https://www.duolingo.com/Nicholas653498

Which one and why?

Ich habe versucht Deutsch zu sprechen.

Ich habe Deutsch sprechen versucht.

Ich habe Deutsch zu sprechen versucht.

March 13, 2018

8 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/ElliottofRivia

The first one. "Ich habe versucht, Deutsch zu sprechen." Technically, the comma between the clauses is required/not optional. Why?

There are two clauses here. "I tried/I have tried". That's a complete clause which is followed up with a comma to separate it from the next clause. The second clause is an infinitive clause, meaning it uses "zu (verb)" at the end of the sentence AND has no subject (re)stated... as in, it doesn't say "ich" again. It's just "...to speak German." with no actor specifically (re)stated. The "zu (verb)" is always at the end of a clause... always. Therefore, "Ich habe versucht, Deutsch zu sprechen."

March 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/7hAu0bvY

the third one is correct as well. so 1. and 3. i can't give an proper explanation of why though since i as a native german speaker never really thought about grammer in german language.

March 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Todd50
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ElliottoRiva, is there a link you could share that explains clauses and the use of the comma in German. This was very helpful, and its totally missing in my developing knowledge of German. WIthout that all-important comma, #1 is wrong.

March 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Marie973350
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I can't give you an explanation, but the first version is the correct one.

March 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Todd50
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I can explain why #3 is (also) correct. Here's a bit of grammar. (1) The conjugated verb always takes the 2nd place in word order. (2) All additional verb information (in your case, the past participle) gets shoved to the end, or final position, of the clause. (3) Therefore, the past participle of your sentence (versucht) bumps the infinitive clause (zu sprechen) up a spot from the last position. (4) Finally, the direct or indirect object (in this case, Deutsch) comes after the conjugated verb. So you get: ich - habe - Deutsch - zu sprechen - versucht.

March 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ElliottofRivia

I see where you're coming from, but I don't entirely agree. As far as (1) goes, I agree. However, insofar as (2) and (3) are concerned, you're treating "Deutsch zu sprechen" as you would, for example, objects or adverbs, and it's neither: it's an infinitive clause. Infinitive clauses can (at least in my experience, so someone please correct me if I don't know this yet) only go in their own separate clause after a comma, or essentially replace the subject in first position. For example: Deutsch zu sprechen ist mein Ziel (however, that's not what's happening here).

It makes sense that "to speak German" is an independent thing that one can "try", perhaps with an unspecific pronoun to refer to it like "it", for example: Ich habe es versucht. Here, you'd be right, and that'd be fine. But as an infinitive clause, no, it doesn't work.

March 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Todd50
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Thanks ElliottofRivia. I did find in Hammer's German Grammar and Usage mention of "enclosure of the infinitive clause," but I can't say if it applies to this.

March 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ElliottofRivia

I'd be interested to know: news to me. I'm by no means an expert, so I'm totally open to a new way to do this if it exists. :)

March 14, 2018
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