Where are the instructions for new skill levels/crowns?
Having just recommended Duolingo to several people, when they started, they all have numbered crowns tagged onto each skill (circle/subject) on the tree, and despite various searches, I have only been able to find a brief pre-launch announcement about the new system.
Can anyone tell me if there are updated "instructions for use" somewhere, which give the full details of how to use it? As an existing user, I cannot even try it out to be able to explain. Thanks.
P.S. If you use the expression "level up" in your answer, maybe you can confirm that means "strengthen skills".
I've put together some screen shots.
The tree looks the same as before, but instead of "strength bars" there are crowns. You can earn from one to five crowns for each skill set. Skills that have five crowns are gold, unlocked skills with less than five crowns are colorful, and unlocked skills are gray:
When you first begin a skill, you are at level 0 and there are few lessons to complete to earn a crown. The number of lessons varies from skill to skill. This one has particularly few lessons:
Click the "start" button to do a lesson. The light bulb takes you to Tips Notes.
The first level lessons are relatively easy. The exercises are recognition exercises, like word banks and select correct translations. You can switch between keyboard and word bank by clicking the link at the bottom of the screen; the word bank is easier:
You can still report errors and read sentence discussions after submitting your answer:
On the web, when you finish a lesson you get the chance to review it:
After you have done all the lessons in the lowest level for the skill, you get a crown and this is level 1:
You earn lingots when you level up:
As your levels increase, you have to complete more lessons to level up, and the exercises get more difficult. This skill started with more than 2 lessons at "level 0" but I can't remember how many. Now at level 3 I need to do 24 lessons to get to level 4:
The exercises are harder. Some word banks to translate from native to target language, some "Write this in your native language".
By the top levels, the exercises are more challenging still. "Type what you hear" and speaking exercises.
The top of your home page shows your total number of crowns where the fluency meter used to be:
Thanks very much indeed for the detailed reply. I didn't put my comment in "troubleshooting" initially, because this was not offered in the dropdown menu. Presumably, you have to go to the troubleshooting discussion topic first, but I had not even noticed it mentioned lower down the screen on the right. Just a suggestion, but maybe it could be added to the menu? I realised my choice was not satisfactory, but did not see another option.
Regarding the crowns, in the past we regularly strengthened skills we had already completed when they lost "strength" and changed from gold to a colour again. Maybe we strengthen each skill 20 times before finishing the tree? So we do lessons 1, 2, 3, 4 for example, plus strengthen 20 times, = 24 lessons in all for one skill. Now you say "Now at level 3 I need to do 24 lessons to get to level 4". So we do the initial 4 lessons to get one crown, plus 10? lessons to have two crowns for the same skill, then 16? lessons to get three crowns, 24 to get four crowns, 30? to get five crowns, which would give a total of 84 lessons on one skill. The numbers are pure guesswork, of course, but it seems to represent a big increase in the number of lessons necessary to finish the tree, or am I misunderstanding?
Last point: is there a recommendation about whether to get the full 5 crowns on one skill before continuing? Up till now, "to strengthen, or not to strengthen" was automatic. If it's not gold, we revise it. Maybe now we need to choose?
Thanks for moving the discussion :)
Yes, you understand perfectly: each skill will have a set number of lessons to get to level one (one crown), more to get to level two, more for three, more for four, and even more for the final crown. The number increases at each level. However, one skill might require lots of lessons between each level and another skill might require fewer lessons between each level. It's kind of like the old format, where some skills had one lesson inside and others had ten.
It is a HUGE increase in lessons to finish the tree with everything gold - however, you are perfectly free to go through the entire tree at level one if you like. Then you might want to go through again and get everything to two. Then you might only want to focus on a few trouble areas and get only a few skills to level three. You might not care to go to level five.
Right now, as you can see from my screen shots, I'm working sets of skills in tiers:
4 - 5
3 - 4
2 - 3
1 - 2
Newly unlocked - 1
I just kind of start at the top of my skills-in-progress and work my way down. This gives me plenty of variety in content and difficulty level. It wasn't my idea, someone else suggested it when we were beta testing, but I like it a lot.
I think if I tried to work a skill set from zero to five I'd get absolutely sick and tired of it before I was done. It's just way too much of one thing (for me). On the other hand, I think if I did the whole tree to level 1, then level 2, that might work out okay but I think I might become depressed as my "progress" slowed at the higher levels.
It is a lot more work, no question about it, but I am VERY motivated by starting out super easy - no frustrations with new skills, and no feeling overwhelmed. Then as I move into higher and higher levels things become more second nature and I welcome the harder skills. I can literally see my improvement over the course of a few days, and it's intoxicating.
I'm actually replying to this comment by @W-Ruggles-Wolfe (nested too deeply, no Reply button underneath it
EDIT: Derp derp, I do see a reply button now, somehow I missed it..? Oh well! :)
(I just tested... in the new system, using "general strengthening" doesn't change any of the lesson counts .)
This is what I think I'm seeing too. I'm not necessarily demotivated by it and will continue to use the general Practice button because I like that it gives me what it thinks I need to work on, but.. all the same, it'd be nice if the exercises there would translate into one "Completed Lesson" for a Crown, I guess, to help gauge my own progress. It's not a deal-breaker for me by any means, my goal is to learn and not to accumulate crowns or points or streaks or whatever, but the points/crowns/streaks act as proxies for gauging my own progress as well as indicators for what I need to work on or can work on next.
For context, I aim for 50XP per day, and I have gotten into a rhythm which works well for me: 1 Lesson in a skill that isn't completed, and then 4 Lessons in Practice (never Timed, always Without a Timer).
Anyway, if it can be shown to me in some official documentation somewhere that doing Practice does indeed lead to Crown Lessons being completed, that would be a "bonus" to me and my personal learning style.
I think Thomas.Heiss has interesting points.
- Given the new structure and incentive system (crowns), is there sufficient incentive to use the "general strengthening" process?
Before, I was happy to use it because it built up my XPs while also throwing wild cards at me. It was closer to what one will get in everyday use.
Now I'm motived to keep all of my practice focused on specific skills. It is so "expensive" to level up in any skill, the 10 XP points from "general" work isn't very enticing
(I just tested... in the new system, using "general strengthening" doesn't change any of the lesson counts .)
- Oh. I want SRS back.... All human beings tend to repeat the things that they are good at. And, I am very human (grin!)
[And again, my now-standard comment that I am not complaining. I'm an ex-software type who thinks that DL is very useful. I only comment on things I believe have value.]
The ordinary reply nesting max is six levels, which has been reached here, but there is a bug where it continues to show up under certain conditions.
I'm inclined to think it would be great if the practices from the overall strengthen button "counted" for attaining crowns, but Duolingo has always sort of set out the idea that that button doesn't just focus on one skill at a time. In practice, the veracity of this has long been somewhat dubious, but I doubt they necessarily fell like abandoning it. I'd be happy to see them just introduce fractional increments if such a practice covers more than one skill, but somehow I don't think this is a likely tack.
Lrtward, you mean the global "Strenghten skills" button http://duolingo.com/practice?
Has it's code been re-engineered from scratch too?
We all know that the most of the time the implemented suboptimal algorithm (I hardly believe there is any algo) just picked the first NON-GOLDEN skill from the top of your tree.
The Scala re-write did NOT improve anything over the old Python code!
I definitely miss a (starting or permanent) setting (question) where this button works from the bottom to the top of the tree :-)
The direct URL is nice as you can REPEAT the strengthen a 2nd time and the code chooses a new skill (non-golden: from top to down).
I seem NOT be able to reach the below 1/3 more difficult (e.g grammar) skills in my EN-PT tree with that, as it focuses very much on the upper skills.
And once I have strengthened the upper skills, they will decay at a time and required re-strengthening; especially if I do not really put many XPs/day or week into it to make faster progress (300-350XP is not enough).
Practically I could NOT use this global strengthen skills button to go 100% down in my tree or strengthen 10-15 skills all at once by mixing RANDOM week/difficult words and sentences from multiple grammar tense skills.
But we know that: These have always been the limitations for the past 1,5 years (I started October 2016), even on the new Scala portal rolled out February 2017!
If we want to strengthen words and practice specific grammar, instead we have to select a skill (with help of "Trim tree", "DuoLingo skill strength viewer), open it and use the specific skill strengthen button there in the "old system".
If you do not do that and you won't put MANY XPs per week/months in a defined timerange, you effectively will never reach the bottom of your tree.
glad i got my full course gold achievement just a week or so before this came out xD
Indeed I worked each level through the entire tree and when I got to doing level because there are so many repetive questions to answer which for me was rather tedious I opted for working through on skip level 4 to get to 5 only 2 possibly 3 of which failed in which case I immediately repeated the process which worked for me till I had all golden and now I repeat the lesson 10 from the top of treeand one from the bottom seems to work expect mostlly even though sometimes every answer is correct my Xps are contanly not being added to my tally I in fact have had large numbers of Xps subtracted from my totals rather fruastrating but I realy am here to learn a language not really to keep a check on my xps or lingots and I simply maintain my streak to motivate me to work every day and I havee 3000 lingot and no idae what on earth will I do with them .
On your last point, personally I try to get 3-4 crowns for each skill. For the less important ones (at least for me personally) like animals, I left it at 2 crowns.
I recommend not worrying too much about the skill levels, and just doing as many as you think you need to get a good grasp of it.
It's maybe worth mentioning that of the five adult learners who started on Duo last week and used the new system, all had completed several skills by the end of the week, but they all had only one crown for each skill, didn't understand why it indicated 0/3 lessons completed when they had apparently done all the lessons for that skill, and none had realised it was necessary or possible to obtain more crowns.
I would also suggest
requiring that a user to view the announcement page as part of the migration process. (Maybe even an acknowledge button at the bottom of the info... same as user agreements.)
clipping a link to the announcement/how-it-works-info at the top of the tree once a user is migrated.
Might cut down on forum traffic.
Hey I just feel I've lost my progress with this feature. Why should I return to the very basic? It seems pointless because I've always studied the old and new lessons, so all of them were gold. Can I return to the old version, or is there a way to make the exercises match my level again?
If you kept your tree gold, it means you did return at least occasionally to the beginning lessons up to now. Whether that was useful or not is a separate question. Whether it would be useful now, with presumably higher levels of translation into the target language is another question yet.
is there a way to make the exercises match my level again?
Just choose the ones you know you need to work on? Intersperse others, perhaps with a general plan to move through the levels gradually in a somewhat even manner?
Obviously it DOES need some instructions: Why do you think there areso many postings asking and complaining about it? What is intuitive to some is opaque to others. As a minor example, it took me a moment and a re-consideration of a number of posts to know that "gold" refers to the orange things that I would not have known were crowns with-out your mentioning them.
nice of you to provide the explanation that was requested.........but we really could do without the introductory 'you really don't need this explanation that you asked for because it is so obvious' message..... if it was so obvious you wouldn't see so many people asking the questions.....and it gets a bit tiresome to ask a question and be told that we should understand it without asking......just saying.......it discourages people from asking and somehow this 'everything is so obvious' message gets thrown back at people an awful lot when they ask a question.......
Is there a published target date for the web rollout? By language?
The announcement mentions "the beginning of the year", which seems out of date at this point.
I've finished my French tree and am looking forward to the new structure. Is there a way I can request the new tree?
Quote Lrtward: "When I got the crowns system, it affected ALL of my courses simultaneously, even the ones that I am taking from Spanish or French."
Thank you so much.
This is the information I was desperately looking forward.
The message notifier "Introducing Crown Levels: Get five times more exercises and reach higher fluency as you level up." with the blue "Update now" button did - of course - NOT tell, that it is an all or nothing approach.
As this message pops up on EACH of my courses (I also checked for DE-EN and EN-DE) I would have personally expected (as an IT specialist and developer) I could selectively choose the BETA "Crown level" update for not more than 1-2 forward trees to try it out.
So this is obviously not the case....
I will CANCEL the update on the web portal and wait for the "final product" after ~6-12 months.
Maybe they add a better conversion algorithm which straight jumps over levels 1, 2 and 3 and just activates level 5 for future strengthen exercises and randomly shows some of the more difficult translation sentences (which we all want to see on the web portal; typing (in L2) = RECALLING):
That could have probably been the other implemention choice instead of having to do re-do ALL lessons step-by-step and level-ups.
It was said in 1-2 other threads, that most skills will be set to levels 2 or 3 after the conversion, and some more recently strengthened (golden) skills will be even set to "Crown level 1".
This is definitely not what I was looking forward for my EN-PT forward tree I have been daily working on for ~1,5 years.
I am also looking forward to a SRS for (useful) sentences, even I use Memrise for word SR reviews already.
I better stick to the stuff which I know how to work with, especially for PT grammar skills (if I can somehow reactivate all the non-working user scripts since 20 March 2018) and finish my two reverse PT trees first.
Let's see what new brilliant features or re-engineering come(s) in 2019....for sure there is some room for further improvements.
I began using Duolingo last week. It started up with the crown format. Now that I find out that this is actually a new format, I realize now why some of the discussions I've been reading didn't quite make sense! I've decided to work on one checkpoint level at a time. I have a couple of gold skills and try to practice the finished skills each day. I'm really enjoying the Duolingo experience!
does any reverse tree course of you have this A/B skill crown level activiated?
If yes, how well does it work for it?
Is there a special "reverse tree / forward tree / laddering tree" setting?
Quote: As your levels increase, you have to complete more lessons to level up, and the exercises get more difficult.
The exercises are harder. Some word banks to translate from native to target language, some "Write this in your native language".
My biggest problem with the PT-DE course for example is, that those "select/fill in the word bank" exercises are for German, not for Portuguese.
I want to practice Portuguese with the reverse tree, but I do get too many "German only" exercises because way too many different challenge exercises have been added last year.
You can not focus for yourself on typing / translation on the web portal anymore and turn all other challenges OFF :(
My bigger fear:
Adding the complexity of "Skill crown levels" from 0 to 5 will drive me more and more away with sentences from Portuguese (RECALLING) - including typing translations on the web portal - for my reverse tree PT-DE or PT-EN instead of "getting more and more difficult for the L1 Portuguese".
So theoretically (PT-) L2 German should get more and more difficult either by challenge type, sentence length or vocabulary...
I have nothing against additional challenges like "fill in the blank", select the right verb conjugation option IF I can set it up to behaving like the forward EN-PT tree (where those newer challenges have also recently been added for me on the web portal in 2018).
This is OK but I definitely miss the PT sound: Camilo's user script "DuoLingo tree enhancer" does not work yet for ALL challenge types!
So my interesting question:
How do you workaround these forseen pittfalls with the A/B test rollout for some/all your reverse/laddering courses?
Good thing: Starting 20 March 2018 they are asking me if I want to "Upgrade now" to the "Crown levels".
They do for both EN-PT and PT-DE / PT-EN.
So at least I have the choice to (hopefully) ignore this BETA test for the next 6-12 month until I have actually finished my reverse trees.
I had finished my French tree several weeks ago, and have been gelding it daily ever since.
Earlier today "upgraded" to the crowns structure.
My take so far (NB: I'm a recovering software type, so I'm used to beta software. None of my comments should be taken as complaints):
My tree was complete and 100% golden when I upgraded. I had ~18,650 XP points and was at level 21.
The new tree set me back to zero on 9 of the 78 skills, which felt a bit odd. Some of them are skills I know I strengthened, even when they were gold. Should anyone be interested, the 9 skills set to zero experience are: (Prepos. 3 / Pluperfect / Subj. Pre. / Education / Imperative / Science / Transport. / Economics / Sports)
This morning, I worked the first three skills to completion at level 5. For someone starting from scratch, it would take 480 XP to take Basics 1 to L5, 600 XP for Basics 2 to L5, 480 XP for Phrases to L5.
I have been working on one of the skills which was set back to zero. I recognize the majority of the sentences, so I don't understand why I got bumped back down to zero.
I also worked on one of the last skills, taking it from L2 to L3. So far, I haven't felt that there is much difference in the "levels" inside a skill. In fact, I was given the same sentences in my first round of L3. I'll admit that was odd.
I haven't been paying attention to lingots. I'll pay better attention tomorrow. If I see anything interesting, I'll post a follow-up.
My last comment is I'm surprised at how many XP points it takes to get a skill to L5. Here's why: for the French tree, there are 78 skills, Assuming that taking each skill to L5 will require approximately the same number of XP points as the first three skills took (I'm going to guess an average of ~ 550XP/skill)... That means that it takes 42,900 XP points to finish the tree (78 skills * 550XP/skill = 42,900 XP points).
The good news is that the French I learned using the previous tree system is still in my brain. I have a sense of humor about the nine skills being set to zero (I grinned when I saw that the "subjunctive present" skill was set to zero, but the "subjunctive past" skill was set to L2.)
Meanwhile, I'm headed back to study French!
It's a little strange that some of your skills were set to zero, because I finished the French tree a little over a month ago, and I've been working on strengthening, but when I switched to crowns, all of the skills had at least 1 crown. I've been strengthening from the bottom up, maybe that has something to do with it?
Quote: Starting 20 March 2018 they are asking me if I want to "Upgrade now" to the "Crown levels".
I am taking my previous statement back!! Actually they FORCED me in April into crowns, like everyone else - they revised their 10% A/B testing decision.
And the best: Their crown conversion code failed for 39-44 skills!
[Crown conversion BUG] Not a single L3 skill; 39 golden skills wrongly migrated to L2 for 1,5 years old tree (daily practiced): https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26853820
This is my biggest fear as well. I'm currently about 3/4 of the way down the English for Spanish speakers tree. It's currently about the right level of difficulty for me as I need to answer mostly in Spanish. I don't want translate into English or say it in English exercises to increase.
I get my speaking and listening to Spanish outside of Duolingo, so I wonder how the higher levels for each skill will function if you turn off the speaking and listening exercises.
Thanks so much for this!
So lingots are awarded for finishing the lessons in a skill the first time through and then for every subsequent crown level attained?
The partial golden band around Present 2 I assume corresponds to the 15 out of 24 lessons you've completed to get to level 3 in that skill. Does that mean that you've done 0 out of however many lessons to get to level 3 in Adjectives 2 and Pronouns?
Thanks for this. I had been confused with one version on mobile app the other on web but now I have the same on both and with your explanation it all makes sense. One question: I am in the habit of doing a quick run-through of the lesson/s I plan to do the next day so that when I actually study them they are not totally unfamiliar. Since I haven't really studied them at that point I'm not really wanting to move on to a more difficult version. As far as I can see there now seems to be no way to repeat the lessons beyond the "review lesson" option at the end of the lesson. Am I missing something?
No, you can use Memrise Duolingo Hebrew, it's only vocab. You can do it as Memrise or they list vocab grouped by Duolingo skill: http://www.memrise.com/course/1031737/hebrew-duolingo . You can also find them on the fandom wiki Hebrew Duolingo, The whole course is here (and the site has one for each Duolingo language): http://duolingo.wikia.com/wiki/Hebrew
You can click on them later to redo, or just for vocab most are at Memrise Duolingo ( language) like: http://www.memrise.com/course/1031737/hebrew-duolingo Duolingo tinycards I think has similar
Lrtward, "You can earn from one to five crowns for each skill set. Skills that have five crowns are gold, UNLOCKED SKILLS WITH LESS THAN FIVE CROWNS ARE COLORFUL [emphasis added], and unlocked skills are gray." --Apparently, this is inaccurate. My German-from-English tree was all gold. Now only two bubbles are gold, and they each have only 1 crown. I suspect that's because for those two bubbles (Idioms and Flirting) 1 crown is the maximum.
Is the following accurate?: Most skills or bubbles can have a maximum of 5 crowns. When a bubble reaches its maximum number of crowns, it turns gold.
I have never seen a microphone less on the Hebrew course, and as you can see from my profile, I've used it a lot.
I believe - although I am just a fellow user so the proverbial pinch of salt should be used here - that it's necessary for a course to use a TTS in order for speaking exercises to be available, and even then I don't think all of them have speaking exercises.
If you are able to use the course on a mobile device, several of those will have dictation options for the Hebrew keyboard (I know this is true on iOS); if you use the microphone to dictate your answers, you can get speaking practice, and in my experience, the voice recognition is far far better than Duolingo's 'own brand' VR, which in some languages tells native speakers they're pronouncing things wrong and in others will say "Okay" to literal gobbledegook that is said I'm roughly the right rhythm. (Yes, I've tested it.)
I strongly suggest repeating the sentences back without prompting anyway, regardless of what Duolingo asks of you. Just as much practice (well, more actually) as if there were oral questions, and you're not missing out on any reading/typing/etc practice.
I think you should repost this in it's own thread! This was exactly every question I had and was looking for in an MO for this new feature
There's no lightbulb. You cannot get the tips /instructions in the app. You can only see discussions for the group you joined, you can only belong to one. There is a limit to total members, mine is full. It's only seen by app users I cannot find it on browser. Discussions per questions, comments you leave are frequently not posted or they are and you can't tell. Hence why you might find some people frequently duplicating their post, we can't see it. I thought there was something wrong, I was through five skills before I noticed people referring to the notes. The skills can be way too tedious. Food 1, level 4 was FORTY TIMES. I THINK THE food one was 200 overall. I couldn't figure out why the same skill would be a fifth of the length on the website... and still there's no way to see tips. I only go so far, because i coincidentally started Duolingo Hebrew in vocab on Memrise the month before.... I I posted the crowns update on the board I'm on and two people on the app, mac, basically said ooh tips? Crowns?
Yeah no i don't see this either. Thanks for responding..and it was supposed to be on android app first... The idea that android has no way to get the tips, you can't even use microphone for Hebrew course.. Is imho half baked. Meanwhile, food one, I think it was 150 go rounds to get to level five.... my xp was crazy high (I thought it really weird) compared to rest of club members... I was the only one using CROWNS.
The microphone exercises are not worth worrying about - repeat the Hebrew/read it as best you can when there's no audio, and you will get as least as beneficial a practice as you would get. The inbuilt VR on Duolingo is variable to put it charitably. You're not missing out. (It's not available for Hebrew on iOS either, but I've tried it on a number of other languages.)
If you're really desperate to be prompted to speak, have a look and see if there's an option to dictate rather than type on your device. There's a reasonable chance the VR on your Android is better than DL's anyway, to be perfectly honest.
I know the feeling. To my eye, it is a UI design "thing".
This morning, I suddenly realized why I felt behind and wasn't excited about earning crowns.
So I sat down and made this mock-up. I suddenly felt better:
(Yes, I'm not a pro at editing images. Grin!)
I wonder if DL considered this, or something similar, for the UI design??
Edit: Basically, I'm borrowing from the MB high mileage awards.
The original announcement of skill levels said they were still working on incorporating SRS into the system. I wouldn't be surprised if gilding things below level 5 returns when they actually manage to do that.
It might be a bigger challenge than it sounds like (i.e. not just a matter of coding, although I'm sure that's no small matter itself) because Duolingo won't make changes that decrease usage (unless there's some offsetting reason like increased revenue), and I suspect the degilding demotivated plenty of users, too. Sure, the ones who stuck around mostly like it, but that's about the clearest case of selection bias one could construct.
From this thread: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26652266$comment_id=26653091
Quote Purva1405: I can tell you why you can't see crowns for languages you are already learning.
The crown's system requires to know how many times you have individually completed each skill.
That's not possible to know when you have already completed some part of your language tree
Why is that not possible to know?
DuoLingo SHOULD know what words AND sentences it has presented to you and what strength you had (for single words).
So somehow DuoLingo will have "to guess" what crown level 1, 2 or 3 you might have reached for a single skill, if you have reached language level e.g 20-25, you have practiced / strengthened for 1-1,5 years++, etc.:
Either they set ALL skills to crown level 1 completed:
This would mean that the next time you have to re-do lessons the sentences and exercise challenges get even more easy than before (especially true for reverse trees).
They try to guess crown level 2 or 3 and set it differently (e.g random) for specific skills based on some "upgrade / converting algorithm".
I am not sure if their system was really that intelligent before, to correctly "flag" sentences as seen / accomplished or not.
Well, many people complained that the same sentences and phrases repeat over and over again and more difficult content (even available for e.g web portal multiple choice, Android app tapping) was - always - left out.
And there are even NEW bugs in the system in 2018 that I am seeing the very SAME questions multiple times (repeats, even if correct) in the same strengthen session!!!
Matfran wrote in 2017 a great summary in one thread about his experiences (can't remember the title or link), that there is a maximum count of sentences.
So somehow DuoLingo had to make those available sentence from the database sequential OR random.
If you test out or do the placement test, you might not see all words and all sentences.
If you go skill by skill, lesson by lesson through your tree, you might see MORE words and available sentences.
I also believe that strengthen buttons brought up (sometimes) new sentences (and words), however those were pretty much limited as a course moderator/contributor confirmed to me in 2017 as they were reserved for special exercise challenges and were not (all) made available for typing translations on the web portal.
I would love to read an offical statement from staff how their "crown level upgrade/converting algorithm" was coded or from A/B testing moderators to what crown levels 1, 2 or 3 many skills in a completed tree (golden owl, or fully golden tree) will be converted.
Wouldn't it be VERY BORING after conversion when the mid-difficult level before was e.g three, you have all time played around with sentences for 1-1,5 years on the web portal of that difficulty and now you have to go back to re-do all lessons (easier sentences) of crown level 2???
they are already talking in this thread....but honestely I think there is (at the moment) no way....but as it is requested more than one time...maybe staff adds something like this?
"Is there a way to turn off crowns?": https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26651173
The really bad thing is IMHO, as pointed previously out, that it is NOTa feature for just one selected individual course/tree but crown levels are valid once activated for ALL courses (incl. reverse trees / different base languages).
Hard to believe you can switch back to the old strengthen system, once upgraded/converted.
Have you tried the whitelist workaround
Can't remember the last thread about crowns where I wrote it for testing.
Out of interest, the crowns only appeared for me when I logged into the desktop version (I use the mobile app usually) and changed a few settings.
Going back to the app later, without updating it, I could see that my tree was now on the crowns system - earlier sections of the tree were already level 3, further down level 2, and the most recent skills id worked on were level 1.
It seems to have remembered the three/four times that I've started to work through the whole thing from scratch; getting a little further each time.
Still not sure how I feel about it though. I would like a mixture of the current crown levelling system and the old 'de-gilding' of skills that haven't been practiced in a while. (though what's the point in accumulating my current 99 crowns? What are they even for? I have an xp amount that represents essentially the same thing. Per skill, I quite like them, though.)
What's the point in crowns vs XP points: crowns cannot be faked so easily. Some (very few) people are still getting massive amounts of XP points in no time, I think I have seen someone making more than four million points in one day - they seem to be abusing some bugs in Duolingo. With crowns they would have to revisit each and every skill and they didn't bother doing that.
So, crowns hold a much better value in terms of ranking, and even if you don't care about rankings at all, crowns still give you a much better idea about your progress. Theoretically, you could get over 30K points / Level 25 in any language by practicing just one single lesson, without actually (ever) completing the tree. With crowns - you cannot do that.
There used to be a cheat whereby one could accumulate Immersion XP in a different language. I recall one genius boasting they had got to level 25 in Hebrew that way having done only a few lessons and being surprised people weren't impressed.
I think there are fewer obvious cheats these days, but I would be more surprised if there weren't people still doing this. I've never seen the point myself - level whatever in Duolingo is only impressive on Duolingo, why cheat to obtain it? - but there are always those who will.
What I'm most concerned about and discouraged by is the fact that now one has to do SO MUCH MORE WORK just to get a gold circle. Why??!!
I saw in the other comments that someone had created a way to have them gold and earn more crowns. Frankly, because I've been here so long, anything less than a gold circle will feel incomplete.
I appreciate being able to continue down the tree without having to reach gold but as I stated above, now everything will just look unfinished.
Also.. what about those badges on our profiles? The "keep all skills gold" one? How's that supposed to work?
I wish there was! I dont like the Crowns either. It's like I''m having to start over from scratch and I've been at Level 25 and my Italian tree has been gold for over two years. Now I am back at having to waste time doing 50+ lessons of the very basics: a boy, a girl, the woman, the man, etc... to get those levels gold again.
this is your progress page with golden vs non-golden skills for your English-Italian (from English) tree:
This will be my new strategy for my (forward) EN-PT 1,5 years tree:
- 1) Only re-golden those (vocabulary) crown L2 skills (75-100% strength) which I have already been practicing daily.
1a) I will be waiting until the "crown test out" feature is finally added which will probably fix what the simple conversion rule broke to move higher (especially true for the 39-44 skills of the first half of the tree) in a crown level hierachy.
1b) I usually use the general "Practice / Strengthen skills" with "timed practice" button to save my streak and gain XPs.
- 2) Review notes and re-golden multiple crown L1/L2 (grammar) skills (100% strength).
- 3) Level-up grammar skills from crown L2 to crown levels L3-L5 (hopefully to see some more difficult and longer sentences).
- 4) Re-golden levelled-up L3-L5 (grammar) skills (100% strength) in iterations.
My plan is not to do 3) before 2).
It is easier to do points 2) and 3) if you order all skills on your SHOF progress page http://duome.eu/USERNAME/progress by Skill Name.
Use the "Practice" button to do a "Skill strengthen" exercise.
All (16) more difficult grammar / tense skills start with "Verbs:" (also applies to e.g English-Italian tree!).
Point 1) "Crown level test-out" will probably FIX any wrong conversion if SIMPLE rule was used
[Crown conversion BUG] Not a single L3 skill; 39 golden skills wrongly migrated to L2 for 1,5 years old tree (daily practiced): https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26853820
I have linked the above points for a further discussion also here:
"Crowns FAQ": https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/26739837$comment_id=27089671
I could not update / improve my above text yet because of personal situations in my private life and currently it does not look like that I will be able to do so in the next ~4-5 months. Sorry guys.
Hi Thomas.Heiss, I think your comment/advice to Jaybirdcrow will be helpful to almost anyone who sees it.
You say: "Only re-golden those (vocabulary) crown L2 skills (75-100% strength) which I have already been practicing daily."
Does "L2 skills" mean skills or bubbles that currently have 2 crowns?
Does "L2 skills (75%-100%)" mean L2 skills that are rated on your progress page between 75% to 100% strength?
So you don't plan to re-golden your (vocabulary) L2 skills that are currently less than 75% strength? ...... (3.5) Why is that?
"Re-golden" means work on a skill until you have the maximum 5 crowns? (1 crown for the extra topics like flirting).
Is the "crown test out feature" expected to apply separately to each skill or bubble (except the extra topics)? Or might a test apply to a collection of skills, and perhaps no test out for some skills?
You say "I usually use the general "Practice / Strengthen skills" with "timed practice" button to save my streak and gain XPs. ...... So your typical day on Duolingo is to begin by clicking the Practice button, then click on the timer button (which I just now purchased from the Shop). And then keep clicking for more timed testing until you decide you want to do something different like switch your focus to grammar? ...... I was disappointed to discover that the timer applies only to the Practice, not to doing a lesson from my tree. Makes sense, though, in terms of potential complexity of implementation.
You say "2) Review notes and re-golden multiple crown L1/L2 (grammar) skills (100% strength)." ...... This is confusing. I don't think you mean taking an L1 skill up to L5, which is what it would have to be to turn gold on your tree. I think you mean move the skill from L1 to L2 or from L2 to L3? ...... Maybe I'm confused because golden on the tree is different from golden on the progress page? ...... Generally, the idea is to move the grammar L1's up to L2. When there are no more grammar L1's, start moving the grammar L2's up to L3, etc.? ...... (7.5) But you're not doing this so much with the vocabulary bubbles, because you're waiting for the "crown test out feature"?
And one of your points is that you can more easily find all your L1's or L2's (etc.) by going to your Progress page, which is at
Well, that's nice to know! Apparently there is no button on the page with the learning tree that takes you to this progress page. The progress page has been a well-kept secret, which you have now revealed! (I've been doing Duoling for a couple of years.)
I've tried to word my questions so that they're clear and not too onerous to answer. :-) However, I had to resort to using " ...... " to indicate some paragraph breaks, because Duolingo doesn’t handle numbered lists with multi-paragraph items correctly.)
I’ve already been doing some of what you describe, but the full Thomas.Heiss method looks even better. I hope by the time the "crown test out feature" arrives, I’ll have settled into some way of experiencing some sense of fun and progress with a once-golden German tree and the English and Spanish saplings, all hit by Hurricane Crown.
thanks for your long reply and asking so many (good) questions to my suggestions / thought-out strategy.
Reading through your comment and all points it got now very clear to me, that I obviously confused more than instead of bringing some hopeful light into the dark :-)
I will try to update (re-write / extend) my above comment, to make it more clear what I meant to say, even that I am a non-native English speaker.
That may be the main problem for everyone writing (like me) and reading in a L2 language like English, that speaking precisely tremendously helps...but I did not with my first drafted comment.
I really have to do it the next couple of days as I also had posted my comment / suggestion to the "TWO very big Crown FAQ / introduction" threads...therefore I may have confused MANY DL people...but your feedback is greatly appreciated and you have been the first who answered!
I will let you all know when I have updated my above comment.
And of course I will also try to answer your own comment as best as I can for the points my original strategy / suggestion comment may still be missing.
With every code update and "backdoor(s) closed", the site gets unusable more and more :-(
Instead of writing our hearts out, we probably need to start recording videos, showing how exactly to do it and explaining face-to-face by audio how it is 100% meant and how the DuoLingo.com can / should be "worked around" for the moment.
Is anybody using Camilo's "Duolingo Next Lesson" Tampermonkey user script?
Finally I have added a new (longer) comment highlighting some facts about
- to filter skills by strength (there was an Stylus addon user style to filter golden skills in the pre-crown era)
- rename skill names (adding prefixes, e.g on our www.duome.eu/USERNAME/progress page)
- a (crowns) level-up lesson strategy concept to focus on more difficult grammar (e.g Subjunctives) / Verb tense skills
in Camilo's "Duolingo Next Lesson" thread: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/26849592$comment_id=29666271
as well as "[HOWTO]: Different ways for spaced repetition with skill strength viewer (user script and extension)" thread: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/29304553$comment_id=29666130
I would like to invite advanced users and user script or user style programming gods to join and discuss questions and ideas on a brainstorming level.
Hello Thomas. You seem to have a good grasp on the underpinnings of this system and the way things are calculated. I'm wondering if you can help me figure out why on my page...https://www.duome.eu/anita98586 it says I'm am only working on Spanish->EN and Spanish->FR when I have also finished the EN->Spanish tree. Is this an error in the reporting system, or must I do something to change the base language in the report. Thanks, Anita
To suggest that someone like Jaybircrow, who has been at level 25 in one language (Italian) for a while and hasn't chosen to pursue another language or dabble in several, could start another language course to avoid boredom misses the point that Duolingo has erred in how it's reset his tree.
If the abrupt changeover to the crown system had been better designed in how it took into account the data they have on each user, they would not have put Jaybirdcrow and others like him in the situation he describes.
The failure to adequately take into account this user's stats has resulted in bad pedagogy.
The reason to start another language should be an interest in the new language, not to escape Duolingo-induced tedium.
Ideally, Duolingo will eventually figure out how to make better use of the stats they have on users to re-adjust more appropriately people's trees.
Meanwhile, the Thomas.Heiss suggestion (below) to do the reverse tree (in this case, learning English from Italian) is brilliant. I think anyone who is at a 20+ level in learning language X from English will almost surely benefit and enjoy learning English from X. It will expose you to new vocabulary and exercise further your skills in the target language. I recommend also participating in the Discussions on the lesson questions in X from English by reading and writing in X. In that endeavor it's not cheating to use https://translate.google.com occasionally, if needed. :-)
flootzvat, (flootzvat's comment appears below.) We agree that starting a course and starting a tree are the same thing. I don't know why you think I said otherwise. My point was NOT about the denial of synonyms.
My point was that from all the choices one COULD make from the 60-and-growing number of courses available from Duolingo, the only ONE that is OBVIOUSLY appropriate for someone like Jaybirdcrow is the reverse tree of the ONE course he has taken and taken all the way to level 25.
Thus, to merely suggest (with no specificity) that he could take some other course to avoid boredom falls short of the MORE HELPFUL recommendation from Thomas.Heiss and myself that he SPECIFICALLY take English from Italian, the reverse tree of the only course he has pursued. That would be more than avoiding boredom. That would actually advance his Italian, the one language we know he is especially interested in.
(I surmise from his user name and his comment in very-native-looking English that his native language is English. And since he has pursued only Italian, I’m also assuming that it was Italian from English. If, in fact, his native language is X and he took Italian from X, then I would recommend he take X from Italian, if available. The suggestion has always been that he do the reverse of the tree he has done.)
Note: I don't usually indulge in all caps, but I hope in this case, the emphasis may help clarify a distinction I had not imagined would be unclear. :-)
Quote Doctor-John: The failure to adequately take into account this user's stats has resulted in bad pedagogy.
I am not sure that there is sufficient data collected.
The best: Their crown conversion code failed for 39-44 skills when they forced me into it in April!
[Crown conversion BUG] Not a single L3 skill; 39 golden skills wrongly migrated to L2 for 1,5 years old tree (daily practiced): https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26853820
I have heard nothing from support about the simple conversion bug after I submitted my report.
This will be my new strategy for my (forward) EN-PT tree: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26612939$comment_id=27088740
I believe you should start the reverse tree Italian-English (from Italian) to practice writing in your target language.
As I see it in my PT-DE reverse tree, crown levels L0/L1/L2 still have a quite high(er) translation ratio for your target (Italian) language.
I am not sure about crown L3 (have not reached already, no skills have been converted into that).
It probably would be safe to not go further than crown L3 at the moment (and to wait what other learners have experience about crowns L4+L5 and switched target translation ratio which would also apply for reverse trees).
FieryCat Enable/Disable crowns (nice formatting): https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26677923
I tested the new system and it is great! First two levels are pretty the same, but starting with level 3, you barely get any sentence to translate in English, which is awesome. It definitely helps us to learn better and actually I think Duolingo can get you to a B1 level in writing with this rework. Great job Duolingo! Keep up this great work!
PS: I hope I will get it soon on my main accout!
I wish this improvement/feature was in Duolingo's messaging re: the crown system! The rollout needed some expectation setting.
Meanwhile, I've been tracking my progress thru the crowns and hope to comment in a few day (with stats) how/why the new system is a huge step forward.
I wish this improvement/feature was in Duolingo's messaging re: the crown system!
It actually was in the widely shared initial announcement of the skill levels feature a few months ago, and it's probably what led to a good deal of the high expectations for the new system among the kinds of people who read such announcements, but the only official voice I've seen (barring one, albeit important, sentence from Luis) since the large-scale roll-out to existing users began has been in the Portuguese-language forum.
Looking forward to your report!
I've had the new crown system for ~3, maybe 4, days, and that messaging hasn't been part of the roll-out.
Somewhere, some place, in this crazy world of user comments... I had suggested that DL pin a banner at the top of my crown tree, explaining the logic/value of the new system.
piguy3 and D3XT3RY0NuT: After plowing my way thru several skill levels, I'm developing a sense of how the skill levels progress.
Here's my take (with a few warnings):
I'm working from limited data, so my numbers are fuzzy at best. I completed one L1, three L2, one L3, and one L4.
I'm certain that DL can change any of the following percentages on the fly, so this is just a point-in-time snapshot.
L1 felt like a duplicate of L0. Short and sweet. (mind you, I finished my tree a while ago so my memory is hazy).
L2 seems to be ~75% source-to-target language. Mostly the see/type style question, with a smattering of multiple choice and listen/type (combined ~10%??). Slightly more multiple choice than listen/type, maybe 2:1 ratio.
L3 also seems to be ~75% source-to-target language. However many more listen/type questions (maybe ~20%).
L4 was ~50% source-to-target language. Chances are somewhere around the 20% listen/type questions again. I don't remember getting a multiple choice question.
EDIT: Some of the skills have 9 or 10 questions per repetition. Others had 15-20 questions per repetition. (Imperative L2 had 20 questions per repetition, 8 repetitions. I can hardly wait for Imperative L3 and L4...)
My biggest realization is that I'm going to need a system to track my progress. i.e., my own SRS. It is too easy to get focused on one skill/crown level and then blow 200+XP points in a row on one skill. That would mean I'm letting other skills degrade and I want to avoid that.
I'm still having an internal debate re: if I want to progress up the crowns or work on my reverse tree. I find the # of repetitions w/in a crown level to be a bit mind numbing, so by the time I get to L4 (a 50/50 blend of source/target languages), I'm a bit brain numb. I have a few idea re: how to address this, but they need more work.
My short term plan is to get everything L3/0, and then re-evaluate.
If I were the king/queen of all things software, I would have advocated for keeping SRS alive from day one. Obviously, I'm not wearing a crown (grin!!!)
Overall, I still believe that the new system is a step forward.
Nice that they think that. But I need more repetitions than the system thinks I should. Before I could redo the exercises in which I had problems as often as I needed. Today I tryed the next level of my Polish present verbs and ist was a desaster. It's just like in school: if you are to stupid to learn in the speed given, you are the looser. But duolingo is not school. I think everybody should be able to repeat at the level that fits him best as many times as he wants.
I can't reply on pinguy3 so I "reply" myself.
I care not if there are the ne crown levels or the old levels. It's a good feature that the sentences get more difficult with leveling up. But it would be really great if it was possible to stay in a level in one exercise if you dont't feel ready for more. Like the old strengthen buttons at the exercises or the redo buttons.
I agree! I was really excited for this change, but hearing all this makes me weary and I don't know if I want the change, when there's no way to redo lessons individually without increasing difficulty the next time (and it then staying at that rate of difficulty, with no way to reduce it again after some time, either manually or automatically). No timed practice before I reached level 5. And no wordlist for the lessons (which I relied on, so I could make me flashcards with Anki, I don't want to stop during a lesson).
In Polish there are no "Tips and Notes" after the fist checkpoint. you can read the discussions, there are many tips in there but there is no stystimatical grammar lesson. You can use the help when you point your curser on one of the words, but for me to get the system of the grammar I need more easy exercises to imprint the correct form used.
I wasn't asked if I wanted the change. I don't know why, but perhaps it's because I already had the crown version on my portable. So I used both systems. The old system on the computer, the crown system on my portable. It wasn't annoying me, because on the portable I seldom wrote anything, there I used the word bank. But with the word bank you can learn passive vocabulary. You can understand what's written/ said but you can't apply it yourself. At the computer I use the keyboard. Of cause this is more difficult because I have to know myself the words and the grammar.
I don't think the new system is bad. It's different and it's good that there is progression in the difficulty with higher level. But nonetheless I wished there was a possibility to redo special lessons in lower level.
I think the point is to read the tips and notes when you're stuck. it says in several courses now that "these are optional", "you may only use these if you feel stuck"
there was never (to me) a purpose in going back to adj. 2 (1/5) and clicking an individual skill therein to practice. Even then if I went an did each quiz within adj. 2 i would get to 5/5 in more quizzes than necessary.
I gotta test this
I practiced a specific skill with "1crown:0/4" using a patter of; wrong, wrong, wrong, right, wrong, right. Took a while but I still got the skill to "1crown:1/4". I will attempt it again if i come across a "1crown:0/4" but im pretty sure a completed lesson means a piece of a crown for
I have no idea what half of the expressions on Duolingo mean. It's incredibly frustrating. There are no instructions anywhere. What does 'xp' mean? What is a 'lingot'? It's difficult enough learning a language without having to figure out the language of the app. I have paid for Duolingo Plus and I am beginning to regret it. I feel as though I'm learning blind, stumbling along in a completely random way.
These are things, that help to motivate, but that are not really necessary to learn a language :o) If you do your lessons, that will be enough, the rest ist for fun. So you don't really need to figure out what the meaning of these toys is.
XP are experience points. You get them automatically when you practice. The more XPs you have, the higher your speech level. It's like in a computer game ;o)
Lingots are another reward for hard work: they are little red gem stones. It's a kind of currency for duolingo only. You can "buy" things with them in the "shop". For example a "Streak freeze". That allows you to pause one day without losing your streak. The streak says, how many days you practiced in a row. If you practice 30 days and then you pause one day, your streak will begin anew with zero. With "streak freeze" it will continue.
In some courses there are special lessons, which you also can by with lingots. I like the lingots, they look nice.
And each time you complete a new skill or level the skill up you will get a shiny crown.
*In some courses there are special lessons, which you can BUY with lingots.
The optional lessons you can buy are typically on topics like Idioms, Flirting, or Christmas. Of these, Idioms is the topic most applicable to all languages.
I agree with Janet731534, there's a lot of jargon associated with Duo: XP, SRS, leveling up, lingots, etc. Now that the new interface with crowns has replaced the previous interface, I hope Duolingo will at least after-the-fact provide a proper introduction / explanation / set of instructions. Ideally there would be a pointer at the top of a user's page to this document, and the document would explain all the jargon with footnotes.
Duolingo needs to be more sensitive to the range of expectations, experience with software, and adaptability of its users.
I didnt have to use lingots to buy those ie flirting and proverbs ( idiomatic expressions) they were just there for the taking. And those were some of the first lessons I tried after basics and they benefitted me a great deal >'a slightly different slant to what I was learning in basics certainly had the feeling that they marginally more colloquial and which I rather enjoyed doing too though they were quite difficult I really just had to figure them in relation to the equivalent english proverbs so id simply find a key word that I already know and worked it out that way it was a great exercise for me gave a great deal of confidence that I would in fact learn the languagev and every day I would do a quick round of each and very soon I knew them well.
Make the global PRACTICE (re-strengthen) button:
more intelligent: mix content from several skills randomly (I heard there are two new bugs for high L5 skills and 100% strength trees, so it may not be advisable at the moment to reach the highest level!)
and customizable: I want to focus on mixed content from 26+ grammar / verb tense skills!
and allow a user to work from the BOTTOM to the top.
This would be good for:
recently learned skills with 4h + 12h + 1-6day required spaced repetition (SR) review intervals
not so often practiced skills as you do not reach the 2nd half or last 1/3 of your tree with re-strengthen exercises that easily:
Words decay from previous skills all the time from 100% back to 75/50/25% which you have to re-strengthen first, so you actually would need to invest a lot of daily / weekly XPs to make that happen.
If you like my above suggestion, I would be glad if you could also up-vote my feature request in Dr. Luis van Ahn's "What changes would you like to see" thread: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/28202855$comment_id=29981235
I simply would like to do my lessons so I can maintain my streak of 480 days and 560 crowns but my app is not giving the xps earned for today doing level 4 verb infinite though I did 2 lesson for which I obtained 13/ 15 fir both = 26 but it just shows no xps to my tally what can do to get through this hurdle
Technical glitches of this sort seem much more common on the app than the website. I'm sure they'll get the app situation corrected. (You can file a bug report.) In the interim, I'd say just use the website. You can use it from your mobile browser and still, I think, avoid the app glitches.
I have filed literally hundreds (no exaggeration) of bug reports with screenshots and no response whatsoever and the problem goes on however thanks for the advice I will certainly give that a try before I give up on duolingo altogether and I am pretty close to that point .
I have all my skill golden in spanish with a 480 day streak except for 6 which are on level 4 ( viz verb infinitive perfect past busness and politics to name 4 of the six ) and I have 560 crown but today I attempted several of them ( verb infinitive level 4 and achieved my target for they but I just keep getting a start for the day with no xps and I will be inconsolable if I lose my streak can anyone help me with the issue