keeping my German tree golden but there are a few skills that I struggle with and need more work on, but I'm starting to learn the particular sentences used there...
It feels like Duo is really improving with this feature, I couldn't be happier to see this!
That is wonderful, thank you! Sometimes I think I am losing my mind though... I am being corrected on what I think is a technicality and then the technicality that I was corrected on becomes the correct answer?
This feature sounds fantastic! I m halfway (kind of) through the Turkish tree and was wondering if I needed to start looking at the web for more advanced, sentence-formation kind of practice. I'm so glad to know that I do not need to go elsewhere and Duo will soon be launching it. Yayy! :D
i got my dad the app and i was confused when i saw he had a totally different layout. looking forward to this
Sounds great. I a am looking forward to this feature. But I also wonder how this will affect the courses regarding their levels measured up against The Common European Framework of Reference for Languages - ranging from A1 to C2. In the Making Duolingo Blog I have seen the Japanese course rated at A1, and the new Chinese course at A2. Generally, how are courses rated in the A1 - C2 framework, and how will the new level features influence that ?
I really hope this works out because it seems like a very good addition to Duolingo!
Yessss you have been testing this on me. I have had to type more to redeem my streak instead of paying. Why am I loosing my streak in the first place? boredom! After building a Deutsche tree. Bring it on guys, thanks so much for making Humanity great again. Thanks once more. Okay lingots right ...
Guys, Duolingo is the best. Period. Thank you for being so awesome and for always improving to encourage us to become better at learning languages!
This is excellent. I love duolingo. It’s been fun to review languages I know and learn new ones, but it doesn’t take long to reach the limits of learning. I welcome harder and more advanced content.
As I'm hoping to finish my Spanish tree next month this comes at a perfect time to help me to continually strengthen my skills and stay interested. Thanks Duolingo, keep up the good work :)
Good. I need more of a challenge.
Duo thank you so much for all that you offer. I'm loving the Hebrew course.
Oh, wow. That looks great. It's exactly the sort of thing I've been wanting from Duolingo. I can't wait to try it.
As a teacher who uses Duolingo extensively with students, I'm delighted to hear about this update. In principle, sounds a lot like some zone of proximal development based work. Vygotsky would be happy. As is this teacher:). Thanks Duolingo.
Love the recent changes. The possibility to turn off the audio questions is really helpful too when I am learning in a situation where I am unable to listen. Thanks Duolingo - a great resource.
How does one go about becoming a beta tester for great new features like this?
a new challenge for the new year! Bring it on..... i love it now, i am sure i will love it even more! Blwyddyn Newydd dda!
I was wondering..does Doulingo teach u to learn all of the language or most of it. I got Idioms and Proverbs and Flirting(: but was wondering if that is taught in the actual lessons. Thanks. Oh, and i'm super exited for Skill Levels!Was also wondering if Skill Levels are going to come on the computer or just phones. I'm on the computer
Really EnchantressX, "all of the language"? No one knows all of any language.
Duolingo, in its current state, is actually more geared towards casual learning. After finishing a whole tree, you will still have more to learn to expand on topics and be able to apply your skills. Although Duolingo is an amazing service, one ought to invest in books and practice in real life after finishing the tree. And yes, some idioms are taught, but by no means, all of them.
I think this is a wonderful idea! I just have a few questions... How will this be rolled out to the old trees? And, will this have a change on the fluency percentages?
I was actually wandering the same thing, but more about how it will impact on my progress on the three. I mean, I'm close to finish it, but if this gets implemented before I finish it in this version of Duo, will it set me back or...?
Yeah, I'm a bit concerned about that too. And, what will happen to the strength bars? Will those go away or just be rebranded?
Any update on when this will be going live? I'm looking forward to it!
thank you .. you are really amazing ... please try to connect more grammar exercises with every case or rule we study
I think this will give us a new level of flexibility and I am excited to try it. I do go up and down the tree and I sometimes think I am mostly just getting used to the previous lessons (although I always seem to solidify something I haven't learned before.)
I saw a comment somewhere in this thread (but now I can't find it to reply) about needing to make better verbal/aural/neural connections in order to remember vocabulary. That is my learning problem. So for my own personal use I have started making YouTube videos that marry the DuoLingo vocabulary list from each lesson, to what I think is the best spoken version of the word from Forvo. I apologize for any copyright violations - but this is for my personal use and I am not telling anybody.
As a linguist and more serious learner I find this to be very exciting. Can’t wait for more serious content. The stories are also wonderful.
I've been trying the new skill levels, but some of them ask for translations to words that I have not yet seen. How is this a learning experience?
That's exactly the method, mimicking in a way how one learns one's own tongue. You encounter new words, guess their meaning by context clues, try using them, be corrected if necessary, try again until it sinks and you don't have to think about it anymore. Don't you have the option to see a translation by hovering your mouse pointer over the word? When it's new, it should even be yellow to help you notice it.
Happy New Year anyway :)
Intelligent guesswork is actually a vital and incredibly useful skill in learning a foreign lanhuahe. It's actually also afaik better for retention if you guess a word to start with, even if you get it completely wrong!
Like Vabelie says, there's usually a hint option, but what you're describing is absolutely a learning experience which will be much better for your acquisition in the long term.
Wow! This looks so amazing! Unfortunately, I don't own an Android device; perhaps you guys/gals could release the new features on ios/web earlier?
Hi Axelknows, staff has announced in the main post up top that:
this will be coming to everyone early next year on all major platforms (Android, iOS, and web)
If you're taking them, a feature suggestion I have for the crown system when you roll it out for Japanese: Generally, I like the WAY the kanji are taught, but I feel like the NUMBER of kanji taught (at least up to the Position lessons) isn't high enough for my liking—I find long strings of kana hard to read. I'm not sure of the rationale behind which kanji to teach, but perhaps expect learners to know all the associated kyōiku kanji by skill level 3 and all the associated jōyō kanji by skill level 5. (Maybe not the kanji for terms usually written in kana anyway, but I think it's a good baseline.) What do you think?
Hi! I believe the current tree is designed to provide all the kanji required for the JLPT5. I, too, would love to see more kanji, for the exact reason you mention. Although they are difficult, once you learn them, it is difficult to read so much kana. Lol However, the JLPT5 seems more focused on vocabulary acquisition. There's a pretty big jump in number from the JLPT5 to the JLPT4. (I think it makes more sense to use the JLPT exams as a guide, rather than kyōiku / jōyō, as as anyone who wants to live and work in Japan would likely need to take it.)
But all the jōyō kanji is a pretty tall order! Most people don't need that high a level of kanji proficiency. :) Duolingo is more of an introductory program right now. I'm quite curious as to how much farther they plan to go with it. I use other apps to supplement my kanji learning, but I really love Duolingo's format. I'm very excited to see where this goes.
Thank you, Duolingo. What you're doing is so generous. I continue to enjoy the change ups -- a wonderful format...I love you ! I'm still with you.
I'm thrilled for this! I usually use grammar books to supplement whatever I do on duolingo, but it'll be nice to also have a way to track my progress within the app. Bravo!
awesome... look forward to seeing the new update on iOS. Thank you so much for improving the app continuously...
This sounds like a really good idea! I do hope for the Progress tests to come back and maybe also a grammar section to be introduced.
Interesting concept, and certainly a new twist to keep old users using the app for longer and for new ones to come aboard! Keep up the good work :)
Just wondering if you know about how soon this new feture will be coming out as I am really excited to try it me and my sister are learning Spanish and would love more practice translating to Spanish. This all sounds supper amazing. Cant wait to try it out.
wouldn't it be great if the klingon language got to beta. I mean it was supposed to come last september! is there a problem i don't know about?
Yes, there is a problem.
Duo acts oddly about words beginning or ending with an apostrophe -- for example, it doesn't show hints for words that start with an apostrophe.
That's bad for Klingon because it uses apostrophe as a letter, and some very common words such as 'ej "and" or 'oH "it (is)" start with an apostrophe.
Duo also sometimes gives odd error messages for words ending with an apostrophe -- for example, in the German course, there's a sentence about a house belonging to your grandparents, and if you use the (correct) phrase "my grandparents' house" you will be told that you have a typo and that it should be "my grandparents house" (without the apostrophe at the end of grandparents'), which is wrong.
So that's also a problem for Klingon, which can have words ending with apostrophe, e.g. verbs with the common negative ending -be'.
The words and sentences have been ready for weeks, so now the bottleneck is Duolingo programmers.
I'm not sure where on their priority list the apostrophe issue is, nor do I have an estimate for the date when Klingon can move onward. I wish I did.
This looks like an amazing update! Seems like it will do a great job increasing the effectiveness of the mobile app for people of all levels of commitment. Thanks so much for this and all the other amazing things the Duolingo team has been doing! :)
I like the sound of this. Can't wait to give it a shot.
Sounds good. Will this be implemented for all users who have already a full tree? And when will it be available for IOS?
This sounds very promising but my real need is to be able to see again the sentences that I have answered on all skills. As I practice to try to keep my skills golden I am being given sentences that I am sure I have not seen before but do not believe there is any way I can go over them again. It is becoming a little frustrating.
It has to go beyond listing the vocabulary as the sentence structures are becoming more advanced.
Please make this facility available.
UPDATE: I have recently set up a new account to be able to start using the new skill levels with 'crowns' on the Android app.
The idea is great but I believe it suffers from one major drawback in that a lesson once completed cannot be repeated. I do a lot of practice to keep my skills golden but am able to return to first principles on any skill when my understanding or memory fails.
With the new system nothing of this sort seems to be possible.
Please allow us to go back to previous levels by offering a level choice and make the content of that level visible. I do not like the idea of working blind.
This is why it is only in beta, so a few people can try it out and provide feedback on issues and possible improvements.
It may even come out earlier, but companies don't give precise dates so far out just in case they have to delay it a bit. "Early next year" is just a placeholder date until closer to launch when they have a more solid launch date is available.
At this point, it would be a little hard to release this feature earlier than expected. Since this announcement was posted last year, it is already "early next year."
I never knew the phrase "A/B test" could elicit such primal hatred from me before duolingo.
I am using the new version, and I love it. I just wish I could have the same option for the computer!!
Does this mean I won't keep having to repeat really straightforward lessons like "food" and "animals" whenever I'm away for a day or two?
Looking forward to the new features that you have talked about in this post. As a person actually interested in learning the language — I would not consider myself a casual learner — I have so far found the method a tad too easy. In the multiple choice section, guessing the answer does not involve any real thinking; one tends to have all of the hints in place. I sincerely hope that it would become a more enjoyable platform for serious learners as well. Thanks for all the effort.