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"Fuori città c'è un palazzo storico."

Translation:Outside the city there is a historic palace.

March 18, 2013

90 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carinofranco

"an" is typically used with words like hour and historic. I reported it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soglio

In US English, "a historic" is preferred because the "h" is pronounced.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerry-H

I'm a history student at grad school at an American university. We distinguish between "an historic" and "ahistoric." When speaking in class, we are careful not to say "a historic" because precision is necessary, and American culture has been infested with ahistoric information. In educated English, "an historic" is preferred, but we recognize that "a historic" is commonly used, and equally defensible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MB1010

H is not always preceded by An; A hot coffee, A high fence, A huge bill, A hollow tree, A head start. and A history student.. etc


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ScouserDom

but they're not "silent" h's. (sorry about the apostrophe). Eg The P is silent (as in bath)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Altair0315

The P in which word(s)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erica900596

"a history student" is easier to say than 'a historic day" I think it depends where the emphasis is.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Serifini

Odd. I thought in the US people did not pronounce the initial H in words like "herb" whereas in the UK we do. I was surprised to be corrected when I wrote "an historic" because that is how we both write and pronounce it here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ColinDocke1

As it is in uk english


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Archangelica

Reporting it didn't work, because they just told me I made a typo when I said "an" historic :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carinofranco

I have not yet received confirmation from Dulongo that they have accepted my correction, so it may Still be in process.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Archangelica

Thankyou for the information! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gordon_gregory

It's now accepted (Dec 2013).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlisonClar302384

No, I'm afraid it isn't (2020)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ian851611

I disagree . Duo lingo ought to say this course is American English and if you want to speak it correctly then this not the place for you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/willem6

'an' is only used with certain pronunciation of the 'h'. 'hour' is pronounced with a silent h, so 'an hour'. 'historic' is pronounced with an audible 'h', so 'a historic something'. See also http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/a-historic-event-or-an-historic-event


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carinofranco

Yes, I agree with your comment about the audible or soft pronunciation of the h. However, use of the article a with historic and historical is a bit variable as some speakers pronounce them with a soft h with which the "an" is more appropriate. Note however that the same speakers usually pronounce history with a more voiced h and so would use the article a. Thanks for your comment.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/willem6

Agreed, it's a rather disputable case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carinofranco

I am reminded of my grandmother who would say as she shrugged her shoulders and put her hands together to conclude any discussion, "..eh...." and all was well.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/M.hdzmendoza

Not in this case because you can hear the H sound when pronouncing historical, unlike in the word hour , the first sound is a vowel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gordon_gregory

Many people don't pronounce the "h", but whole point of this discussion is that both pronunciations should be accepted. I'm not suggesting that people who answer "a historic castle" should be marked wrong and lose a heart, just that DL should also accept "an historic castle".

We're translating into English and those translations need to accept a variety of English usages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartinaNic136314

not in received English...you would be marked wrong at any decent English or American school


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marnie557199

Grazie, non è neccessaria per me di :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanCoope312550

I shall report it too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amsscalise

Yes but you don't use "an" with the word "historic" in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gordon_gregory

I am English and I do say "an historic moment". In the UK the way you speak can define your position in society. Some people, common criminals and car thieves and others who pronounce "historic" with a hard "haitch" (the letter H) say "a historic moment" or "a hotel", but posh people, or those who aspire to be, use "an". Listen to the queen (of England, are there others?), that's what she says and, without me being sarcastic, so do most educated speakers of UK English. Enjoy it, use "a" or "an", that's why we learn other languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/01nick1988

Gordon you sound like a bit of a snob. People speaking regional accented English (many of whom are highly educated thank you very much) would say 'a historic moment', because the h is there to be pronounced. Both 'a' and 'an' are acceptable depending on what kind of English you speak. Kindly refrain from making further ridiculous assumptions about people you've never met.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silkwarrior

I would advise anyone trying to learn English to NOT use the Queen as a model. The queen and some of her relatives are renowned in Britain for speaking with a somewhat particular almost other-worldy accent. This isn't a political point, just a language point. Some of the royals make me think of Radio Moscow announcers in the late 70s (I listened out of interest on SW as a kid) - they sounded like the poshest of posh English people that had never existed - a mystery to me where they got their accents from.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gordon_gregory

Hi Silkwarrior, Too true! The queen is not a good role model, for all sorts of reasons :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dadegroot

Umm, yes you do. Well in Australian English you do, unless you've been watching too much American TV.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michaela143747

It all depends on where you come from. The rule is that if one pronounces the 'h', as in historic, then it is correct to use 'a' (a historic). If you drop the 'h' and say 'istoric' (most certainly the Queen would never pronounce it like that, contrary to some of the misinformed opinions here), then you would say 'an'. So, use an before a word with a vowel SOUND, and use a before a word that starts with a consonant SOUND. :) Let the arguing being. :o) And, as further evidence, see here: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=a+historic%2Can+historic&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=18&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t4%3B%2Ca%20historic%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Ba%20historic%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BA%20historic%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BA%20Historic%3B%2Cc0%3B%3Ba%20Historic%3B%2Cc0%3B.t4%3B%2Can%20historic%3B%2Cc0%3B%2Cs0%3B%3Ban%20historic%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BAn%20Historic%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BAn%20historic%3B%2Cc0%3B%3Ban%20Historic%3B%2Cc0%3B%3BAN%20HISTORIC%3B%2Cc0


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pogodragon

To my British ears 'an historic' sounds old fashioned but it is not incorrect. I think either should be acceptable as an answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carinofranco

Ok, it is time to stop. I think I started this string,and it has been illuminating and interesting. However, let us not forget that we are trying to learn Italian, and not so much the finer points of English grammar. mi scusate


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michaela143747

You are right....but boy, this is my pet peeve. Drives me nuts.....lol. Just to flog this dead horse once more, the English grammar rule is to use 'a' before a consonant SOUND (e.g, history, heart, hotel) and an before a vowel SOUND (e.g., 'hour' where the consonant 'h' is not pronounced). However, you may live in a region where the consonant sound in words such as 'herb' (pronounced erb in many places) is dropped. In that case, the word starts with a vowel SOUND and is used with 'an'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JennaHO

Don't worry, this isn't about 'an' or 'a.' Just wondering, why isn't there an article before citta?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/michalru

I was wondering the same thing. Does anyone know?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/amsscalise

There is..."Fuori città c'è un palazzo storico." Un is the indefinite article :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JennaHO

I got that, but there is no article for city. There is only the one indefinite article which refers to the palace, not the city. Outside city...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eisalehi

I agree. I tried "outside of town," which is perfectly idiomatic English, but the translator rejected it. I figured that saying "Outside the town" would be taking liberties (no pun intended).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rhiannon637849

'An' historic palace is perfectly correct British English and should therefore be accepted and not deemed to be a 'typo.' You will hear both 'a' and 'an' in everyday spoken English but the correct form is 'an' historic/historical but 'a' history (e.g. A History of the English speaking Peoples). It is also 'an' hotel, although some people may find this, and the distinction, old fashioned or pedantic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fadgey

an historic ,a historic , both okay


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stampelito

Why no article for città?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarianoRossignol

"fuori città" è un binomio, si usa solo così


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wuduweard

I find it interesting that "mansion" is not accepted as a translation for "palazzo." Palace is more obviously a cognate, but palazzo is used for mansion also.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/C0kVebf7

'an historic palace' maybe old fashioned but it is nevertheless correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarah501993

in correct grammar you say an historic palace


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CittadinoDuo

at least duolingo's error is only a typo in this case and not marked wrong...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bron936856

I think I've been down this route before! "an historic..." or "a historic..." should both be acceptable! Don't get your knickers in a knot if Duolingo doesn't like it - it's only a learning tool find another one if you don't like it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlesPit19

And free no less!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gill546838

Correct use of English is AN historic... please stop correcting me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/judithrhod

Any English teacher will tell you that it is "an" before historic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vittorea

In this case it should read - an historic - as the H is not emphasised


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/luckylinguist

"Fuore città che un palazzo storico" is what I wrote and was marked correct, and with no suggestions. It seems quite different from the given answer "Fuori città c'è un palazzo storico" I am wondering why I 'got away with it'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MB1010

I have been getting a lot of wrong answers correct. I am reporting them with My answer should not be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/James_1986

In Ireland we pronounce the 'h' of historic but saying 'a historic' seems unnatural to me, 'an historic' sounds correct. I think both should be accepted by Duo.

I really despise the fact Duo is mainly in yank pidgin english and uses the yank flag to represent the english language. Not cool Duo, not cool.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Diane540044

This is sort of picky, but the correct English translation is actually "an" historic rather than "a" historic palace.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Oliver289980

AN historic not A historic


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlesPit19

So, would you say 'AN history lesson?' Of course not. 'A historic' is grammatically correct, although these days it really doesn't matter.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Erica900596

It depends where the emphasis is. It's easier to say an historic, or 'ay' historic rather than 'a historic'. But both should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nathan630989

Ok. I guess I didn't lose a heart.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Caperucita804455

"an" is NOT a typo. This is utterly correct in UK English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/p2QKuMcf

USAGE Historic and historical are used in slightly different ways. Historic means 'famous or important in history' (a historic occasion), whereas historical chiefly means 'concerning history' (historical evidence).

just sayin'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elinor633744

An historic is proper English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mary614996

Why not fuori la città?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antonia472750

"an historic" is correct english in Australia


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mary614996

Why not fuori la città


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryPaz294872

My answer must be right: Out of town.. there is a historic building. Why is it wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GilbertFos1

Hello Mary, (and others) here is the explanation about an hotel. This is the rule. If the "H" is pronounced then an 'a' is used e.g. a horse and a house. When it is a near silent or aspirated "H" one should use "an" such as in an hour and an hotel.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Murdene

why not "fuori la citta"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OscarVazqu678746

Outside of the city there is an historical palace. Now what the hell is wrong with that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SusanCoope312550

That sounds odd in English English - ',outside of' is am Americanism I think, but it should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartinaNic136314

'an' historical palazzo is correct. like 'ad' or 'ed' in Italian. you assume a vowel in this case. I was marked correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GilbertFos1

it should be an historic palace. 'An' and not "a" is used before nouns beginning with h.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sandra287298

should be 'an historic palace'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lindaj23

Fuori la città is outside the city Fuori città is out of town


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlesPit19

Except that DL translated 'fuori città' as 'outside the city.' Are you saying that DL is in error in this case?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlisonClar302384

Sorry, but "An" is the correct word before an "H"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mehefin14

Outside the city there is AN historic palace, still not accepted Jan 2020. However, it was counted as a typo and I was not marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pesigam

"An historic" can also be used


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/et-bim

"an" is in effect used with an initial "h" aspirated or silent


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nVt34h8S

In English 'h' is often treated as a vowel therefore the preceding article can be 'an'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mzmalvina

An historic is correct!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lindaj23

an is used before a silent h....not in a word like historic.

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