"Sometimes, fish fall from the sky here!"
Translation:Hier fallen manchmal Fische vom Himmel!
From what I can tell, we want the noun first and verb second. The noun is "here," because that is the what the sentence is all about. "Fish" are actually a direct(?) object, so they go later. Time is always preceeding the direct object, which it does here as well. What is left is what the direct object is doing, falling from the sky. I hope this helps answer some questions, and I would be glad to learn from any mistakes I have made if this reasoning isn't completely accurate!
“Hier” is an adverb, it's in first position simply for emphasis. “Fische” is the subject (“fallen” is intransitive, it doesn't take objects). In German, however, there are different criteria determining word order. One depends on the role of the phrase (subject, object, adverbial and so on), but that doesn't explain why “manchmal” here comes before the subject. A possible explanation for that is that “sometimes” is a kind of pronoun-adverb (by no means an official designation), and thus sticks closer to the beginning. Another possibility is that “manchmal” is there because it, too, is being emphasised. A native would probably tell you that this is the order because it sounds right, and in this case this might actually be the best explanation.
An interesting question would be whether “Fische” could in fact come before “manchmal” as expected based on the rules.
It's curious that you'd consider ‘manchmal’ and ‘vom Himmel’ as manner, when I think they are rather better represented as time and place, respectively.
Regardless, I do think your proposed translation is acceptable, but keep in mind that TeKaMoLo isn't very strict and in particular it can be overridden by many other considerations (among which the placement of emphasis and certain short elements that, while technically being adverbs of one kind or another, behave like particles and tend to stick to particular places in the sentence irrespective of semantics). In this case, I also think ‘Fische fallen hier manchmal vom Himmel’ would sound better, but my German is not perfect.
I tried like 8-10 variations here, none of which were accepted, which makes me think this is an exercise forgotten by the Duo team.
Duo requires a word order that is not required by German grammar - just allowed by it.
Duo team needs to admit there are perfectly legitimate alternative word orders they ought to accept as answers - or explain why here only one specific word order is somehow acceptable (which is not the case usually in German).
I put "manchmal fallen fische vom himmel hier" and that was wrong as well. If Duo is going to throw sentences like this at us then the English version should more closely represent the intended output. They clearly emphasized "sometimes" yet do not allow "manchmal" to come first. This makes learning a new language unnecessarily difficult. Since English really has very few rules about word order (cue angry replies from all the English majors...) so they should be reorganized to be as close to the intended translation as possible, then maybe mix it up for level 2.
Would you be kind to explain why we cannot put 'hier' at the end of the sentence?
Previously, I put 'hier vom Himmel' together and was marked wrong. So I decided to separate them by using Fische 'Manchmal fallen hier Fische vom Himmel'. But I still do not get a good grasp of it, tho.
What's wrong with these: 1. Fische fallen manchmal hier vom himmel 2. Fische fallen manchmal vom himmel hier
In the tips, it says that manchmal either comes directly after a verb or at the beginning of the sentence. But no such rule is being followed in the accepted sentence. Am I missing something?
Adverbs come after the verb and follow the TMP (Time, manner, place) order with adverbs and your examples follow that. (hier after manchmal) (But not following TMP doesn't make the sentence incorrect.) But it is more natural to write the object (Fische) after the location (Himmel). In Duo's example machmal comes after fallen too.
And like you said, manchmal can come in the first position too. Manchmal fallen hier Fische vom Himmel. is accepted.
Your sentence is grammatically correct. You've followed the TMP (Time, place, manner) order and only switched Fische with hier. Though as far as I've noticed, in most sentences, they write the location before the object. So I think it's more natural to write "Hier fallen manchmal Fische vom Himmel".
I put "Fische fallen manchmal vom Himmel hier" and it was marked wrong. I have looked through the previous responses but cannot find a clear answer as to why.
Is it a matter of what you want the emphasis to be? In the Duolingo answer, is it emphasizing the "here", whereas in my answer it is emphasizing the "fish"? And if so, then without further context in the conversation it seems either answer could be correct.
In my native comprehension, I just know that fish, here, is plural. But, I'm thinking that it's because manchmal being sometimes, implies that more than one fish can or will fall from the sky. Because if it was only one fish, then it would happen only once, and "sometimes" wouldn't be plural, it would have to be "sometimes, a fish falls"; or, "at sometime a fish falls". So, perhaps simply, it's because it's sometime vs sometimes. I have observed that when there is a lack of clarity with English, we'll add more defining words that describe the situation; and here for me it's some-times. IOW, more than one time. lol, so in English, with "fish" being both plural and singular, we have it covered! ;-)
If you think about it in English. If one caught one fish; one might say jokingly, "I caught fish." which if the other person being a good friend might say, "fish" or "fishes"? :-D
The word fish, in English, is funny that way. "I caught many fish" and "I caught many fishes" mean the same thing, and "fishes" in this case just sounds wrong. How many fish falling from the sky did you catch? :-) Yep, fish is plural without having a defining article. 1 fish, 2 fish, 3 fish, blue fish. Dr Seuss taught us that! But, not in german... Ein Fisch, zwei Fische, drei Fische, blau Fisch. Maybe Duo should use that one: Translate this Dr. Seuss sentence... lol
It is actually correct. Here are some aus dem Himmel examples and vom Himmel examples. As I've noticed, most examples for "vom" are referring to something physically coming down from the sky but a lot of examples for "aus" are referring to something being from the sky. But there were examples of the second usage in the first link. (Remember when we used "aus" in sentences like Ich komme aus Deutschland etc.)
Here are some explanations of the differences between von and aus: von Vs. aus
Time, manner, place. Does not seem to apply here. So that has gone right out of the window for me ???? zb. (time)... Manchmal (manner)... fallen[V2] Fische (place)...vom (von dem)Himmel. Very wrong. So from now on, i'm going to try and place 'HIER' first and then try to work out the rest.
Why is this wrong: Fische fallen manchmal vom Himmel hier? It doesn't violate any rules that I know of =(
Secondly, can we use aus der instead of vom? How do we know when to use either of them?
Thridly, what should be the position of 'hier' here? (No pun intended)
Thanks in advance =)
Well, ‘gefallen’ can be present, but then it would be a different verb (‘mir gefällt’ = ‘I like’). bob690's sentence still slightly falls short of a correct past construction: that would need an auxiliary verb (in this case ‘sein’) to form the Perfekt: ‘manchmal sind hier Fische vom Himmel gefallen’ = ‘sometimes fish have fallen from the sky here’.
Another pointer to bob690: second position in main clauses must always host the conjugated verb. If ‘gefallen’ was meant to be the only verb, it's in the wrong position.