"Nobody else"

Translation:Niemand anderes

March 17, 2013

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[deactivated user]

    Hello - could someone explain to me why Ander- ends in 'es' in this instance? Thanks!



    Niemand anderes is anderes if we do not know the gender.

    For masculine or feminine groups can be used niemand anderer or andere respecrively.



    I too got this wrong. I believe it is "anderes" and not "anders" because you would say "es ist niemand anderES," the -es being necessary because you are talking about "es," or neuter third person. In the phrase "niemand anderes" it is a bit more confusing because there is no "es" to give the gender away, it is merely assumed.


    In March 20 I got Niemand anderS accepted...


    But what if nobody else is the subject of the sentence?

    • 2730

    Could a native speaker please explain the logic here? I thought the default gender for unspecified people was masculine (keiner ist ...) while for inanimate object it is neuter (Noch eines; Keines ist ...). But that would imply "Niemand anderer", not "Niemand anderes" in this example.
    So, what gives?


    This is my exact question. I'm glad I'm not the only one confused!


    According to a detail explanation in the forum the default gender for no people is actually none.
    If I understand the logic behind fhe default gender is masculine if we are talking about some people and neuter (none) if we are talking about group of no people.

    Women (nothing else) = feminine
    Men (and other) = masculine
    No people = no gender = neuter
    Undecided = masculine



    Another explanation is that the gender groups all go around the danger and sex.

    1/ is there a man? = DANGER = the sentence must warn the fellow (man or woman) that theres someone in the group who can rape or ar least punch you in the face
    2/ is there a woman int the group? = SEX & safety = the sentence is about to inform that there's no danger and sex possible
    NN/ no man no woman = no danger no sex = nothing interesting = no gender = neuter gender


    That sounds like a lot of nonsense. “No gender” does not exist. And niemand and jemand work the same: niemand anderes, jemand anderes.

    • 2730

    But why neuter then, if we are talking about people, not things?
    As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, my intuition is partly informed by my fisrt language, Russian, which also has three genders and also defaults to the masculine when talking about people of unspecified gender. But an exact analogue of this expression in Russian would be equivalent to "Niemand anderer" -- and for the reason I have just underlined.


    I saw you asked the same question 2 months ago. Wondering no one cleared your doubts as yet? I too have the same question. I spent whole day looking for an answer but nothing to my satisfaction.

    • 2730

    More like 3 years ago ;-) Still no meaningful answer...


    Look through the comments. I have given an answer in the meantime.


    Native speakers like MonikaEggers can shed more light. Also request mizinamo to have a few comments here. I think that certainly put an end to the dilemma- one way or the other.


    Why keiner anderer is not true?


    As a native speaker I don’t know why, I can just tell you we do say Niemand anderes, jemand anderes - maybe because the niemand or jemand already sufficiently tells us it’s about people, not things.

    Niemand anderer, jemand anderer works fine, too. I think it’s a bit less common, but that could vary by country/region.


    so why do we put anderes after Niemand in Niemand anderes. Anderes is neuter whereas it should be anderer as a default.


    Look for one of my newer comments.


    This doesn't help answer why it's 'anderes' vs. 'anderer' - the only examples for Niemand are followed by 'anderer' or 'anderem'/'anderen'.


    Why not keiner, and if that's acceptable, would it still be anderes, or would there be a different ending?


    Kein anderer should be accepted.

    Kein anderes would be wrong (it means nothing else, referring to some specific neutral object.)

    Keiner sonst should be accepted.


    kein anderer also means nobody else


    Kein anderer = no other .... not always used in the same way as nobody else


    It means no one else. I think it should be accepted.


    I didn't necessarily say it shouldn't be accepted.


    Everyone is asking the same question, why anderes and not anderer, no one appears to know :(.


    Is "sonst Niemand" correct too?


    Could someone pl explain why the neuter form of anderer is used here?


    Could "keiner sonst" or "sonst keiner" be acceptable?

    • 3096

    "Niemand sonst" is accepted; "keiner sonst" and "sonst keiner?" should be accepted


    Earlier on in Duo I saw "Keiner sonst" as meaning nobody else. So why isn't it accepted now? In the dictionary Keiner is defined as nobody or no one. Sonst means else or otherwise. Therefore keiner sonst should be fine.


    "Keiner anderes" should be acceptable?!


    no, that doesn't work


    Fehrerdef Your input is excellent and I have learnt a great deal from your explanations. Thank you. S-P


    you're welcome


    Because it mixes genders. "keiner" is masculine, "anderes" is neuter.


    so then why Niemand anderes is correct? why is anderes correct anyways because we are talking about people, so it should be anderer?-the default

    and going by gender logic, why is keiner anderer incorrect?


    Languages are never logical in the mathematical sense. Those are two different construction.
    "anderer" can act like a noun. Like a noun it can be qualified by articles, adjectives and forms of "kein". In this case "kein" needs to be inflected to match gender, case and number of "anderer". Examples are "kein anderer", "keine andere", "kein anderes", "keinen anderen" ...

    On the other hand, "keiner" and "niemand" can act as a noun. In this case "niemand" (it doesn't work with "keiner"!) can take a postponed "anderes" with it. It is always used in this neuter form. You can explain this by noting that "niemand" does not have any specific gender (whereas "keiner" and its forms do).

    The difference between "kein anderer" and "niemand anderes" is that in the first case the "anderer" is the "center" that determines the gender, and in the first case this is the (genderless) "niemand".


    It's just wrong.


    I echo rebeccaehughes - how do you know when to use which of the four cases?


    I would say the use of the neuter form here is similar to using 'das' for generic 'that' or 'es' for generic 'it'. When there is no explicit gender, go for neuter. :)


    I thought the rule was when there is no explicit gender, go for masculine.


    I just have to say to everyone....keep asking questions. I have learnt more from your comments than from any other social media platform. Thank you.



    Apparently it's just the way it is said. Don't break your head asking why is it not anderes, anders, andere or whatnot. I would tell you to just understand the meaning and learn it until you say it without thinking. I heard some advice from a polyglot long ago and it stuck with me: "don't ask why, just learn"


    Could "Niemand noch" be the correct answer?


    Well, it isn't accepted. I made the little green owl cry!


    Niemand noch is wrong. (I’m a native speaker.)

    [deactivated user]

      I also wonder why it is not accepted. The drop-down list for possible German translations includes "noch". I hesitate to report it, because there could be some perfectly good reason why it is not accepted as correct.

      • 2730

      Well, I am not a German speaker, just a fellow learner, but "Niemand noch" strikes me as wrong on two levels:
      1. The word order. E.g. "something else" (as in "in addition", not "something different") ="noch anderes" while "another one" (as a request for e.g. another beer) is "noch eines". Based on these examples, putting noch at the end strikes me as odd.
      2. "Noch" really means "still", not "else". So, if anything "noch niemand" would probably mean "still nobody?" in German.

      A disclamer: My intuition is informed by my first language, Russian, which appears to have an exact match to German "noch"="ещё". You would not be able to use "ещё" in this sentence in Russian, and hence my strong suspicion about the inapplicability of "noch" in German. Naturally, this may be completely wrong.


      Kein has to do with quantity - in your example, "no other." "Niemand" is "no one." I got this one right but used "anderes" just because that is how i've always heard it. Idk why that is what it is, though, and was hoping to find an answer here.

      I was wondering if "niemand anders" and "niemand anderes" are the same? Is the e just cut to make it easier? I feel like I hear both.


      Niemand anderes=Keiner sonst. You accepted the second?


      why Niemand anderes is correct? why is anderes correct anyways because we are talking about people, so it should be anderer?-the default


      Have a look at one of my newer comments.


      why keiner ander not accpted


      Because it's wrong. Kein anderer would work.

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