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  5. "They are butterflies."

"They are butterflies."

Translation:Sono farfalle.

March 20, 2013

57 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheGandalf

So... "Loro sono le farfalle" is wrong? I thought there could be an article there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mukkapazza

Loro is more for people, you could use essi for butterflies, but it isn't necessary. Keep in mind the subject pronoun never has to be expressed unless that is the emphasis of the sentence, for example Io non sono un uomo, lui è un uomo. The sentence wouldn't be grammatically incorrect without the subject pronouns, but your audience might not understand you without lui.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carlo522814

Non penso che se scrivo in italiano "loro sono farfalle " me lo considerino errore. Non vedo perché lo sia per Duolingo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

If we'd be talking about kids dressed up as butterflies we definitely would say: "Loro sono farfalle". So this answer should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AngelicaRo6468

Perché cosí dice Duolingo é già.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duomail

But what about the article "le" ?
And besides that, the hint "farfalla" is wrong for "butterflies" ? It is shown "farfalla (plural)".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mukkapazza

The use of definite articles (le, la, gli...) and partitives (dei, delle...) is complex, and there's a discussion going on here: http://duolingo.com/#/comment/295808 feel free to follow it. But here are a few examples that may clear up the situation:

I eat bread

Io mangio pane: this is a literal translation. It isn't grammatically incorrect in Italian, it is just that plenty of times the sentence does sound better with a definite article or a partitive. Simple way to start learning the vocabulary, right?

Io mangio il pane: don't confuse this with always meaning the bread. Using the definite article in Italian can make a sentence a generalization (I am a bread-eater) in addition to the function of the definite article you already know (I eat the bread we spoke of).

Io mangio del pane: partitives are like 'some'. They make the sentence flow, and they make sure you understand that an indefinite quantity is being discussed. Again, the partitive isn't absolutely necessary. The use of the definite article and the partitive goes beyond grammar--to speak another language, you have to think differently as well, and when you speak a romance language, you start giving importance to things you wouldn't have in English ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mamatabs

Duolingo does not accept "Essi sono farfalle" either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheGandalf

Ah, I think I get it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anne762932

I think, we were taught , that " loro" is not necessary, but now it seems to be wrong??????????????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NJtheSTQ

The English of your sentence = They are the butterflies. But the DL sentence = They are butterflies.

No "the," no "le."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2406

Different languages are not just blind word-swaps of each other. Just because a language uses an article (or not) in a certain context does not mean the other language is obligated to do the same.

https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/295808


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nancelot4

"Loro sono farfalle." is wrong, why? I thought, I could say "Sono farfalle" as well as the longer version "Loro sono farfalle" - both should be correct!?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/diingoES

I don't know this, but it seems the pronouns such as "loro" are used for people, not things.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

Exactly, so if you have a bunch of kids dressed up as butterflies the sentence should be OK


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anthony472429

'Loro' worked for chickens. This is ridiculous. They only pull this stuff when you can lose hearts, never in a review


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/diingoES

"sono le farfalle" is wrong? I know you don't always need the article here, but I didn't think it was wrong to include it here either.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NJtheSTQ

Check this out. Loro is used in reference to both people AND animals. It's the third person plural pronoun, personhood not required. I Reported when DL said Loro sono farfalle was wrong.

https://www.thoughtco.com/forgotten-italian-subject-pronouns-2011380


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

Thanks. Interesting article. So DL still refuses to acknowledge “Loro” even though so many people have reported this issue. The only good thing is that in real life conversation we do not have to deal with algorithms and this sentence would be perfectly understood by a native speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sofitor

ah, that's why bowtie pasta's called farfalle :D they're like little butterflies. that's so cute for some reason.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

yes and I guess you know by now what tiramisu does mean


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anjay007

Farfalle is also the shape of pasta in Italy that looks like a butterfly / hair ribbon. Italian is so funny at times :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

If we'd be talking about kids dressed up as butterflies we definitely would say: "Loro sono farfalle". So this answer should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2406

No one here can do anything about that. You will need to flag it next time and report "My answer should be accepted."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marialdejerez

Please explain me why sometimes the subject is omitted and others no. In this excersise I wrote "Loro sono farfalle" and you say it is "wrong"? ¡Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2406

You can pretty much always omit the subject pronoun in Italian.

I think what's going on here is that Duolingo forgot to mention that "loro" is only for people. The tips and notes say that "essi/esse" is archaic/literary, but apparently it's for non-human references.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

I am not so sure about that. Plus in one of my previous comments I mentioned the situation when "loro" would be necessary in this sentence.

Here is a link where this quote: "Loro is used with reference to people and, especially in spoken Italian, also to refer to animals." comes from:

https://www.thoughtco.com/forgotten-italian-subject-pronouns-2011380


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2406

We need a native speaker.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

yes, this is on of those instances when we really do.

But picture a situation when you are pointing at a group of kids dressed up as butterflies for a party and what would you say? I guess "Loro sono farfalle" would be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan357550

It's confused me that 'loro sono farfalle' has been judged as wrong, I thought 'sono' and 'loro sono' were equally acceptable


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2406

"Loro" is for people. This would need "esse".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

This is a link to an article which suggest that “loro” is used for animals as well. (a quote: “ Loro is used with reference to people and, especially in spoken Italian, also to refer to animals.”)

https://www.thoughtco.com/forgotten-italian-subject-pronouns-2011380


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2406

According to f.formica, course contributor and native Italian speaker:

I wouldn’t accept “loro sono pesci” because it feels too unnatural to hear: it might work with something like “loro sono i miei pesci” - if someone was showing off their aquarium.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stefan_Hey

I see. How about this scenario, then:

Picture a situation when you are pointing at a group of kids dressed up as butterflies for a party and what would you say? I guess "Loro sono farfalle" would be correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2406

Yes, I've seen that mentioned several times. That's a clever loophole that skirts the point of the lesson.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nico610783

Thanks, this is of all reactions the first meaningfull one


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craiga14

Yes but you have not taught that lesson. I am always amazed at inconsistencies in lessons. Duo Lingo...you cant have it both ways if you dont explain it. I have taught languages for 40 years.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bhazen

So farfalle is plural and farfalla is singular I'm assuming. What is the rule for plurals according to the endings? I put farfalli which is incorrect. This is my guess for endings: change e to an i for plurals and change a to an e. Is this correct?

I am so grateful for duolingo! I know it doesn't give textbook explanations which can be frustrating, but there are so many other resources we can use for textbook explanations. There are not, however, a lot of places you can practice hearing and seeing in other languages for free.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

there are both masculine and feminine nouns in Italian. la farfalla becomes le farfalle, il insetto becomes loro insetti. (I'm a real beginner, but that's how it seems to me at this point.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2406

You have the right idea, but you're not quite getting the articles right. This link should help: https://ciaoitaliablog.wordpress.com/classes/italian-definite-article/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

An even better page on that blog is this one, with lot of sing-along songs in easily understood Italian. I learned German and Danish through singing. This is great: https://ciaoitaliablog.wordpress.com/italian-songs/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UtsavSen

Sono le farfalle is wrong. Am I missing something here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rand576002

The article may not be necessary, but how on gods green earth is "Loro Sono farfalle" the wrong answer? I'm sure if you said that to a native italian speaker they'd understand perfectly and wouldn't looked at you as if you were mental.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2406

Understand of you just because, mean always not grammar-good.

"Loro" is for people. According to f.formica, course contributor and native Italian speaker:

I wouldn’t accept “loro sono pesci” because it feels too unnatural to hear: it might work with something like “loro sono i miei pesci” - if someone was showing off their aquarium.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eli933893

How can loro sono farfalle be wrong??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2406

As explained on this page before, "loro" is for people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/craiga14

Look again they dont teach that lesson....then they switch...you must have the ARTICLE...then you dont...then this comoany doesnt always ad your hearts up right...qnd by tge way I had native soeakers soeak the lines...and it will show a word in red.....as if not spoken correctly....another issue is when they try to create differences in eating lunch or another examole...when we eat dinner....ceniamo etc. Look rhey cant have it both ways....i qm thinking of switching to a better company...DO NOT TAKE THE CHINESE COURSE....THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES.

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