"They are butterflies."

Translation:Sono farfalle.

March 20, 2013

148 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheGandalf

So... "Loro sono le farfalle" is wrong? I thought there could be an article there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mukkapazza

Loro is more for people, you could use essi for butterflies, but it isn't necessary. Keep in mind the subject pronoun never has to be expressed unless that is the emphasis of the sentence, for example Io non sono un uomo, lui è un uomo. The sentence wouldn't be grammatically incorrect without the subject pronouns, but your audience might not understand you without lui.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carlo522814

Non penso che se scrivo in italiano "loro sono farfalle " me lo considerino errore. Non vedo perché lo sia per Duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AngelicaRo6468

Perché cosí dice Duolingo é già.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duomail

But what about the article "le" ?
And besides that, the hint "farfalla" is wrong for "butterflies" ? It is shown "farfalla (plural)".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mukkapazza

The use of definite articles (le, la, gli...) and partitives (dei, delle...) is complex, and there's a discussion going on here: http://duolingo.com/#/comment/295808 feel free to follow it. But here are a few examples that may clear up the situation:

I eat bread

Io mangio pane: this is a literal translation. It isn't grammatically incorrect in Italian, it is just that plenty of times the sentence does sound better with a definite article or a partitive. Simple way to start learning the vocabulary, right?

Io mangio il pane: don't confuse this with always meaning the bread. Using the definite article in Italian can make a sentence a generalization (I am a bread-eater) in addition to the function of the definite article you already know (I eat the bread we spoke of).

Io mangio del pane: partitives are like 'some'. They make the sentence flow, and they make sure you understand that an indefinite quantity is being discussed. Again, the partitive isn't absolutely necessary. The use of the definite article and the partitive goes beyond grammar--to speak another language, you have to think differently as well, and when you speak a romance language, you start giving importance to things you wouldn't have in English ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mamatabs

Duolingo does not accept "Essi sono farfalle" either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheGandalf

Ah, I think I get it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TommyPez1

Agreed, loro should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TateTuuli

The same here. A bit confusing


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nancelot4

"Loro sono farfalle." is wrong, why? I thought, I could say "Sono farfalle" as well as the longer version "Loro sono farfalle" - both should be correct!?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/diingoES

I don't know this, but it seems the pronouns such as "loro" are used for people, not things.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FHqXhJ

Look, those people there with the winged costumes! What are they supposed to be? - They (people) are butterflies.

... right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

Right
I said exactly that a year ago
but this would be a stretch When we talk about a real butterflies loro doesn’t work


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IMABlissful1

The charismatic folks holding glasses of wine and chatting with scrive at the party.... They are (social) butterflies.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kirra951

Ohhh, I hadn't heard that before. I used loro like Nancelot and didn't understand why I was wrong. I'll keep my eyes open for this!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/diingoES

"sono le farfalle" is wrong? I know you don't always need the article here, but I didn't think it was wrong to include it here either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UtsavSen

Sono le farfalle is wrong. Am I missing something here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan357550

It's confused me that 'loro sono farfalle' has been judged as wrong, I thought 'sono' and 'loro sono' were equally acceptable


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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"Loro" is for people. This would need "esse".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

This is a link to an article which suggest that “loro” is used for animals as well. (a quote: “ Loro is used with reference to people and, especially in spoken Italian, also to refer to animals.”)

https://www.thoughtco.com/forgotten-italian-subject-pronouns-2011380


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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According to f.formica, course contributor and native Italian speaker:

I wouldn’t accept “loro sono pesci” because it feels too unnatural to hear: it might work with something like “loro sono i miei pesci” - if someone was showing off their aquarium.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

I see. How about this scenario, then:

Picture a situation when you are pointing at a group of kids dressed up as butterflies for a party and what would you say? I guess "Loro sono farfalle" would be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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Yes, I've seen that mentioned several times. That's a clever loophole that skirts the point of the lesson.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nico610783

Thanks, this is of all reactions the first meaningfull one


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyanDVarley

Last question was "they are chickens" and my answer "sono i polli" was correct.
So why is "sono le farfalle" not correct for "they are butterflies"? Need some consistency on Duolingo!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sofitor

ah, that's why bowtie pasta's called farfalle :D they're like little butterflies. that's so cute for some reason.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

yes and I guess you know by now what tiramisu does mean


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DuloGmaz

In serbian bowtie is called "leptir mašna" which translates to "butterfly tie" for the same reason :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

Not “BUTTER tie”?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marialdejerez

Please explain me why sometimes the subject is omitted and others no. In this excersise I wrote "Loro sono farfalle" and you say it is "wrong"? ¡Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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You can pretty much always omit the subject pronoun in Italian.

Duolingo forgot to mention that "loro" is only for people. The tips and notes say that "essi/esse" is archaic/literary, but apparently it's for non-human references. mukkapazza explains this in the top comment thread on this page.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hacarvell

Why can't loro be there?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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As explained on this page already, "loro" is only for people. If anything, it would need to be "esse sono farfalle".

esso - masc. sing.
esssi - masc. pl.
essa - fem. sing.
esse - fem. pl.

But part of what this lesson is teaching is that it is more common to omit the subject pronoun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FHqXhJ

I had the mental image of people dressed up as butterflies. Wouldn't that warrant "loro"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danilo659840

Why is "Loro sono farfalle" not correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bhazen

So farfalle is plural and farfalla is singular I'm assuming. What is the rule for plurals according to the endings? I put farfalli which is incorrect. This is my guess for endings: change e to an i for plurals and change a to an e. Is this correct?

I am so grateful for duolingo! I know it doesn't give textbook explanations which can be frustrating, but there are so many other resources we can use for textbook explanations. There are not, however, a lot of places you can practice hearing and seeing in other languages for free.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eli933893

How can loro sono farfalle be wrong??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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As explained on this page before, "loro" is for people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craiga14

Yes but you have not taught that lesson. I am always amazed at inconsistencies in lessons. Duo Lingo...you cant have it both ways if you dont explain it. I have taught languages for 40 years.


[deactivated user]

    I think "loro sono farfalle" should be ok...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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    Native speakers disagree with you. Please read the other comments for more details.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Angel869350

    Loro sono farfalle no deberia ser igual que solo sono farfalle?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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    No. Loro es solamente para personas. Esse sono farfalle.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MerryBoggs

    Duolingo is not consisent apllying this rule


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anjay007

    Farfalle is also the shape of pasta in Italy that looks like a butterfly / hair ribbon. Italian is so funny at times :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rand576002

    The article may not be necessary, but how on gods green earth is "Loro Sono farfalle" the wrong answer? I'm sure if you said that to a native italian speaker they'd understand perfectly and wouldn't looked at you as if you were mental.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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    Understand of you just because, mean always not grammar-good.

    "Loro" is for people. According to f.formica, course contributor and native Italian speaker:

    I wouldn’t accept “loro sono pesci” because it feels too unnatural to hear: it might work with something like “loro sono i miei pesci” - if someone was showing off their aquarium.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kyle486197

    Why does it accept "sono farfalle" but not "essi sono farfalle"? I get that loro is people and essi for non-humans, but I would have thought with and without essi are equally correct?

    Anybody able to offer clarity, is there some reason? I'm the first to admit I don't 100% get the grammar in Italian, trying hard to unlearn English grammar (this is my first real foray into a second language).


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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    "Farfalle" is feminine, so it would need to be "esse sono farfalle".

    esso - masc. sing.
    esssi - masc. pl.
    essa - fem. sing.
    esse - fem. pl.

    But part of what this lesson is teaching is that it is more common to omit the subject pronoun.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PattQuattr

    Loro sono .... should have counted we have not yet covered essi


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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    This has been discussed elsewhere on this page. "Loro" is only for people. Also, this sentence is teaching you that it's normal to leave out the subject pronoun entirely.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susan545925

    why is "loro sono farfalle" wrong?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susan545925

    Thank you for all the useful comments! Grazie


    [deactivated user]

      Why not... loro sono farfalle.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/branabol

      Hey Duo, what is wrong?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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      Hey branabol, you tell me. We can't possibly know what's going on over on your end if you don't tell us explicitly.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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      Please read the other comments on this page.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danilo659840

      Ok, read before you post. Thanks mukkapazza for the answer.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/veronicandy

      Loro sono is also right!!!!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      I was told that loro is used for people.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RamonLinar6

      I was told by maaany people that the owl is unfair way too much often...


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bob315489

      I used Lori but this is said to be wrong but I could have used esse. As I have not seen esse before this discussion it wasn’t an option. I don’t know what esse means.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Francesco030571

      Ma che cazzo! Loro sono farfalle errato?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/essereferrari

      I write, essi sono farfalle It's not correct??


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

      It has to be esse
      as farfalle is a plural, feminine form...


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SrebrenkaB2

      Why not: Queste sono le farfalle


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

      Because this would mean something like:
      ”These are butterflies”


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susan545925

      Thanks, that makes sense,


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SilviaGema5

      Loro, esse, sono farfalle.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kyra132913

      Loro sono farfalle should be correct


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

      No, Loro is for people only.
      It would be correct only in a situation like this:
      Picture a situation when you are pointing at a group of kids dressed up as butterflies for a costume party and what would you say? I guess "Loro sono farfalle" would be correct.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/3Kroliki

      Why would it be incorrect to add the subject pronoun Loro sono... here? Are these creatures unworthy of being Loro? What about a metaphoric usage, such as They are (social) butterflies? Surely the addition of the subject pronoun would not be incorrect in this case.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TommyPez1

      Why cant you include Loro??


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jimmy653384

      You asked me to translate "They are butterflies" they is translated: loro


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      Loro is for people.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gkler

      I wrote 'loro sono farfalle', I believe it should be accepted.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      Loro is for people.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shamshoomi

      What are the pronouns for things and animals - whether they are singular or plural?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zemeyi

      I wrote "Loro sono farfalle" and it said I was wrong, but, like, why would it be wrong??? "Loro" is "They", why isn't it being accepted??


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephnakass

      Loro is only used for humans. For anything non-human it's "essi" or just drop it completely and just use sono.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/abarbezan

      "Loro non sono farfalle" should be considered right....despite any arguments regarding "butterflies are not people", the sentence is gramatically correct...also, the level at this point is supposed to be basic


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      Why is "loro sono farfalle" not accepted?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

      Loro means They for people only.
      Please read more comments, it has been well explained on this forum


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cristine277983

      Good explanation. Grazie


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/I7wz2FiU

      why is it wrong to use "Loro" sono farfalle?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      I was told that loro is used for people.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

      right, and butterflies are not people, that's why we cannot use loro here


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/I7wz2FiU

      why not " loro sono farfalle"?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

      Read the comments Your question has been answered many times


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      I was told that loro is used for people.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tanocampione

      porque no te vas a la reputa madre que te pario duolingo con tu correccion, mi respuesta es correcta hdp


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lord_Mozartos

      Why is "Loro sono farfalle" wrong?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      I was told that loro is used for people.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vidhyasaagar1

      Loro sono farfalle is wrong..why i lost by combo!!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

      Loro is for people only
      Please read the comments, it’s been very well explained here


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FilipKoces

      i answered loro sono farfalle, how the ❤❤❤❤ that aint right


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      You can use loro only for humans.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

      Actually not, you can use ”loro” for aliens as well.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FilipKoces

      HOW THE ❤❤❤❤ LORO SONO FARFALLE AINT ❤❤❤❤❤❤ RIGHT


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      Loro is for people only.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlanHawkes3

      Loro sono farfalle is surely as correct as, "Sono farfalle". If someone disagreed, thought that the creatures were moths, it would be logical to emphasise "loro".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

      ”Loro” means ”they” for people only, not for things or animals. This is why is wrong to use it in this sentence.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clyde970754

      How can "loro sono farfalle" be wrong? Must "loro" be for people? If so, what is "they" for other things?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fabix366194

      I am confuse why not: Loro sono farfalle


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

      You cannot use loro for things or animals, it means they for people only


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RamonLinar6

      I think that in the form "sono" usung the pronoun is particularly clarifying becuse


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RamonLinar6

      Sorry, because it is the same for "io" and for "loro": What if the actual meaning was, for instance "Io sono le farfalle, in questo costume di carnevale"?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RamonLinar6

      Now, to make it worse, the owl hasn't


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RamonLinar6

      -Hasn't accepted "Essi sono farfalle"


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RamonLinar6

      -Hasn't accepted "Essi sono farfalle"... I am about to rip my clothes off!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

      I guess that as farfalle is feminine it should be esse (not “essi”) used in this sentence


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidJones764239

      What's wrong with "Loro sono farfalle" ??


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      Loro is for people.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlanaD92

      Why is "Sono le farfalle" wrong?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      Because we are not asked "They are the butterflies". Le means the.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wayfarer_Tiasha

      Why not 'loro sono farfalle'?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      Loro is for people.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sara694588

      Why loro sono is incorrect?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kartagis

      Loro is for people.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sa0neZZ7

      Why - loro sono farfalle is wrong? Is it the same as - sono farfalle?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/me22dec

      Loro is for people.

      Learn Italian in just 5 minutes a day. For free.