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"¿Tú y él?"

Translation:You and him?

6 months ago

105 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/CharlesJOL3

why not "you and he?"

6 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sguthrie1

"You and he" is correct. Reported July 7, 2018.

"Will you and he go to the dance together?"

Definitely NOT: "Will you and him go to the dance?"

DL VERY wrong.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/martha349768
martha349768
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I don't agree in this instance that you cannot tell whether to translate "¿Tú y él?" as "You and he?" or "You and him?" without context.

@WanderingAbout and @rowith: You each gave good English examples of contexts where this kind of phrase might be a subject (nominative case) or might be an object (accusative case).

In the Spanish phrase given by Duolingo, "tú" and "él" must both be the same case (both subject, or both object). "Tú" is a nominative-case pronoun only (a subject, or part of a subject) -- it can never be an object, or part of an object. So "Él" must likewise be nominative (subject).

Therefore, "¿Tú y él?" would have to mean "You and he", not "You and him", strictly speaking (although people may colloquially say "You and him" regardless, even though it is incorrect).

I'm not positive what the correct Spanish translation of "You and him?" would be ... I think "¿A ti y a él?" For example, "Can the teacher help you and him?" "Los puede el maestro ayudar a ti y a él?"

I'm a native English speaker. Any native Spanish speakers, feel free to weigh in!

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DanielBugel
DanielBugel
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I see people here arguing whether "you and him" is proper English, but that's beside the point.

'You and him" is good English in some contexts, but it is never a good translation of "tú y él".

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EmmaMitche89062

Thanks for clarifying this question so concisely. This thread is getting tedious to say the least.

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lrtward
Lrtward
Mod
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Cleaned up :) What a wreck it was!

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/EmmaMitche89062

Wow thanks. Duo Mods are the best!

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tessbee
tessbee
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Thanks for letting us know!

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mike209223

An example of where “you and him” would be good English, please.

2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Xanderificus
Xanderificus
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"I will give this to you and him." (because you would say "I will give this to him" so adding the "you and.." is fine).

2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/greekpearl
greekpearl
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Tú y él son hermanos. Tú y él son primos. Tú y él están juntos. Tú y él están aquí. ¡etcétera!

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nick_Pr
Nick_Pr
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FINALLY! I just got an email from Duolingo saying that "you and he" is now accepted.

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Coolspygirl

I figured there would be a lot of people arguing over the direct translation of this phrase.

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nadya222
Nadya222
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Let's just say "discussion is a good thing".

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ctn21458

Although I got the answer right, it still sound like "tuyell" to me and I have listened 5 or 6 times knowing the correct answer.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Anniescott3

You and he would be correct, especially if it were the subject of the sentence.

3 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/FlorenceDA344253

You and him is poor English

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JeanRafens
JeanRafens
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It's perfectly good English. "I took a picture of him." "I took a picture of you and him." You wouldn't say "I took a picture of you and he," would you? You use the objective case (him) with the preposition "of."

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/WanderingAbout
WanderingAbout
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It is OK English but not a good translation here. I was holding out for it above, but as was pointed out above, tú is nominative, so in this case el has to be nominative also. You and he, must be.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nadya222
Nadya222
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BUT, as was said above, "" "" is in the 'nominative case' (which, in my background, indicates that it is part of the subject not the predicate).

And, "him" is in the objective case (which, in my background, says it is an "indirect object".

To see BOTH of the Spanish words in the objective case, the " " becomes "a ti ".

EXAMPLE:

"María les dio regalos a ti y a él."
(María gave gifts to you and [to] him.)


CAVEAT: Where I come from (in my day), we always had a different word order, too, as follows:

"He and you got together last night."
(Not ""You and he""...)

And...

"He and I will be there, tomorrow."

(We never wrote, "I and he will be there, tomorrow.")

MORE THAN ANYTHING, it was a matter of courtesy.
(The word order, as per above, was a matter of courtesy, in the way we expressed ourselves: but, it was also taught that way in the textbooks.)

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mike209223

Maybe you need to take a break.

2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Gianniangel1

When used as object pronouns, 'you and him' is correct. In your example, 'you and him' are objects of the preposition 'of'. However, in the Spanish sentence, 'tu' y el' are subject pronouns. They must be translated into English as 'you and he'.

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TwilaDicke

In English the pronoun you can be nominative or objective depending on the context--e.g. you & he are going 2 the party (you is a subject pronoun in the nominative case here I am going with you and him--both pronouns are object since they are the object of the preposition with

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/skepticalways

Yes, while what you say is correct use in English, I think someone WAY up the discussion showed why en español, when "you" is in the objective case, it is a different word -- ti. (Such as when you would be using it following a preposition or as a direct object.)

So, since in THIS partial sentence is capitalized and begins the sentence, we should surmise that it is answering a question such as, "Who will go to the store for beer?" Someone decides the question and points at you, saying, "You and he (will go), because his car is blocking the driveway, and it's your turn to buy!"

I credit Martha349768 by quoting what she said in the post far above: "In the Spanish phrase given by Duolingo, "tú" and "él" must both be the same case (both subject, or both object). "Tú" is a nominative-case pronoun only (a subject, or part of a subject) -- it can never be an object, or part of an object. So "Él" must likewise be nominative (subject).

Therefore, "¿Tú y él?" would have to mean "You and he", not "You and him", strictly speaking (although people may colloquially say "You and him" regardless, even though it is incorrect).

I'm not positive what the correct Spanish translation of "You and him?" would be ... I think "¿A ti y a él?" For example, "Can the teacher help you and him?" "Los puede el maestro ayudar a ti y a él?"

I believe what Martha said is correct in Spanish grammar, unless some Spanish teacher joins in the discussion at this point with a reason why what she said is wrong.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tessbee
tessbee
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¡Hola, Skeptical! Just a reminder: "te" is the direct/indirect object for "tú" ("ti" is just for prepositions). ;)

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CJP22
CJP22
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"You and he" is correct I believe. It's correct English, and '"el" means either "him" or "he", as the app confirms.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/bonbayel
bonbayelPlus
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él never means him in Spanish and tú is never an object. Please read through previous comments.

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sguthrie1

After a preposition, (as the OBJECT of a preposition) Spanish sometimes uses "él." In English, we say "him" when it is the object of a preposition.

Incidentally, on a related topic, there are also other translations of "él" as a prepositional pronoun; Or we might say "it" .(These are called "prepositional pronouns). Or even, "él." is used as a possessive pronoun.

"Me siento entre él y ella." (I sit between him and her.)

Or this: "El desierto es peligroso pero tengo que pasar por él." (The desert is dangerous but I need to pass through it.)

"El carro grande es de él." (The big car is his. )

See these references. http://www.drlemon.com/Grammar/chart.html http://users.ipfw.edu/jehle/courses/pronoun1.htm http://studyspanish.com/grammar/lessons/oppro http://www.spanish411.net/Spanish-Prepositional-Pronouns.asp

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nadya222
Nadya222
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These days, I have seen where the "neuter" form (viz., the "it" form) is now "ello ".

The sentence about going through the desert would thus be seen as ... " por ello ".

(I don't believe this word form is universally applied, yet; but, I have seen more and more of it, in print, in recent years.)

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sguthrie1

You are correct. (I was trying to avoid extra information.)

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/David593594

Not according to the Spanish dictionary. Él = He Él = Him él = it

él

PRONOUN

1. (personal) 

a. he (subject) 

Él ha sido mi mejor amigo por 15 años.He has been my best friend for 15 years.

b. him (object) 

Dale el libro a él.Give the book to him.

c. it (things or animals) 

Ese insecto parece inocente pero todavía tengo miedo de él. That bug seems harmless but I still am afraid of it.

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Gianniangel1

That is not correct. In a Spanish phrase such as "a e'l" or "con e'l" or any objective prepositional phrase, 'e'l' will mean "him" - to him, for him, about him, with him, etc, just as in English.

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jdabell
jdabell
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But, there are no prepositions in the given phrase, therefore translation as subject pronouns is the only correct result.

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Gianniangel1

Exactly. I was merely highlighting how "e'l" could mean "him" in English.

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Sumanyu5

Don't we have seperate words for "he" and "him" in Spanish

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nick_Pr
Nick_Pr
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Sometimes. él is "he", or it is "him" after a preposition. As an object, "him" is "lo."

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/framboise26

Definitely "you and he"

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nadya222
Nadya222
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Where I come from (in that time warp of long ago), we learned 'never' to put ourselves first, in writing such a (beginning to a) sentence. In other words, it was never I and he.

It was always "he and I ".

(The same applied to using "you", in the place of "I ".)

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DavidMoore622957

Really? I've never heard anyone suggest it is better to put "you" after "he" and say "he and you" rather than "you and he." They both seem acceptable to me, but I doubt I'd ever demote the "you" when speaking directly to someone. It feels much more natural to me to address the person(s) to whom you are speaking first and then add any additional people afterwards.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Gianniangel1

In English, we were taught that it is considered proper and mannerly, when speaking about yourself and someone else, to put yourself second and the other in first place.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DavidMoore622957

Sure, but that convention doesn't apply to "you and him" or "you and he," which is what Nadya suggested.

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mike209223

You and him? That’s just bad English.

2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Mike209223

Well I typed “you and he” but it was marked incorrect BUT it was a “type what you hear” exercise and I wasn’t even expected to translate it.

2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Anniescott3

Either should be correct, as you don't know what the statement is to which this question refers.

3 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ryan520031

You mean him and me

2 weeks ago

https://www.duolingo.com/evaestrellita71

That is improper English. These are subject nouns and There for First person

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sguthrie1

I don't understand. Please explain.

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kate982484

you and he is also correct! it's just more formal

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LeeBrownst1
LeeBrownst1
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It's not a matter of formality. It is whether you and he are the subjects or objects of the verb (or a preposition).

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/martha349768
martha349768
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"Tú" cannot be an object of a verb or a preposition. It can only be a subject.

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/WanderingAbout
WanderingAbout
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You and he is the ONLY correct answer - see above discussion, especially Martha

4 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/David593594

You and him are my best friends. Are you and him going to the dance?

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CubaReady

Absolutely incorrect. It may roll off the tongue easily, but it is grammatically incorrect. You is a subject pronoun and it goes with he, she, it, you, they, we and I. You can remember the rule by saying each word alone. You would not say, "Him is my best friend."

2 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/David593594

Boss says to his employees. " I need you and him to work late." or " I need you and he to work late."

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sguthrie1

WanderingAbout:

NO.

'El' can be an object pronoun, or a subject pronoun.

"I need you and him to work..." is correct.
"I need him to work...." is correct.
"I need he to work..." is NOT correct.

See these: https://data.grammarbook.com/blog/pronouns/tis-i-or-tis-me/ http://users.ipfw.edu/jehle/courses/pronouns.htm

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DavidMoore622957

I think the point is that is a subject pronoun and therefore tú y él must refer to subject pronouns (i.e., "you and he"). The translation can't be "you and him," even if it's easy to construct other sentences with the phrase "you and him."

1 month ago