"¿Tú y él?"

Translation:You and he?

March 23, 2018

110 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlesJOL3

why not "you and he?"

March 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

"You and he" is correct. Reported July 7, 2018.

"Will you and he go to the dance together?"

Definitely NOT: "Will you and him go to the dance?"

DL VERY wrong.

July 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/martha349768

I don't agree in this instance that you cannot tell whether to translate "¿Tú y él?" as "You and he?" or "You and him?" without context.

@WanderingAbout and @rowith: You each gave good English examples of contexts where this kind of phrase might be a subject (nominative case) or might be an object (accusative case).

In the Spanish phrase given by Duolingo, "tú" and "él" must both be the same case (both subject, or both object). "Tú" is a nominative-case pronoun only (a subject, or part of a subject) -- it can never be an object, or part of an object. So "Él" must likewise be nominative (subject).

Therefore, "¿Tú y él?" would have to mean "You and he", not "You and him", strictly speaking (although people may colloquially say "You and him" regardless, even though it is incorrect).

I'm not positive what the correct Spanish translation of "You and him?" would be ... I think "¿A ti y a él?" For example, "Can the teacher help you and him?" "Los puede el maestro ayudar a ti y a él?"

I'm a native English speaker. Any native Spanish speakers, feel free to weigh in!

June 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanielBugel

I see people here arguing whether "you and him" is proper English, but that's beside the point.

'You and him" is good English in some contexts, but it is never a good translation of "tú y él".

July 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EmmaMitche89062

Thanks for clarifying this question so concisely. This thread is getting tedious to say the least.

July 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lrtward

Cleaned up :) What a wreck it was!

July 31, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uhleeshuh

Thank you! We all learning a new language and that entails different ways of speaking and thinking not just words! I take weird english translations as the best example given to mean what it acrually means, as should everyine learninf a whole new language.

November 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mike209223

An example of where “you and him” would be good English, please.

September 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Xanderificus

"I will give this to you and him." (because you would say "I will give this to him" so adding the "you and.." is fine).

September 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nancy987656

You and him is correct if those two people are the object of a sentence instead of the subject.

November 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RitaHorsey

Never!

January 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/greekpearl

Tú y él son hermanos. Tú y él son primos. Tú y él están juntos. Tú y él están aquí. ¡etcétera!

June 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nick_Pr

FINALLY! I just got an email from Duolingo saying that "you and he" is now accepted.

August 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/japalekhin

As usual, the male voice-over does not say the space between words and it sounds like "túyel?" or more like a really fast "tú-el".

December 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AVAX3M

"túyel" is actually how it would sound in common usage so the imperfection/unnaturalness of the text-to-speech engine is not really to blame this time. It just sounds unnatural because we're not used to the sound of the language yet (unless a native speaker would beg to differ). It happens to everyone learning to speak/understand a new language.

December 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anniescott3

You and he would be correct, especially if it were the subject of the sentence.

September 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ami602039

Sounds like she is saying 'tú y (in)' ?

December 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AVAX3M

Sounds like she is saying "¿Tú y él?" to me.

December 18, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TwilaDicke

In English the pronoun you can be nominative or objective depending on the context--e.g. you & he are going 2 the party (you is a subject pronoun in the nominative case here I am going with you and him--both pronouns are object since they are the object of the preposition with

June 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/skepticalways

Yes, while what you say is correct use in English, I think someone WAY up the discussion showed why en español, when "you" is in the objective case, it is a different word -- ti. (Such as when you would be using it following a preposition or as a direct object.)

So, since in THIS partial sentence is capitalized and begins the sentence, we should surmise that it is answering a question such as, "Who will go to the store for beer?" Someone decides the question and points at you, saying, "You and he (will go), because his car is blocking the driveway, and it's your turn to buy!"

I credit Martha349768 by quoting what she said in the post far above: "In the Spanish phrase given by Duolingo, "tú" and "él" must both be the same case (both subject, or both object). "Tú" is a nominative-case pronoun only (a subject, or part of a subject) -- it can never be an object, or part of an object. So "Él" must likewise be nominative (subject).

Therefore, "¿Tú y él?" would have to mean "You and he", not "You and him", strictly speaking (although people may colloquially say "You and him" regardless, even though it is incorrect).

I'm not positive what the correct Spanish translation of "You and him?" would be ... I think "¿A ti y a él?" For example, "Can the teacher help you and him?" "Los puede el maestro ayudar a ti y a él?"

I believe what Martha said is correct in Spanish grammar, unless some Spanish teacher joins in the discussion at this point with a reason why what she said is wrong.

July 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tessbee

¡Hola, Skeptical! Just a reminder: "te" is the direct/indirect object for "tú" ("ti" is just for prepositions). ;)

August 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nadya222

I'll give it my best shot, here:

"Puede el maestro ayudarles a ti y a él? "

NOTE: I have noted a variation, depending on which Spanish-speaking region we're dealing with:

...some say "ayudarlos"

...others say "ayudarles"

January 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sumanyu5

Don't we have seperate words for "he" and "him" in Spanish

August 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nick_Pr

Sometimes. él is "he", or it is "him" after a preposition. As an object, "him" is "lo."

August 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

This is precisely why the splitting the subject up trick doesn't work. English has disjunctive pronouns just like it's sister language French. I stand with my French cousins.....Je suis moi!

January 9, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJP22

"You and he" is correct I believe. It's correct English, and '"el" means either "him" or "he", as the app confirms.

June 26, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bonbayel

él never means him in Spanish and tú is never an object. Please read through previous comments.

July 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

After a preposition, (as the OBJECT of a preposition) Spanish sometimes uses "él." In English, we say "him" when it is the object of a preposition.

Incidentally, on a related topic, there are also other translations of "él" as a prepositional pronoun; Or we might say "it" .(These are called "prepositional pronouns). Or even, "él." is used as a possessive pronoun.

"Me siento entre él y ella." (I sit between him and her.)

Or this: "El desierto es peligroso pero tengo que pasar por él." (The desert is dangerous but I need to pass through it.)

"El carro grande es de él." (The big car is his. )

See these references. http://www.drlemon.com/Grammar/chart.html http://users.ipfw.edu/jehle/courses/pronoun1.htm http://studyspanish.com/grammar/lessons/oppro http://www.spanish411.net/Spanish-Prepositional-Pronouns.asp

July 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nadya222

These days, I have seen where the "neuter" form (viz., the "it" form) is now "ello ".

The sentence about going through the desert would thus be seen as ... " por ello ".

(I don't believe this word form is universally applied, yet; but, I have seen more and more of it, in print, in recent years.)

September 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

You are correct. (I was trying to avoid extra information.)

September 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/David593594

Not according to the Spanish dictionary. Él = He Él = Him él = it

él

PRONOUN

1. (personal) 

a. he (subject) 

Él ha sido mi mejor amigo por 15 años.He has been my best friend for 15 years.

b. him (object) 

Dale el libro a él.Give the book to him.

c. it (things or animals) 

Ese insecto parece inocente pero todavía tengo miedo de él. That bug seems harmless but I still am afraid of it.

August 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nadya222

I, myself, would say the sentence about the insect like this:

"Ese insecto parece inocuo, pero todavía le tengo miedo a él."

NOTE: In a different duolingo forum on expressing fear "of" something, the construct is this way: I posted a link in that other response of mine.

HINT: One has to think of it as a fear "towards" something, when deciding on the correct wording in Spanish.


P.S.: "inocuo" means 'harmless' (innocuous)

January 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gianniangel1

That is not correct. In a Spanish phrase such as "a e'l" or "con e'l" or any objective prepositional phrase, 'e'l' will mean "him" - to him, for him, about him, with him, etc, just as in English.

August 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdabell

But, there are no prepositions in the given phrase, therefore translation as subject pronouns is the only correct result.

August 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gianniangel1

Exactly. I was merely highlighting how "e'l" could mean "him" in English.

August 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnneBingha4

Shouldn't it be "you and he?"

November 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brigid

Yes.

Please read the Discussion--near the top are excellent replies to your question. Further reading will provide additional nuance & interesting sidebars.

December 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Margothdel9

Hi

December 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GregoryWes5

It sounds like someone cheated on someone. Lol. YOU AND HIM!!!!!!

December 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FlorenceDA344253

You and him is poor English

June 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JeanRafens

It's perfectly good English. "I took a picture of him." "I took a picture of you and him." You wouldn't say "I took a picture of you and he," would you? You use the objective case (him) with the preposition "of."

June 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WanderingAbout

It is OK English but not a good translation here. I was holding out for it above, but as was pointed out above, tú is nominative, so in this case el has to be nominative also. You and he, must be.

June 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nadya222

BUT, as was said above, "" "" is in the 'nominative case' (which, in my background, indicates that it is part of the subject not the predicate).

And, "him" is in the objective case (which, in my background, says it is an "indirect object".

To see BOTH of the Spanish words in the objective case, the " " becomes "a ti ".

EXAMPLE:

"María les dio regalos a ti y a él."
(María gave gifts to you and [to] him.)


CAVEAT: Where I come from (in my day), we always had a different word order, too, as follows:

"He and you got together last night."
(Not ""You and he""...)

And...

"He and I will be there, tomorrow."

(We never wrote, "I and he will be there, tomorrow.")

MORE THAN ANYTHING, it was a matter of courtesy.
(The word order, as per above, was a matter of courtesy, in the way we expressed ourselves: but, it was also taught that way in the textbooks.)

September 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gianniangel1

When used as object pronouns, 'you and him' is correct. In your example, 'you and him' are objects of the preposition 'of'. However, in the Spanish sentence, 'tu' y el' are subject pronouns. They must be translated into English as 'you and he'.

July 31, 2018
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