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"I am trying not to look at her."

Translation:Snažím se na ni nedívat.

January 27, 2018

13 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zubkov318

Are both verbs here translated with the "se" participle? "am trying" -> "snažím se", "look" -> "dívat se". But the answer has one "se". Is there any rule that allows that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

There is a paragraph about that written in Czech in http://prirucka.ujc.cas.cz/?id=580

'Two verbs with "si, se" can meet in a single sentence. We can't find the rules for omitting or keeping one of them in grammars. Usually, when two of "se" meet, we omit one of them if the meaning is not changed by that, but it is not necessary, for example "přinutili se smát (se), všichni se snaží vrátit (se)". If the omitting changes the meaning, both pronouns have to be kept: "snažím se nezlobit se (nebýt rozčilený = not to be upset) × snažím se nezlobit (e.g. nezlobit = not to misbehave)".'

V jedné větě se mohou vyskytnout dvě slovesa s výrazy se, si. Pravidla pro vypouštění či ponechávání jednoho z nich v mluvnicích nenajdeme. Obvykle sice tam, kde se ve větě setkají dvě reflexiva se, jedno z nich vynecháváme, pokud tím nedojde k narušení větného významu, není to však nutné, např. přinutili se smát (se), všichni se snaží vrátit (se). Pokud by došlo vynecháním jednoho se ke změně významu, je třeba obě zvratná zájmena ponechat: snažím se nezlobit se (nebýt rozčilený) × snažím se nezlobit (např. nezlobit rodiče).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

So in this case you can have two "se" if you want: "Snažím se nedívat se na ni."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BoneheadBass

Another interesting "feature" of Czech! :-)

My answer -- snažím se na ni se nedívat -- was marked incorrect. Is the word order wrong, or is it a missing alternative? (I've reported it)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

I think we just omit the second se instead. Or use the word order in my previous post.

Notice the examples from the handbook all have the second se after the infinitive.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Renardo_11

Meanwhile this is explained in the notes, with several examples.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ken55414

Since I am trying to eliminate my typos, mám otázku, do all infinitives loose their long á 's (psát, dívát) when they become negative (nepsat, nedívat)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

Dívat is not a good example, it is just dívat and nedívat.

But psát, hrát, prát, brát, (srát) all do this. But then you have bát-nebát, zrát-nezrát, vlát-nevlát which do not shorten the á.

And then the ones that and -ást: krást - nekrást

I think all those that do the shortening, at least those I listed, are either class I, paradigm "brát" or irregular, like psát.

But that is without any warranty, I didn't study anything about it. Check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_conjugation

OK, I have found some linguistic resource, but it is about alternations in general and it is WAY too complicated https://digilib.phil.muni.cz/bitstream/handle/11222.digilib/124480/SpisyFF_401-2011-1_8.pdf


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ken55414

Sorry to ask all these questions, I am enjoying learning Czech and I really appreciate your help. But I am also desperately looking for short cuts/consistencies, so I have another question.
I have just looked ahead to the tips and notes for past tense. Can we assume that the same verbs that shorten in past tense (bral, byl, pil, psal, spal, znal, etc) also shorten to form negative infinitives (nebrat, nebyl?, nepit?, nepsat, nespat?, neznat?, etc.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

No, that's why the document I linked is so complicated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ken55414

Thanks for the document, at some point I hope I am ready to attempt to read it. But I did look at it and I bet if I did a word search, there would be many words like často and někdy, but no words like vždy and nikdy. Thank you again for your help.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EilatBenEl

Why wouldn't "nepodívat" work here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VladaFu

It might work, although it sounds quite strange. The meaning is different. It means you try to not even have one look.

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