"you and me"
Translation:du und ich
It's the cases again:
You and I go home. = Du und ich gehen heim. (subject: nominative)
They help you and me. Sie helfen dir und mir. (obj.: dative)
He sees you and me. = Er sieht dich und mich. (dir. obj.: accusative)
du und mich cannot work as the first pronoun is in nominative and the second one in accusative.
I know that you're not claiming never to have heard someone say 'you and me' as the subject of a sentence. It's pretty common, actually. So common in fact that I would argue it is correct in English. Yes, 'you and I' would make more sense as I is always the subject when on its own, but the grammar of a language is not defined by what is taught, but by what is used. The majority uses 'you and me' as the subject, so it is correct according to modern English grammar.
Sincerely, someone who says 'you and I'.
It's nothing to do with majority usage. It's to do with the grammatical context. If you remove the 'you' part of the sentence, does it make sense? e.g. You and I are invited to dinner, you and me are invited to dinner -> I am invited to dinner, me am invited to dinner. He gave it to you and I, he gave it to you and me -> He gave it to I, he gave it to me.
No, the other person should reply "You and I [are]." The "are" is optional, but it will keep people from thinking that you said it wrong when you didn't. You'd use "I" because it would be the subject.
If the person asked "Whom is he taking to town?" Then you could answer "[He's taking] you and me." Again, the bracketed part is optional, but he'd be taking me, not taking I.
Technically, English works the exact same as German in this case.
In English, it's wrong to say 'You and me are going to the store,' because the subject, 'you and me' should in Subjective Case, but is in Mixed Subjective and Objective case. It's not as clear as "Du und mich gehen zum Laden," but it would be just as incorrect.
The confusion for English speakers is that English Subjective and Objective Case both use the same pronoun 'you'. We need to remember that in the sentence "I give you the book," you is in the Objective case even though it doesn't transform form. German's more explicit. "Ich gibt dir das Buch."
And as if that's not bad enough, German has two cases where we have only one. Our Objective Case maps to Accusative (Direct) and Dative (Indirect) in German.
Surely the translation should be "You and I". "You and me" would be "dich und mich" in German, wouldn't it?
Duolingo put this question in the Basics 1 lesson. "You and me" in English is either mixed Subjective/Objective case, or plain Objective case. Since we've not had Objective Case (either Accusative or Dative) yet, I think it was someone using bad English when they composed the test. This should be 'You and I" and the right answer should be "Du und ich." Regardless, it should flag "Du und Ich" as incorrect as "me" does not translate to "Ich". :3
They should accept "You and me" as a translation from the German, because it is so common (even if technically 'incorrect') in English to use "you and me" even as a subject of a sentence, but I strongly feel it should not give "you and me" and then ask you to translate it to German in the nominative. It will only confuse things later on when people start to learn that ich=I and mich=me.
If you're seeing a specific error you should report it, but "du und ich" and "dich und mich" should both be accepted. In other words, as long as the case for both pronouns matches (nominative and accusative, respectively) both pronouns in German are accepted. Accusative is accepted, but it is important that the case between the two pronouns matches. If “me” means “mich” to you, than “you” should mean “dich” or “euch”, also accusative.
"I know that you're not claiming never to have heard someone say 'you and me' as the subject of a sentence. It's pretty common, actually. "
I've heard it, but it's pretty rare. It's far more common for people to say "you and I" in the objective case when they should be saying "you and me." Regardless, it's a poor excuse to say that some people get it wrong so the software should get it wrong on purpose. Most English speakers get it right and it makes no sense for somebody learning a language to assume that the software wants the user to get it wrong on purpose.
The only things that this may accomplish are reinforcing improper English use in poor speakers, or frustrating language learners to the point that they give up because the software is wrong. It's very frustrating that the software gets this wrong repeatedly.
In other words, you are saying "your wrong but don't correct me because people say that everyday." Yes, people say that every day, but they're wrong. Something that teaches language should not teach people to misuse it "because everybody does it." People who say that "everybody does it" really mean that they do it, and they merely think that everybody does it.
I just realised that you replied to me, and I never noticed because it was down here in the ether. I actually signed that post off as 'someone who says you and I', didn't I?
Once upon a time it was wrong to say 'you and I', one would say 'ye and I'. Once upon a time, if you were familiar with someone you should never refer to them as 'you' though, you should refer to them as 'thee'. Why aren't we arguing that du und ich should be thou and I?
At what point does something common become correct? You say most people use 'you and I' correctly, but nearly everyone I've ever spoken to would say 'Looks like it's just you and me'.
It looks like when you say 'most people', you mean 'most people who know better', which is ridiculous and very elitist of you.
I suppose I will have to continue getting that sentence wrong. I will not translate the objective "me" with the nominative "I".
It's the same sort of thing as why we say, "the big brown box" and not "the brown big box". Logically they mean the same thing, but the underlying structure of the language places them in a certain order. So in both English and German it is more correct to say "You and I are friends" than to say "I and you are friends." "Between you and me" not "between me and you". Second person comes before first. Same with the third person "He and I are going there". "He gave it to John and me."
They don't quite mean the same thing and at times getting the order wrong for adjectives can change the meaning completely. Native speakers will never learn why we say "the big yellow school bus" because it's so instinctive that it's not the type of thing that teachers ever have to correct. But people who study English as a foreign language may have a unit of instruction on it.
There's a big difference between a man's black umbrella and a black man's umbrella for example.
Very interesting points made here. Never thought about the difference between the big yellow bus and the yellow big bus. As you said, no English speaker would say the latter, so we pick this grammatical rule up from birth. And I would expect German to be the same with this rule because after all English was derived from German, or so I was told.
Your question - what is the difference between "you and I (du und ich)" and "I and you (ich und du)" is a question of a simple etiquette. Common etiquette is to put other on first place, i.e. before yourself. If you are listing more people including yourslef, you always say "and I" the last.
Du is subjective and mir is dative. It depends upon how you plan to use those pronouns in a sentence. Example: You and I play = Du und ich spielen. : Father gives to you and me = Vater gibt dir und mir. Mir is the dative form of the first person pronoun meaning "to me." Dir is the dative form of the 2nd person pronoun meaning "to you."
When somebody asks in general whether "you and I" or "you and me" is correct, it's a sure bet that the person doesn't understand grammar. Neither is correct or incorrect by itself, but correct or incorrect in context.
Because of that, people who were constantly corrected and told to use "you and I" will often say things like "He gave the book to John and I." What they are missing is that you'd say "He gave the book to me" and an object doesn't change to a subject just because there are two of them. Likewise, you'd say "You and I went fishing" because you'd say "I went fishing," not because there's a pair of pronouns. You'd say "He gave the book to me" so you'd also say "He gave the book to you and me."
In English you say - "you and I", in nominative. Also you say - "to you and me", in dative. But to say - "you and me", in nominative - it's wrong.
The same thing is in German, so it is technically incorrect to say "you and me", but it all depends of the context. E.g. this is a correct sentence - YOU and I are working, and they see YOU and ME.
For this answer, Duo went and included some slang. You and I should be English nominative. You and I are stumped by this answer. To use you and me, a different case , either accusative or dative, is required. This answer bothered you and me. Duo will not change for you and me. I hope that helps.
It's not slang. It's improper English. I figured out why (posted elsewhere) and it has nothing to do with slang but with always expecting sentence fragments to be subjects, even when the context clearly makes it otherwise. You are unlikely to find any examples of "you and me" translated to "du und ich" in any complete sentence, nor will you find any examples where it expects you to translate something to "you and me went to the store" or anything like that. When I say unlikely, I really mean you won't find any, but since I haven't gone through every lesson, I'll leave some wiggle room.
Honestly you guys, I don't understand how so many people here can be of the opinion that 'you and me' is an incorrect translation of 'du und ich'. So many of you claim that you and me as the subject is improper, but what you're refusing to acknowledge is that this is how most people speak. If most English speakers say 'Jack and me are heading off', that doesn't make most English speakers wrong, that makes that the modern form of the statement.
If you're going to be arguing that the traditional way is the only proper way, then why aren't you arguing that people should use 'ye' as the subject form of you. 'Du und ich' should be 'ye and I'! Further, the traditional object case of 'it' is 'him'. Should I start saying 'I loved Timmy's painting so much I hung him up on the wall over there'.
Language changes, that doesn't make the people who use the modern forms wrong, it just makes you look silly for correcting people because you think English comes from a textbook rather than its speakers. Please don't be so petty.
So Ruals, you don't believe that if most English speakers say that (by the way, can you prove that most English speakers talk that way?), that they are wrong. Well guess again. Whosoever says that, he's saying it wrong.
Lets suppose that most people around you start wearing socks on their hands, instead of gloves. Than you come and say - well if the most poeple are doing it, that it is the right way to do it, and anybody who says it's wrong is... petty.
But "most" American English speakers do not say "'Jack and me are heading off...' Some do, but they are small in number... and that construction is more generally regarded as, at best, slangy or possibly idiomatic in some cases. The rest of us know that they actually mean "Jack and I are heading off," so we go with the flow and don't say anything.
No one is arguing that one is "the only proper" way. Yes, language changes. No, using a modern construction or a slangly/idiomatic variation isn't wrong if it is very common, and especially when it becomes the dominant usage pattern.
I'm actually fine with duolingo helping us with idioms and slang...
... but confusing it with normal construction doesn't help much.
I'm going to have to check this one with my native-German speaking-friends and relatives.
Do you have any evidence that most people speak that way? No? I didn't think so. That's because most people don't speak that way, and if they did, their second grade teacher would correct them. I have no idea where you live or where you are hearing that, but I live in the US where people seem to have the opposite problem. I constantly hear things on TV such as "he came to visit my husband and I." I wish people knew when to use "me," but "me" is being underused, not overused. I honestly can't recall the last time I heard anybody say something like 'Jack and me are heading off.'