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"In the evening, Duo drinks wine from France with friends in his castle."

Translation:Am Abend trinkt Duo mit Freunden in seinem Schloss Wein aus Frankreich.

January 10, 2018

44 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Valaraukarsbane

Sentences like this in the review REALLY frustrate me, because there's no explanation of them available. I do not understand German sentence order, and I'm not going to magically start because Duo keeps pounding away at throwing super complicated sentences at me. It makes this experience one of pure frustration.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Revoltution

oh but you wull if you just keep practicing. 1'000 more times and you'll know it :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WitchDuck

Can the "mit Freunden", "in seinem Schloss", and "Wein aus Frankreich" appear in a different order? For example, "Am Abend trinkt Duo Wein aus Frankreich mit Freunden in seinem Schloss."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lancebretthall

Rearranging them wouldn't technically be wrong, but a native would almost always put them in that order.

German follows what's called "time-manner-place", and elements are usually in that order:

  • time: am Abend
  • manner: mit Freunden
  • place: in seinem Schloss

(Then the direct object, Wein, goes last. Aus Frankreich follows Wein because it directly modifies it. The friends and castle aren't from France.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsnix

So, the "STOMP" (subject, time, object, manner, place) mnemonic that I learned recently is just wrong, then, and should be forgotten? The object (at least, a non-pronominal object) must always go after all adverbs/adverbial phrases?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flannery65

Yes, as soon as I saw this sentencee I thought, ah here is a Time-Manner-Place lesson. how did I remember that from 40 years ago!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephen83116

In theory it should be time-manner-place, but Duo is very inconsistent in following this rule!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fehrerdef
Mod
  • 349

This rule holds only for those averbial determinations that are directly adjacent. Thise who are extra at the beginning or at the end of the sentence don't count.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eshan943679

Does the direct object always naturally goes towards the end? I kept putting in seinem Schloss towards the end of the sentence because place is supposed to be at the end of the sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EmmettHoll

I love you, Lancebretthall, lol

Now if I can keep that in mind I'll be golden.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David-JB

Very helpful, thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arthur91x

Really interesting information! Thanks a lot for sharing I've always found this word arrangement quite complex.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ms_Spaatkauf

I have no trouble remembering 'time object manner' but I often can't decide which is the 'manner' - with his friends? in his castle? I also have seen it as 'time object manner place' and the 'object' confuses me further. Argh.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fehrerdef
Mod
  • 349

"in his castle" is a locality (place). "with friends" is the manner. "object" does not belong into this rule, because the rule is about the order of adverbial determinations and not about objects.
The complete rule in German is "TeKaMoLo", which stands for temporal (time), causal (reason), modal (manner), local (place).

Objects usually come before all these. But the given sentence does not have an object.

Btw., in English the "royal order of adverbs" is manner-place-(frequency)-time-(purpose).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CissieT03

Very helpful, thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Candace477729

But we've learned UM sieben Uhr, UM halb drei, UM Mitternacht--why on earth is this AM abend? My head is bruised from beating it against a wall!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tsnix

Well, the simple answer is that prepositions in any language are just what they are. They don’t always make consistent sense. Even in English, the examples you gave have the same pattern : at seven o’clock, at 2:30, at midnight, but in the evening.

I suppose a more specific answer might be that all the counter examples you gave are specific times, while “evening” (or “Abend”) is a longer period of time. I’m not going to say that that rule definitely holds across the board, but it might be at least part of the reason for the two different prepositions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

on Sunday, in July, at Christmas, ....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jd1251

I thought the same. Duolingo tells you in one of the dative (I think) lessons that word order can be changed around because the case is clear. Any help anyone?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cogges

That's what I put and it was marked wrong. It seemed logical to put the direct object right after the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SergioCFreire

Wow that one was tough, repeated it like 5 times. Word order in german is a real challenge. Got to keep studying it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lancebretthall

German got a tiny bit easier for me when my high school German teacher insisted that German is a VISE:

  • Verb
  • Is
  • Second
  • Entry

(For a statement!)

He also drilled it into me that German is TMP: time-manner-place (see my reply to WitchDuck above).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thkgk

It's totally easy, because all word orders are correct, if "trinkt" is in the second position. (Am Abend) (trinkt Duo) (mit Freunden) (in seinem Schloss) (Wein aus Frankreich). Okay, "Duo" should stand direct before or after the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CorryEngelbrecht

Easy for you doesn't mean easy for everyone. It was very difficult for me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nikitautiu

Warum ist "Am Abend trinkt Duo Wein aus Frankreich mit Freunden in seinem Schloss" nicht richtig?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatriciaJH

The object, "Wein aus Frankreich" needs to come last.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Steve771485

Why is that? I don't recall any rule that says the direct object has to follow the other sentence elements.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eey91

Shouldnt "Abends, trinkt Duo mit Freunden in seinem Schloss Wein aus Frankreich" be accpeted as well?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RelakS2

Omg? I forget what Duo does with the wine by the time I reach this part of the sentence :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JonRussell2

This one is frustrating. I have “Am abend trinkt Duo Wein aus Frankreich mit Freunden in seinem Schloss”, and I have no idea why this is wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nova46
  • 2142

Check lancebretthall's comment at the top of the page.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lynneo

Thank you SO much, lancebretthall, for your excellent and clear explanation! I got it correct, the next time I got this exercise!! AND I know WHY now!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StevePrice451726

Why is this wrong? "Am Abend trinkt Duo mit seinem Freund in seinem Schloss Wein aus Frankreich."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Why is this wrong? "Am Abend trinkt Duo mit seinem Freund in seinem Schloss Wein aus Frankreich."

The English sentence has "with friends", not "with his friend".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Donna991881

I thought adverbials go in the order of "time, manner and place." Why isn't "in seinem Schloss" the last item? Why is "Wein aus Frankreich" the last item instead of following "trinkt"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fehrerdef
Mod
  • 349

Because "Wein aus Frankreich" is not an adverbial, but a simple accusative object (and "aus Frankreich" directly refers to "Wein". It is not defining where the action takes place. This is done by "in seinem Schloss").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexanderT889011

Most of the sentence was already written - incorrectly - and I could not change it. What gives?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesCatherine

too many words were missing "Am" "trinkt" etc


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatriciaJH

It's a bug where some of the tiles are hidden below the edge of the window. You may be able to scroll it down. I've reported it, with screenshots.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uqurkeles

I want to form this sentence as " Wein aus Frankreich trinkt Duo...." but I don't know that in which order I should put the rest. I have Am Abend, in seinem Schloss, mit Freunden. Plz help me out.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fehrerdef
Mod
  • 349

Starting the sentence with "Wein aus Frankreich" is very uncommon. This specifically stresses "Wein aus Frankreich" and you would only use it if you want to really emphasize it, e.g. when it is clear that Duo always drinks wine, but specifically the one from France is tied to a particular time of the day (very improbable).

But if you really want to do it, the rest of the adverbial determinations end up adjacent to one another. So they have to follow the "TeKaMoLo"-rule, which says "time before causality before modality before place". So it has to be "am Abend mit Freunden in seinem Schloss".

But you should rather follow the English sentence here and start the sentence with "Am Abend".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uqurkeles

Hey, thanks for explaining it to me. Actually the reason why I am using this kind of sentence is that I want to try new things in order to learn German properly. Also thanks for telling me that the sentence I want to use is very uncommon.

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