"Ninguno de los niños necesita camisetas."

Translation:None of the kids needs T-shirts.

March 18, 2018

49 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Colette984040

I think that should be ' None of the children need T-shirts'.

March 18, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizadeux

Both need and needs would be correct here. Here this is listed as one of the "Top Ten Grammar Myths"

http://www.onlinegrammar.com.au/top-10-grammar-myths-none-always-takes-a-singular-verb/

July 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

"need" is obviously fine; however, "needs" isn't wrong.

Searching Google with quotes, here is the entirely of the relevant results:

  • I guess part of the problem is that none of the kids needs me so much anymore.
  • With the short cycling distances involved, none of the kids needs to have a triathlon bike.
  • Some moms sneak in a video during that rare 10 minutes when none of the kids needs anything.
  • A rare moment where none of the kids needs something…

  • We're not sure what the need is out here in Deer Creek in the suburbs but regardless, none of the kids need to feel uncertain.

  • Sure hope none of the kids need a bathroom call, because that means boots and pants back on and a walk across the yard to the building with lights and water.
  • None of the kids need counseling, and Crosland didn't feed the turtle in front of a whole class.

4 vs. 3 for "needs" over "need"; of course the specific counts are but an anecdote; this is a ridiculously small sample. But it's reasonable evidence that "none of [plural group]" can be used with a singular verb in English.

June 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BobBeretta

Looking at an ngram from Google books is interesting (still anecdotal, but with more voluminous data).

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=none+of+them+need%2Cnone+of+them+needs&case_insensitive=on&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3

In 2018, treating "none of them" as a plural noun phrase is still more than twice as common as singular. But historically, plural was the only way. Prior to 1870 there were no occurrences of singular usage, then singular usage started to creep in.

Maybe that explains why some folks (like myself) think "none of the kids needs" is so wrong? Our body of reading just hasn't led us to accept the slow drift of grammar in common usage.

October 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/antonmo

if you use needs, should you not also use “a t-shirt” ?

September 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

No, there's no problem with one child owning several T-shirts.

February 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KenMammel

I've never heard an educated English speaker say needs instead of need.

October 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bruce768614

Sorry.
The subject of the sentence is "Ninguno" or "none". "None" is singular; so, the verb needs to be singular as well. Hence "needs".

This has been the rule forever.
If some online grammarist wants to change that rule because so many people ignore it, that is fine for them. But I will stick with the older rules.

December 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cs1987

That hasn't been the rule "forever" - conversely, "none" has been considered both singular and plural for around a thousand years, when the English language was very different to what it is today. The idea that "none" is only singular is a complete myth. See the links people have posted in this thread for more information on this.

December 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillTrost

You're talking about English. There are no rules, there are only shared conventions. And in this case, either phrasing is somewhat conventional.

April 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anthony947798

Indeed. They are still marking that answer as wrong. Have reported again.

March 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pia.damsgaard

Both versions are accepted 20.01.2019

January 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KyleFenorme

None (and any) are always singular in formal English. Few write and almost almost no one soeaks that way, but it's true.

April 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

There is no basis for that claim. "None" has been used for centuries with both singular and plural verbs. Have a look at the Usage Notes here.

April 1, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeatherGilding

None of the children need t-shirts. In English, this noun is plural so the verb shouldn't have an s.

June 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizadeux

According to my grammar book Practical English Usage, "When we use none of with a plural noun or pronoun, the verb can be singular (a little more formal) or plural (a little more informal).

July 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EGHQNr1A

Yes because the subject of the sentence is "none." People get confused and think that "children" is the subject, so they say "need"

June 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeatherGilding

Both the words none and children are plural in this sentence. None is plural if it means not any like it does in this case.

June 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/piguy3

Both singular and plural are used in published English texts: http://bit.ly/2tx6A66

June 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizadeux

I agree that both are correct and so does my English grammar book!

July 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HeatherGilding

The word should be "need." That is the correct grammar.

June 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DrLawrence

"None" essentially means "not one". "None" is the subject and is singular. "Needs" is correct

June 6, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ralphonz

Why "necesita" rather than "necesitan"? Isn't it [they] the children who need t-shirts, not he/she the children???

December 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

No, the verb agrees with the subject, which is ninguno. Ninguno is singular in Spanish, so you must use necesita.

December 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DLClouse88

Looking at the comments and quotes above tells me that people are divided on "none" being grammatically singular or plural. If you view "none" as a stand in for "no one" or "not one", I can see how that makes sense. But as for me, "none" still sounds plural.

August 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DABurnside

Cut and pasted from https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/none-or-none-are “None” can be singular or plural. Try to decide whether it means “not one”—in which case it’s singular—or “not any”—in which case it’s plural. And If you aren’t sure, “none is” is safer.

November 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KenMammel

I caught that too. (need not needs) I think that's the type of error a (1st language) Spanish speaker would make.

October 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

There is no error made here.

February 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrendaQ3

In English (UK) definitely should be need T shirts

November 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Even the UK hyphenates T-shirts.

February 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rollermama

Interesting that niños is plural but necesita is singular. I assume because none is singlar (?). Can someone elaborate?

March 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

Yes, ninguno is the head noun here, and the head noun determines the conjugation. "Los niños" is a possession of the head noun, which doesn't influence the plurality.

March 26, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VNivGSgf

Niños could also be translated as boys.

April 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillTrost

Verdad. ¿Lo has comunicado?

April 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VNivGSgf

Needs is correct, not need, since none means 'not one'. Thus, it's singular in English

April 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

None can be either singular or plural in English. You can find it being used either way in English literature for hundreds of years.

April 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

The pronoun "none" can be used with both singular and plural verbs. Have a look at the Usage Notes here.

April 17, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linda950913

This translation should be: None of the kids needs a t-shirt. None = not one, so "needs" Singular subject, singulat verb, and singular object. Duolingo often has problems with this type of construction.

April 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

It's discussed above. None can be singular or plural in English.

April 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ArthurTinaglia

I put, "Not any of the children need T-shirts." What is wrong with that? Aren't kids the same a children? Isn't "not any" the same as "none"?

August 12, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DebbieDrum

Needs should not be plural

June 7, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/donna.scha

Looking at the examples given, Need singular suggests a need occurring at a distinct point of time while needs plural suggests something a bit more continuous. Given they are talking about kids who grow fast the sentence is likely to hold true for a short period of time so I would err towards use of need.

July 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

When the need or needs occur, it has nothing to do with time. You are on the wrong track, donna.scha.

August 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/susu581980

The subject is "none" which is singular so it should be "need" although you would never use it without the qualifying phrase.

November 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danielconcasco

See above. None can be singular or plural in English.

November 19, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

If you have a singular 3rd-person subject, the correct conjugation is "needs". He/she/it needs something.

"None" can be singular or plural, depending on your gusto.

February 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BillTrost

Eso me gusta. ;-)

April 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RyagonIV

I wanted to smack your fingers for writing lo first, but it seems like you caught that. Good job. :)

April 19, 2019
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