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"¿Para qué necesitas noventa pesos?"

Translation:What do you need ninety pesos for?

February 25, 2018

93 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/heather304956

for what do you need ninety pesos; is this correct? prepositions are not supposed to appear at the end of a sentence in correct english grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizadeux

"At one time, schoolchildren were taught that a sentence should never end with a preposition. However, this is a rule from Latin grammar that was applied to English. While many aspects of Latin have made their way into the English language, this particular grammar rule is not suited for modern English usage."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wordwing

12/03/18. Duolingo responded on 08/23/18 to my post:

"Hi wordwing, You suggested “for what do you need ninety pesos” as a translation for “¿Para qué necesitas noventa pesos?” We now accept this translation. :) Thanks for the contribution, please keep it up! - Duolingo"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EdwardDitc

I also answered "for what do you need ninety pesos" but was not accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/steve682887

Does anyone want to hear my favorite ?

Carla on Cheers! said that she took her anger management class to become "someone that people wanted to be waited on by."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/10oZENwy

Didn't Sam say that? and then Dianne leans over and whispers:" you just ended that sentence with two prepositions"...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/steve682887

I found several references that agree with you ... that's what I get for trying to use my memory !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SGuthrie0

Yes, and no. It's not that hard and fast. Depends on the sentence.

See these references:
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/youve-been-lied-to-heres-why-you-absolutely-can-end-a-sentence-with-a-preposition/

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/ending-a-sentence-with-a-preposition?page=1

Depends in part on whether its formal writing, or informal speech.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AWKlein

"For what do you need ninety pesos?" is what I responded and was told that is not correct. It wanted "Why do you need ninety pesos?" instead. But yes, in written English I'd probably write "For what..." whereas for spoken I'd expect to hear "What do you need ninety pesos for?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CheriStead

I thought about ''why do you need 90 pesos'' but went with ''for what do you need 90 pesos''. It told me that it wanted "What do you need ninety pesos for?" I agree with you on the written vs spoken, so I'm reporting it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lambisqueiro

Very interesting!

What do you need ninety pesos for? For what reason( purpose) do you need ninety pesos? Why do you need ninety pesos? I 'am not sure if is this last answer correct.

Would" With what purpose" be accurate?

http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=para%20que (...)¿Para qué? loc conj (con qué fin) why?, for what reason? for what purpose? adv (...)

http://dle.rae.es/?id=Rp1CuT2 (...)para que

  1. loc. conjunt. U. para indicar la finalidad o el propósito de algo. Te lo repito para que te enteres.(...)

(...) por qué

  1. loc. adv. Por cuál razón, causa o motivo. ¿Por qué te agrada la compañía de un hombre como ese? No acierto a explicarme por qué le tengo tanto cariño.(...)

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizadeux

Why do you need them? and What do you need them for? are slightly different questions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lambisqueiro

Thanks!. ¿Por qué los necesitas? ¿ Para qué los necesitas?

Then, Is there another way to say? : What do you need them for?

I suppose your answer would be: " If not , How would you say that ? "


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

English doesn't make a clear-cut difference between reason (por) and goal (para). Colloquially, both questions are formed with "why", but you can clarify later when the answer is not what you expected.

  • "Why did you buy that goat?"
  • "Oh, it was on sale."
  • "No, I mean, what for? We dont need a goat."
  • "It can keep our lawn tidy!"

You can say "for what purpose" if you want, but not "with".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/joarGEOUSness

I also thought of the same thing. That's how I translated it first.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tom968478

I have some time ago come to the firm conclusion that the answers are written by a non-English speaking individual. Very annoying since much of my time is spent retyping answers to change them to ones that I know to be less correct than the one I gave.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizadeux

Would you never say "What do you need it for?" If not, how would you say that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/glenjarvis

I was about to make this same comment. I know that it is actually grammatically incorrect to end a sentence in a preposition. However, it always sounds too formal in my circles to write it in this grammatically correct way. Thus, I avoid the situation and ask "Why do you need ninety pesos?" I wish we had word bubbles here where we could create this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/glenjarvis

See my post below in response to Daniel. I was clearly wrong. I thought this was grammatically incorrect as I was scolded for doing it by a technical writer at work.

It would still be nice to have the option "Why do you need ninety pesos?" just to keep it from being a confusing question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/festinne

If "for what" is allowed then why not interchangeable form "what for" is not allowed...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

Because it's not interchangeable. Word order matters in English.

What for do you need...? makes no sense in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dlmmRE0X

I agree. This is very poor English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Julie154272

why is it not, Why do you need 90 pesos?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JessePangb

I think that would be "Por qué" instead of "Para qué"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

It can be that as well, but the question "para qué" explicitly asks for the goal of the action, the objective.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jonathan691496

So can you use "por qué" instead


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

"Por qué" asks for a reason and "para qué" asks for a purpose. If you want to know "because of what" you need the money, you can also use "por que".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alex505764

What for do you need ninety pesos - is this grammatically inacceptable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Alex, that is the case. "For" is a preposition, and as such it can only appear in front of the noun or pronoun it refers to, or at the end of the clause:

  • For what do you need ninety pesos?
  • What do you need ninety pesos for?

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Violinisti

¡Para matarme, porque yo odio mi vida!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eleniario

why is this unacceptable


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Unless you tell us what you answered, no one will be able to tell you. We can't see what you've written.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bill_Forrest

What's the difference between "por qué" and "para qué"? They both seem to mean "why" or "for what reason".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Bill, "por qué" asks for a reason, "para qué" asks for a purpose.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bill_Forrest

Hi Ryagon, Thanks for your response. I see questions similar to mine have been asked. The difference seems to be subtle but I'll try to separate out the nuance involved. I can't help thinking that "For what purpose?" is the same as "Why?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Bill, the English "why" covers both reasons ("Why are there mountains?") and purposes ("Why are you making a cake?"). There is also often an overlap, and the distinction between por and para can clear that up:

  • ¿Por qué limpias la cocina? - Porque huele.
    Why are you cleaning the kitchen? - Because it stinks.

  • ¿Para qué limpias la cocina? - Para hacerla oler menos.
    Why are you cleaning the kitchen? - To make it stink less.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bill_Forrest

Hmm, yes ... I think I see what you mean. I get the difference between por and para in that one means reason and the other indicates a recipient (though not always and not exclusively!). I appreciate your help: I just need to give it some more thought.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Retolaza3240

Supongo que el for se pone al último de la frase, por qué es precisamente una pregunta, What do you need ninety pesos for?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LGS525950

Translation is challenging. The better English translation whether you use Para or Por qué is Why? Also the real mistake is not ending a sentence with a preposition, but placing the object "what" of the preposition at the front of the sentence and not after its preposition. Yes its acceptable in short verbal speech (so would "I need ninety pesos" "What!?") However, it is quite inappropriate in your business report or school essay. In complex writing or speaking you would be creating misunderstanding and ambiguity. I very early concluded that Spanish is more elegant and precise then English even in the soldier Latin from which Spanish is derived.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

There is no reason that one shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition in English. That is not a rule. Stylistically, one avoids it to sound more formal, but that doesn't make what do you need it for? wrong.

Ending English questions with prepositions is (and has been) part of the language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rYT0C6rG

What for do you need ninety pesos?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

That's not idiomatic English. We don't say what for....?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johndevill1

For what do you need ninety pesos. not excepted 2 2021


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Laurette238638

Just : for what you need....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

For what you need makes no sense in English. You need the helping verb do.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malhar4

Why we can't use why in places of what?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AliciaDugaw

I said "what do you need ninety pesos for "and it says it is wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anil968224

Is it wrong to say, "What for do you need ninety pesos? " It is common askance over here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

It's incorrect to place a preposition directly after it's object (then it would be a postposition). In English, we sometimes move that preposition to the end with questions.

What do you need it for?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnPodkom

Gees - Why do you need 90 pesos? all the other constructs are not anything an English speaker would say. maybe.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

Native speakers use "what do....for?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nasser660882

in English you can also say: what for do you need 90 pesos


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

No, native speakers never say what for do you.... That is an unnatural word order.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HerczogMri

Why don't you accept the many native English suggestions, corrections?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Retolaza3240

Amén, ¿está en alemán?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bill_Forrest

Polish, I think. It's weird being on an English/Spanish forum.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matthew0624

Is "what for do you need ninety pesos?" really incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

It is incorrect. "For" is a preposition, which can in English be in front of the object it refers to, or at the end of the clause in some cases. You put it behind the pronoun it modifies.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jannie548460

Where do you need 90 pesos for... is wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

That is incorrect, yes. "Where" asks about a location, not a reason.

You might be thinking of "wherefore", which is an archaic question word that asks for a reason. But it would need to be one word: "Wherefore do you need ninety pesos?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bill_Forrest

Though Juliet didn't expect to be given an answer to her rhetorical lament: " ... wherefore art thou Romeo?" (a member of the family feuding with hers).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

It's not where. What...for?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eric36363

What for do you need ninety pesos? Or switching around what and for are the best translations for this and yet its wrong. Im stumped


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

What for...? is not idiomatic English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Eric, using "What for" at the beginning of a sentence is ungrammatical. "For" is a preposition, which cannot be followed by a conjugated verb. You can place the "for" either in front of "what" or at the end of the sentence.


[deactivated user]

    Ending a sentence with a preposition? Really? Does anybody at Duolingo know English?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

    There is no reason one can't end a sentence with a preposition. You won't find that imagined rule in any grammar book.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bill_Forrest

    Fowler blames the 17c poet John Dryden for starting the superstition that a preposition should never end a sentence, though he didn't always follow his own rule.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/glenjarvis

    @daniel I also originally started on this post because I felt forced into giving an answer which ended a preposition. I actually thought it was wrong. I worked with a boss approximately 20 years ago where we were creating technical training materials for a corporation. She absolutely hated ending sentences with a preposition. From that time on, I thought it was grammatically incorrect (at least technically; but we would still use it in natural conversation).

    But, after seeing your post, I went to look it up. Sure enough, it's not incorrect like I thought:

    https://www.grammarly.com/blog/youve-been-lied-to-heres-why-you-absolutely-can-end-a-sentence-with-a-preposition/

    Okay, I'm convinced. DuoLingo is helping me learn English (I'm a native speaker) as well as other languages :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HerczogMri

    What for... would be also correct English!!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

    No, it's not. Native speakers don't say what for do you need it?. It breaks a grammar rule and sounds unnatural.

    For is a preposition. It needs to go before it's object, or in the case of a question, can be moved to the end of the sentence.

    What do you need it for?

    For what do you need it?

    The second is very formal.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnupamaCha12

    "What for do you need.." is not wrong! It exactly means the same as "What do you need it for", and is alao grammatically correct.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

    It's grammatically incorrect and unnatural.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BryanA.11

    This answer is wrong. It is wrong in English to end a sentence with a preposotion.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

    It is really not. "Don't end a sentence with a preposition" is a (Latin-inspired) rule that some people tried to establish in (Germanic) English, but it never really caught on.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nEjh0qr4

    Ran across this article the other day and thought of the discussions on DL! https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2019/02/01/three-writing-rules-to-disregard/ Unfortunately, it limits itself too much, doesn't address the Oxford comma! :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

    This is a good article. I like the general approach to language here. :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/woa7dSD5

    And it's a fun read; good use of language.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paul292659

    Quit quibbling. The correct use of English precludes prepositions at the end of sentences. If we need to learn correct Spanish, why not use correct English as well. Given the constant errors and your indifference to them, I would not want to learn English from this programme.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

    That's not a rule in English and never really was. There are a few instances where it should be avoid, but this is not one of them.

    https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/11/28/grammar-myths-prepositions/

    Oxford is trustworthy to me.

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