"She can give us her car."
Translation:Ella nos puede dar su automóvil.
"Ella puede nos dar su coche." is apparently not right. My daughter (who takes spanish in high school) says the object pronoun needs to go before the verb, even though nos is not the object of the verb (puede), but is in fact the object of dar. Argh.
seems more common to me, but it might be due to lack of context. First, I assume that DL gives this translation because it's almost verbatim from English, rather than any other intention.
Nevertheless, in a conversation about transportation, when some people is discussing about how to get there, one can use that as a emphasis.
In Spanish this subtle emphasis is used very often to send an idea across. To give you an idea, if you want to repeat once again an idea, a Spanish would never use expressions like "as I said, as said before, once more, once again,..." it sounds very rude in Spanish.
what are you talking about? are you a native English speaker? We would never say "she us can give her car." Never.
"Ella nos puede darnos su coche" was marked wrong. Also, I think that "puede" is a helping verb. Thus, the object has to go before it.
Right - you don't need the "nos" in both places.
Either: "Ella nos puede dar su coche"
Or: "Ella puede darnos su coche"
Well, you have "nos" object twice. That is incorrect. Puede (poder) is the main verb. It is a helping verb in English, but not in Spanish. Dar is not conjugated though.
the object pronoun can go "before" the conjugated verb or "after" and attached to the infinitive.
Ella nos puede dar su coche.
Ella puede darnos su coche.
This would absolutely be the case in modern French. So I lost my heart too...;(
Object pronouns go before changed verbs or sfter infinitives. Nos pueda dar...pueda dar nos
puede darnos - unless you mean the subjunctive? Also, the infinitive pronoun pair is always written as one word.
Darnos? Can we do that with any infinitive verb? Oinos for hearing us for example? (and why isn't Duolingo explaining this.....?)
I read a reply from one of the Duolingo staff, saying that Duolingo doesn't believe anyone would bother reading any grammar lessons, so that's why they don't bother making them. I personally would read the grammar lessons, but I'm only one person. It would take a lot of requests to get them to add them. It would be cool if the grammar lessons were interactive like the tests, and if they are worried about people liking them, they could be made optional.
That being said, this particular grammar point is discussed pretty clearly around the web, I like this one from StudySpanish:
I find that even after 'understanding' how Spanish objects work, it takes a lot of practice before being comfortable using them. You might want to search around Youtube for a lesson that you can listen to, so that they start to 'sound right.'
I personally find that knowing the grammar first slows me down, and brings me back to translating. After using Duo for a while, I find myself correcting what I say because it sounds wrong, not because I thought through the grammar. Personally, I like this method better, I've learned more here than from working through grammar books or having teachers explain it. I'd rather get the grammar AFTER the AH HA moment. It makes more sense then. Once I have that, I look for patterns, verbs and phrases that work the same way, and look up the explanations in grammar books. But different people have different learning styles.
You make a really good point here, and to it I'll add that this is how we learn our own native languages. We learn to speak and hear them, and then later we learn why they work the way they work. As children, our language skills are very advanced before we start to learn grammar rules.
It seems that all Spanish teachers sort of soft pedal that aspect of Spanish until later in the course, I guess perhaps so that students fully learn the other way.
Why do you think it needs the "a"? "Su coche" doesn't fit the "personal a" criteria of person or pet. And there is no sense of "to the car" expressed in the sentence, that might call for an expression like "a suc coche".
I recorded "Ella nos puede dar su coche", and was really happy that I understood, that I got it right and could move on to the next one. But the lesson screen displayed "Ella puede DARNOS su coche" as the correct translation. And then I see at the top of the discussion what I actually recorded. So ... "darnos", wow, major concept, epiphany ... light shines through. Indirect object pronoun tacked on to the end of the infinitive "dar"?
What's wrong with "Ella puede dar su coche a nosotras."? Are there rules that you can't put the indirect object after the direct object?
Nosotras is a subject pronoun and isn't used as an object pronoun (except the object of a preposition).You have recognized 'a nosotras' as an indirect object. You need to place the IDO before the conjugated verb. A nosotras is optional but really redundant.
"Nos puede dar su coche" was not accepted. The correct answer, I think, was given as "Ella puede darnos su coche." I didn't think Ella was required, and darnos never occurred to me.
"Nos puede dar su coche." should have been accepted. Also note that "Nos puede dar su coche." AND "Puede darnos su coche." are both correct. "nos" can appear before the conjugated verb or attached to the infinitive. They are both correct.
On another lesson I used nos and lost a heart because only nosotros was accepted so wrote the whole word here and lost heart again. why is nos right and nosotros not accepted. How would I determine which is right?
Someone noted that nosotros can only be used as a subject. Someone else noted that nosotros can be used when it's the object of a propositional phrase (ex: para nosotras). I used "nos" twice (Ella nos puede darnos su coche) and lost a heart. Someone else noted that "nos" can come either before the phrase (that is, before the helping verb) or attached to the infinite, but not in both places.
The sentence I had immediately before this was "Esto no te lo puedo dar" (I cannot give you this). Why is no "lo" required in this one?
I have seen this question crop up a lot lately in various forms and it baffles me, because direct object pronouns work equivalently in both of the languages.
"Lo" is a direct object pronoun, equivalent to English "it" and functioning exactly the same. It is a replacement for some unstated direct object. In this sentence, the direct object is "su coche", there is no need for an extra pronoun, just like there is no need in the English sentence to put "it" anywhere.
Are you mixing this up with "le", the indirect object pronoun? That one is mandatory to use even if the indirect object is already in the sentence.
I'm baffled, too, and really trying to understand, and continually being tripped up by these tiny words -- my understanding might be affected by English grammar? It's just that "Esto" in the first sentence seems equivalent to "coche" in the second - both "this" and "car" would be the object of their respective sentences in English. So if one requires the "lo," it seemed to me the other would too. Is "esto" what you mean by "unstated" direct object?
Ah, OK, that was misspoken by me. There is one exception to "lo never duplicates the word it stands for", and that is when the word order in the sentence is inverted (something that doesn't happen in English). Note how in "Esto no te lo puedo dar", the direct object "esto" is the first word in the sentence. In that case, you need to duplicate the word with "lo" to mark it as a direct object. But apart from that, I don't think there are any more exceptions to the general idea that direct object pronouns are used instead of, not with direct objects.
Regalar is to give as in to give as a gift, or to give away something for free.
Just regular giving is dar.
That would be Ella no nos puede dar su coche. or Ella no puede darnos su coche. You've used third person plural with the verb for second person singular, placed nos in between puede and dar (where it never goes in Spanish), and left out the negative.
Nos means us. darnos in my example is dar+nos, written as one word. Spanish requires object pronouns, direct or indirect, to be put in front of the entire verb phrase, or if the verb phrase includes an infinitive or a gerund, they can be attached to the end of the infinitive or gerund.
Why can't you say "su coche puede darnoslo?" In another sentence it was "esto no puedo dartelo" to mean "I can't give you this" so what's different here?