Ahoj everybody, could someone please give me a few more tips about the demonstratives?
Tamten, "that/that one", and Tamhleten, "that one over there". Do they show something far from the speaker or far from both speaker and listener ?
Tento and Tenhle. Do they serve something near the speaker, no matter where other people are?
Díki moc :)
the position of the listener(s) does not matter. "tamhleten" is similar to "tamten" in being farther from the speaker than "tento" and "tenhle", but "tamhleten" must be visible to the speaker, while "tamten" does not have to be.
because "ten" was now pulled into this (not that you asked), let me just paste the relevant portions of the tips and notes:
Recall that ten may at times correspond to the English definite article. But let's not try simply sticking in a form of ten for every English "the", or we will be producing terribly unnatural sentences. Czech does not really have articles and often expresses (in)definiteness through nothing but word order.
When used as a demonstrative, ten corresponds to English "that" or "that one" (in pronomial use), adjusted to "those" or "those ones" as appropriate. Examples: ti malí kluci is "those little boys" and Ty nechci! means "I don't want those!".
In this skill, we deal with four more Czech demonstratives: two more for "that" (tamten and tamhleten) and two for "this" (tento and tenhle). All of them behave much like ten when it comes to forms but do not double as the definite article. To figure out the forms of tamten and tamhleten from those of ten, we just prepend tam- or tamhle- to the appropriate form of ten. For forms of tento and tenhle, we append -to or -hle to the form of ten.
The forms of tamhleten follow the same pattern as those of tamten. Both of these demonstratives mean "that", except tamhleten has a shade of "that...over there" and requires that whatever is being referred to be visible to the speaker.
The forms of tenhle follow the same pattern as those of tento. Both of these demonstratives mean "this", but tento is quite formal and tenhle informal. Both are standard Czech.
Every pronoun has three version according to gender of word, for which it stands.
ten/ta/to and tento/tato/toto = THIS, same meaning, but the latter gives more emphasis on word.
tito/tyto = THESE
tamten/tamta/tamto = THAT
tamti/tamty = THOSE
If you want to know about more specific and rare demontratives (like onen, týž or tentýž) look for "ukazovací zájmena" in Google :)
PS: "Díky moc" is with y, after k we write always y
Thank you :)
I will save the most specific demonstratives for later. By now it was important for me to know that there is no demonstrative to describe something far from the speaker but near the listener as the "codesto" we have in Italian.
And thanks for that "after k we write always y", at least one orthographic rule for the five different 'i" sounds I'm struggling with :D
They are hard for Czech pupils in elementary schools as well. The rules are not trivial. I think they must have been treated in some lesson notes, weren't they?
Always y: h,ch,k,r and also d,t,n when they really mean the hard d,t,n sound (and not the soft ď,ť,ň)
Always i: ž,š,č,ř,c,j,ď,ť,ň including when d,t,n mean the ď,ť,ň sound in the di,ti,ni syllables
For b,f,l,m,p,s,v,z: both are possible and it cannot be deduced from the sound, other rules must be followed
oh, thank you, that was helpful. I checked the first lessons again, and realized that what I had wrongly got from there, was that the rules were just due to the orthography of the adjectives. I must confess anyway that I went fast through the tree to the tenth level because I was very curious about the core of Czech grammar , but I still have to memorize many words and the gender of many names. I mean, I got to the point that I understand what I read and listen in the strengthen function, but make mistakes on the way back, English to Czech.
You are welcome.
If you still don't get it or want some pronunciation practice, I can help you in Italian, if needed ;)
I will sure need pronunciation practice, but later. Thank you for your offer, I will remember! I'm glad to see people learning Italian :) If I can help, feel free to ask
Grazie mille, sei gentile pero' adesso sto studiano il tedesco e l'italiano imparo solo un pocchino :) Qui a Duolingo e' difficile contattarmi, preferisci email oppure facebook?
Se non ti fa male non vorrei pubblicare il mio facebook cosi apertamente nella discussione di Duolingo. Scrivimi un mail all'indirizzo: xxx con un link o qualsiasi modo di comunicazione :)