https://www.duolingo.com/Zsuzsi97194

Directional conjunctions! Whaaa?

How do you translate directional conjunctions into English? I am trying to find out what it really means. I am in those three horrible lessons right now and the only part that really puzzles me (other than the ridiculous translations) are the use of the directional words twice in the same sentence. I understand the translations of the words themselves. I spoke Hungarian as a young child and am still quite fluent but I have never heard any usage such as this. If I read the Hungarian sentences aloud I can translate the sentences into proper American English and I am sure that I have the meaningt but my sentences never match those offered by the DUO staff. They obviously don't know English and may be using some kind of translation algorithm which does not work!

January 23, 2018

8 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Apu56
  • 1040

Cut and Paste was the only way I could get through this section. The English sentences are horrible.

January 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/jzsuzsi

"If I read the Hungarian sentences aloud I can translate the sentences into proper American English and I am sure that I have the meaning"

Please, report your real English solution as "my solution should be accepted" at every sentence. The official solutions are pretty bad...

For the Dou-solutions: most of these sentences have two parts: "A madár arról a fáról repül el, amelyiktől a gyerekek elfutnak."

one part has arról / azokról / attól / abban / abba / azokhoz.... so basically az / azok + some ending. The english version of these are from/to / in/ into.....+ that/ those/ the

The other part has amelyiktől/ amelyiktől /amelyekre, amelyiknél / aminél, amiknél, amelyikekre...

Thanslate these to which (with some fitting English preposition)

Use amelyik or ami for singular, amelyek, amelyikek or amik for plural. (There is a subtle difference between amelyik and ami, but not even the course creators use it correctly. )

January 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Zsuzsi97194

Thank you for replying.

I understand all the directional adverbs and suffixes and the use of amelyik, ami, amelyek, amelyikek, amik et

What I am having trouble understanding is what directional conjunctions are as part of the syntax - what would that be in English?

I have never used repeated words in a clause such as: Ez allatt a lampa allatt az asztal száraz. Doesn't that mean the same thing as"Ez a lampa allatt az asztal száraz." A simpler construction.
Azok közül az autók közül lép ki a rendőr, amik mellett egy nagy fa áll. A mögött a busz mögött megyunk amelyiken nincs egy ember sem .

Why are allatt, közül and mögött repeated? Is this an old-fashioned way of speaking?

I have searched the internet for an answer and DL is the only place that pops up with this kind of sentence.

I may be totally wrong and just don't remember proper Hungarian because I switched to German when we were refugees when I was five and then to English and French when we got to Montreal,. Since then I've spoken almost exclusively English here in the U.S. although I taught French and German in a high school when I graduated from college because they were desperate for teachers.

DL has helped me learn to write however and I can type using the accents almost as quickly as in English when I am translating from Hungarian to English. The other way is harder for me.

January 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/jzsuzsi

We discussed the "Ez alatt a lámpa alatt az asztal száraz." sentence in another post : https://www.duolingo.com/comment/25426114/%C3%96n-plural-of-te-is-not-you-guys-in-English

This construction looks weird, but it is grammatically correct.

I searched hard to find examples outsife Duo, and found some short stories.

"Ez még mindig az alatt az asztal alatt történt, ahol ebédeltem. "

http://napihurka.cafeblog.hu/2014/04/01/ebed-a-bolondok-hazaban-nalunk/

Mivel a porszívó pont az alatt az asztal alatt lakik, mint amelyiken a deguk tanyáznak, így a takarítást mindig azzal kell kezdenem, hogy kiporszívózom a porszívót.

http://mivanvelem.hu/2005/12/26/ciklotron/

the reason this comes up so rarely, is that you only need double-alatt when using this/ that.

under a table = egy asztal alatt

under the table = az asztal alatt

under THAT table = az alatt az asztal alatt.

under THIS table = ez alatt az asztal alatt.

Imagine specifically pointing at the table (or lamp). THIS TABLE, not any other table.

You say: " "Ez a lampa alatt az asztal száraz." A simpler construction."

I think if you say this simpler form to a native Hungarian, they will understand what you are saying. Just Duolingo won't accept it because it is not the most correct way.

"Ez a lampa alatt ...... construction can also lead to "Ez a lampa alatt van." Which means "This is under the lamp". (There is no such confusion using double alatt)

January 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JBHayven

Why are allatt, közül and mögött repeated? Is this an old-fashioned way of speaking?

From what they said in the comments under those sentences, this is the grammatically correct way of speaking. Sometimes not even known of by native speakers.

What I'd be guessing, though, is that the demonstrative pronouns have to agree in case and number with the noun they describe (hence declining them through cases). Many cases denote location and the postpositions do the same, thus functioning almost like cases do and that's why they have to be included in both the demonstrative and the noun.

January 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Biff812086

The book "Hungarian in Words and Pictures" also uses a lot of those constructions with the repeated words (mögött, mellett, etc.). I've wondered how common it is in the spoken language though. The English translations typically don't resemble the spoken language but I just figured that was because of the difficulty in translating the two languages while also maintaining some of the nuance of the Hungarian.

February 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/jzsuzsi

Disclaimer: Using this do not guarantee to get your answers accepted at these skills. It is more like a guessing game here :(

January 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JessicaGru458586

I have friends in Hungary and a lot of the sentences where the preposition occurs twice (such as when mogott or folott appear twice) are often redundant and uncessary. Some languages have nuances that do not occur in English either. And my Hungarian friends have been extremely helpful clearing up any questions that I have, as one lives in NYC for half the year and the other lived in the UK for a few years and both speak excellent English

January 25, 2018
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