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"Ellos fueron sin saber."

Translation:They went without knowing.

5 years ago

88 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Iago
Iago
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Could this also translate to, "They were without knowledge"?

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kassandra8286
kassandra8286
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Not according to Duolingo, evidently. :/

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RAMOSRAUL

Yes, to some extent... depends a lot on what the context is.

If you are talking about some guys who went backcountry and got lost, no equipment and the like... because they had no experience and no knowledge you can actually say so. it could be completed as "sin saber lo que se iban a encontrar"

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/fox11sevens

they need to fix that

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Russ_Eaton
Russ_Eaton
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I put the same but still not accepted.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/hardingr

That was my answer.I think saber required the "el" to be used as knowledge,leaving only"knowing".As "They were without knowing" doesn't work the verb must be ir & not ser .

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/percyflage

I am going without knowing too. Knowing what this phrase means, for a start! There are some truly obscure & impractical phrases in this section.

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Atokirina

Learning in Duolingo apparently isn't based on learning phrases, not to mention practical. :) It is about trial and error, communication, research and constructing your own sentences. It's making a daily effort and it is an engaging journey into a new language. And for me so far it's been significantly more effective than any phrasebook. That's why I love it so much. :)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/percyflage

I agree.....but I have a phrasebook too :)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Patti0

I have "501 Spanish Verbs"

6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/soyFelipeH

very good, well said. thanks

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OmaJennie

Did you just "drink the Kool-Ade" or did you help Make the Kool-Ade?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Patti0

eso es no necesario

6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kazmax1

Yes, some of the sentences are pretty weird. I guess, if some people were going off somewhere and the group they left behind had forgotten to pass on some information to them, they could say "They went without knowing..." (ie, "that there would be no bus to meet them", or whatever...)

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ying56

What a load of tosh!

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/marliner

I don't see much difference in meaning between "without knowing" and "without knowledge" - particularly because this sentence is offered without any context at all.

The initial lessons focusing on rote vocabulary were useful, but as it progresses this is becoming an exercise in guessing as to what the accepted answers are, then repeating the exercise 2 or 3 times to enter those, without any explanation or rationale as to why those are the "correct" ones.

Occasionally these discussion threads give a hint, but it is getting to the point where the time required and the frustration outweigh the benefits.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DareILingo

So my kneejerk response was to tell you that saber is a verb, but I thought about how languages work and did my research first. Saber indeed is also a noun which can mean knowledge. I think that in order for this phrase to be read as "They went without knowledge," you would need to say, "Ellos fueron sin el saber." Without the article there to clarify, I just don't think that the Spanish would be taken to mean what you want.

The important distinction between, "going without knowing," and, "going without knowledge," being, of course, that you can, "go to the mall without knowing why," but it gets strange to believe that you, "go to the mall without the knowledge of why." Does it.... work? Depends on your definition of effective communication.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/marliner

In English, the gerund is formed with -ing. Confusingly, the continuous form in English is also formed with -ing. You may be confusing the two. In many cases, the gerund and infinitive are interchangeable. For ex: I like to know vs. I like knowing.

In Spanish, the infinitive is used, so "saber" may be treatable as a verb, or as a noun, depending on context.

My point was that direct word-for-word translations don't always work, and it is very difficult to know whether they do or don't based on a single sentence without context. If duolingo is going to give questions based on single sentences without context, they should at least broaden the range of "acceptable" answers to include other possible translations.

As it is, it becomes an exercise in guessing which of many possible translations are acceptable, then repeating the entire set of questions over and over to enter those particular translations.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DareILingo

I appreciate your response, marliner, but I was not attempting to differentiate what's acceptable in Spanish and how that translates (often inconsistently) to multiple forms to English. What I'm saying is that it is simply bad English to say, "I went to the mall without knowledge of why." That is not an acceptable English form. It is, however, good English to say, "I went to the mall without knowing why." Likewise, the translation, "They went without knowledge," while not technically incorrect.... would really need specific context so as not to come across as a very weird thing to say. Because in English, that prior form is distinct from, "They went without knowing," in meaning, albeit by nuance. You are obviously very literate, so I believe you when you say that either of these sentences in English would translate to the same sentence in Spanish, but the point is that the form "without knowledge" is RARE in English, and should basically be incorrect based on the fact that it needs context--- context that is usually overlapped and included in the other form anyway. The prefered English translation is simply, "They went without knowing."

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/miza713

I completely agree... Except for the part about how DL shouldn't accept "They went without knowledge." I agree that this would be a thing that would be rare to say, but I could see it being used poetically. Also, add one word - "prior" - and suddenly this does become a commonly used sentence.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DareILingo

Good point about the addition of an adverb making it a common phrase! "They went without prior knowledge," is definitely considered good English, and you're right, too, when you say that there's nothing technically wrong with the sentence (it's just "poetic").

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/percyflage

Eso es genial! Works well, doesn't it? I find myself banging out sentences and phrases without having to think at times.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OmaJennie

How is it you can do that? I don't have that option. I also don't have access to the immersion section of my languages.

And, was an earlier version of DL actually more like a game? I read about people gaining or losing hearts, but I don't know of what they speak.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AlastairSmith

I completely agree with everything you've said. It's very frustrating being marked wrong for something that is obviously correct.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OmaJennie

AGREED!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/shuttlecock

why is "they left without knowing" wrong?

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Iago
Iago
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I'd say because "se fue" would be used in that case.

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rmcgwn

I agree we could use 'se fue' which is the conjugated third person for 'irse' not 'ir'.

5 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/THeNeeno

Did the sentence change? Duolingo does that sometimes. 'Fueron' goes with 'ellos'. 'Fue' goes with singular third person.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SamuelOrr

I think many of these sentences are a bit stilted and sometimes border on the illiterate or the incomprehensible. Maybe Duolingo is not being careful and the exercises are for the purpose of teaching us that the Spanish infinitive is often interpreted like the English gerund with its "ing" ending.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ken.goodwi

Nice debate here. To go without knowing is to be without knowledge of the fact. The fact is unknown without furter context. In a general sense,They went without knowledge.

Specificaly, They went without knowing. Or, They went without the knowledge.

I am currently without the knowledge of knowing, to know if both are known to be correct. Perhaps if I knew, I would then have the knowledge of knowing thus could possibly help make it known so we would know because, well knowing is only half the battle.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kazmax1

Could it not also be translated as "They were unaware..."?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Onntastic
Onntastic
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Fueron - means both "went" and "were"?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/gernt
gernt
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Yes. How long did you wait for an answer?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/suezq
suezq
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Is this just random stuff or could this be translated as they went without preparation/investigation etc?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mvdmeulen

How can "saber" be "knowing" is this case? Shouldn't it be sabiendo?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/aidan8
aidan8
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mostly what is the gerund in English is translated to the infinitive in Spanish so that would be pretty normal I think. I gave "They were unaware" which seemed plausible - but DL says no!

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/miza713

I think this kind of goes beyond simple translation into the realm of creative license.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/marliner

In English, the continuous form "I am jumping" (i.e., I'm jumping now as we speak) just happens to be the exact same as the gerund "I like jumping" (i.e., I enjoy jumping as an activity). They aren't the same in Spanish - the gerund is generally shown by the infinitive, as in "I like to jump", "me gusta saltar"

Hope that helps some.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/spanish-lady

"they left without knowing" - marked incorrect - any comments? Sl

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ge_101

Once again if this sentence could mean either knowledge or knowing but DL only wants one damn translation possibility they need to give us more context then.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tobioye88

Spanish literal translation sounds to me like old English. (Shakespeare kinda line) "they were without knowledge", "they were not knowing"

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jfGor
jfGor
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the verb is 'ir'

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kazmax1

Yes, in this instance. But it is also the past tense of 'ser'... which is what makes it so confusing.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/patlar

Why not simply say 'they did not know!'

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MadalinaAp

Duolingo is worse than ever when you get to the advanced side.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/aloukanov

Why is "They went unknowingly" wrong???

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/bdawsn

What threw me was past tense of ir and ser are the same. I translated "They were without knowing"

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CarolineWi9

Me too. I translated as "They were unknowing". Strange, I know.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kazmax1

So did I. So confusing!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/bdawsn

type it into SpanishDict.com and your get "They were without knowing" or "They were unaware"

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/amble2lingo

I know that the "v" in Spanish is always/mostly/sometimes pronounced as a "b" depending on who is speaking, what they are saying, and where they are from. But, I have never heard the "b" pronounced as a "v," as in this sentence and a few others in DL. She (I know it's a computer) distinctly says: "sah-VEHR." Has anyone whose native language is Spanish heard this pronunciation?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/djwhitten
djwhitten
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As I understand it, they are interchangeable in pronunciation as letters. That said, at the beginning of words they sound closer to a soft English "b", or when against a consonant. In between vowels it sounds closer to the English "v", but without the teeth touching the lips.

Does that help?

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kazmax1

I'm not at native Spanish speaker, but according to Fluencia (a course which I am also using), the two letters are pretty much interchangeable.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OmaJennie

I'm not a native speaker, either, but I noticed this in church one day; and, have noticed it several other times since then.

Basically, pretty much across the board, not just in Spanish but other languages, too, from what I've been able to discern, B=V=F=P, =Pf, =Ph. Similarly, Z=S=C=K=Ch=Q.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kyra.rae

could this also mean, "They didn't know." ??

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/8stringfan

I heard "Ellos fueron sin servir", which I translated to "they went without service". Obviously I misheard the sentence, but just out of curiosity, could that be a correct sentence, perhaps if the power or cable was out and they were without service?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dgatchell

Light bulb moment: So the preterite conjugations for both Ser (to be / permanent quality / translated: they were) and Ir (to go / translated: they went) are exactly the same. Am I not correct?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kazmax1

Correct.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Talei16
Talei16
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Why has this question been repeated so many times?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/gosutag
gosutag
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"They went out without knowing" should be accepted too.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kazmax1

If they wanted to use the verb "to go out", I think they would have used "salir".

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TMac659805

But where were they going without ever knowing the way?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Aditya212
Aditya212
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Wrote "they left" and got marked wrong.. I believe "ellos fueron" is not exclusive for "they went" only, can anybody fluent back me up?

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jfGor
jfGor
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Fueron is the past tense of 'ir' (to go) and in English it is 'went' ; 'irse is the Spanish verb for (to leave) and the past tense is 'left' and in order to say they left, one would have to say 'se fueron'.You can't always substitute one for the other in English. example: They left the party. They went to the movies. Two different verbs. Hope this helps.

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/teetor1

The drop down bar suggested knowledge, is that a form of entrapment or should we ignore it and go with or gut??

4 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OmaJennie

I've noticed, from reading several different discussion pages regarding several different verbs, that DL seems to be in the habit of presenting vastly differing definitions for certain verbs without offering any way to distinguish between said verbs, mostly reflexive and non-reflexive counterparts, except to reject one's translations. Didn't anyone else notice that DL was using the exact same verb -crear- to mean both "create" and "believe"? That's just one example; the most blatant. Most of the other examples are much more subtle, like ir vs. irse.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/amble2lingo

"CreAr" means to create. "CreEr" means to believe. They are two different verbs. They do share the same verb form in the first person singular present (creo) and this can be confusing, but the other conjugated forms are slightly different.
http://www.spanishdict.com/conjugate/crear http://www.spanishdict.com/conjugate/creer

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/NYBookworm

I translated this as "They were without knowledge" and thought it might mean that in the sense of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden before eating from the tree of knowledge. It was marked incorrect. Even after reading the comments, however, I don't quite understand why this would be incorrect. Could someone please explain it to me. Thanks.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dogon3
dogon3
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If I don't have knowledge, I will go without knowing?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JeremyBabcock
JeremyBabcock
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But where were they going without even knowing the way....?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FunkyKong1406

no it cant be that

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SharkFin98

Me when i downloaded this app

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vito731420

thanx

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ayniljd

How do we know when it is 'went without' and when it is 'went out without'?

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/amble2lingo

I think DL would have used "salen" (from salir) if they had meant "went out."

10 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DivingPro380218

Were the sleepwalking?

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Opanner
Opanner
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I think this could be translated "they were without knowledge" but Duo dinged me for it. Am I wrong?

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/chrissyred

It also means with out. Grr

7 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mars7017
mars7017
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I didn't see anyone post this before. To 'go without' (past tense 'went without') is synonymous with 'to lack' in English, faltar en espaƱol. To 'go' without knowing also indicates that they lacked the knowledge.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/NicTrower

This sentence should have 'lo' after saber: Ellos fueron sin saberlo. Lo means that.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Kazmax1

No, "lo" means "it"; "eso" means "that".

3 months ago