"Some girls read some books."

Translation:Alcune ragazze leggono dei libri.

March 18, 2013

61 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sovlios

how can one tell the diffrences between alcuna, dei and qualche? when do you use which?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Borgsdottir

"alcuni/alcune" and "qualche" is only used with countable nouns, and "dei" with uncountable nouns (sugar, coffee, water, milk...) For example: "I want some water". We can't say "Io voglio qualche acqua", only "Io voglio dell'acqua".

"qualche" is "purposely ambiguous and implies a small, unspecified quantity that could even be just one." We use it to be more vague about the quantity. "alcuni/alcune" is used to be more clearly plural. "qualche" is always followed by the word it modifies, while "alcuni/alcune" can stand alone.

Also, when asking a question we use "qualche" or "dei", never "alcuni/alcune". "Conosci qualche buon ristorante?" "Conosci dei buoni ristoranti?"

https://italian.yabla.com/lessons.php?lesson_id=356

http://blogs.transparent.com/italian/qualche-alcuni-o-dei/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TrevorAcciaio

You are wrong according what I am seeing. The accepted translation is showing as "Alcune ragazze leggono dei libri." DEI LIBRI. Books are countable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Borgsdottir

You are right, thank you for correcting me. I can't believe I overlooked this.

I did more research now and I've found that "dei" can be used both with countable and uncountable nouns. With countable nouns, we use plural forms "dei", "delle", "degli". With uncountable nouns, we use singular forms "del", "dello", "della", "dell'".

Source: Modern Italian Grammar: A Practical Guide (chapter 11.6.) Link - https://books.google.ba/books?id=PEGAAgAAQBAJ&lpg=PT419&ots=qKA1MpeJhX&dq=dei%20italian%20countable%20nouns&hl=hr&pg=PT419#v=onepage&q=dei%20italian%20countable%20nouns&f=false


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnWheatl6

So why did i lose a heart when i put "Delle ragazze leggono dei libri"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/0b3

Because Duolingo is wrong according to the native speaker in bed beside me. Apparently they're largely interchangeable, but to their ear:

<h1>"delle" fits most naturally to a group of girls (which does not exclude other groups)—"there are some girls here and some over there"</h1> <h1>"alcune" carries a more exclusive meaning—"some girls read; others do not"</h1>

I'm told this isnt a fast rule, merely a feeling. The words in this sentence and any others, I'm told, are interchangeable.

It's possible Duolingo follow this same feeling for the words and that this is one of those frustrating phrases where they expect you to translate without a complete context. "Some girls read some (a handful of) books (while the rest read none)" is perhaps the most natural interpretation of this sentence and one that fits the alcune/delle nuance. That doesn't exclude other meanings, however, and Duolingo oughtn't have marked you wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jobie4

Good question. I used delle, too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/t_s_c

Why can't you say 'delle ragazze'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jgbachand

That would be my question, since "some books" is "dei libri"...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Melnikovnv

Why does the sentence "Alcune ragazze leggono alcune libri" not accepted? It is completely valid and has to be added.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NicolaiKar3

should be 'alcune ragazze leggono alcuni libri', no?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UbwFYffR

Both "Alcune ragazze leggono alcune libri" and ""Alcune ragazze leggono alcuni libri" are still not accepted by DL on 2020 October 2, nonostante che ragazze e libri sono è numerabile!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TitoB.Yoto

That's what I wrote and it was marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AJ_2097

Accepted "....alcuni libri" - 22/7/20


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris156084

not accepted 9/4/20


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ziggKogg

When should you use "qualche" and when should you use "alcune"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmseiple

They can both mean "some" or "a few." When used this way, the only difference is that "qualche" always takes the singular, even when it refers to more than one thing, so you could say "alcune ragazze," but to say the same thing with "qualche," you use the singular "qualche ragazza."


[deactivated user]

    It is beggining to look, to me at least, as if we have the same in Spanish. Take the expression: "Cualquier niño entiende esto, es tan fácil." Where "Cualquier" could be translated into English as "any".: "Any child understands this, it's so easy."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dmmaus

    I would like to understand this better too.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gregers212

    So when you are using Qualche, you use the singular? Even if the English translation is some girls? I got it wrong when I wrote "qualche ragazze"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marziotta

    "Qualche ragazza" must be definitely with singular, but it means 2 or more. "Some girls"

    It's pretty complicate I know. I often do the opposite mistake in English, and write "some girl", such a shame. :(


    [deactivated user]

      Are you a native speaker? Could you develop this a bit? I'd certainly appreciate it!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xaviergladwinner

      Thank you for that!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DonPeele

      Now qualche, dei and alcune all refer to some.There must be sone distinction....


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NicolaiKar3

      Why is 'alcune ragazze leggono alcuni libri' not accepted?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paul548858

      T´was accepted 02.05.20


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/diania

      Qualche is used with a singular noun and Alcuni/Alcune with a plural noun. http://blogs.transparent.com/italian/qualche-alcuni-o-dei/


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Melnikovnv

      Why does the sentence "Alcune ragazze leggono alcune libri" not accepted?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paul548858

      Must be alcuni libri, not alcune libri...


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Reefspal

      but the site is marking libri as incorrect and cites libro as correct


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

      Alcuni libri, but qualche libro


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Reefspal

      yes I understand that, my report was to say that my answer was word for word as given above using "libri" not "libro" in the answer, but then they marked my answer as wrong and gave libro as the correct answer..


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

      What did you use as the 'some' word before libri?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Reefspal

      I put - alcune ragazze leggono dei libri - which DL stated was wrong and stated that I should have put libro - but then gave the 'correct' answer as - alcune ragazze leggono dei libri - I know that qualche is followed by singular nouns, but in this instance I had used alcune and had not applied that rule to book/books having used dei.. Edit: For those who state hat I should have reported it/it is in the system - when I originally posted > 3 years ago - it was not THEN in the system and I did report it, I received an email accepting my report and noting it.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

      In which case, unless there was some typo there must be a missing answer in the database and you should have reported it.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmseiple

      "Alcune ragazze leggono dei libri" is in the system (it's the default translation, actually), so either there was a glitch or you had a typo somewhere.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/None881465

      Why do you need to use "ragazza" instead of "ragazze"?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chel451498

      It depends on the word you used for 'some'. Qualche, even if meaning more than 1 X, uses the single/non-plural noun --> Qualche ragazza = some girls

      With alcune/i you use the plural --> Alcune ragazze = some girls

      Others have posted more thorough explanations above.


      [deactivated user]

        I am not sure if this will help, but, in Spanish we have what seems to be the same arrangement and possibilities. We say "Cualquier muchacha lo hace." This could be translated as "No matter what girl...All girls... Each and every girl... does it." I have a feeling that "qualque" does not mean "some" bur rather "any". But I might be wrong!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eli290692

        I saw this comment from F. Formica:

        That's how the language works:

        Non ho alcun libro: I don't have any books (I have none) Non ho alcuni libri: I don't have some books (I might have many, but not some specific ones) Just like "any" in English, you can't use the singular in an affirmative sentence, but contrary to English you don't normally use it in the interrogative form either:

        Do you have any books?: Hai qualche libro? / Hai dei libri?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MABBY

        I remembered that a singular noun comes after "qualche", but was marked incorrect for "Qualche ragazza leggono qualche libro". They accepted "leggono dei libri" or "legge qualche libro" but surely "leggono" is the correct usage!??


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mmseiple

        Since "qualche ragazza" is singular, you need the singular verb "legge." Alcune ragazze leggono = Qualche ragazza legge.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VanessaSud

        It is correcting me that ragazze is girls when i have already answered ' ragazze ' ...!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luscinda

        Claims I am in error for translating 'books' as 'libri' because 'you used the plural libri instead of the singular 'libro'.' Of course I did!


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VanessaSud

        Is it supposed to be either qualche libro or alcune libri? I'm just wondering as a beginner, may be confused as it certainly seems an odd singular/plural rule to me???


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Monstruletz

        Correct solution: • Qualche ragazza legge alcuni libri.

        How is this answer correct? ragazza means one girl and the phrase is "Some girls read some books."?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VanessaSud

        It is a rule of grammar 'qualche' must always be followed by a singular noun. Qualche essentially means SOME. Alcuni is always followed by a plural noun. I guess qualche is always used to cover singular collective nouns e.g. qualche zucchero but need to check on that myself


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MauricioSucho

        The last noun in this sentence is definetly in the plural, libri


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

        Sure, and if you used alcuni or dei before it then it would be libri, but if you used qualche then it is libro. Read the comments if you want more detail.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/meandmyshadow0

        Why cant you use alcune, instead of dei.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paul548858

        you can use alcuni, not alcune


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeterWebbe3

        translation, some girls read of the books, some girls read some books


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/.Sheila1

        Surely thesr subtle nuances should be explained at the cery beginning of the exercise, or how else will we anwer correctly, unlessnwe have a grammar book to hand. Also, an awful lot of this is far too complex, when one is iust starting a language. Thank you anyway. S Knox


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ECCA1980

        In another example in this section "delle donne bevono tè verde" was accepted. So why isn't "delle ragazze leggono dei libri" accepted (Aug 3, 2020)


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanBerma

        I used delle ragazze and it was marked wrong. Why when dei libri was right?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanBerma

        So why was delle ragazze marked wrong?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/onlyonepinman

        I thought alcuna always took a singular noun?

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