https://www.duolingo.com/Joybomb13

Learning Irish

So, I am excited to be so far in learning Gaelic! I've been learning since last summer, or June 2017! What excites me further is that I've actually stuck to learning it! Usually it grows old and I quit, but now I'm excited! Thanks to Duolingo for helping me to learn Irish!

11 months ago

47 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/birgit72635
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Good luck to you and enjoy learning. ;-)

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marie-Clai133496

Adh mór ort!

Good luck!

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/L-C-L
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Obair mhaith! bail ó Dhia ar an obair!

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dara149001

It is not called Gaelic -call it Gaeilge or Irish

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/L-C-L
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From the Oxford dictionary: "Gaelic, another term for Irish (the language)". I call it Gaelic and I am Irish.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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Every single school day, in every Primary and Secondary school in the Republic of Ireland, just about every student takes out their Irish books to learn Irish in their Irish class (with the the possible exception of gaelscoileanna). At secondary level, the teacher is called the Irish teacher, after the subject, just like the French teacher and the Maths teacher. The school timetable, the exam papers and the textbooks all say Irish, not Gaelic, (which is may be taught in PE class).

The use of the term Gaelic to refer to the language in contemporary Ireland is something of a cultural cringe, used by people who think that the term used by foreigners must be more correct than the term that the Irish public uses, or by people who are tired explaining to foreign tourists that, "No, Irish isn't just English with an accent".

To counter your reference to an English (linguistically and geographically) dictionary, I'll quote an Irish dictionary:

Gaeilge, f. (gs. ~, pl. -gí).1. Ling: Irish.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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I wonder if the use of “Gaelic” in English for the Irish language originated from {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}Gaeḋilic (pre-reform spelling), which was used in Donegal Irish similarly to how Gaelainn (formerly {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}Gaeḋlaing) is used in Munster Irish?

EDIT #1: See the FGB entry for Gaeilge, which gives Gaeilic (apparently the reformed spelling of {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}Gaeḋilic) as a variant of Gaeilge.

EDIT #2: The earliest English source in the OED for its “the Gaelic language” definition of the noun “Gaelic” (which doesn’t distinguish between the Irish, Scottish, and Manx varieties) is Boswell, from 1775:

It is affirmed that the Gaelick (call it Erse or call it Irish) has been written in the Highlands and Hebrides for many centuries.

The pronunciation given in the OED is /ˈɡeɪlɪk/ rather than /ˈɡɑːlɪk/, /ˈɡalɪk/, or /ˈɡælɪk/.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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It's clearly a transliteration, but it's as likely to have been a transliteration of whatever form was used in Leinster Irish as a transliteration of the current Ulster form. The transliteration itself is a problem, precisely because, as you point out, there are slightly different forms used in Connacht and Muster that aren't accurately reflected in that transliteration, and the pronunciation of "Gaelic" in the term "Scottish Gaelic" is not the same as the pronunciation of "Gaelic" in the phrase "Gaelic Football", for example

It is interesting to note that even Boswell referred to it as Irish as well.

But the use of the term "Gaelic" to describe the language in Ireland today, is essentially an anachronism. The term was fairly widely used in the late 19th and early 20th centuries (Conradh na Gaeilge was "The Gaelic League" in English), but nowadays, scholars will tell you that "Scots Gaelic developed from Middle Irish", and the English speaking population of Ireland has chosen to use the translation "Irish", rather than the transliteration "Gaelic" when referring to the language.

Conradh na Gaeilge called the language "Irish" even though they use "Gaelic" in the English form of their name, as that referred to Gaelic culture, not just the language.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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The Munster form comes from a different root (I think from a tribal name) than the Connacht and Ulster forms, which both evolved from Goídelc. My guess would have been that {@style=font-family: 'Bunchlo Arsa GC', 'BunchloArsaGC', serif; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt}Gaeḋilic was reïnforced by Scottish Gaelic Gàidhlig, another descendant of Goídelc. I don’t know what name was used in Leinster Irish.

I agree that “Gaelic” as “the first national language of Ireland” has mostly disappeared in Ireland, but it is still used with this meaning in North America, where other anachronisms also remain current (e.g. “fall” for “autumn”).

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/duilinn
11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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Thanks for filling in the Leinster Irish blanks. It’s interesting to note that Gaeilge is the reformed spelling of what was originally only the genitive declension of the language’s name. Had the original nominative and dative declensions been preserved in current-day Irish, they would have had reformed spellings of Gaelg and Gaeilg respectively — and it would thus be classified as a second declension noun.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/L-C-L
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Irish is the variety of Gaelic spoken on the island of Ireland. There are also Scottish and Manx varieties of Gaelic.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sllewell2
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As long as we learn the language, I wouldn't worry too much about trifles. (Is German called German, or Deutsch, or "Allemand"?) I will just say Gaeilge, or Irish, until someone splashes a Guinness in my face . . .

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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German people refer to their own language as "German" when speaking English and "Deutsch" when speaking German.

Nobody is going to waste their time or money splashing Guinness in your face.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marie-Clai133496

Hum...Sllewell, I have found that in Ireland people can be a bit touchy about anything touching about let's call it "the identity language"! Just read Satharn's posts....

But I'd say you can enjoy your Guinness safely...

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Windsaw

Every german expects the german language to be called "German" in an english contexts. It sounds extremely odd if the word "Deutsch" is used in an english sentence.

Speaking of German:

I have an German-Irish teaching book which is called "Irisch für Anfänger" (Irish for Beginners).

I also have a dictionary which is called "Wörterbuch Irisch-Deutsch".

Then there is one slim book called "Irisch-Gälisch" (so basically "Irish-Gaelic") from a book series that introduces non-learners to a language. The series had books on 137 different languages! Anyway, the scottish equivalent was "Schottisch-Gälisch".

In my personal experience, about a third of the people that I tell that I am learning "Irisch" think I am learning how to speak English with an irish accent. Everybody knows that "Gälisch" means some celtic language but usually can't pin it down if it means the irish or scottish one or both. A few even think that it means celtic languages in general and add Welsh to the list. In order to avoid confusions, I tend to say "Irisch-Gälisch" when in doubt.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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Irish is the variety of Gaelic spoken on the island of Ireland. There are also Scottish and Manx varieties of Gaelic. I will continue to use use the word Gaelic proudly and not allow myself to be bullied by the small minded and ill-educated.

Just as English is the variety of West Germanic that is spoken in England, and French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese are all varieties of Romance languages.

You are more than welcome to remain proudly out of step (and out of touch) with the vast majority of Irish speakers, and the "ill-educated" Universities in Ireland, who have Irish Departments and Schools of Irish, rather than Gaelic Departments, while you march to the beat of your own drum, tugging your forelock to your betters in Oxford on this point.

Nobody really cares what you call it, they just care that you don't mislead anyone else on the matter. People who don't know much about Ireland or the Irish language deserve better than to be misled on this issue - the term "Gaelic" isn't used much for the language in Ireland, you will be understood if you use the term, but you will have indicated that you're at best a bit out of touch on the topic (or "ill-educated", if you prefer).

(I note that L-C-L has quietly deleted his original description of the vast majority of Irish people who choose to call the language "Irish" rather than Gaelic as "small minded and ill-educated". The quote at the start of this post is from his original post, before he edited it).

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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Neither the Caighdeán or the Government has anything to do with it. The ordinary Irish person in the street calls the language Irish, and will consider you a bit odd if you insist on talking about "Gaelic", but Irish people are very accommodating of weirdos, and they'll generally leave you be, unless you make a nuisance of yourself.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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I wouldn't worry about it too much, L-C-L.

After all, according to you, the people who disagree with you about this are "small minded and ill-educated".

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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Your analogy fails in that the Romance and Germanic languages are mutually unintelligible whereas the Gaelic tongues are not.

Have you ever been in the company of someone from Spain and someone from Portugal at the same time? Or even a Spaniard and an Italian?

(That's a rhetorical question. You obviously haven't).

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/L-C-L
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Your analogy fails in that the Romance and Germanic languages are mutually unintelligible whereas the Gaelic tongues are not. Furthermore, the Romance and Germanic tongues do not share such a strong cultural tradition as that of the Gaels.

From the venerable Dineen:

"gaedhilge, f., the Irish language; Gaelic;"

https://celt.ucc.ie//Dinneen1.pdf p.323

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marie-Clai133496

Bhuel, I am not irish but I live in the North of Ireland.

Everybody in the Irish language community here seems to refer to "the Irish language".

The only people who would use the word "gaelic" or "gaeilge" (They say "the gaeilig") in my experience are people not connected to the language/culture.

However, that's just an observation about everyday use...

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marie-Clai133496

But then again, John O'Donohue in his book "anam chara" refers to "the Gaelic word" ...

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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John O'Donohue wrote that for the benefit of people outside Ireland who have no experience of the language.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marie-Clai133496

It is a possibility.

I'd say "the Gaelic word" is simply more in tune with the spiritual and poetic atmosphere of the book, coming to think of it. And clearer to all.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dara149001

What language is Irish most closely related to?

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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Scottish Gaelic. (Manx Gaelic might be as close, but its orthography was influenced more by that of Welsh, so Scottish Gaelic is easier to read for someone who is accustomed to Irish orthography.)

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dara149001

Do you know where you can buy Irish story books for intermediate learners?(sorry for all the questions)

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dara149001

Thanks

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dara149001

Can someone explain what an antecedent object is please

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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With no idea of what context you encountered the phrase, it's an object that refers back (ante) to something earlier in the sentence or phrase.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dara149001

Does anyone know why it is “ní féidir liom é a fheiceáil” and not “ní féidir liom á fheiceáil”.I thought that the object and the verbal noun contracted.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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There are two words spelled a that can be associated with a verbal noun with an object: one is a preposition, and the other is a possessive adjective. It’s the latter that contracts do + a to á, e.g. Táim á thabhairt (“I am bringing it”, more literally “I am to its bringing”). A pronomial verbal noun object doesn’t combine with the preposition a, as in your example.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marie-Clai133496

If I may put it simply ( I am only a beginner ), this "á" form ( contracted) can only be used in the present progressive:

Ní féidir liom sibh a chloisteal= I can't hear you.

But: Níl mé do bhur gcloisteal = I am not hearing you= progressive form.

It should have been written clearly in the tips and notes.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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The á form could also be used in the past progressive (e.g. Ní raibh mé á cloisteal, “I wasn’t hearing her”) and the future progressive (e.g. Ní bheidh mé á gcloisteal, “I shall not be hearing them”) as well as in the present progressive.

There’s one relevant structure that uses á but is typically translated with an English infinitive. An example of it is Tagaim anseo á foghlaim (“I come here (in order) to learn it”, more literally “I come here for its learning”).

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Marie-Clai133496

Thanks scilling. Yes, it does make sense that the form is also used in the past and future progressive tenses. And that structure could be handy...

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dara149001

Is tiny cards going to introduce Irish?

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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"Tinycards" isn't a course, it's a tool that users can use to create flashcard decks. Lots of people have created Tinycard decks for Irish.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dara149001

But Duolingo has created a course for many languages ,I am wondering will Duolingo create a course

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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Compare the list of languages that Duolingo created a Tinycards course for and the list of languages that Duolingo created a Duolingo course for (Duolingo did not create the Irish course - like the majority of the Duolingo courses, Irish was developed in the incubator by a team of volunteer contributors).

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dara149001

Should you learn off the gender off each noun or is there a way of telling wether it is masculine or feminine?

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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It’s best to learn both the gender and the genitive singular form of each noun, since the gender can influence initial mutations, and the genitive singular form determines which declension it belongs to (which in turn can help determine the vocative singular form and the plural forms).

Some “shortcuts” exist, e.g. every second declension noun is feminine except for im, sliabh, and teach, but the “rules of thumb” for knowing a noun’s gender without also knowing its declension (see this discussion) aren’t 100% accurate.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dara149001

Do they examine the ‘tuiseal Ginideach’ in the junior Cert?

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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You probably won't find questions about the Tuiseal Ginideach on the exam paper, but you will be expected to use the appropriate Tuiseal Ginideach forms in your answers, and you'll be marked accordingly.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Dara149001

Does anyone know why the word ‘Éire’ is never in its original form in context,I asked my Irish teacher and he reluctantly said that it was the ‘aidiacht something’(he doesnt like grammar).Can someone try explqin this to me

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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Irish sometimes replaces the original nominative declensions of nouns with declensions that weren’t originally nominative. Gaeilge, originally the genitive declension of Gaelg, is one example that was noted here; Éirinn and Albain, originally the dative declensions of Éire and Alba respectively, are other examples. Since these are nouns, I’m not sure why your teacher mentioned adjectives; adjectives such as Éireannach and Albanach reflect the genitive noun declensions Éireann and Alban.

11 months ago
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