"Le professeur de mon fils est une jeune Portugaise."
Translation:My son's teacher is a young Portuguese woman.
36 Comments
51
the english emphasizes woman. Does the french sentence? No, i don't think so; therefore, i do not believe in english 'woman' would be required.
The French doesn't make the "woman" part more important than the rest, but it's still there. Translating by "Portuguese" may not be incorrect, but it lacks an information that was originally given, and translating is about losing as little information as possible.
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there are many times that Duo does not require the female noun to be translated literally. cats, dogs, police etc. so in this instance is it only for exercise sake or when it comes to nationality discriminating gender in translation is necessary?
You bring up a key point: it's helpful to realize that, in many respects, DL is grading "correctness" under the umbrella/rubric of translation (and not of expression).
I had an "ah-ha" moment when I realized that I needed to work the sentences as if I were a UN translator. Translate to lose as little information as possible, also to add nothing.
I've certainly learned sufficient French to express myself, so this is not a criticism of DL's method. Just a realistic take on how their process works.
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On the other hand, in the situation where one would use this sentence: yes, the gender would be included in French simply because of the language. Giving the gender in English where it is not needed makes me feel unneccesarily specific (and mildly sexist).
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Is the word 'woman'implied because of the spelling or is this an inaccurate translation? I was marked incorrect for omitting 'woman'.
"Portuguaise" can only be a Portuguese woman, whereas "Portuguais" can only be a Portuguese man. The english "Portuguese" doesn't specify the gender, but French always does.
Perhaps re-writing the sentence will make it clearer, what I meant....
It is clear that the person who is describing the professor already knows that the professor is a young Portuguese woman. Therefore, it makes no sense to refer to professor as "le".
Yes Mahty, we know the reference is to a Portuguese woman from the word Portugaise. If it were a man it would be Portugais → no e on the end.
I too am confused here. How is the word woman implied by the original sentence?
I have the same question as lecosse above. It is clear that the person who is describing the professor already knows that she is a young Portuguese woman. Therefore, it makes no sense to refer to professor as "le".
I understand that "Portuguese woman" is implied by the French "portugaise". What i don't understand is why "Le professeur" doesn't agree in gender. Are we to believe that the person who uttered the sentence didn't know the gender of the teacher until they got to the end of the sentence?
Because the point of the sentence is understanding the difference between the words used to identify genders of a nation : Australien vs Australienne, Français vs Française, Portugais vs Portugaise etc.. There is no need to for "le professeur de mon fils " to agree as it simply translates as "my son's teacher" (regardless of gender) in this sentence. This information is given by the word "Portugaise ".
By this logic the correct translation should be "The male professor of my son is a young Portuguese woman." Probably not correct. So, again, why is the gender of "professeur" not required to agree with the gender of "Portugaise"?
Some French nouns don't have male and female variations, and 'professeur' is one of them. 'Personne' is another - it is always gendered female, even if referring to a male ('Il est une personne', for example).
Which Larousse are you using?
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/professeur/63435
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Source: Larousse French Dictionary, 2011, ISBN 978-2-03-584227-5. See also https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/french-english/professeur. But see the discussion at https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/11899464/Une-professeur-ou-une-professeure. Usage appears to be evolving.
W-Ruggles-Wolfe is correct.
"Le professeur" does not translate to "the male teacher", simply "teacher".
Miss Ripcurl and Mr Wolfe have answered the whole sequence of comments. I offer a list of similar mono-gender nouns derived from
https://www.cliffsnotes.com/study-guides/french/french-i/french-i-nouns/the-gender-of-nouns
un agent de police (a police officer) un bébé (a baby) un chef (a chef, a leader, a head) un dentiste (a dentist) un docteur (a doctor) un écrivain (a writer) un ingénieur (an engineer) un libraire (a bookstore clerk) un mannequin (a model) un médecin (a doctor) un peintre (a painter) un pompier (a fire fighter) un professeur (a teacher) une connaissance (an acquaintance) une personne (a person) une star (a star) une vedette (a star) une victime (a victim)
All of which are intriguing in a language devoted to 'la difference'.
The original sentence doesn't say woman at all. The teacher of my son is a young Portugese. How is woman implied? Why not man? Please help. It seems something is missing here.
y'all are forgetting french is one of these GENDER EVERYWHERE language
The English "Portuguese" means "a Portuguese person"
The french "un portugais" means "a portuguese man" and "une portugaise " means "a Portuguese woman"
There is no gender neutral version. unless you want to say "A portuguese person", in which case "personne" is feminine so it'll be "Une personne portugaise"
Depending on context, "Une Portugaise" could be translated to "a Portuguese girl" or "a Portuguese female", but in this stand alone sentence, "a Portugese woman" is probably the best translation.
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This question has been asked already, but not clearly answered, so I'll ask it again. Why is it "Le professeur" and not "La professeur" in this sentence, when we are clearly talking about a female teacher (une Portugaise)? Just for the record, I understand that the word "professeur" does not change for gender, but the "Le" or "La" does, so my question is, why "Le" for a female teacher rather than "La"?
The definite article (le or la) refers to 'professeur'. 'Professeur' is a masculine noun, always, it therefore requires 'le', always. A female baby is masculine until she is une fille; and so on for a bunch of other nouns, with compensation I am happy to say, for the ladies so that 'une personne' is always feminine even if that person is male and, like myself, not at all confused about his gender.
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Thank you for your quick response. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand, and what I don't understand is, if "professeur" always requires "le," why do I see "la" with it when I read French sources? To show what I am talking about, here are some examples, which I have taken from official French government websites, French news sites (like Europe 1), a French blogger, and French Wikipedia:
"Le/la professeur, affecté au « secteur cours », est appelé à enseigner le français langue étrangère et prendre part aux différentes tâches garantissant le fonctionnement de ce secteur, ce qui inclut..." "Par décret du Président de la République en date du 11 juin 2018, la professeur Sophie CAILLAT-ZUCMAN est reconduite à la présidence du..." "La professeur Merkel, l'élève Sarkozy" "...les conneries de la professeur d’histoire de ma fille" "Madame Charlot, fut, durant toute la seconde moitié du XX e siècle, la professeur de chant la plus demandée dans le milieu du show-biz français." "Le tribunal administratif de Nancy a confirmé hier après-midi la suspension de la professeur d'histoire du lycée Loritz accusée dans un rapport de l'inspection ..." "La professeur a porté plainte le lendemain des faits, ..."
I suspect that it has to do w/the Académie française and the ongoing dispute/discussion re: feminization of «noms de métiers, fonctions, grades ou titres».
If my memory is correct, the Academy's position is that «professeur» is gendered male and only male. There is no female equivalent (i.e., they haven't approved «professeure»), and they do not approve of «la professeur».
However, that doesn't mean folks don't use sundry female 'versions' in everyday/common usage. You'll see «la professeur», «la professeure» popping up now and again.
https://forum.lefigaro.fr/forum/affich-340-professeure-ou-professeur
From what I've encountered, the volunteer contributors at DL stick pretty closely to the Academy's POV and formal written French. What you encounter in the wild (much like spoken French) will be different.
Well I am overturned. Who am I to disagree with the French government etc. However I have just read M. Ruggles-Wolfe and must suppose he is right. As with the English, what is formally correct French is not always common usage (how many English speakers use 'whom' where they should?). Perhaps n6zs or sitesurf might comment for us. I am impressed with your auxiliary reading, my own is more limited.
@Troy_G, @lecosse:
It seems the Academy's position re: feminization of work titles is evolving. See the below.
https://www.france24.com/en/20190228-french-language-academie-francaise-feminisation-professions
In these days of gender neutrality, it seems odd to require the English version to be gender specific.
It's because the meaning of the French sentence is "a Portuguese woman/girl/female". Without the gender in the English sentence you lose some of the meaning in the French.
