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https://www.duolingo.com/kirezatav

Help with accusative pronouns

kirezatav
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This section is confusing me a bit, I was hoping that someone could help clear some things up!

When are the stressed pronouns used? Are they used for emphasis, something like - Nu o văd, îl văd pe el (I don't see her, I see him)

When using a noun as the direct object, do you always use both the unstressed pronoun and 'pe'? So, you'd always say "O iubim pe sora mea", not "O iubim sora mea".

When using 'pe' as a preposition, from what I've seen the definite form of the noun isn't used - "pe o masă" is "on a table", but "pe masă" is "on the table". Does the same hold true for using 'pe' to mark the accusative? ie. "O văd pe o fată" is "I see a girl", but "O văd pe fată" is "I see the girl".

Finally, when are the prefixed/hyphenated forms of the unstressed pronouns used? I assume that m-, l-, and v- are used before vowel-initial verbs, but when are the others used?

Mulțumesc if anyone can help! :)

7 months ago

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https://www.duolingo.com/coto.i
coto.i
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Hello, kirezatav :) If this topic is confusing you just a bit, then you're doing absolutely great!

When are the stressed pronouns used? Are they used for emphasis,

something like - Nu o văd, îl văd pe el (I don't see her, I see him)

Yes, you got it right. The stressed pronouns are used for emphasizing. They are optional. They are used in conjunction with the unstressed pronouns. They are never used in place of the unstressed pronouns.

When using a noun as the direct object, do you always use both the unstressed

pronoun and 'pe'? So, you'd always say "O iubim pe sora mea", not "O iubim sora mea".

Yes. The preposition (pe) is required by the accusative case, no matter what comes after (noun, pronoun etc.). The unstressed pronoun (o) can't be missing if the verb is present.

Some examples:

  • Pe cine iubim? = Whom do we love?

  • O iubim pe sora mea. = We love my sister. / Pe sora mea. = My sister.

  • O iubim? = Do we love her?

  • O iubim. = We love her.

When using 'pe' as a preposition, from what I've seen the definite form of the noun

isn't used - "pe o masă" is "on a table", but "pe masă" is "on the table". Does the same

hold true for using 'pe' to mark the accusative? ie. "O văd pe o fată" is "I see a girl",

but "O văd pe fată" is "I see the girl".

  • pe masă = on the table, right, it's indefinite, but if we add an adjective than we have:

  • pe masa albă = on the white table, or: pe alba masă = on the white table (rare, poetic)

This is true not only for the "pe" preposition but for many others. This feels like a more general difference between English and Romanian. For example:

  • Mergem la teatru. (indefinite) = We go to the theatre. | WRONG: Mergem la teatrul. (definite) | BUT: Mergem la teatrul de păpuși. = We go to the puppet theatre.

  • Mergem în parc. (indefinite) = We go to the park. | WRONG: Mergem în parcul. (definite) | BUT: Mergem în parcul următor. = We go to the next park.

  • HOWEVER: Călătorim cu trenul/mașina/autobuzul. (definite) = We travel by train/car/bus. | Here it is the other way around :)

"O văd pe o fată." - This is an unusual construction I would try to avoid. We simply say "Văd o fată." OR: "O văd pe fată."

Here are some examples of possible questions and their most common answers.

  • Ce vezi? = What do you see? | WRONG: Care vezi?

  • (Văd) o fată. OR: O fată văd. = (I see) a girl. / (Văd) fata. = (I see) the girl. (previously mentioned)

  • Pe cine vezi? = Whom do you see? | WRONG: Pe cine o vezi? / Cine o vezi? Cine vezi? Pe vezi?

  • (O văd) pe fată. OR: Pe fată o văd. = (I see) the girl. / (Văd) fata. = (I see) the girl. (previously mentioned) | WRONG: O pe fată. / Văd pe fată. / O văd fată. / Pe fată văd. / Pe o văd. / other combinations | The inversion in English gives: a girl / the girl I see. = o fată / fata pe care o văd.

  • O vezi? = Do you see her? | WRONG: Vezi o?

  • O văd. = I see her. | WRONG: Văd o.

  • Pe care o vezi (dintre Maria și Ioana)? = Which one do you see (between Maria and Ioana)? | WRONG: Care o vezi?

  • (O văd) pe Maria. OR: Pe Maria o văd. = (I see) Maria. | WRONG: Maria. / Văd pe Maria. / Pe Maria văd. / Pe Maria o. / O pe Maria. / Maria o văd. / O văd Maria. / Văd o Maria. / Maria văd. / Văd Maria. / other combinations

As you can see the verb can be missing. In this case the unstressed pronoun is missing too.

Finally, when are the prefixed/hyphenated forms of the unstressed pronouns used?

I assume that m-, l-, and v- are used before vowel-initial verbs, but when are the

others used?

This page (in Romanian) answers your last question:

http://www.cursuri-online.info/gramaticaromana/ortografia-pronumelor-personale-neaccentuate/

As you can see the rules are so many. That's why I would advise against memorizing them. Have a look but don't transform the use of the unstressed pronouns into a drastic application of the rules. It's counterproductive when the grammar is so complex. Instead, you would better continue your learning routine with reading and listening exercises. Listen to the music of the words and in time you will know what sounds right and what sounds wrong. And don't be too hard on yourself. Many natives have problems sometimes with the proper use of the hyphen (cratima, "-").

I hope this will help you a bit. I am not a teacher, and hopefully I didn't make any errors.

7 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/coto.i
coto.i
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Please also see the following threads:

Please see the Acuzativ and Dativ columns from the table in this wiki page (accentuat = stressed, neaccentuat = unstressed):

7 months ago