"Ninguno de los niños necesita camisetas."
Translation:None of the kids needs T-shirts.
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Both need and needs would be correct here. Here this is listed as one of the "Top Ten Grammar Myths"
Indeed. They are still marking that answer as wrong. Have reported again.
"need" is obviously fine; however, "needs" isn't wrong.
Searching Google with quotes, here is the entirely of the relevant results:
- I guess part of the problem is that none of the kids needs me so much anymore.
- With the short cycling distances involved, none of the kids needs to have a triathlon bike.
- Some moms sneak in a video during that rare 10 minutes when none of the kids needs anything.
A rare moment where none of the kids needs something…
We're not sure what the need is out here in Deer Creek in the suburbs but regardless, none of the kids need to feel uncertain.
- Sure hope none of the kids need a bathroom call, because that means boots and pants back on and a walk across the yard to the building with lights and water.
- None of the kids need counseling, and Crosland didn't feed the turtle in front of a whole class.
4 vs. 3 for "needs" over "need"; of course the specific counts are but an anecdote; this is a ridiculously small sample. But it's reasonable evidence that "none of [plural group]" can be used with a singular verb in English.
Quoted from the link below & paraphrased for brevity:
As is nearly always the case, the answer is that both are fine and have been for a long time.
Grammarians — and, stunningly, they are fairly quiet about the issue — pretty much agree on three basic facts:
1) when none quantifies a singular or mass noun, only singular agreement is acceptable (ie: food) 2) when none quantifies a plural noun, both singular and plural agreements are acceptable (ie: t-shirt/s) 3) when none doesn’t quantify anything, both agreements are acceptable.
So actually Duo should be accepting a rather large variety of singular/plural combinations here.
PS: Sorry to be replying to you Ryagon - I just got bored of reading the same argument over and over, so scrolled to the "comfy resting place" and didn't actually realize I'd replied to you until after posting.
Looking at an ngram from Google books is interesting (still anecdotal, but with more voluminous data).
In 2018, treating "none of them" as a plural noun phrase is still more than twice as common as singular. But historically, plural was the only way. Prior to 1870 there were no occurrences of singular usage, then singular usage started to creep in.
Maybe that explains why some folks (like myself) think "none of the kids needs" is so wrong? Our body of reading just hasn't led us to accept the slow drift of grammar in common usage.
The subject of the sentence is "Ninguno" or "none". "None" is singular; so, the verb needs to be singular as well. Hence "needs".
This has been the rule forever.
If some online grammarist wants to change that rule because so many people ignore it, that is fine for them. But I will stick with the older rules.
That hasn't been the rule "forever" - conversely, "none" has been considered both singular and plural for around a thousand years, when the English language was very different to what it is today. The idea that "none" is only singular is a complete myth. See the links people have posted in this thread for more information on this.
Cut and pasted from https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/none-or-none-are “None” can be singular or plural. Try to decide whether it means “not one”—in which case it’s singular—or “not any”—in which case it’s plural. And If you aren’t sure, “none is” is safer.
This is like a person running a red light saying to the cop, But stop lights can be either red or green! Yes, they can--but they are not interchangeable. None can be either singular or plural, but there are times when it is properly one, and times when it is properly the other.
Definitive answer to 'need' or 'needs'! I have Fowler's Modern English Usage in front of me. It says, and I quote...
"It is a mistake to suppose that the pronoun is singular only and must at all costs be followed by singular verbs etc.; the OECD explicitly states that the plural construction is commoner".
I would go so far as to say that no native speaker (unless a grammar pedant) would ever say "None of the kids needs T-shirts". Never. Not ever. Not anywhere. Ever.
Well, I wouldn't say "never," nor would I say "commoner" for "more common," but you are free to do so. Is that book a British source, perhaps? Idiomatic usage can be intriguingly different, certainly.
But back to the topic. I believe that if you were taught "none = not one = no one," you would choose the singular verb.
"Not one person gets by me without a ticket!"
"No one goes into that section of town without risk."
"Out of all of the applicants, none is qualified to do the work, not one!"
"With a family of twelve, I am astonished that NONE needs a t-shirt!"
"But ALL need shoes before school starts!" (plural Subj.)
Yet, usage changes with commonality, so now it's said that the "subject" is seen to be a "phrase" including the plural object of a preposition, like "None of them NEED a t-shirt" to lend credibility to using a plural verb - huh! - I find that to be lazy logic, but ... Whatever!
If both sing. & plural verbs are accepted, so be it!
When "ninguno" is placed before a singular masculine noun, it must change to "ningún".
That is not actually true.
In English grammar, none can be either singular or plural.
It would be nice if it had to be one or the other. But grammarians have said since both are used routinely, both/either one is correct.
It can be either, but it has to be one or the other in each given case. It says to look at the noun after "of" and if it is plural, then none is plural. "Children" is plural, so none is plural in the sentence in question. If the word were "book" then it would be singular. As in "None of the book is in English." Or something like "None of it is funny."
That's not what the article says. It says:
"If the object of the preposition is plural, there is more leeway. Most of the time, but not always, you will want to use a plural verb. Examples: None of the pie was eaten. None of the children were hungry. BUT None (as in, “not a single one”) of the children was hungry is not incorrect."
Assuming the article is correct. As a native English speaker I think I've heard it both ways but certainly using the plural verb with a plural prepositional object is more common.
I agree with everybody who recognizes that the subject is singular (ie: ninguno = not one) in this case. This is confirmed by the conjugation of the verb (necesita) which is 3rd. person singular (s/he needs, not they need). Perhaps this is a quirk of English where it is acceptable to say: Not one of the kids needs (or need) T-shirts, but it appears to me that Spanish is clear about this.
I understand that the rules of English are vague on this, but logic can be helpful here.
None of discrete countable plural nouns is "not one" to my mind.
Not one is singular--a singular verb should be used.
While none when applied to mass nouns or uncountable plural nouns can be "not any".
When none means "not any" then a plural verb could be used.
Looking at the examples given, Need singular suggests a need occurring at a distinct point of time while needs plural suggests something a bit more continuous. Given they are talking about kids who grow fast the sentence is likely to hold true for a short period of time so I would err towards use of need.