https://www.duolingo.com/hsinhsing

I really don't like the crown idea

it just repeats the same thing forever and ever, you guys can provide a shortcut: give us a choice which can test out skills and just let us go ....

March 23, 2018

45 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Sir.SalaR

me too, I prefer strength bars more. and I want to turn off crown levels and go back to strength bars again. What should we do? :|

March 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/drooboo

It's only really annoying for the learners who had started before it. i have a handful of friends who started in mid-February on the crowns system during an a/b test and have all overwhelmingly loved it and succeeded much further in Spanish or French than I would have expected. my initial thoughts when seeing the crowns was dread because it would force me to go and reassert my fluency in my languages. i have now found it very reinforcing even as an veteran user. This crown system stops people from jumping too far ahead in a tree or cheating and testing every skill in a matter of hours. My only dislike is that the " strengthen" button no longer strengthens all of your skills (or level your crowns rather). I want to petition this but the feature is very juvenile.

I find it easiest to level the skills in tiers. i try to make a cascade or gradient where I bring basics to level 2, then the next row to level 1, go back to basics 1 and bring it to level 3, start my newly opened lesson etc.

Another technique I'm doing for languages I spend less time in is to push as hard and as fast as I can to burn through the tree (it feels like I progress much faster). When I hit the inevitable wall where clitics become very important or all of a sudden Der Wemfall becomes extremely important. I can go back to clitics/dative/whatever my weak skill was and get the crowns in order to pick up where i left off.

still very annoying if you had your whole tree gold just a week ago ;_;

March 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

(it's actually quite a bit faster to learn)

What are you referring to with this?

March 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/drooboo

Sorry, I should have clarified that more. In the languages that I do not cycle through routinely (danish and russian), I find myself spending less time getting back all the gold skills I lost and more time actually learning further until I find my actual weaknesses and address them. I should reword it to something like feels faster

March 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Hermesianax

Interesting point. Of course, returning to a language after a while will mean you have forgotten some stuff, but I think it's more important to keep learning new stuff and review the older words along the way - which happens automatically by using old words to construct new sentences.

March 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Ferdiscen

I really hate this new thing. It totally spoiled the experience for me. I am Italian and have been using Duolingo since August 2013; I never had an impressive streak but I always had a full golden tree in German (from Spanish) and a full golden tree in Spanish from English and was halfway in Russian and Japanese. In particular, with the old system I felt the compulsive urge to keep all my trees “all gold” no matter what and only stopped when they were “all gold” and therefore I practiced every day. This new thing doesn’t work for me because I can’t see and end to it (these things don’t stay gold any more and it is really pissing me off!). This thing is interfering with my daily practice and I would really like to go back to my routine. Please fix it. Ferdi

April 10, 2018

[deactivated user]

    My exact sentiments. I mean, more power to people who benefit from and prefer the crowns system, but I personally have completely gone off Duolingo only because of it. Shame.

    June 26, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/daKanga
    Mod
    • 164

    Thank you hsinhsing for raising this poignant issue. ༠

    You can read more about the crown system here: http://www.duolingo.com/comment/26612939

    The real object is to learn the language, not gain the crowns. The crowns are there only as motivators.

    You are in the driving seat to choose your own pace for your own learning.

    A couple of other good sources of info about the new crowns system:

    Gosh, I hope you continue to find ways to improve your engagement with language learning, and perhaps also share this passion and support that you have received, and also resides as a wealth inside you, with others.

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/BeCreative__

    Very helpful. I have been wondering when this would come out after hearing about it several months ago. Its an A/B test atm, correct? I don't have it, and am wondering when the possibility that I will have this system showing up

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/hsinhsing

    The point I am trying to make is: I have been using the app for a very long time, some of the skills I already got, I JUST DON'T WANT TO REPEAT SOME BASICS FOREVER....

    March 25, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Don550357

    I’m getting very demotivated. Had a full golden French Tree and was working in Italian. With the crowns, to progress I have to do additional more difficult exercises. No problem except having been on a 500+ Day streak I could practice old skills and keep them gold even with a few mistakes. This helped me keep my health up when I made a few mistakes in Italian and lost health. Now it appears you can’t strengthen old skills to build health. I’ve just run out of health for the first time practicing skills that were previously Gold. This will significantly slow down my progress because I have to be more careful of mistakes and lead me to just do the minimum each day to keep my streak going. And if you know much about language learning it is a persons willingness to make mistakes or not which helps or impedes their progress.

    March 24, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Max.Em

    In another discussion, Luis, the founder of Duo said they are currently working on a function to test out a skill even with the crown system. But I have no idea if you can do it multiple times then for the same skill....

    In general you can just ignore them. Use the strenghtening like before, you can even still access the normal per skill strengthening when you delete the lesson number from the url line and replace it with "practice" ;-).

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

    you can even still access the normal per skill strengthening when you delete the lesson number from the url line and replace it with "practice" ;-)

    What is the advantage of this? Isn't the crown system entirely centered around per-skill strengthening? Does this method still get you credit toward crowns?

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Max.Em

    It doesn't give you new crowns, but if I don't care about them and I just like to practice against the clock, that's my solution for the moment. It's far from ideal, of course....

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Rey_the_linguist

    Max.Em, could you leave a link to the other discussion you mentioned? It sounds interesting.

    March 26, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Rey_the_linguist

    Perfect! Thank you!

    April 1, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Tomke8

    I agree. This crown system is demotivating at least for me...

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/CoriGreen

    I agree! Get rid of these stinkin' crowns, was so much better before!

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Minificus

    Same for me. It is inconvenient to see which subjects are weak and need practice. There are no instructions (though the previous system was transparent and easy to understand), and I don't understand it. I want to switch back, too :( Why , why, why did you break a perfect system?

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

    old system: choose a skill to practice and practice it, or use the overall button and practice whatever it chose

    new system: choose a skill to practice and practice it, or use the overall button and practice whatever it chooses

    Only the new system opens up the possibility of much more translation into your target language, which has been majorly lacking heretofore (i.e. the system fell far, far short of perfect; the word strength algorithm that was driving all those color changes was also legendarily buggy).

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/TheFinkie

    Buggy it may have been, even inaccurate, but the "weak words" thing was really helpful in helping me focus on what I needed to work on. Every day I would do two new lessons, then find the weakest skill and practise that one as well. Now, I just have hundreds of skills labelled "1". I have no idea what I need to work on, and I cannot keep track of the areas that I haven't practised for some time. Your description of "choose a skill to practice and practice it" is missing the point of the weakness system HELPING you choose the skill that you most needed to practice. (Note that I have no idea of the difference between practise and practice lol, sorry about that :D)

    March 24, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

    I was primarily countering the notion that the old system was somehow easier to understand. Sure, I agree that what it was presumably encouraging you to do was clear enough, and many followed along. From my own experience on the site, however, it didn't seem like that recommended system was actually a good fit, at least in some of the languages I have focused on (Russian among them). Hence, I think that people who simply followed its implicit recommendations in many cases probably weren't doing themselves many favors vs. other potential study sequences.

    The testing results of skill levels sound like they could well point to people having more success - and enjoying the process more - when they chart the course themselves, under the more subtle guidance of the skill level system. (We'll see what happens when they integrate SRS with it, as they announced they were working on.)

    "Practice" vs. "practise" is easy for me. In the U.S. we just don't use the later :) so don't let my usage throw you off. I think the distinction between them, for those whose written standards call for them both, is that the former is the noun and the later is the verb.

    March 24, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/migliamurria

    Totally agree!!!

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

    If it's repetitive, switch up the skills. I take it you didn't do long stretches of practice of one skill before? If so, then you don't need to do it now, all the more so on the easiest skills. At the very least switch to one you're a ways from mastering.

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Hermesianax

    Exactly, I don't really get what all the fuss is about. "How do I know which skills I need to train?" Well, just start at the bottom, that's obviously the more challenging stuff. When you feel frustrated with the difficulty, just switch back to the older and easier skills higher up the tree to relax for a bit.

    March 24, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Chartreux

    I would prefer that Duolingo work on expanding the word inventory and tense structure. There are several tenses that are not present in French but are required for everyday reading/writing and oral comprehension.

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/westbyjj

    I hate it!!! It is too boring and repetitive

    March 29, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Rey_the_linguist

    So far, I like the crowns. However, it does make me a little disappointed that my previously completely golden Spanish tree is filled with color again. In the long run, I believe it will help more than hinder and it makes more sense than the strength bar method where, if you finished every level, you didn't have a clear continuation point.

    March 24, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/tessa904278

    I updated today. Big mistake. Can we go back?

    March 24, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Silke886568

    I've never had the older version on my app but when I learned on the computer, I found it annoying that the gold bars would dissappear after a while.. In this version if you reach level 5 it stays gold and you practised a lot.

    March 24, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/silviavezzo

    I agree, I don't like this !! :((

    March 24, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Don550357

    Plus there seems to be no way to gain health except to go to bed or watch an advert. Plus plus it is demeaning after having a full golden tree in French to have to have 12 lessons of “oui” and “non” and “ca va” to reach level 3 on the first Basic section. Surely this isn’t what the designers intended!!!!!

    March 25, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/ofred19

    I mean, is your goal to have a digital trophy nobody can see but you, or is your goal to learn the language? Nobody's forcing you to do 12 lessons of "oui", "non" and "ça va". If you find it too boring or too repetitive, move on to a different lesson that is more challenging.

    March 26, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/MusicMan97

    I still have strength bars......

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/arcisas

    Good for you. Don't click on 'update' button or something similar.

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/drooboo

    it will happen

    March 23, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Francesco817465

    Sorry, I don't see the point of the new crowns system. Someone should have told DL, it's not broken don't try and fix it. I've bought 2 streak freezes since it started because I couldn't be bothered to do the daily quota under to new system. I'd never done that before and in fact broke a long run when I had to miss a day a while back. I realise people have different motivations for doing things but this one not for me any longer.

    April 17, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

    What was broken under the old system: inadequate translation into the target language. People rightly complained about it a lot.

    April 18, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Francesco817465

    Agreed, so why not concentrate on fixing that sort of situation.

    April 21, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

    They tried many times, but every effort decreased engagement. Crowns upped it substantially, so crowns are what we have. Implicitly, crowns upped engagement so substantially (and so enduringly), it was deemed worthwhile to roll it out even lacking expected features.

    April 21, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/Francesco817465

    I guess it goes back to what I said. every one is motivated in a different way. This new system is not for me I'm afraid. I'll probably keep my account for occasional use but as a day to day learning tool I think it's had it's day.

    April 21, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/ellen_ofarrell

    I do get the point about inadequate translation into the target language but reverse trees were a reasonable workaround. And having played taking a few skills to level 5 just to see how it goes there is still completely inadequate amounts of translation into the target language.

    April 27, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/BeCreative__

    That is the thing I have noticed that seems to be what I feel like as b etter than crowns as I use them more.

    April 27, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

    Reverse trees are a reasonable workaround in some instances, but by my rough count 30 of the 78 courses on Duolingo have no reverse course, and for many of those that do the reverse course is by no means comparable in scope. For instance, Dutch from English has about 120 skills; English from Dutch 55.

    Also, many people simply aren't going to come up with / come across the idea of doing a reverse tree. That's just reality, and opportunities for better learning should not be denied to them.

    Why there seems to be a reasonably-sized contingent of users who aren't seeing shifts in difficulty when progressing through the crown levels, that I'm not sure of. Duolingo tests everything; there are presumably ongoing tests about the ratio. Previously I got about 15% free translation into the target language in many practices. An increase to 25% when working with skill levels would be approaching a doubling, so a great step forward, but I would concur with anyone who said it was still inadequate.

    April 27, 2018
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