"Those are small."

Translation:Ceux-là sont petits.

March 18, 2013

37 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/miix
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why not 'ceux sont petits' ?

June 8, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/AnnaTall

Deep deep and scary jungle of celless ceux :)

September 16, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/messerm

An explorer I am, and heartened for recognition (thanks to your perspective!!).

June 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/growan

Am I right in saying then that "Ce sont petits" COULD mean those are small (or these are small) but that "Ceux-là sont petits" is just more precise?

August 15, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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No, that does not work. "ce sont" is followed by (modifier +) noun, no adjective.

So, these are small = ceux-ci sont petits and those are small = ceux-là sont petits

  • feminine versions: celles-ci or celles-là sont petites
August 16, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/duogm

Does "ceux sont petits" mean different.

June 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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"ceux sont petits" is incorrect. You need "ceux-ci sont" to translate "these are" or "ceux-là sont" to translate "those are".

You can also translate "these/those are" to "celles-ci/celles-là sont".

The only construction where "celui/celle/ceux/celles" can be used without their suffixes is when they are followed by "de" or "que":

  • celui de mon frère est bleu = my brother's (one) is blue
  • c'est celle de ma mère = it is my mother's (one)
  • ce sont ceux que je porte = they are these/those (the ones) I am wearing
  • voici celles que j'ai achetées = here are these/those (the ones) I have bought.
June 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/growan

Right, I think I get you. So you can't say "C'est petit" or "Ce sont petits", because "petit/s" is an adjective?

August 16, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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Yes, the singular form works: "c'est petit" = it is / this is small. I edited the above comment accordingly.

August 17, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/duogm

@sitesurf, But you just wrote and duolingo says too that c'est can't be used with an adjective or adverb.

June 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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"c'est petit" is as concrete as "this is small" or "that is small" or "it is small", when you comment on something with a demonstrative or a personal pronoun.

"il fait chaud, il fait froid, il est nécessaire, il faut, il pleut, il est cinq heures"... just like "it is hot, it is cold, it is necessary, it is raining, it is five o'clock..." have "il/it" not representing anyone or anything.

June 23, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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Yes, it can:

  • c'est petit = this/that/it is small
  • c'est souvent = this/that/it is often
June 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/duogm

@sitesurf,

"Yes, it can:

<pre>c'est petit = this/that/it is small" </pre>

Here, is Ce referring to a concrete entity or just an imaginary entity like "Il " in "Il faut manger- It is necessary to eat","il fait chaude- It is hot".

June 22, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/buffalump21
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Great explanation Sitesurf! Thanks again :-)

November 23, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/dapetras

why is it so common to have these suffixes here when they are rarely used with 'ce' or 'cette'?

March 18, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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they are indeed used with "ce" or "cette" as well:

  • ce jour-là (that day in the past)
  • cette nuit-ci (tonight)
March 18, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/aucunLien
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as implied in sitesurf's answer, note that ce/cette are articles, not pronouns. Well 'ce' can also be a pronoun, in which case 'ceci' and 'cela' are the variations you were looking for. Or maybe what you were looking for is celui/celle, the true singular of ceux/celles. They too get ci-ça'd: celui-ci, celui-là, celle-ci, celle-là.

August 10, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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"ce, cet, cette and ces" are demonstrative adjectives

"ce, c', ceci, cela, celui-ci, celui-là, celle-ci, celle-la, ceux-ci, ceux-là" are demonstrative pronouns.

June 16, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Bellatrix86

So ceux-ci = these, ceux-là = those is what Duolingo teaches. But is it right to translate them so literally?
In my grammar book it's explaines that ceci and cela (and all their forms) are used for comparisons. Ceci refers to the first or closer thing, cela to the second or more distant.

If I have a sentence like this where I refer to only one thing wouldn't I use ceci?
Because I think it's like the German "diese" and "jene" and we would always use the first option first and then additionally the second (and a third... etc). If we needed only one pronoun we would not get to the second option. Only ever the first.

Okay, maybe there was another sentence preceding this one and it had ceci in it and that's why now we need cela. But we can't know so Duo should at least accept both.

Or did I get this whole thing wrong?

February 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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It is mostly a matter of degree of emphasis:

  • c'est mon stylo = it is my pen

  • ceci est mon stylo = this is my pen

  • cela/ça ne coûte pas cher = that does not cost much

  • ceci est rouge mais cela est vert = this is red but that is green

  • celui-ci est mon stylo et celui-là est le tien = this one is my pen and that one is yours

February 28, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/AnnaTall

as I said, it's a jungle, albeit very beautiful! :)

February 28, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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;-)

February 28, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Bellatrix86

Oh my, thanks for this!
This post https://www.duolingo.com/comment/2036883 just reminded me that I probably should stop worrying about all these rules and just use what sounds best. And here we have a perfect example.

March 1, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/srh1056
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After reading all the comments, I still do not understand why "Ceux sont petits" is not correct.

October 19, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/PatrickJaye

@heller5tein

The reason that "ceux sont petits" is not correct is that "ceux" can not stand alone.

"Ceux" (and "celui", "celle", "celles") must be followed by a relative pronoun, a preposition or (as in this case) a demonstrative suffix - "ci" or "la".

Checkout link for more information on demonstrative pronouns.

http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/pronouns_demonstrative.htm

October 20, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Andrew48

That is not always correct. When "ceux" follows a mention of what noun it is replacing, it can stand alone, since it is clear what it is referring to. It could be that the rules are more complicated than that, and that rules only applies in certain cases, but I can say for sure that I have seen "ceux" standing alone (outside of colloquial speech).

February 22, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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"ceux" can live without -ci or -là in specific cases:

  • ceux de (possessive)
  • ceux qui (these/those who/which/that)
  • ceux que (these/those whom/which/that).

Examples:

  • ces livres sont ceux de ma fille
  • ces hommes sont ceux qui sont venus hier
  • ces livres sont ceux que j'aime le plus
  • ces livres sont ceux qui me plaisent le plus
  • ces hommes sont ceux que j'ai vus hier

But "ceux" cannot stand alone as a subject.

March 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Andrew48

That clears it up. Thanks Sitesurf! Your answers are very helpful, and they always manage to remain more concise than my own....

March 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/PatrickJaye

@Sitesurf

Thanks for that although that doesn't contradict my original point which was that "ceux" if not followed by a demonstrative suffix must be followed by either a preposition or a relative pronoun.

March 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf
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Agreed, of course!

March 11, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/PatrickJaye

@Andrew48

Well I suppose it is possible that Laura Lawless is wrong ;)

If you come across any counter examples from a reputable source it would be interesting to have a look at them.

March 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Nescio24

Can we say "Cela sont petits?"

August 4, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/srh1056
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No, because "cela" is singular and "sont petits" is plural

September 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Nescio24

Do you know if there is a plural form of ceci and cela?

September 7, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/srh1056
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Masculine plurals: Ceux-ci, ceux-là, Feminine plurals: celles-ci, celles-là

September 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Nescio24

But these are the plural forms of celui-ci, celui-là, celle-ci and celle-là.

September 8, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Lawrencium103

What is happening?!

November 5, 2018
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