Can we toggle between the new Crown levels and the old skill levels?
I'm not really sure if I like crown levels right now- I turned it on but I think I regret it because I have to do all the lessons again (even though it acknowledges that I have already done them).
Also, as far as I can tell, the "extra" levels are just duplicates of the original lessons. At least on hiragana 1 the lessons were all just the same.
Could you please make crown levels toggle-able because I would like to go back to how it was before. Thanks!
EDIT: Also, I don't really like the new activity where you click English words rather than type them yourself. I find it too easy, especially when there are words that having nothing to do with the topic in there as it gives the answer away. Plus, you wouldn't really have the advantage of having a choice of words in front of you in real life.
EDIT #2: As ABEgorov mentioned, if we don't understand the lesson very much, or we just want to remember it better, we cannot repeat the lesson and are forced to continue.
Also there is no button allowing me to strengthen my skills on a certain activity. This is a feature I would use frequently everyday.
The fact that I can't do one specific lesson without having to go through the whole skill is very demotivating, in my opinion.
If I have a doubt in one word, I will have to do the whole skill over until I find it again? I believe that making it more difficult to refer to something you are looking for makes little sense.
Man, this new Crown system sounds like a chore. I like repeating lessons I'm having trouble with and go back to search for words like you...ot looking forward to this.
The idea is that the exercises get harder as you progress through the levels, but this would necessitate that there be some possibility of having harder exercises. I don't think that really applies to Hiragana 1, where the longest "sentence" that appears is probably two syllables.
I have read that the clicking in English can be toggled off, although I have not seen the system myself.
At the bottom of the screen in the computer version of the "tile matching" type exercises, there's a button you can click that says something like "use keyboard" and has a little picture of a keyboard. I've found that when I click it Duolingo remembers that I prefer they keyboard to those clicking exercises for at least the rest of the day, and usually longer.
Note: You can't get rid of all of the tile clicking in Japanese, because they have to have at least some in there to introduce & reinforce the characters for English-speaking learners. I assume this is true of all or most languages that don't use Latin script.
The tile-click matching exercises on the web I think are confined to the three courses built on the new software basis that allows it, Japanese, Chinese, and Korean. It's not there in Russian, Ukrainian, or Greek, for example.
i'm having the opposite; Seeing it on mobile only, and don't see the crown option on Pc
I just went up to level 5 on one of my Spanish skills - Present 1 to test it out. From my perspective, the sentences didn't seem to get any more complex.
There was maybe more answer in Spanish all the way through but since I've been answering mostly all in Spanish on the reverse tree, it didn't seem that difficult.
I don't think the sentences get harder, they just start you off being able to select the words, then gradually move to having to type out the English translation more often, then gradually move to having to type out the target language translation the most.
The upper skill levels can also, at least in principle (and there's been at least one example mentioned in one these threads of its seeming to actually happen) include more of the sentences actually currently in the trees that had proved sufficiently difficult that people frequently missed them and were shown (much) less frequently to users as a result.
Yeah, although when I toggle off clicking the English words, it also toggles off Clicking the Japanese words- and it takes too long changing between the Japanese and English keyboards on my laptop, so It'd be nice if I could enter the English letters manually, but click on the already given Japanese words.
I know it doesn't take too long just clicking the button that switches it every time, but it's a chore that I didn't have to do before.
there is probably a shortcut you can use to switch between languages on the fly. For chromebooks that is CTRL-SPACEBAR...It will switch between the last two language you used. If you use three or more, you need to chose your two languages manually first, then once you have done that you can toggle between the two.
I'll try to reserve judgement on the crowns thing as a whole, although I don't have a great impression so far. Where did you "turn it on"? It just switched on me partway through today; I don't think I intentionally turned anything on.
But along with the gold badges, the strength bars seem to have gone away! Anybody know how you're supposed to tell when various skills come due for "strengthening" based on the SRS algorithms?
So I must learn 15 hiragana characters per day to be able to practice? That's insane... What if I completed 1/5 Hiragana lesson 2 and don't get it? How to repeat the lesson? As I understand, the only way now it's to start practice, but there are a lot of questions not from Hiragana lesson 2 but from Hiragana lesson 1...
Good point- I often repeat lessons to enforce the content into my head. Thanks, I'll add it to the post.
Does anyone know if there's a maximum "crown level" for each skill? Or can you go around the circle indefinitely?
I think the feature is a unique way of keeping people interested but, I'll admit, it messes with my satisfaction of having everything gold at the same time...
On the english->japanese activities, click "Use Keyboards" at the middle of bottom bar to type words instead of choosing them
that only works for the computer version of DuoLingo. With the iPhone, you are stuck with whatever input method the app wants.
I'm not liking this new crown level update, now I can't go back and see what words I learned without actually doing the test and hopefully all words I learnt does appear.
Another question: Does anyone know how the new general "practice" option affects the skills on your tree? Does it actually strengthen anything/improve your skill levels, or does it just randomly generate exercises without providing "improvement" on your tree?
From what I can tell, it gives me XP, but doesn't seem to contribute progress to any of the skills on the tree.
EDIT: After experimenting with it for a bit on my Hebrew tree, I can say that the new general "practice" feature does not increase progress toward skill level, it only grants XP. I find this to be strange and not the optimal situation in terms of motivating users. This is the only real issue I have with the crown system so far. Hopefully this gets rectified in some way.
Yeah, practice makes you review your weakest lessons. Strong lessons are lessons you just finished and got 100% correct. Weak lessons are ones you did yesterday or a few days ago, and the last time you didn't exactly get everything correct. This is an oversimplification of how it works, but it's the basic idea.
SO...if all your skills are gold, you aren't going to see anything change in your tree. If you however see a skill that has reverted back to color and has only 2 or 3 bars of strength on it, then that's the lesson you'll probably be practicing when you next hit practice. When you are complete with that lesson, it will become gold again.
XP isn't how good you are, it more for tracking that you are continuing to study, whether its new stuff or reenforcing older material, you get XP credit for doing it to show you studied "this much" this week.
I believe I am on the new system. I am a newer user of the app, started last week, and I have never seen % Fluent, and have only ever seen what I am guessing everyone is calling the crown system.
Japanese never had the fluency percentage. People seem to be saying that there are no more strength bars with skill levels. It might vary by person or platform.
I use both web platform and the iOS platform. I could use the android platform if I downloaded the android app to my chromebook, but the web portal I happen to like a lot.
really don't like the crown idea, the lessons just repeat itself again and again , I wish there is some shortcut to test our skill levels.... and just let us go
I agree so so so much! Pretty please give us back the old skill system. It annoys me that I can't practice a lesson as much as I need to, and I'm forced to continue. I would like to understand the logic of the language not just doing it out of sheer memory. And I need to practice each lesson more than once to achive this. I would not like to continue until I understand everything as much as possible.
Fully agree! It is really demotivating to see Crown Level instead of Fluency Level, reverting "gold" lessons status to "level 1"... Please return Fluency Level back!
Oh, please no. Most experienced users are rejoicing at the demise of that deceptive number.
It might be great to allow each user to choose... In this discussion the most of users do not like the Crown Level...
Agreed, it seems as if all the progress made learning a language has practically disappeared. What is the point of going through the whole tree just to make skills golden again?
What is the point of going through the whole tree just to make skills golden again?
Well, learning I hope. What was the point before?
And if you don't think this is a thing that would facilitate your learning in accord with the time invested (an outcome that would be far from surprising given the amount of practice it apparently takes to move through the levels), then spend your time on something else. Beware, though, that part of the system is more translation into the target language as you move through the levels, which will presumably take a lot more practice to master than the reverse direction that has been so preponderant up to now.
Learning, of course, is the whole goal, but I don't know how much learning can be gained by typing "I am a man" and "The cats drink milk" over and over. I think it would be best if users were given the option to choose whether they want this new crown level thing, or if they would like to stick with the old way.
agreed, Busuu uses the fluency % and when it started saying I was 35% fluent, but could barely get through some of their lessons (which are terribly incomplete by the way). Navigating their lessons is also REALLY difficult. I like duolingo a whole lot better. If you have an iPhone, I also like Howard Peebles' suite of apps too. That is a recommendation. Each app and system have their benefits and drawbacks and I like doing both systems together to fill each others' gaps.
Just practiced today French Basics-1 - in old version there were 4 lessons in this block, and now - 48 (!!!). The words in all 48 lessons are the same as in former 4 lessons, just type of exercises was different. That might be beneficial for those who wants more practice within one block (e.g. for whom 4 lessons is not enough...). Meanwhile for those who did get motivation and satisfaction from making the blocks "gold" by passing all lessons within the block, the crowns system is extremely disappointing and demotivating. I.e. to get Basics-1 block gold now you need to pass 48 lessons instead of 4... That is incredibly time consuming, and distracts you from learning other (sometimes much more useful) language blocks in the tree... So the best would be to allow users to choose learning mode in settings: crowns level vs fluency level...
I just did french basic 1 I don't want to do another it was so boring I knew everything already I think there needs to be a balance something between the old and new system especially for the most basic of skills like maybe basic 1 goes up to crown level 3 instead or something else I didn't feel happy about getting level 5 just relieved I think level 3 is where it went downhill for me :)
Yes! There should be a way to test out of an early level for people who've been there and been there and been there and...
That's definately something that could be improved...there should be something in the algorithm that recognizes that these basic skills are already being exercised when you are practicing this other higher tier exercises. I don't need to relearn how to pronounce hiragana and katakana when I am reading words (and listening to them). Katakana maybe a little extra practice helps since you use it less often, but not really a requirement. The skill tree algorithm really could use a a write back feature to credit the SRS stack (or equivalent reinforcement function) for practicing something when clearly it's covered higher up.
I don't like it because I can't click on a lesson and see what each lesson has in it I just have to click on the crown and it takes me straight there. and yes the lessons are the same I regret it so much as I like to write down what is in each lesson separately to help me with spelling the words. Now I have to re do all my golds and I won't be able to prepare myself any more or help with my spellings as much.
Pardon my stupidity, but... crown levels? Is that another A/B test kinda thing or did I miss something?
I have it on mobile, and I much prefer the old system of skill strength. Sure, it was a bit inaccurate, but it prompted me to practice and review everyday. Now, I can just binge on a skill until it's level 5 and never touch it again. It's pretty good for getting the words into your head at the start, but what good is that if you forget it later on?
It looks to me like the number of practices required to get it to level 5 would have pretty much guaranteed a skill wasn't going to degild for a very extended period under the old system, either. Trees I'm actively working on stay gold far too long to be of practical value.
This is so true, and people keep saying this, and yet absolutely nothing about the gilding algorithm changes.
Well, they seem to have just gotten rid of it ;) at least for the moment. The original announcement about skill levels said they would incorporate SRS into the system, but I guess they haven't figured out how to do that as yet.
To be fair the number complaining that skills degild too slowly has always been dwarfed by the number complaining that they degild too swiftly. I bet this is actually part of why skill levels have yielded such good results from Duolingo's perspective. Duolingo presumably knew full well that people could learn a lot more if they practiced more (thereby increasing their time on the site or the app, which aids Duo's bottom line), but if they tried to encourage that by having things decay as fast as maybe they "should" have, it would have discouraged users too much. Skill levels get them around this conundrum.
Interesting. I had completely forgotten about skill levels (I guess they rolled them out for Android? I haven't seen anything on the iOS app yet), so now I'm really curious.
Are you sure the original announcement mentioned SRS? I just skimmed through it trying to find that.
I appreciate that the new system makes you reinforce a lot more, I just feel like there needs to be some mechanism for review, or else you could blast through a lesson to level 5 and then never look at it again and forget the words.
Guess it's in a comment from karint as opposed to the main body of the post:
[Spaced repetition] is something we plan to tackle in the next iteration of this since it is one of the biggest things lacking in this first implementation. We hope to have that next iteration designed and rolled out as an A/B test before March, but a lot can change in three months so please don't hold me to that =]
I like the idea, but I see what you're saying. It doesn't make sense for the initial levels of a language.
Why was there no advance notice at all????? In the middle of a question I suddenly lost all the work I had done in every language.
You haven't lost any work you've done. Now your progress is represented differently; that's all. We've known this was coming for months. It's been one of the best-announced changes in years.
I have lost the xp I've done before switching to the crown (luckily just 10 xp). I chose to activate it, then redo the skill again.
Now I'm regret that I switched to crown level......
Not true!!! I had no need to go back and redo early things I know perfectly. The recognition that I knew them cold has been stripped. There's no way to test out of those earlier skills so I can move forward.
"need"? They are pixels on a screen. You don't "need" to do anything; it didn't lock any of your unlocked skills, did it (if it did it sounds like that's a bug, which, obviously would be far from unheard of)? It changed how they're displayed; that's different than making them inaccessible.
The only thing to keep you from moving forward is a disaffection for a new color scheme, but I don't suppose you signed up to Duolingo b/c you were motivated by the thought of turning pixels on your screen different colors.
The mods who have had the system for a while report really not liking it at first but coming to really like it after not too long.
Let me try to be a little clearer. Previous to two days ago, I had a set system of extensively reworking skills I knew I needed to work on, and "time practicing" skills that were demanding more practice (degilding) but which I knew I already solidly had behind me. Basically, timed practice functioned as a skill-level test of retention that let me move on quickly.
In the middle of a question with no notice, I was switched to a system that doesn't let me differentiate in any way between skills I recently completed, skills that are ingrained that I have no need to return to and skills that still need work.
The claim is that the new system "allows" people who want to be familiarized with a language to buzz through the skill sets vertically while it allows more repetition for people who want to actually build some fluency. I was looking forward to that, but - in the middle of a question with no notice whatsoever - I was forced to discover that this isn't true. I look like I have no prior experience with languages I've studied extensively. There's no way to test out of a skill.
You say I don't like the color scheme. I say I don't like that, in the middle of a question with no notice whatsoever, Duo took away my ability to structure lessons for -my- learning instead of generic learning patterns.
I was switched to a system that doesn't let me differentiate in any way between skills I recently completed, skills that are ingrained that I have no need to return to and skills that still need work.
You're saying that timed practice was the modality you previously used to do this?
This doesn't sound too far from my own methods. I will certainly join you in vigorously lamenting the elimination of timed practice (apparently it comes back at level 5, but I would have little interest in trying to reach level 5 without it).
I look like I have no prior experience with languages I've studied extensively.
This seems to be a point about tree appearance again. I think Duolingo will have users' mental reward centers rewired to seek after number level increases over color changes soon enough.
Whether or not this change to the gamification structure will be able to compensate for the demise of skill-specific timed practice for those of us that relied on it is a separate question.
It sounds great for just starting to learn a language. When it hits you in the middle of a tree, it's going to hurt some!
Ya I literally just started crown levels and I'm not sure if I really like them either and ya I'd rather type the answer than click on words to choose from
Just to show there are others, I agree with Dekusta completely. I would also add that there appears to be less exercises when you have to translate from English to another language, which I felt was much more challenging.
I didn't like the crown feature at all. It seems pointless...I've always studied the old and new lessons, so it was all revised over and over, golden. Well, if you want to add a new feature it should match the level I really am. I didin't finish all courses but I'm definetely not in the very basic. Where's my progress then?
Another point. After you repeat a skill 1+1+2+3+5=12 times it becomes golden. After that you CAN'T repeat the skill anymore like before. There will be only practice available. Should I register a different account to be able to do that another 12 times? I don't understand why it's realized this way. It is absolutely possible to realize the crown system without breaking the ability to choose a lesson of a skill.
I wish we could go back to the old system. Having just lost my 258 day streak because I was out of internet range over Easter, I am ready to give up on Duolingo. Instead of my gold trees in French and Italian, the screens now look as if I am a complete beginner, with no acknowledgement of progress.
I feel the same way. I see the need for some to have repetition but to make you repeat the level over and over again is getting boring. If I have to do that for every level on the course, I can see myself getting bored and quickly losing interest. I didnt feel this way before the crown levels but I do now :(