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"me and you"

Translation:ich und du

January 2, 2018

89 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terraling

"Me and you" is a classical error in english as many people (who are not aware of the existence of grammatical cases in english) use the accusative instead of the nominative case for the personal pronoun I; it is safe to assume that "me" in the sentence is not the object but the subject, and so it is incorrect. In correct english one should say "I and you", unless it's the direct object as in "He can see me and you".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JerHB

This is grammatically incorrect in numerous ways, actually. The first person pronoun always goes last in a string in English, so it's 'you and I'.

Then we have the whole 'Me' thing as well. Me is Objective Case, which we haven't studied the equivalents yet in German at the point we get this question. I think the most grammatically equivalent answer here would be 'mich und dich' or 'mir und dir', but...technically I'm not supposed to know those yet. :3


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrDemetr

You're right. But a certain generation (Generation X - mainly the kids that grew up in the 70s) had a kids TV program at the time called "You And Me". I can vaguely remember the song lyrics to the titles including the lines " You and me, me and you, lots of things, for us to do, do-do do-do do-do do-doo".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAnlageIV

In correct English one NEVER says "I and you", but rather "you and I. "


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ISNOBattle

In danish it is gramatical wrong to mention yourself first in a senence like this, it has to be: you and i. It also sounds wrong to say: i and you, imo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ISNOBattle

I wrote this before I saw 'Jer HB's reply


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Slagar1

I agree with the main point you're making, but in addition, I've always been taught to list myself last. "You and I", "He can see you and me", "Jim, Bob, you, and I are going to the store."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/louis508363

I am from Germany and you are correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/adamtatusko

How about "You and I" Duolingo? How about that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Raisinnoir

"Me and you " is impolite English. Educated people always say "you and I".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pronkman666

The correct answer for me was "mir und dir" but dir is not shown as a word for you. Can someone please explain how to use it and if it is Masculine, Feminine or Neuter


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

dir is the dative case of du.

You would use it, for example, after a verb such as helfen "to help" which requires the dative case.

  • Wem hilft er? Mir und dir.
  • "Whom does he help? Me and you."

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aeronautix

Would the phrase "mir und du" only be able to exist in a compound sentence, such as "Er hilft (mir und du) hilfst mir"? Can "mir und du" exist in any other way?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

That’s right.

Since the two words don’t have the same case, mir und du can’t be a single unit.

A bit like, say, “him and I”, which could exist as part of “she sees him and I see you” but can’t be a unit of its own.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/y0rkshire

The final sentence is incomplete, giving a spurious appearance of support for the original phrase: "Whom does he help? He helps me and (he helps) you" The firm contention remains that the only correct rendering is "you and I"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdwinColeSpencer

"me" is the objective first person. Is not "mich" the objective first person equivalent? "Ich" equals "I", not "me". I feel as though we have become so used to the incorrect usage of the word "me" (example: Me and my friends went to the mall) that now we put "me" in the place where "I" belongs. So I think "me and you" should rightly be translated either "mich und dich" or "mir und dir". And if that is more advanced than the place on the tree, then change the question: "I, you"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kate_Joy

It is really nice to come across someone who 'suffers' this. I suspect it may become a change in grammar, eventually. "Me and me friends are going out",- oh, dear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

“Me and my friends are going out” is already what is most natural for a large number of native speakers. The change in grammar has already occurred l


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CMTinPHX

Most Natural <> Correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robbadob

That's more a question of prescriptivism vs. descriptivism. For example, something like "I am me" is already accepted as standard in many dialects, with "I am I" falling out of fashion in those dialects; "you and I" seems to be going a similar way, be it to a lesser degree.
[2019/04/01]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/townsperson4o4

If you think an academic's definition of correct speech is more important than speaking to be understood then why are you even learning a new language?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAnlageIV

townsperson, you're an idiot if you think that learning and practicing proper grammar isn't necessary when learning a language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TimberJM

This isn't about speaking like a grammarian. It's about speaking like a competent 2nd grader.

Okay, okay, I'm being too tough.

Competent 3rd grader.

And this isn't about English rules either. My grandparents were German, French, English speakers (Austrian natives) and they knew proper du v. mich.

This is either an error or an intentional dumb-down for Americans. Either way, it deserves correction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Izaak384161

Wouldn't it be "mich und du" oder "Mir und du"? "Ich und du" means "I and you" which is not proper English. The proper way is "[Other persons name] and I". Is this not the case in German?


[deactivated user]

    Yeah I used mich und du and it said it was wrong. I am just starting to learn German but I am pretty sure that a previous example used "mich und du" as well when I used "Ich und du" and I had that one wrong


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/monkey_47

    "Ich und du" should not be the correct answer! "me" can never be the subject of a grammatically correct sentence, just like "ich" couldn't be the object. It's sad to see Duolingo perpetuating a mistake many native speakers make, too.

    me = mich, mir

    I = ich


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TerranExpression

    In my lesson we are to translate mich und dich, which is clearly the accusative and must be me and you, the accusative in English. Whether the speaker mentions the other first is a stylistic choice. Usually the other is first: John will go with you and me. But it's a matter of choice. But if there are any non-native speakers of English reading I would recomend you and me in preference to me and you. But it's not a set in stone thing. And to check for you and I versus you and me, take the "you and" out. Whichever of I or me still makes sense in that sentance is the one you should use.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAnlageIV

    "Whether the speaker mentions the other first is a stylistic choice."

    WRONG!!!! It is a grammatical choice and it is always wrong to list yourself before others. This isn't up for debate.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DBlomgren2

    Please correct this translation to "mich und dich" (accusative case) or "mir und dir" (dative case). I was using the word bank and couldn't choose the correct translation.

    Yes, English speakers colloquially use "me and you" for the nominative, but let's not teach them that's right. It make grammar more confusing later.

    Comparing incorrect English grammar to correct German grammar = confusing.

    If I had my druthers, I would also change it to "you and me."

    Maybe Duo needs an English course for English speakers!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElleThomas5

    I and me are the same?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAnlageIV

    No, not in the slightest. The devs at Duolingo got it wrong.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lesliedawne

    It is irritating that in the English-learning-German course, Duolingo perpetuates the bad grammar of "me and you" - (which one certainly does hear in spoken English), but in the German-learning-English course disallows "wegen mir" (in favor of "wegen meiner" or "meinetwegen").


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pavel332838

    A lot of comments requesting correction. You and I ---> Ich und du. Why no correction yet? Part of learning a new language is not using mangled English as a starting point.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andi312975

    Der Esel nennt sich immer zuerst!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/moni_9185

    Das hab ich auch gedacht! Ich hau mich weg eyyy


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nathan306842

    Dont write me and you in english then expect me to change it to you and I.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/7Us91

    I said Mich und du. Ouch me


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Explorer56

    So ich can mean "I" and "me"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    Yes.

    The rules for case assignment are no longer the same in German and English.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CMTinPHX

    No.

    I, like ich, is nominative.

    Me, like mich and mir, is objective.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAnlageIV

    No, the rules for case assignment are EXACTLY the same in English and German. Ich is nominative and can ONLY mean I. Mich is accusative and is translated to me. Mir is dative, which is present but unseen in English, and ist translated as either me or to me.

    You should not be giving out bad information.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    Why dost thou use the accusative plural "you" to me, though I am but one person? Should it not be nominative "ye", if thou wouldst be polite?

    But thou mayst call me "thou".


    More seriously:

    If someone pointed to a picture of you as a child (where they didn't recognise you) and asked, "who is that on the picture?", what would you say?

    • That am I.
    • That is I.
    • That's me.

    And another question: if you are on the phone, which would you be most likely to say:

    • Hello, Tom. It is I, Bernard.
    • Hello, Tom. 'tis I, Bernard.
    • Hi Tom. It's me, Bernard.

    If you would really use nominative "I" in those cases, I'd be curious to know how old you are and where you grew up. Honest question, because I don't think I know anybody who would naturally use the nominative there in English.

    Does using "whom" also come naturally to you? (Again, honest question.) And if so, have you used "whom" since you were a child, or only once you started school?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAnlageIV

    "If someone pointed to a picture of you as a child (where they didn't recognise you) and asked, "who is that on the picture?", what would you say?"

    I would say "That is I." This is very basic grammar. I'm sorry you couldn't pass the first grade.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sadhttp_3rror

    So...does Ich mean Me/I or am I getting something wrong


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SimJ12

    I said "ich und sie" and it said it was correct


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cTrn622170

    here the app understands that you said "ich und Sie" which is still correct because "Sie" with the capital S means "You" when you shows respect and is distinguished with "sie" as She.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wingtsuninja

    It told me "mich und euch". We haven't even run into those words yet!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/az_p
    Mod

      Sometimes Duo will show you another accepted translation. It doesn't mean it's the only one! The "recommended" translation is always at the top of the discussion page, if you're curious.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ROJAN849603

      Mich und du. Is it correct?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      No, it is not -- the two pronouns are in different cases.

      It would be like "him and she" -- there's no possible situation where that makes grammatical sense; it can't be a subject or an object.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StefanieSt5

      You and i, is the correct answer.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      No, it's not the correct answer (implying that there is only one).

      It's not even a correct answer.

      "You and I" (with capitalised I) would be correct.

      But not as a translation into German of "me and you".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/louis508363

      Is this not du und ich


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/oismelly

      Shouldn't it be mir und du.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      No - things joined by und have to be in the same case, so you can't have dative mir and nominative du together like that.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/roo_0m

      I am use to saying meine, doesn't that also mean me or does it mean my..


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      meine means "my" (when used before a feminine or plural noun, e.g. meine Katze oder meine Kinder "my cat, my children").


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stedwesd

      Mich und ihnen?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      Those don't have the same case (mich is accusative, ihnen is dative) so they can't be joined with und.

      Also, ihnen is "them", not "you" -- perhaps you were looking for Ihnen (capitalised)?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sairamkuma

      According to english, to represent you in subject it is "I" and if u want to represent yourself in object it should be "me". Please think about it


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DawidBarte

      "Mir und du" apparently wasn't acceptable...to the comments I go.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      "Mir und du" apparently wasn't acceptable

      Indeed. mir (dative) and du (nominative) are not in the same case, and cannot be joined with und.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LaurenLamp4

      Correct English is You and I (never say I and you). However in slang its cimmon to say "me and you." So i am confused - is this proper German, slang, or slang English?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      In German, it's considered more polite to put the "I / me" at the end. But that's a style issue, not a grammar issue.

      So both du und ich and ich und du are grammatically correct, but the first one is considered the polite version.

      As for whether "me and you" / "you and me" is correct in English, that depends on whom you ask. Language changes, and certain things that used to be considered wrong slowly become acceptable, though usually not to all people at once.

      For example, using "who" instead of "whom" is now widely acceptable, though traditionalists will still say it's "simply wrong".

      Using "me" as the default pronoun (with "I" only used when it is the entire subject of a verb) is something that this course considers acceptable, while others (still) consider it "bad English".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cari643143

      This is the best


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TimberJM

      Bad, bad grammar. The answer should be "You and I." In fact, the question should be "Du und ich." Furthermore, the answer of "ich und du" is totally wrong. Shouldn't it be "mich und ich" if we're translating literally?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      mich und dich is accepted as well as ich und du.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SiddharthP487769

      Its given mir in german for me and at the same time it's saying that I'm wrong


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      Its given

      I guess you read that in the hints. The hints never "give" an answer or "suggest" or "recommend" anything.

      Don't blame the hints if you get an answer wrong.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Airi_Asami

      How can ich (I) be me? ;-;


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rick755847

      Multiple right answers appear to be disregarded. Considering the comments this seems like a bit of a mess of a question. Quite shocking to see it hasn't been revisited in the two years since it was created.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/brendanmulv

      This should be 'du und ich'. No German native would said 'ich und du' ever!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/banana_kate

      i said mir und du and i got it wrong. what's the difference between mir and ich; i thought ich was i


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      i said mir und du and i got it wrong.

      Yes - mir is dative but du is nominative. You can't combine the two with und.

      Either mir und dir / mich und dich / du und ich -- but the two have to be in the same case.

      English "you" can be subject or object, but in German, you have to distinguish the two.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MotleyMom

      I translated "du und Ich," which should be correct. If it wanted "Ich und du" and the response, the English portion should have been "you and me."


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julian434481

      Me and you is mein und dein


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      Me and you is mein und dein

      Eh? No.

      mein and dein are "my" and "your", e.g. mein Buch "my book", dein Vater "your father".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kate_Joy

      For new learners, quite a few helpful but sometimes accidentally misleading entries appear on this page. Please would you consider putting out the information we need, as this is less accessible on the Android app. I am thinking of, say, a comparison lesson. For instance, is 'mir und dir' (to) me and (to) you? All the different entries are confusing me and this is a pretty central issue. Or should I sit tight for the course to unravel this, please.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

      is 'mir und dir' (to) me and (to) you?

      Basically yes.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kate_Joy

      I have just come across 'Between you and me/Oxford Dictionaries'. This explains how e.g. prepositions can change I/me in English. It seems this is similar in German. By the way, I can only envisage 'I and you' in spoken English because without the right pauses it would usually sound so very odd and, most often, impolite. It would still be decidedly unusual!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tracey_morgan

      The phrase starts with me and not Me, so is not even the opening of a sentence. Why, then, do you leap to the conclusion that it is "a classical error". Why is it "safe to assume" it's the subject? "Hey, Duo, Terraling posted a picture of ME AND YOU at a party."


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tracey_morgan

      huh? Voted down? "me + you" = "us" (cf. "Me and you" = "Us"). Unless you think that the word "us" is intrinsically ungrammatical (in which case you are weird) how can you dismiss "me and you" in this way?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAnlageIV

      You missed the point. It is incorrect to put me first in that phrase. "you and me" is correct. "me and you" is not. Never is.

      On top of all that, ich is nominative and can ONLY be translated to English as I.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/timfreedomtim

      Why is everyone saying it is incorrect in English? This isnt English you are learning, is it?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BernardAnlageIV

      It's an incorrect translation from the German to English, because it uses the wrong case.

      It is also grammatically incorrect. You wouldn't say "Me and you went to the park." It would be "You and I went to the park." Likewise, in German you wouldn't say "Ich und du sind zum Park gegangen." Rather, you would say "Du und ich sind zum Park gegangen."

      Both the words used and the order in which they would be used were incorrect in English and the word order was incorrect in German.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DBlomgren2

      Hi, Tim,

      First, in spoken English we often use incorrect grammar and vocabulary. Examples: 1. Me and Joe are goin' fishin'. 2a. You told Joe and I we could go. 2b. She's nice to me and Joe. 3. I like to lay in my bed. 4. One of the things I like are the points. 5. Between you and I, this don't matter. (2 mistakes!) 6. I've never drank so much in my life. 7. I like to eat healthy food.

      When we learn another language, bad grammar and vocabulary can be a hindrance.

      Second, the English is "wrong" because in standard English, we're supposed to name another person before ourselves, as in: John and I got married. Not "I and John" or "Me and John." She's nice to Joe and me. Not "me and Joe."

      Third, the translation is wrong because "me" should never be translated as "ich." "I" always means "ich," and "me" means either "mich" or "mir."

      Learn German in just 5 minutes a day. For free.