https://www.duolingo.com/profile/karint

Crowns FAQ

  • 1293

Hi everyone!

A few months ago, we told you about Skill Levels (now referred to as “Crown Levels” or “Crowns”) and how excited we were to bring them to everyone. Every new user has gotten Crowns for a while now. And as you probably noticed, we have started transitioning learners with older accounts to the new system, too.

Of course, with any change comes a lot of concern and confusion, especially with such a dedicated user base. With this latest small rollout, we were able to gather lots of feedback and questions from you! We not only want to address the main ones in this forum post, but we also plan to shoot out an email to everyone who switches into Crowns to make sure we reach all our learners.

So, here are a bunch of questions and concerns, and our attempts to address them. If we missed yours, let us know in the comments!


Crowns FAQ

What are Crowns?

Crowns are a new feature that we believe lets us teach better. Each skill you do has a “Crown Level” associated with it. When you level up a skill, you earn a Crown, and the types of exercises you see will get harder. You can choose to go deeper into skills and level them up or continue on to new skills to learn new content.

This is a total redesign of the skill tree that solves one of Duolingo’s biggest challenges: remaining fun for casual learners while still offering advanced content for serious learners. Casual learners can still go through the whole tree fairly easily, while more advanced learners can get a lot more depth by leveling up their skills and earning Crowns.

You can think of Crowns as adding a new dimension to the tree. Instead of just moving down the tree, you can now also move deeper into each skill. This allows us to give you more challenging exercises (like listening and typing in your learning language) when you're ready for it — and only if you want it.

We encourage you to check out the original post introducing Crowns for more details.

I lost all of my progress!

Don’t worry, you really didn’t. It may be surprising to find skills that were once gold are now colorful again, but all your lessons that were “completed” before are still completed. We also still track your strength for each word just like we used to.

We went one step further and actually used how many times you’ve seen the words in a skill and how many times you got those words right to determine whether to place you at Level 1, 2, or 3. Since levels get harder as you go up, we didn’t feel comfortable placing anyone at Level 4 or 5, since the old system didn’t give hard enough exercises to place into these levels. Of course, if you already know the language very well, this may not be the right level. But, it is still more challenging than what was offered before.

Will my progress decay over time?

There are no plans to make skill progress decay over time. Once you earn a crown, you get to keep it! This actually reduced a lot of confusion from learners who felt they lost progress when their skills decayed. We want our users to be able to see their knowledge growing over time with each lesson they do.

What about spaced repetition? How do I know what to practice next?

This is something we are actively working on. There’s a lot of choice with this new system, and though some learners love that choice, others prefer recommendations for what to do. We are gathering lots of data on current usage to try to make an intelligent system that suggests the right next steps for each learner. This will take some time, but it’s really important to us.

In the meantime the practice button is always there, which takes your weakest words into account when choosing what you should practice. Our community has also shared great suggestions for what works for them. Personally, I learn new content until I feel overwhelmed, then go back and level up skills to practice and get more comfortable with things.

Does the “practice” button do anything?

Practice works exactly as it did before, but it no longer has a visual effect on your tree. This means that while practice helps you review and strengthen words that need it, it does not level up skills or unlock new content by doing it. This was the case before Crowns as well.

We want to replace this with something more satisfying in the future.

Will we have the option to use the old system?

We want to be super transparent here: Crowns will go out to everyone. This change is necessary to improve how we teach and add more difficult content for those who want it. The gains we’ve seen are incredible. We understand that some of you will miss or prefer the old system at first, but we’re optimistic you will adapt to love this system too :)

The old system had several years of improvements and iterations. That’s why we’re so excited that this new system is doing even better. Just imagine all we can accomplish from this new starting point!

Who has Crowns now? When will I get them?

About half of all users are on Crowns. New users have had them for a while, and we gave around 10% of legacy accounts the option to switch into Crowns. Some users were also switched automatically, and metrics are looking great for this A/B test as well.

We will roll out Crowns to everyone in the next few weeks.

Can I test out of Levels? It takes a really long time to get to Level 5.

Not currently, but you don’t have to get to Level 5 right away! We in fact recommend you don’t get to Level 5 all in one go. Level 5 is there to show that you have practiced the words in that skill a ton and probably don’t need further practice on it for quite a while. It’s completely optional. We definitely think we can do a better job of encouraging you not to binge on one skill, though, since that can feel really repetitive. And of course we take the blame for motivating you to love and aim for gold skills!

We are considering options for users to prove their existing knowledge on skills so they can be placed at the right difficulty from the start. We also want to make it more satisfying to complete each level (and not necessarily get all the way to Level 5).

I miss being able to practice individual skills.

We didn’t remove skill practice; we rebranded it! With Crowns, we turned skill practice into more lessons. With the old system, you would complete a skill once then practice however much you wanted to. With Crowns, you still complete the skill once to be able to advance, but then you’re able to practice with increasing difficulty and get concrete progress and credit each time.

I miss being able to see words in each lesson.

We can consider bringing it back in some form, but right now we think investing in better ways to see and practice words makes more sense.

I miss my fluency score.

Despite our efforts, the fluency score wasn’t as accurate as we wanted it to be. It caused a lot of confusion, especially for learners who didn’t understand why it never reached 100%. We may revisit it later, but for now it was causing more harm than good.

I can’t pick what lesson I want to do anymore.

We want to give the right balance of choice and guidance, and we’re still tweaking that. So far, we haven’t been hearing complaints that content is too difficult; the feedback has been that difficulty is effortless and natural or that it’s too easy. Therefore, we aren’t concerned at this time that skills are advancing too quickly for learners.

My tree all looks the same now. I miss gold skills.

This is one of our own biggest criticisms of Crowns, too. We’re trying to figure out ways to display Crowns better so that people can be satisfied hitting each level, not just Level 5. There are a lot of ideas for how to do this, but it’s not easy to make a 5-tiered system that doesn’t clash with all the existing colors and doesn’t make things overly complex. We’re actively working on it!

You said Crowns did really well in A/B testing. What exactly did it do?

We saw gains across the board: learners using the app more, sticking around on Duolingo longer, completing more lessons, typing in their learning language more, and doing harder exercises. We’re working on a blog post to share some of these findings with you, so stay tuned!


Thank you all for being such a passionate community. We are happy to see both positive and negative feedback, because it shows how much everyone cares about this experience that is Duolingo. Please continue to help each other learn and grow, and we will keep doing our best to bring you the best possible language learning experience.

Happy learning!

March 28, 2018

2061 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/michaelsobsey55

I miss the preview feature from the old system. I saw the words which would be in the lesson and sometimes I used a French dictionary to define and practice pronunciation to prepare for the lesson. Now I have to jump right into the lesson with no idea what the words are. It is also okay, but I prefer the old preview and tips to no preview and no tips. I actually see no reason for its elimination. This said I love that I have all these new exercises to look forward to. I was getting concerned as I closed in on completing the tree that there would be no new lessons. When the crowns popped up one day I was very delighted to see them.

March 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pentaan

.... no tips .....

The grammar "Tips and notes" are still available in the desktop mode of www.duolingo.com
Picture: https://i.imgur.com/wWY1Fpf.png The light bulb takes you to the "Tips and Notes"

March 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CateDS

Not overly helpful if, like me, the only reason one comes to the desktop mode is to submit a complaint or search the forums!

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kenan820

Agreed

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pentaan

Workaround
Use third party website Duome:
https://duome.eu/tips

August 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TinaMorris4

How did I not see that light bulb before?!? It seems so obvious now. ETA: It is not available for all skills. I wanted to check something I was just assuming after completing Italian Conjuctions Level 1, but it is not there for that skill.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

Some of the skills don't have any notes to start with.

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tiramisues

I used it all the time too and made my flashcards from the wordlist before a lesson.

My workaround is making your own classroom then you can see the "curriculum" and have the words and tips and notes for all the skills in one place.

March 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ontalor

I do have one question. I depend a lot on SRS, so I'll still be using the Practice feature a lot. When we level up skills and it increases the difficulty of the exercises, when we then go to Practice, will the words that have higher skill levels unlocked require the more difficult exercises?

So essentially if I had the first half of the tree on level 5, and the second half on level 1, and went to do a Practice, it would give me easier exercises for the words I was weak on in the bottom of the tree than in the top?

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

A question I'd like answered too!

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PotatoSanta

I am glad Duolingo is trying new features and things but if they want to be more effective why don't they try to improve the quality of the courses themselves? Most are great especially the original ones. However, I sometimes get the feeling that some of the newer courses are rushed or neglected and that the preference has become quantity over quality. Some courses have no sound and it is starting to look like they never will, others are left with errors that never get fixed. The discussion area is full of feedback about what users do and don't like and what improvements could be made which could be useful constructing better courses in the future but this never seems to happen.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heike333145

You cannot allocate the resources that Duolingo has to any task. In order to work on a specific course, you need the specific qualifications (being fully proficient in the two languages involved, for example). This can be a problem in particular in languages that have few speakers.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PotatoSanta

Swahili is in desperate need of work, according to Wikipedia there could be up to 100 million speakers at the very most, so I don't know what their excuse could be. There is still no sound and it really should not be out of beta. With constructed languages I get that there are few speakers but the Klingon contributors are still active and perfectly willing to do the recordings, yet they have to convince Duolingo to allow it. Chances are we will see more courses released without sound, which I find frustrating and less fun especially when you are constantly held back for answers that should be accepted. No sound and short trees that don't really teach much are no fun and in my opinion not sufficient.

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heike333145

Swahili is in desperate need of work, according to Wikipedia there could be up to 100 million speakers at the very most, so I don't know what their excuse could be.

Sure, there may be many speakers of the language, but if they are not here, on Duolingo, and don't have the other qualifications required, and aren't willing to be contributors, this doesn't change a thing.

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PotatoSanta

In the end I think it is up to Duolingo to sort that out. If they were looking for people to help they should have been able to find some by now.

March 31, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blueandnerdy

They don't need Swahili speakers--they need native English speakers to make the course usable with correct spelling and grammar.

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lizsue

Here's how they found people to help for English for Ukrainian speakers, Ukrainian for English speakers, Swahili for English speakers, and Guarani for Spanish speakers: https://technical.ly/dc/2016/06/03/peace-corps-duolingo-language-courses/

If you're wondering why the United States Peace corps made a Guarani for Spanish speakers course, maybe it's because the enlistees they send to work for a few years in Paraguay need to learn Spanish anyway as well as Guarani so why not let them practice their Spanish while learning the other required language?

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

Most speakers of Swahili are probably in poverty and considering this a free site with volunteer course contributors, they may not have time to contribute to a course on Swahili.

April 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lizsue

See https://qz.com/921456/duolingo-launches-a-swahili-course-its-23rd-language/ about who got Swahili for English speakers into beta:

...The course was requested by the Peace Corps Tanzania program to help train Americans, and Peace Corps volunteers spent 18 months helping the company develop it...

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lizsue

For some of the courses, Duolingo has a partnership with the U.S. Peace Corps, which has also been teaching languages since before Duolingo existed.

Swahili for English speakers is one of these courses.

Duolingo needs to get back in touch with the Peace Corps about Swahili, not just hope for applications from random volunteers

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UweRo
  • 1694

Yes the swahili is realy a mess. I haven't seen a message from duolingo, hey we need some native speakers. I like duolingo and the idea of free learning but in this case i think it's just neglience.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/giorgishen1

Yeah, but Japanese is pretty popular language overall. It's massively popular on duo, too, in spite of being beta. I think it's top 7th or something like that, but the tree is short and unfinished. I know it's in beta and all, but it's being in beta stage for months and it'll still not make the tree any longer. I appreciate volunteers work (Thank You), but Duo should take it more seriously

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HalJam
  • 1598
March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terry614373

I got the option, but the wording used for encouraging the selection to change was misleading. I want to switch back so badly, I could cry.

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HalJam
  • 1598
April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shirlgirl007

Terry614 I felt the same way for the first few days, but now having worked with this new system, I find I love it, and I honestly feel my knowledge base is expanding. Give it a try. I am not aware if you can switch back, or not.. Best of luck, don't cry, just keep on trying..

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terry614373

I like it less today than the first day I got it. I’m tiring fast of doing basics to retrieve my gold back. To break up the monotony, I work on a skill from the bottom until it gets to Crown 5; then, I go back and get to a Crown 5 on the next skill at the top. I go back and forth on my tree getting each one to Crown 5. But it’s so boring that I’m making a lot more silly mistakes.

I just purchased the Babbel course, because of these DL changes. Babbel is a lot more stimulating and is actually teaching some conversation I would actually use.

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danmoller

Duolingo works with AB tests:

  • A group of users get the new features
  • Another group keep the old features

Then they measure internally which group is learning better, which group spends more time practicing, and which group is abandoning Duolingo more often.

Crowns was not different. They just gave someone the option to "participate" in the test "before a decision was taken".

Probably because this change was too big to just randomly push into old users without they knowing it.

Now they have the test results and they know Crowns really improved their metrics, they've decided that this new feature is a success (it passed the test), and instead of cancelling it (which is what happens with features with bad metrics) they are adopting it.

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HalJam
  • 1598
April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wstockall

We've moved past the "A/B test" phase and moved into the "staged roll out" phase. They are gradually moving everyone over to the new system. Some people have found a hack that allows them to temporarily bypass this setup, it's not something that was offered by Duolingo. I don't expect it will work for much longer.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HalJam
  • 1598
April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-.Andrew.-

Y'know...

I actually agree with you on that. Back then when they gave achievements to PC users, I suddenly had them, and did not want them.

The option to choose between either having a new feature that Duo comes out with or keeping the older version would be nice. Even if Duo switches everyone over to said feature, the option to have or not have during the testing would be fair to all users, in my opinion.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terry614373

What’s the hack. I desperately want it!!!!

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-.Andrew.-

Very nicely explained, Dan.

Concise and keeping anything extraneous out.
Thank you!

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/laceyallyn

The purpose is 'user testing'. When a product team is determining what changes / improvements to keep in a digital product, they need a scientific way to measure success. They probably tried quite a few different ideas and versions of each ideas on users before settling on the crown system.

Just having new users tell them how much they like it, or having all old users complain about having to switch, isn't very helpful because you lack a control group.

The product team defines what 'success' means, based somewhat on past behavior. I'm guessing they discovered that - most users didn't spend enough time reviewing the levels they learned to actually remember the language - similarly, it's actually quite easy to turn a level gold with a single practice level and turning levels gold was the primary goal of most users. Therefore, most users wouldn't practice levels enough to experience the different variations of the content. - once your tree is gold, or if you lose a big streak and have to start over, you're unlikely to get started again.

Judging by the changes, I assume that they received feedback that - individual levels were hard to learn at first because of mixed practice methods (typing in your learning language is harder than in your native language), - that many people learning languages have never had formal training in typing and found the timed levels impossible (these are also the people duolingo is most passionate about helping)

If the new crown system wasn't helping users achieve these goals better than the past system, they wouldn't have changed everyone over to it.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solipsism5

"I'm guessing they discover that - most users didn't spend enough time reviewing the levels they learned to actually remember the language" -

The new system has no method of review, because they got rid of the decay system which is fundamental to learning languages. Review is left up to the user now and people will have to keep track of when they last did a lesson to emulate Duo's old system. This is just a really bad idea.

"Therefore most user wouldn't practice levels enough to experience the different variations of content."

This hasn't changed so what are you talking about? They are just repeating the same lessons over and over again to attain higher levels.

"Many people learning languages have never had formal training in typing,"

Duo still requires typing so what does that have to do with anything?

"if the new crown system wasn't helping users achieve these goals better than the past system, they wouldn't have changed everyone over to it."

I'm afraid this post makes virtually no sense at all. Let us just say I'm highly skeptical people would voluntarily choose this new system over the old one. Duo just made a bad decision but hopefully they will correct it in the future. I am nearly certain Duo will lose users without the correction. Maybe there are people on here that like the new system but it is so apparently bad in so many ways I'm sure they will be losing people. I'd hate to have them learn this lesson the hard way. Please take this criticism as something that will help Duo do well in the future.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HalJam
  • 1598
April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vivifie2

I'm afraid you are very optimistic. I was a researcher for years and can tell you that the same data may have many interpretations. It is not so easy to tease out the issues. It may be that they were correct and some people found it too hard. I imagine that might be very language specific anyway. I tried to learn Vietnamese and needed to go at a snails pace. Learning Italian is different a different story. The same repetition that was appropriate for learning Vietnamese would drive me crazy in Italian.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thbeefos

While this information does clarify a lot about the new system, the removal of skills decaying is very concerning, as that's what I rely on to maintain my knowledge. It's not really necessary to reinvent the entire wheel, so to speak. I hope that this particular aspect will be reconsidered, as consistent practice is necessary when learning a language, and I worry that the removal of this feature will make it harder to learn efficiently as it becomes more about grinding levels rather than actually learning and maintaining the language skills.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Multi0Lingual4

Still don't like the fact that timed practice is not available until the fifth crown...

March 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tranklements

I have timed practice at every crown level. If you are using the web version of duolingo with Chrome, try the strengthen skills pro extension, https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/duolingo-strengthen-skill/ggooojmooaenngobdaacnpmonmdgfakl?hl=en

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisa454630

Is it just me or is it not ridiculous that we, the people that support this app and keep it alive, have to find ways to make IT work for us? It was simple and it did work. In one foul move, all of a sudden we are all looking for hacks. It’s ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisaskier

Whilst "Crown" will be a great learning tool for someone just starting out with Duo, for those of us who have been here for some time it is VERY boring & repetitive.

It would have been so much better if , when forcing this change upon us, Duo could have implemented a different start point for those who had already achieved Level 25.

Repeating the basics is great & necessary, but not to this mind-numbing extent.

I am bored out of my mind!

March 31, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AureliaUK

I've only had Crowns for 2 days and I'm already bored out of my tree(s) with the endless repetition. Its absolutely bloody soul-destroyingly tedious.

I can't see me sticking around much longer. Four years ago this site and its approach worked for me. Now it doesn't.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fitt3
  • 1354

We can only hope for the best

March 31, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisaskier

You are absolutely right :]

March 31, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookrabbit

I am concerned that it will now be too difficult/time consuming to run through a tree to refresh my memory after not using it for a while. I used to quickly use the app to regild a tree to bring it all back to the forefront of my mind before then using the website to review more challenging material later in the tree. Then you neglected the kindle app to the point of uselessness so I did it by repeating lessons instead, which now won't be possible. I would like to be able to use timed practice for this but because the time is so short and I have arthritis and can't type fast enough with my one finger approach this doesn't work at all. I simply don't have time to answer more than one or two questions even when i don't make any typos.

I have a feeling that you have been testing many aspects of crowns on me without the crowns as the questions have been getting more difficult and the lessons contain many more of them. While I like this once I have brushed up on a language and am ready to progress it it is disheartening to have each lesson take so long that it becomes a chore when I am not ready for it. This is especially discouraging on a tree which hasn't had many alternatives added so you have to memorize the exact sometimes poorly phrased answer in order to get it right even when you understand perfectly well what the sentence means. A single lesson shouldn't take twenty minutes as it makes it harder to fit duolingo into available time. I have been having trouble staying awake during sessions sometimes!

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheHolyV

I totally agree with this

I am concerned that it will now be too difficult/time consuming to run through a tree to refresh my memory

My completed tree looked almost all gold. All it would have needed to be all gold would have been 70-100xp at most. Now it seems to require several THOUSAND xps to be considered "complete" again. In essence, I have to put as much effort in it again as I have already put in to complete the course, but a lot of that time will be spent on lessons which are way too basic for me now. A massive, massive task but with no incentive to do it because I would be wasting time on trivial information!

Plus, honestly we all know that Duolingo can take you only until a certain point with learning a language. And that point is quite basic. I think the app was more honest in its previous version, when that was acknowledged by the amount of time you need to complete the tree and then you were supposed to reviewed it every now and then to keep everything gold... but for the rest you were rightfully on your own to bring yourself to the next step. Now they seem to think they can teach you WAY more and yet the lessons have remained the same... they just demand ten times the time it takes to complete the tree. This is NOT conducive to learn a language properly!

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daffodil2015

Particularly since the content does NOT become more difficult as you progress. I've turned my Crown 3 in Participle to a Crown 4 and in all six lessons I've seen at most six participles (dedicado, sentado, publicado, cocinado and I don't even remember the last two). Plus which, the lessons had errors in them. For instance "the neighbor is seated" does not accept "el vecino", it only accepts "la vecina".

It's not like the content has changed dramatically so as to warrant such time and effort being spent. Totally unhappy with being forced into Crowns - yes, in the short term I did spend more time on Duo because I was curious to see if indeed the lessons get more difficult as advertised, but I'm pretty sure I won't waste my time trying to get to Crown 5 in Basics. In the long run... hmmm, don't think I'll spend (waste) my time redoing the same lessons just to make them Crown 5 and perennial :D

*Later edit - there are about eight, not six participles, and the lessons in level 4 are exactly the same - EXACTLY the same as those in level 3. This is getting more ridiculous the more time I spend on it :( That's why they don't advise getting to level 5 in one go, because then you realize exactly just how few lessons there are and how they are repeated - i.e. no new content, no increased difficulty, just a trick to get people to spend more time redoing the same things over and over again. Really disappointed with this new forced feature.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doctorwhoo

I thought it was a problem with not so popular trees like Japanese for instance, but seeing that even in Spanish, the most advanced Duo course, the lessons don't really get more difficult, that's kinda saddening.

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wstockall

I don't really think Spanish is "the most advanced Duo course". There are some features that are available for Spanish that are not available in some other trees (stories, chat bots, for example), but the main language tree needs a lot of work. Apparently there is a new version being alpha tested, but it's not yet available to the masses.

I have gone through the French tree, the German tree and the Spanish tree. Both of the others are better than the Spanish one. The English for Spanish speakers tree was much better than the Spanish for English speakers.

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HurOV7SG

I agree wholeheartedly with this post. I liked being able to go back and strengthen certain skills. I haven't the time or the energy to go right back to having to complete lessons like 'I am a boy' when what I wanted was to move on to slightly more complicated language skills. I do appreciate that there is a limit to what Duolingo can do and that the fluency bar was pretty useless, but the rest of the system seemed to work well.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carolin_o

@bookrabbit, You make a really important point about the accessibility of the timed lessons. Tangentially, People who had to switch from one keyboard to another had a similar complaint, as did people who simply don't type so fast or accurately in any language. By the way, that's probably one major cause of the failure of longer sentences. Back to the real point: I haven't seen a forum at all regarding accessibility / (UD (user design, not UX - usability) and there should be one somewhere.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dlhgl

In case you don't have the time to finish a lesson at once, maybe a workaround is to leave the app or browser window open and continue at a later time?

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agave9
  • 1119

Well, I'm sad. I got crowns today. I really have no clue how I'm going to continue to learn on Duolingo. I have been going very slow and steady. I liked to keep my tree golden and only then move on to something new. I wanted to understand things before I moved on. Without spaced repetition and skill decay I'm not sure how comfortable I'll be trying to move down the tree. And yes, I know, they say they're working on spaced repetition. However, I hold out no hope that what they come out with will work for me.

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fitt3
  • 1354

It's a sad day for non-beginners

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-.Andrew.-

Truly...

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

Well said!

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sedlacek_m

Believe me, it's ❤❤❤❤ for beginners too....

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWarr

There have been several comments today saying that spaced repetition and skill decay has gone, but it hasn't. It's just not so easily visible anymore. If you look at https://duolingo.eu/Agave9/progress/ it will show you your strength in each skill. Full strength skills will show as 100%, even if you don't have 5 Crowns in that skill. Having just completed my tree (Italian) when Crowns came in, I wasn't sure how to proceed. I was assigned 1 Crown in each skill. Having discovered duolingo.eu, I decided to use the skill strengths shown there to guide my future work. When a skill decays below 100%, I do a lesson or 2 in that skill, and it returns the strength to 100%. That way, I'm focusing my effort on skills on which I need to work, rather than spending time on skills that are already strong.
FWIW, since I first completed my tree, 13 skills near the top of the tree have never decayed, so I haven't spent any time on those.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lethe-DFD

That's really not useful if you're using the app at all though. It's not really useful to have decay if you're not able to easily view it... But in the short term, I do appreciate the tip.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/territech

I find this extremely helpful. I can quickly identify my weakest sections, click on the skill name to open a page to work on that section. When all are at 100%, then I can try to acquire more crowns and see if I find that useful. From now on, this page will be my starting point.

A lingot for you!

That link opens to the Spanish tree. How do I see the data for the other trees?

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/niahrya

I think it's depending on which language you have as the currently active one. e.g., I have Italian and Portuguese (for English speakers). When I have done some work on my Italian tree and open the link, it shows me data for the Italian language. If I switch to my Portuguese tree and do some work there, the link will display the related data of the Portuguese language.

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/territech

You are correct, Niahrya. Thank you for the response.

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HumaShaz

Thanks for the incredible tip. It was a life saver. Now, I have something to look forward to in Duolingo.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A.Igor

Thanks for the link, really helpful!

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agave9
  • 1119

Thanks

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/speising

I understand that your metric for success in A/B tests is how long a user uses the service (=how many ads they see). But a more useful metric for us learners would be how well we remember the content, how well we speak the language.

All of the metrics you mentioned only mean the users did more work, which is basically the opposite of what we we want, unless all that work really pays off.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lrtward

They do measure how well we remember the content. In fact, this is what is used in deciding whether we are at level 1, 2, or 3 when we get moved from the old system to the new system.

Once in the new system, our ratio of correct/incorrect responses plus time since last exposure is what determines what we see when we do timed practice.

How well we remember content is one of the key metrics (if not THE key metric) behind Duolingo. That, along with gamification, is what makes Duo so effective.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carolin_o

Uh, this seems nonsensical. How well we remember content is not used in deciding whether we are at level 1, 2 or 3 for at least one common set of circumstances. Languages I was already well-versed in before Duolingo came along were converted at level 2 even if I went back and did refreshers recently. Remember that lots of people test out of things because they have real deep knowledge of part of the basics -before- beginning the lessons. It appears to me that has not been credited in the shift; in fact, it's been penalized. Something is very off in your descriptions. I think statements like this that are so out of sync with outcomes in people's experience explain why some of the mods get a reputation of being salespeople.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DaireOBroi

Hear hear! Bring back test out!

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lrtward

Good point. Duolingo can only track how well we remember words in exercises we do on Duolingo. Duolingo has no knowledge of how well we know a language outside of the application. That's why a native English speaker could have only 8% English fluency under the old fluency meter - Duo can only measure what's done on Duo.

So if we test out or go through early lessons with zero mistakes, all that Duo knows is we've seen it once, no mistake. If they don't already do it, the developers could probably improve their algorithm by weighting test-out exposure more heavily than new lesson exposure.

I can see why mods sometimes come across as salespeople. We're pretty passionate about this project and that probably influences how we view things.

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HalJam
  • 1598
March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daffodil2015

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with Lrtward. They do not measure how well we remember the content, or else I would have been in crown level 5 for most skills. I've had several hundred lessons without a mistake (unless you count those that I reported and eventually manage to get accepted - so it was the system's mistake, not mine). I've done all of them in timed practice, because that's how I learn best, when I'm challenging myself. I'm not trying to brag, I'm just saying that the system doesn't actually measure users' knowledge or recall accurately. I don't mind I was put in level 3, because I really don't care about hierarchy here, but I suspect that more competitive users will find this rather annoying.

As for gamification, it works when the game is interesting and/or challenging. This new system is neither. I am sure that I'm not going to endlessly repeat the same lessons just to get to level 5. And I know the lessons are the same, because I just tested the system tonight. So as far as I'm concerned, if Duo doesn't provide new content, the tree can stay colored - it's actually prettier this way.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CateDS

"They do measure how well we remember the content. In fact, this is what is used in deciding whether we are at level 1, 2, or 3 when we get moved from the old system to the new system."

So then - really? I have to go back to zero crowns, zero lessons in my VERY FIRST section, to re-learn "yes" and "no"??? Ummmmm no! I have submitted two reports to the help desk in the last week, saying I had lost all my lessons (before transitioning to crowns), and go no response at all... and now still!

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/speising

so they use the data once for conversion, and then when you have everything up to CL5? and what about the time in between? you know, the things that are actually new, the crown levels? all those countless lessions from CL 2 or 3 up to 5 seem to be fixed, not dynamic.

i agree that the dynamic nature of the system is key in making DL effective, which is why it's sad to see they took that big step back when implementing the new system.

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SverkerJanson

Wow. This was a huge and disappointing setback. I do not under any circumstances want to get into mindless grinding on old skills, which clearly does not take into account my current level: "un hombre, una mujer" - give me a break. I have been practicing Spanish daily for a year and a half. Maintaining the trees golden has continued to support my learning while graduating to other material and conversation. The motivational signal of having skills that need to be regilded has been invaluable. Also, in my parallel more leisurely learning of Chinese, with a new lesson only here and there, the regilding of skills has been a daily positive feedback, helping reinforce the sense of consolidation and progress, even when learning at a slower space.. In both cases, regilding has been just the right amount of daily work. I DON'T want to have to think about where to practice or how much. This is what SRS is for. I DON'T want to have to do a large number of mindless repetitions for a skill to get a positive feedback signal. The regilding was perfect. I guess there is no going back for you, but you have a steep uphill now to ensure to regain my trust and keep me as a paying user. My advice: Focus on the Practice button and make sure that it can drive all progress in an SRS manner after having taken a lesson for the first time. Make it introduce more advanced material automatically, as seems appropriate. Perhaps Duolingo can get out of this trough of despair and be good again. Perhaps better. Please read this.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kimiboru

My thoughts exactly. I really liked using the practice feature and the decaying to go back to topics from time and again, especially when I get some words which I don't remember. But now if everything stays static and the practice button has no visible effect, then what's the point? (At least that's how I understand the new system.)

I've been doing the German tree for years, and actually it has been a bit of a hassle as I get most of the stuff correct anyway. But preventing skills from decaying and getting back to old words felt like useful. Why would I want to keep practising German now? I will just focus on Chinese or something daily and only do new topics, plus one or two German practices in a week. And I don't like the sound of that. Sure, I could decide to just practice more by default, because I want to better my language skills, bla, bla. But then I would just grab a language book and/or use memrise. Where's the game in that?

I still love you Duo. But please motivate me to practice more German! Pretty please!

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zekecoma

You're finally getting rid of the stupid fluency meter? About time.

NOTE: I am not attacking, just really genuinely curious.

I don't really see the point of this feature to be honest. Just seems like a waste of effort, when you have the users who really don't care about language learning will continue to use the mobile and not get more crowns, while the serious ones will continue to use the desktop and get more crowns. In the end, they're really just going to use it the same way before the crowns came. Seems pretty pointless, if you think about it.

At the end of the day, the easier you make it, the less the end user is going to retained any information from Duolingo.

The mobile app is dumbed down with just multiple choice and putting the words in order. Multiple choice gives it away too easily because all you gotta do is look for the most obvious problem and get it right. Fridge magnets is easy to figure out due to the capitalisation of the beginning and the punctuation.

Last but not least, you removed the dual translation. I guess, this was planned to keep the user on the site longer, by forcing them to use the reverse tree? Without having the ability to do dual translation between base and target, you removed the ability to recall and actually think on using the language. Are you at least bringing this feature back when you get the full crown set?

I wish y'all would stop breaking what isn't broken. Every major update to the site seems to keep making it worse and worse.

Examples, mobile app is so dumbed down that it's too simple to benefit from it. You removed the dual translation. Now, what made the site better than the mobile, is now being replaced with crowns, and now you don't know when to improve on a specific skill using practice. You just gotta do it until you feel like not doing it for the day.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thebenoch

"I wish y'all would stop breaking what isn't broken. Every major update to the site seems to keep making it worse and worse."

Agreed 100%. With every ridiculous adjustment, I feel like they are daring me to quit using this program. I think they're angling to make a profit, and the language-learning bit is becoming more and more of a simple gimmick to get people in the door.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lexbroch

I so agree with this!!

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lrtward

The mobile app is dumbed down with just multiple choice and putting the words in order.

Do you have your mic and speakers enabled? On my Android device, at the lower levels I get a lot of word bank and similarly easy exercises. By crown level 5, though, the multiple choice options are not as obvious, and I'm asked to type what I hear and repeat the phrase quite a bit. I also translate into the target language more at higher crown levels.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mereade

I agree with zekecoma, that the app is too dumbed down, I don't use it anymore despite it being seemingly more practical (using Duolingo just on the go and putting the learning time at home into more serious activities).

Listening and speaking exercises are a bad idea and no fix, as they remove the most positive aspect of the mobile app: being practical on the go. A mobile app is for the empty moments in a train, on a bus, while standing in a queue, or during a boring lecture. And those are all situations in which I definitely don't want to make noises with any app.

It is great to hear there should be more difficult exercises overall, and I'll need to have a look at the crown system first before giving any feedback (I am still in the old system), but the noise based exercises shouldn't be a central part of the higher levels.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MasterYods

You can remove the listening and speaking excercises on the app. It's under profile settings, which you can access under clubs, for some reason.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mereade

OK, but then what is left in the levels 4 and 5, as Lrtward mentions the listening based exercises as the main content of the upper levels? Is there enough content even without that?

March 31, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lizsue

Yes, I already turned off the listening and speaking exercises and turned off the "sound effects" option but the iOS app version still speaks the the Spanish sentence out loud for the typing and word bank exercises when it gives me a Spanish sentence to type into English (well, for Spanish for English speakers - it speaks the English out loud for English for Spanish speakers). How can I turn that sound off?

So far it's been impossible to completely mute the Duolingo app without completely muting the entire phone including the rings to let me know I have an incoming call (I'd really rather not have to switch back and forth between dialtones and vibrate just to use an app).

Fortunately, I can still go to duolingo.com on the web browser on my phone instead of using the app, but then I don't get any other app features.

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/davidcwalls

In addition to MasterYods comments (turning off listening or speaking exercises permanently), there is a link on all listening and speaking exercises that lets you turn off that kind of exercise for an hour. I find this works nicely when I am on a train, but also lets me do those exercises when I'm in an appropriate environment.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hermesianax

What do you mean with "dual translation"? Isn't translation always dual, as you translate from one language to another? And I thought the idea behind the skill levels was to offer more translation to the target language, so isn't that exactly what you want?

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zekecoma

Dual translation: for example Translation English sentence into German, and German sentence into English.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hermesianax

But that would mean there's a discrepancy between your experience and what DuoLingo has been claiming about more translation to the target language. This would simply not make any sense, as this has been a central part of the reason for DL to overhaul the system. So in your experience, there isn't any translation into the target language, am I correct in understanding that?

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daffodil2015

@Hermesianax - So I just "reached the maximum level" in participles in Spanish (from CL3) - the lessons are exactly the same for both CL3 and CL4. Same participles (about eight of them), same phrases. No new content, very little translation in the target language. Duo's claims are not standing up to scrutiny, unfortunately.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klgregonis

The translation to or from the target language seems to depend on the language being learned. I'm working on Welsh now, and it seems to be really well balanced. I always have a fair number of translations to the target language. And from the language is important, to insure you understand the target language.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

What's dual translation? What will we lose with crowns?

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ding1dong123

We wont, it's just in higher skill levels.

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zekecoma

Dual translation: for example Translation English sentence into German, and German sentence into English.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dasi_

Have to agree. This is everything I wanted to say and more. Using mobile is practically useless now and that’s the most annoying part of it. Practice on the site has always been better but mobile was useful however now use my iPad to go to the full site and don’t even bother with the app. Gets annoying with the iPad asking would I rather open the app...No iPad. No I would not.

July 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klastiron

I miss being able to see words in each lesson.

We can consider bringing it back in some form, but right now we think investing in better ways to see and practice words makes more sense.

Ouch, that will be the main thing that I will dislike about the change. Before I begin each new lesson, I write down the words from the new section and look them up in the dictionary. I then write the gender if the word is a noun, and also write the plural form of the noun. I then write the translation(s) of the word next to that. It's how I've been using Duolingo for over the past 4 years.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ken372110

Me too, not being able to revisit the word list is very very bad.

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sparkleimp

I haven't been using Duolingo for very long at all, but yeah, that does seem like a very foolish change on behalf of Duolingo's part. I hope that option comes back some time.

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marninger

I have been a big fan of D.L. for several years, primarily using the desktop interface to study Italian, - but this new greatly improved version has made me dispare.

I understand that you are only trying to improve and make D.L. more effective and fun. And I do not miss the skill level, - it really was pretty useless anyhow. I can also understand and sympathise with that you have hidden the "Tips & tricks" behind a symbol, - to make the interface less cluttered .

I also think Crown Levels as such is a very good Idea, - but why force them on users? And why take away the possibility for users to go back and repeat lessons until they themselves feel they are ready to try another crown level? I think this is a very contra productive change.

But then again perhaps it is just me, - I am old and slow and I do need to repeat each lesson several times to make them stick. But as D.L. is working now at least for me it is very much harder to improve my language skills.

In fact it is so hard I started to look for other ways to do it . . .

But I like D.L. and therefore suggest:

  1. You reintroduce the possibility for users to go back and repeat lessons, - at least on ther current Crown Level

  2. You introduce the the possibility for user themselves to decide when to try for a new crown level.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hermesianax

but why force them on users? And why take away the possibility for users to go back and repeat lessons until they themselves feel they are ready to try another crown level?

I think because DL wants to motivate users to actually move forward in learning a language. Repeating basics 1 ten times is not progress.

Please do not take this as disrespect and I can understand that your old age might make learning a language a bit slower, but don't you think you're also underestimating your own abilities? The impression I get is that DL wants to encourage people to push their limits.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

Repeating basics 1 ten times is not progress.

Yes, this may be true for basics (at least when you practiced a language for 1-1,5 years), but not for other skills, e.g more difficult grammar skills / tenses in the 2nd half / last quarter in your tree.


Repeating:

You IMHO need to have a 3rd party flashcard spaced repetition SR application like Memrise, AnkiSRS, SuperMemo,... anyways:

  • SR software never had the aim to repeat multiple times in a short time-line the older stuff which you already know and (actively) learned a longer time before.

  • It's focus was to repeat words (phrases/sentences) BEFORE you might have forgotten them according to your "forgetting curve".

  • Or to revisit words / NEWLY learned content you were exposed just 4h / 12h / 1d / 6d (Memrise) / 1d++ (AnkiSRS) before in short-term.

April 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Danmoller

Well...

Taking care of the bugs and maintenance of two systems require double effort.

This is probably the main reason to keep only one: the best according to their metrics.

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solipsism5

You don't need to keep the old system. You just need to add on to the new one to keep the decay system alive (as well as vocabulary lists, timed practices, etc.). You won't lose people that way. Duo is definitely at risk of doing that.

I will be looking at another company myself and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I hope people at Duo will reconsider what they've done.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/virtualgems

Duolingo French: I have been on the new system for about 5-6 days. I thought you were going to make things better. Instead, I spent the weekend going through the levels for the first Button, "Basics". There are 10 "testing chapters" within each level. Unfortunately, they do not get progressively more difficult and they do not include additional material. It is the same material over and over and over again. 10 x 5 = 50 times. I am bored out of my mind. All I have now is the number of crowns. I miss the fluency level. That at least had SOME meaning, and inspired me to work harder. BTW, I am not a newbie. I had about 270 streak days before I went to France, and now have another 109. The reason that people are spending more time in Duolingo is that they are desperate to get back to where they were before your took all the evidence of our progress away from us. I spent the weekend doing the same mind numbingly boring lessons over and over and over. I finally gave it up on level 4 x 3-4 times through, and still have not a single "Gold" button. Although I spent a lot more time in Duolingo since you introduced the crown system, I can assure that I am fed up and have basically learned nothing since the switch over. Fix this and do it now. I will be doing everything in my power to get back to the original system. I want my fluency level back and I want to be able to see real indicators of my progress. If I can't get back to the original system, I will find another language program.

April 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bahalam

They don't have anything new to offer and they expect us to go through the old things over and over.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/savemyscript

I definitely miss the ability to choose the lessons I want, and to test out of skills. I'd completed my French tree, and then new lessons got added, and it's really annoying that crowns won't let me test out of things I know.

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fexomat

I thought the crowns update sounded good until I just received the update and can no longer test out of individual lessons. Now lessons that I basically know beforehand are really annoying and take too much time

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SanDigital

I miss the test out the most. For Japanese, it's all new to me, so I don't notice it. But, in French, I'm at a more advanced level and the test out feature was a perfect way to practice without the tedium or redoing every basic detail

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

Exactly! I think that this is the worst problem! By being able to test out you could quickly move through the stuff that was easy for you! Now I am bored by having to complete so much boring content!

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheoDuke

Hello, my duolingo was recently updated and I went from having a fully gold tree to now the 'basics' skill among other simple skills now showing 0/2 lessons completed. This has resulted in me spending time uselessly completing skills when I am not benefitting at all. Is this an intended part of the new update?

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisaskier

Me too, it's really frustrating isn't it?
I am not a fan of needless updates that ruin previously perfect apps/systems etc.

:[

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/coto.i
  • 1606

Are there conjugation tables inside the lessons?

With the launch of the Crowns, I understand that we are forced to start our trees more or less from the beginning. What a better moment to bring the conjugation tables back into the lessons? That is bringing them right where we need them, and when we need them - and by this I mean not after tens of seconds or maybe minutes of searching through the Words tab or elsewhere. This was a great feature, and many users appreciated it. More details here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/25601938.

So, as we are to repeat even the most basic stuff, what a better thing to do than to use the occasion to fix the conjugation patterns into the memory?

Please bring back the CONJUGATE button when hovering over the verbs! Thank you!

And thank you for all your great work! I don't have the Crowns yet, but my intuition tells me that I'll like it.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

www.lingvist.com has a pretty cool feature for both the web portal + Android app where you can view the conjunction tables and several grammar explanations / tips in a 2nd "panel hint dialog" which auto-scrolls in from the bottom of the screen.

You can click on an arrow of the dialog (top right corner) and then it will fade out to the bottom of the screen and hide.

In the middle screen is the "translation panel" with the sentence in the target language and the "fill in the blank" space.

I pretty much liked the DuoLIngo "tips and notes" on my EN-PT tree on the web portal, and I also found the conjunction tables from the old Scala 2016 web portal useful.

But somehow I am definitely missing a cool addon hint / text explanation panel which fades in and out from the bottom of the screen....or where you can press the KEY-UP hotkey.

Sorry, I am not an English native speaker.
I can hardly explain in EN how cool Lingvist's feature actually is....you have to see it!

I definitely would like to have BOTH on Duo.
Please don't remove the longer "tips and notes" and tables from the skills!

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/coto.i
  • 1606

I finished the French course on Lingvist when it was still free. I liked it a lot. They only show the conjugation tables if you fail the verb. Otherwise not. This is what I don't like because failing on purpose to see the tables will influence the SRS, just like failing for real.

On Duo we had the option to view the tables anytime during the exercises. It was very well thought!

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

Hi Coto.i,

Quote: I finished the French course on Lingvist when it was still free. I liked it a lot. They only show the conjugation tables if you fail the verb. Otherwise not. This is what I don't like because failing on purpose to see the tables will influence the SRS, just like failing for real.

The good thing is, that the Lingvist French has ~5000 words.
Lingvist Spanish has only ~3800 right now, until they are adding the rest of the words in bulks (I learned 1000 Spanish words in 11 days and 20 hours with my "end of 2017 year challenge").
I liked Lingvist's superb crystal clear Spanish audio compared to DuoLingo TTS.
It is very sad that they did this 3000 words cut for "Lingvist Free" in 2018; they seem to completely ignore my thread in their forum :(

Just to let you know:

  • I received an e-mail from Lingvist asking about a detail feedback in a web form https://lingvist.typeform.com/to/fXp1A9 (12 questions) as they found me on their forum. Did you too?

  • I have added your concern about the Lingvist tip / grammar table and requested, that we can always blend it in and out with hardware hotkeys, even before giving an answer or afterwards to review the question before.

  • I tried to explain in the feedback form https://lingvist.typeform.com/to/fXp1A9 what you told me above. I had re-tested your issue, can confirm it and hope we will see an improvement over time.

  • The good thing about Lingvist is IMHO that their developers are hanging around the forums and it is easier to get in direct contact with them. You get instant feeback most of the time. So there is a little hope :-)

  • With my 2017 Spanish challenge I was not able to read those tips/grammar notes in more detail anyways, because I was constantly fighting against the clock and the quick refill (even after short break of 45-90 minutes) of my "repeat practice stack", just to push their system and get over the 20/50 NEW (goal 100-150 words/day) words limit. Quite hard to do so if you learn a language from scratch.

On Duo we had the option to view the tables anytime during the exercises. It was very well thought!

Reminds me somehow about my Mondly tree for Portuguese (BR) where I can see those conjugation tables incl. multiple tenses :-)

Definitely very helpful!
I hope they bring them back to DuoLingo. But there are so many things todo / to fix with higher priority than this....

I am doing Mondly and my two DuoLingo PT-DE and PT-EN reverse trees right now in parallel.

April 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/victorsb118

I would like to say that this change just throw away all my motivation to continue with duolingo, all the method that we applied until know is completely messed up. I have to start the course from the very beginning after a year of hard work. What is the point?

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

I feel the same!

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/graham891494

What have you just done to my beloved favourite app? I had a 122 day streak and was well advanced (65%) in French, and all of a sudden all my progress has vanished. All the visual psychological satisfaction I got from seeing lessons go gold and my % top up - gone. Just like that, no options, no ask - just gone. The new interface looks horrible, it's confusing and too busy. But more importantly I have no visual cues of progress to drive my learning.

Sorry, but statements like "Oh we're thinking about how to do that again" just mean that you haven't thought through how your app is used.or done any user research or proper UX design before you made some arbitrary change that nobody was asking for.

I can't believe I gave you guys money for a lifetime subscription, thinking I'd found my perfect app. Can I have a refund please? You've abused my custom and trust.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sedlacek_m

Man, I would be PISSED if I’d paid for the app

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bahalam

Actually I have paid with TIME!!!

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/graham891494

Also - no help, no guidance on what it all means. Just "hey, here's crowns, get on with it". Any change where I have to go Googling to find out what on earth it's about is a badly managed and implemented change.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pete561205

I totally sympathise - I just completed a 365 day streak today but won't be using the app again as long as the stupid crown system remains.

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MasterYods

Thanks for the information. I get the reasoning behind the update to the crowns system, and in general is works really well. But although I know that practice is important to learn a language, it was my decaying golden tree that motivated me to actually practice, and we've lost this. And since the general practice button doesn't have any effect on the tree anymore that is not exately motivating either.

Also there really needs to be some kind of summary showing the words / topic covered by a skill so you can make in informed decision on what you're spending your time working on.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aanaaaa

So, I will probrably leave Duolingo, it does not make sense to me without timed practice, no way to me to get level 5 starting from level 3 in all my trees, look at my numbers, I should go straight to level 5 in most of my trees. It is not fair!

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bahalam

you should

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

Exactly!

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kenmerk

You won't be alone. I'm sorry that this has happened. It's stupid. I'm leaving too.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bahalam

I'm not satisfied with the progress loss. It's been nearly 5 years since I started the Spanish tree. I have finished the tree from the start to end lesson by lesson 2 times. Then 2 reviews for all the skills. I have had all the skills Golden for months and months. I've passed lvl. 25. How is this possible? I was going to put my focus on other languages. Not facing with the sameeeee content again and again and again (Cause I know it takes a looonggg time to get to golden state once more due to the stupid ascending number of lessons each CR lvl.) This is not fair evaluation. There aren't any harder question Duolingo can throw at me in Spanish seriously. Not before a major database update. I've had it all. I tried to go the path to level 4 but the questions were so easy. I must be level 5 in most and 4 in some. Please fix this :( You can't state that a student is level 3 in a skill, while he has answered all the questions and there aren't any new or harder ones. . EDIT: I fixed. I switched into the old version. But if this is really going to be an obligation for everyone, please make it just. GOOD THING: The only good thing happened here is the non-decaying skills. I had to refresh the lesson that said I am a man. You are a boy. once a month! We don't need this. Keep the algorithm that detects forgotten words but improve it. Keep the strengthening thing. Anyone who honestly wants to actually ''Learn" a language, will pay a visit to it, every day. . 2nd EDIT: Soon you can't even do that senseless repetition. Health is being graduated from A/B testing and will join the party to make that absolutely IMPOSSIBLE. . 3rd EDIT: Now it is an obligation. What a failure... What a disaster... Unbelievably discouraging system. An unending agonising bombardment with a lot of easy, silly, repetitive questions, soon to be accompanied with Health. I'm close to lose all my motivation regarding this platform, unless they take action and fix this madness. Do it if you don't wanna see some your most loyal users gone... We should HAVE the option and freedom to choose the system we desire. Give us that and be our favourite learning app once again.

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CourtnyLR

One thing I have noticed is that there seems to be a lot of die-hard perfectionists on here (and yes, I am one of them). May I respectfully suggest that if you have gone through the tree twice and don't feel you are learning anything doing more lessons with the crown version, then simply don't. Be satisfied that you finished the tree and move on to something else.

April 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bahalam

But I would go there for reviews every once in a while and I see my colourful tree, what was golden once. Come on! They have made an update which comes with various problems (In fact it was an unexpected disaster). We are here to give our feedback and then live in hope. "Ignore the update" is not a logical answer but a last option. Maybe not even that...

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheHolyV

Wow, I was forced to update to crows today and I can say that I just HATE it. Sorry folks, but it does make me not want to use Duolingo anymore. You cannot just groom me for 175 days straight (my longest run to date) and without ANY warning, turn my almost entirely gold tree (I was so close to that all tree gold star) and essentially make me restart from the beginning... It's not conducive to retaining people like me who have already learned all that Duolingo could teach and are now just there to make sure that knowledge is kept fresh. Overall the switch was REALLY poorly managed: it detracts from the learning paths people were already on, to maybe favour new customers, but that is poor towards your existing loyal followers... I spare you the litany of my work experience in IT to make my point stronger. Suffice to say that switching to crowns was a really awful experience.

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sedlacek_m

AGREED! Before I was motivated to learn, now I'm not - and even if I was, there are so many issues and bugs with the news setup that I'd immediately get annoyed and drop it. I'm thinking DL are going to lose a lot of users with this move..

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solipsism5

Very true. This can not have gone through any serious A/B testing. If it did the data was totally misinterpreted. I imagine someone thought they were going to keep people longer, watching their ads, but they are sacrificing all their loyal subscribers who've spent hundreds of days completing courses. I can't imagine they've made a good financial decision here. Even new users are not going to stay on here because they've made the game boring. I'm probably going elsewhere. I've never seen a company totally implode like this. Yes, people make changes to apps, but do they totally get rid of all the best features? In one blow they got rid of timed repitition (decay), vocabulary lists, and timed practice. I didn't like the fluency meter but at least it made some people feel good about the progress they were making. What the heck is Duo doing? I'm finding it hard to imagine what else they could have done to make things worse - perhaps get rid of daily streaks, and the lingot store? I'm sure someone is working on it right now. This is very disappointing. I hope they can make a come back but am very skeptical.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/provolik

You wanna improve the system for a better teaching and that's okay. But for me it's like I was at high school and coming back to children class: I have to redo all those boring levels writing 'a boy', 'a girl', 'I am a boy', 'she is a girl', for nine times for a level. After reaching level 5 in 'I am a boy', I will have to reach level 5 in 'The duck is white', and after that another level 5 in 'the pen is on the table'. I don't want to downgrade, but at least a better upgrade.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/knullarfra

Well said!

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larkspire

Do I read correctly that I'll now have to jump through at least two non-test-out-able hoops for every single skill on the German tree just to get exercises which are actually an appropriate "difficulty" for me (writing in my target language) again? My engagement with German on Duo - outside of Stories - has been lagging because these exercises were already too few and far between, whereas Duo had previously been a good "support"/side activity even though I've moved on to other sources for the primary source of my German learning. Combined with Mango's thus far superior structure to its Spanish course, having to do even more "Pick the translation for 'Mother': (two adjectives, a verb, and Mutter)" to "prove" I know how to use it in a sentence will be the end of my Duo use, I think.

edit: Turns out it's 12 to 24 hoops per skill! That's it for my German on Duo then, and I'm having very strong second thoughts about Spanish.

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aanaaaa

I have another account , so I was with 1 crown and had to make the lesson 6 times to get my second crown and then to complete 3 crowns I have to do it 9 times :D :D , no way, I will not do it!

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Archy864245

Everyone uses duolingo to learn in a way that suits them and a forced change like this disrupts that. I personally have been working my way through a section of the skill tree and then going back to make everything gold once I'm done. When all is gold i allow myself to start the next section of the tree. This change has completely uprooted my style of learning and the removal of gold skills has removed my base for knowing when I am ready to start the next section. The crown level is arbitrary and means nothing as there is no scale for what a good amount of crowns to have is and so there is no feeling of progression. And after all this the changes are being forced onto us with no option to revert back to the better system which destroyed all motivation I had for using your service.

Also your site doesn't have an easy to find contact email to give feedback so we're forced to post on public forums where peoples opinions can be buried and never get the response from DuoLingo they want. Pretty unhappy to say the least.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bernardo592458

Totally agree on all points. The practice mode seems to be randomly selected lessons. Not good for my routine either. They are most likely trying to increase the paid membership numbers.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SkeletalRoses

Yeah, no, you guys really screwed the pooch on this one.

Nothing about this change is an upgrade. The higher crown levels would have been a cool feature if they actually offered new, more advanced content for more serious learners---I'd have been all over that---but they don't. There's no additional content; just more repetition. Some people benefit from that level of repetition, but they could choose to do that themselves by repeating lessons as needed. For those of us who don't need as much repetition, the run-throughs are tedious, boring, and feel like a serious dumbing-down. Fluency was wildly inaccurate but it wasn't hindering anything. We're not losing anything with it gone, but just getting rid of a neutral feature doesn't count as an upgrade.

Everything else about this is an unequivocal downgrade. The crown system as it exists is demotivating. I'm personally particularly teed off by the loss of the decay and review recommendations. Like, I'm baffled as to why you thought that was a good idea. You actually seem to acknowledge that it's not, but you...did it anyway? Because...?

Honestly, that seems to be a running theme with this new system. You're preemptively trying to defend all these issues with it, because you know they're issues and people will have problems with them, but you rolled this all out anyway. Foisting a system that you know is broken on people who had no idea it was coming (hi!). At best, the update wasn't ready. At worst, it's just bad across the board.

The system you had going was great. I don't exactly want to say "leave well enough alone," because we don't want you to stagnate and continued improvements are good (such as the recent update to the French tree), but maybe you should survey your base and find out what kinds of changes we want. And which ones we don't.

Please put the old system back. At the very least, let us opt out of this update and don't roll it out again until you've polished it and made something that's not. F***ing. Broken.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kenmerk

Outstandingly written and I completely agree.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luke.Crowe

Hello,

So I have now used this new crown system and my concerns are confirmed. This is not about us learning language, this is about Duolingo and their business model. This whole change was clearly designed, as stated by Karint in a previous post about Crowns "Students are doing more sessions, sticking around for longer, and doing harder types of exercises" - this was not about language - this is about keeping eyeballs in the system longer so more ads can be put in front of them - why else would practice sessions no longer build skills - practice restored health, and levelled up - now they want to take that incentive away, so you are more likely to watch an add to restore health - cha-ching Duolingo bank account!!!

So there is no doubt some benefit to Crowns - but there is clear motive in the design changes that prove that duolingo no longer cares about users, like facebook, it has a sole purpose to monetise the user base.

Issues I see:

1) Also, WHERE are the Bots?!?! Why did this feature have to go? One of the issues with Duolingo is that it is not spoken language skills - and that is NOT learning a language. The bots were at least an attempt to encourage you to use spoken language skills - and in a simulated "flowing discussion" that also encouraged you to use your knowledge as it developed to add additional words and phrases you may know - unlike the "speak these words" function in the lessons - which are "parrot" learning - just repeating what you have heard/read exactly - that isn't an owl (knowledge) that is quite literally a dumb parrot that has no knowledge of the language - just mimicking the sounds. The bots allowed you to apply knowledge beyond just repeating back sounds.

Call me a cynic - but based on recent behaviour - no doubt the bot feature will become a "paid" feature in the future - either through gems/lingots (meaning you need to watch ads galore to earn enough to use the feature - or buy the lingots/gems outright) or only on DuoLingo Pro subscription

2) The lack of decay function is against ALL principles of learning - especially language learning. It is well established that we need to continue use knowledge to retain and master it. Hell, Duolingo literally told us that when it would "decay" a skill and ask us to practice again - brains aren't perfect. I have just levelled up to a 5 crown in Basics 1 of Spanish - firstly it was not that more difficult - just so repetitive - AND it did not even insist on getting "accents" on letter correct, or even only letting you get the 5 crown level when you go 100% - with no errors in the first attempt of each question. That means I know I have not obtained anywhere NEAR mastery of even these basics, yet I now have NOW opportunity to go back and practice. In fact there is one aspect I know I am struggling with and without the ability to go back to a specific lesson to practice - or see the words in advance, this is now useless.

3) You cannot go back to a specific lesson or see the words of the lesson in advance. This is a massive step backwards. Why is a more important question? In what way did the move to Crowns REQUIRE these changes? As I mentioned, the crown system itself is not an issue it is actually the implementation that Duolingo has made - which is why I feel this is more about money. You could have moved to a Crown system AND still let people see the relevant words before each lesson - Why do you need to remove them? You could also have the crown system AND allow people to go back to a specific lesson and practice - again all technically possible, yet removed - so you are more likely to run out of health and have to watch ads.

4) I spent gems/lingots on the "idioms" and "flirting" bonus skills - these are no missing from the app - WHY? Again, why the need to remove these features (like bots, ability to return to lessons, seeing the word list, the bonus skills), to do the Crown system?

I do not care that my tree is not gold - of course it was slightly demotivating at first, but I am intelligent enough to be motivated by the fact that for every skill I have a "1" or more, then essentially that is the new "gold tree". It took me a few minutes to get over that.

So all up - and I really hope SOMEONE from Duolingo reads this (@karint at least) - The issue is NOT Crowns per se - it is the way you have done them.

You could have got ALL the benefits you mention - more time in app, more sessions - more ad revenue for Duolingo - WITHOUT taking away useful features and value for users. This is what is clearly generating some of the most consistent and vehement HATE towards Duolingo I have ever seen. You have made this change for your benefit - OK - fair call, you provide a service to us, you deserve to make some coin for it, BUT you could have done that for you, without TAKING value away from your user base!!!!

Keep crowns - make us spend more time doing sessions for longer - for your benefit. but put back:

1) Decay 2) Bots 3) Ability to see the word lists for each lesson 4) Ability to go back to specific lessons 5) Bonus skills back in app (though they weren't that great - or worth the gems/lingots - so not a big issue)

You would eliminate 80% of the hate generated from this change overnight with addressing #1 and # 4. The people complaining about their "golden tree" are just not yet seeing the fact that a skill with a single crown is the same as a "gold" skill - whatever!!

Finally, to let you know. My family, friends and colleagues at work would joke about how much of a PROMOTOR of Duolingo I have been. I would tell anyone about it, how good it was, and why they should join. I got my brother to get my 2 nieces and nephew to start learning 2nd languages using your service. I even started the team I manage at work on using the service as a team bonding exercise.

I have to say, based on the issues I raised above, I would NOT recommend Duolingo to anyone at all right now, even new language learners. It is clear you have lost sight of finding the right balance between your users needs and your needs to make money, and I would not want to lose my reputation recommending your service to someone, as you may destroy the service even more in your desperation to make money.

Again, I have no issue with you making money, just don't remove value from your system for your current users that have put you in a position to be able to make that money from advertisers.

Cheers,

Luke

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LauraTheBlondie

Not really. The skill can become actually golden when you reach specific number of crowns, hence 1 crown definitely does not make the skill "golden".

April 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hubinou

A few months ago, I suggested a new way to measure progress.

Duolingo already has several tools for measuring our progression when we are learning a language :

  • number of XP
  • level (related to number of XP)
  • skills (golden or not)
  • fluency % for some languages and now, crowns

However, it lacks a single metric ranging from 0% when we start a completely new tree to 100% when we finish the tree and it is all golden.

Of course, a single ratio could make it :

measure = [nbr of skills completed] / [total nbr of skills]

But since all skills do not contain the same number of lessons, this measure would be biased. So, let's change the measure :

measure = [Nbr of lessons completed] / [total nbr of lessons in all skills]

But skills already accomplished fade with time and get a ponderation decreasing from 5/5 when freshly finished to 0/5 when forgotten. So, what I suggest as measure is :

measure = { Sum ( [Nbr of lessons in skills completed] x [ponderation of the skill] ) + [Nbr lessons completed in uncompleted skills] } / [total nbr of lessons in all skills]

Let's give a little example for illustration purpose. Imagine a language with 5 skills, and the situation of the learner :

  • skill 1 : 3 lessons, all finished, ponderation 5/5 => 3 * 5/5 = 3 pt
  • skill 2 : 5 lessons, all finished, ponderation 3/5 => 5 * 3/5 = 3 pt
  • skill 3 : 3 lessons, all finished, ponderation 4/5 => 3 * 4/5 = 2.4 pt
  • skill 4 : 4 lessons, 1 finished, 3 to do => 1 pt
  • skill 5 : 5 lessons, still to be done => 0 pt

Measure :

  • Total accomplished : 9.4 pt
  • Maximum : 20 pt
  • Measure : 9.4 / 20 = 47%

This would indeed start at 0% when starting a completely new tree to 100% when the tree is finished and all golden.

It will also decay with time if the tree is abandonned and it will put the emphasis on keeping the skills with many lessons golden.

What do you think about it ?

March 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

It would be nice to have system that showed how much you actually knew, compared to how many points you have earnt. You can know something well and finish fast or not know it and take a long time and you will have less XP when you knew it well than when you had to learn it. Xp is your level of hard work, it does not reflect your knowledge.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Izim_M
  • 1545

This seems to be a mix of fluency and the visual representation of your tree in the old system. Fluency probably works similarly but takes much more into account, while the visual representation of the tree would show you how many skills you've completed and how high your strength in each of them is.

I suppose this method would be good, as it allows people to know why they're not at 100% and what they should do to reach it (unlike fluency, which seems to be the reason why they'll remove fluency). On the other hand it sort of converts the visual representation we used to have in the old system to a single number. This could be good cause as the OP mentioned, the quick visual interpretation of your tree to see how well you're doing might be gone in the new system.

I don't understand one thing though. You said the percentage would decay over time if you don't practise, but how would that work? The OP said that once you get your crowns, you never lose them, right?

If this means the percentage would never decay, perhaps this wouldn't be motivating enough for people to continue learning once they've reached 100%. But then again, that might happen either way if they reached all crowns, it just shouldn't have to be pointed out like that that they practically completed Duolingo.

Either way I wouldn't use this to replace the level system which goes up to 25, people (including me) are too attached to that. It may be a nice addition though.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

I've often thought that a more tree-specific version of the fluency meter would be great, and this seems like it would work well.

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FsqBrDe

This is how I feel with Crowns System:

Me: Wow, this is a complicated structure. Let me practice it again before I go to the next one.

Duo: No. Move on.

Me: ... but I like to repeat what I just read to try to understand how this structure works.

Duo: MOVE. ON. Or use another source that is not Duolingo.

And so I move on, not because I feel confident, but because I have no option, if I ever want to practice the structure again in the future.

I'm frustrated for not being able to use my own pace to learn, to repeat the exercise I'm in doubt, and review what I saw before learning something new, just like I could do with a book.

I wonder if I ever have to take a break in the middle of a skill, and when I decide to go back after a month, I will have to learn other new stuff before I can catch up with what I had read before. This could be quite inconvenient.

April 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joanna104313

With the crown system I can't go back into a lesson to practice it. There is no way I can pick up the content from a lesson in a single go. In some cases I now have to go through several lessons repeatedly to practice the same sentences. I am getting more confused and will probably end up leaving this system. I was really enjoying this and for the first time in years I have actually been able to learn some of a new language. I am very disheartened.

April 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wesley275034

I was a paying customer, but this update is psychologically devastating to my enjoyment of language learning. I went from having most of my tree complete and golden, to everything incomplete. If I were still interested in this app, I would have to practice simple words like "boy" and "apple" hundreds of times to reclaim the achievement that was taken from me. I have a ~500 day streak, but truly am struggling to force myself to use the new system to maintain it.

Beyond that, this system is a huge step backward for actual language learning. You clearly know that given the preemptive defenses in the post above: "We'll figure out a way to work spaced repetition in later!" "We agree it's impossible to figure out what you need to practice - we'll see if we can do something about that one day!" "We don't have decaying skills, because humans are automatons with perfect recall who never forget anything!" "We know change is tough, but you'll get used to all the ways that this is objectively worse for learning!"

Duolingo - please take a beat, read through these comments, read through the post above where you're pre-defending what you know is a broken system, and LISTEN TO YOUR USERS. Give folks an option to revert to the old system or fix the myriad obvious problems with the new system (especially the stripping of completion from all users, the lack of decaying skills, and the lack of spaced repetition). If you mess this up, you will absolutely lose members of your "great community" of ad-watchers and paying users that keep Duolingo afloat and language learning free for all.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

I absolutely agree!

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rushiil_R

The one regular thing I had in life was dedicating a certain amount of time everyday ,to keep all my language trees golden. It got to the point of an obsessive addiction . Now, that they've taken that away from me , I have nothing else to fill the vacuum left behind. There's no incentive for me to keep working . I've nothing to work towards. I have to start all over again with the same basic words and sentences. It's a huge waste of time and you get nothing out of it . You took a perfect thing and somehow made it into the abomination it is now. Did you really want to improve the learning experience or there's an inside ploy to make people stop using Duolingo . If the latter is the case , then you've done quite a good job. I quit .

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tranklements

Thank you very much, Karin, for writing responses to the many questions that had been collecting during the past few weeks. Lack of communication about the change was leading to some unexpected behaviours, such as people working out how to switch back to non-crowns, creating new accounts just to see crowns for themselves, and losing motivation because details of how the transition would be implemented and affect progress were not available. Keeping users well-informed about changes makes them feel valued!

If the completion of crown level 1 is equivalent to the former change from color to gold, then why not leave that transition in place from color to gold at level 1. Your casual learners have the satisfaction of of working through the tree and seeing a visible sign of completion and your hard-working more serious users who have been keeping their trees gilded would not be disappointed by the apparent set-back in status or bored by the repetition required for reaching level 5 in search of gold.

Or perhaps has level 1 become simpler than what was previously required to complete a skill?

Good riddance to the fluency score which was meaningless.

Agreed, no one is reporting the crown levels are too difficult.

Thank you for welcoming feedback both negative and positive and for demonstrating that you read carefully and take into consideration comments on the discussion board.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TinaMorris4

I wouldn't mind that at all. The outer ring around each skill could be a level-progress like it is now, but maybe they could turn the circle for the crowned task gold and perhaps address the Spaced Repetition issue by showing the gold circle like a tank that sometimes needs to be refilled so you can visually see when a skill needs a top-off.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daffodil2015

Can I report that the crown levels are too easy? :p Not to mention tedious, way too repetitive and pointless.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stusstrupp

Yesterday, I received the "crown" changes. While the "fluency" metric before the change sounded awkward, it never hurt much. Now, I find the following:

  • Accounting for loss of practice by decay: gone.
  • Thus, spaced repetition: gone.
  • If you start a language where you already have some knowledge: no testing out any more, so no fast reaching of your actual skill level.
  • Lesson words list: gone

If this was tested "successfully", I very much question the test method.

Yesterday, unsubscribed my from Plus.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AronFridrik

I want my totally golden tree back :(

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatNZ71

I hate crowns. I wish there was an option where I could go back to the old system. But I guess from the sound of it, I'm stuck with crowns. I don't feel like I'm making any progress and I have become very disheartened. At least with the older system it was way easier to see my progress. I know it's being worked on. So I hope it gets better. Till then, C'est la vie.

April 2, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Isabcomment

I really hate it. The lower levels are boring and repetitious. Toally unncessary busy work. Wish I could turn them off crowns. I may give up Duo lingo because of it, and now wish i had never gotten a plus membership.

In addition, I find it really annoying that you lose health if you make a mistake in the crown level basic reviews. There doesnt seem to be a way to gain health in a penalty free review.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elmanisero777

I really dislike the new crown system. Not because of the crowns, but more because of how the practice does not change the crown level. I was nearly 100% gold for the entire chinese tree, and now everything is at levels 2 or 3, with some level 1 sprinkled in. I would be completely fine with this if I could practice my way through it all, but instead I have to do the insanely tedious re-hashing of the tree. So instead of practicing complex sentence structures, I'm back at the very beginning practicing "hello" and "goodbye". Very frustrating as I have to decide whether I should abandon getting level 5 for all skills or just keep practicing as I had been. Hopefully you can revisit this in the future soon.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sh.rodz

SERIOUSLY, there needs to be a way to test out of those baby skills, I can't believe how many times I have to translate "He is a boy" just to get a golden (or level 5, whatever they call it) Basics 1 level.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

Yes please fix this. It's so boring and pointless!

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LICA98

I still don't understand what happens once you've got level 5 on all skills though if they never decay? do you just have to abandon the tree? - -

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lrtward

Once you've got to level 5 on all skills I'm not sure you could stomach much more of Duolingo. Level 5 takes a LOT of repetition. I think by level 5 through the entire tree and you'd be ready to move on to something new - a reverse tree, a new language, reading books, watching movies...

Of course there is always timed practice, which adds the challenge of speed plus spaced repetition (showing you your weakest words). So that's still an option.

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheHolyV

Ok, good to know... I am ready to leave DL now in that case.

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hermesianax

Any estimation how much lessons a full tree in the new crown system has and thus how much experience it would provide?

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWarr

So far as I can see, if there are N lessons in a Skill to get to 1 Crown, then there are subsequently N, 2N, 3N and 5N lessons to get to each successive Crown up to 5 Crowns. I haven't found a Skill any different to this yet. So in my case (Italian), I did 405 lessons to get 1 Crown in each Skill, so I will have to do 4860 lessons to get 5 Crowns in all 66 Skills. So that would be 48,600 XP.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larkspire

Getting to Level 2 on all skills up to the first checkpoint of the Spanish tree is getting to be about all I can stomach. I know the FAQ says that "casual" learners can ignore crowns, but I don't think I'm less dedicated for not wanting to repeat "su madre" for half of the 8 sentences per lesson x 6 lessons per crown level x 4 levels to go through = 96 times. Maybe if the lesson content wasn't so repetitive it'd be bearable, but with things as they are currently...

April 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dwduo

Great post, karint, thanks. It helps to know Duo's intentions, even if just to allow myself off the hook for trying obsessively for full gold right off the bat. The "extra dimension" thing is a good idea.

I must express however the importance of decay and SRS. SRS is obvious for learning, and it sounds like you're not tossing it out. But decay remains a motivator. Once the tree is full gold, motivation will go right off the cliff (for me, at least) if it stays that way forever. It's like playing an open ended sandbox game with no point -- good as it might be at first, eventually it gets old and you leave it behind.

One suggestion might be: rather than take away the levels or the gold, mark the node in some other way as "needing attention" (increasingly with neglect). A tarnishing medal? Cracked gold?

To my surprise, I do like the idea of 'spreading out' across the tree afterall, and I can see the logic in it. The repetition gets pretty old, unfortunately. Additional sentence structures are always a good thing.

Thanks for the info.

March 30, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheHolyV

I agree: if the tree is full gold and it stays that way, where is the motivation? Essentially, as duolingo is learning by gamification, you have completed the game, and as with any videogames, you would abandon it and take up something else...

April 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MasterYods

Agreed. The decaying skills are motivation to work on things that need work.
And tarnishing, cracking gold is quite a good visual metaphor.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/virtualgems

I was able to ditch the new Crowns and go back to the original Duolingo. If you force the rollout of the Crowns on everyone, I will be leaving for another program. I have loved Duolingo until now, and I would hate to leave, but I hate, loathe, and detest the Crowns. Using it for 5-6 days was miserable. Yes, I spent longer than I wanted to, but I discovered that you are only forcing us to do the same lessons over and over and over and over - 5 times! I learned absolutely nothing. Please give us a choice. I will not do the Crowns version.

April 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MasterYods

You don't HAVE to go to crown level 5, you can just carry on to the next skill if you want. That's the whole point.

April 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jenna85920

I hate the new system just because I had no time to do dutch for a while and then I came back to it and so I was reviewing each one, one topic at a time and so now I can't do it as a refresher because the health mechanic is now a part of the reviewing. I want some way to disable the health in the reviewing or just make a focused review thing.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/none4

I absolutely hate the changes you have made. Especially the fact that there was no option (take it or leave it). I absolutely hate the fact of being unable to see the words in my lessons and that I cannot choose which lesson to repeat at the particular time. Visually and mentally it is so non-transparent and dissuading. So dull. Yes, I miss my golden skills and fluency score too (no matter how inaccurate it actually was). The new concept ruined my motivation entirely and even made me feel depressed.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ciliolindemberg

I am not sure my comment is going to be as seen as the ones right below this topic, but perhaps I have a good point here...

You see, by reading some of these comments, what I noticed is something I'm used to see in my classrooms (I'm an English teacher). I see and understand everyone has his/her own way of learning a language. Some activities/methods work with some students, and others just don't. It's a fact. What can I do? I need to switch methods to reach all students. That's what I need to do.

So, considering the comments, I've seen that some users (like me) actually like and are motivated with the fluency option, whereas others don't like it or feel bad to see it's behaving inaccurately as to their level. So, I was wondering, why don't you turn Duolingo into the website/app every user has always wanted? I mean, why don't you show us your options/buttons/resources, all of them, and then let us decide which of them we want to see in our own accounts/apps? If we could choose what stay or what is out of our accounts, a possible solution could be found so that everyone here could feel satisfied...

It's a suggestion... What do you think? :)

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AureliaUK

The more advanced users have been asking for this flexible, pick-and-mix approach for at least 2 years so users can tailor the course to their own personal learning style. Yet every change has been to remove any remaining flexibility in how the user interacts with the course.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

Good idea!

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/prophecyte

Can't you at least make it optional? Please? I'm honestly crying and I'm not even exaggerating; Duolingo used to be my favourite app for languages but now it feels like everything I liked about it has been scrapped. I know our progress hasn't been deleted, but it certainly feels like it. I'd at least like an option to turn off the crowns system because I hate it so much.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vascotuga251

> learners using the app more

I only use the app when my PC is off or when I have significant knowledge of the language that I don't need to see the tips & notes.
The crown system won't do any better for me in that regard. If you guys want to increase the usage of the app then add "tips & notes".

March 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E.T.Gregor

Follow-up question to that: is Duolingo interested in actively moving users from the desktop website to the app? Why?

March 29, 2018

[deactivated user]

    To get more revenue through Health and ad impressions? That's why I use a VPN adblocker so that this trick wouldn't work on me.

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Callie69107

    It's had totally the opposite effect for me. I prefer the app as I usually use an iPad but I have had to switch to the web version because I've got no health. (I'm finding all the boring repetition is meaning lots of typos.) I also really liked the bot feature - particularly the speaking option.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sedlacek_m

    I just reset my entire progress in order to try the crown system from scratch. As I begun the basics 1 badge, I also leveled up in Phrases and Basics 2 - how come?? I thought I understood the new system after reading about it, but some things aren’t adding up to me.. Additionally, I’m missing the sense of accomplishment by going though each badge. Like being able to look at the different words and steps in each badge and once you were done there, you could easily see that you’d completed that particular badge. Now it seems a bit wishywashy with the crowns changing numbers randomly, and not being able to have a better look at how many steps/what steps you have yet to do in each skill. I’m not sure I’m wording myself correctly, but hopefully this makes sense to somebody else too?

    March 29, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carolin_o

    Under the old system (or maybe I had a B in an A/B test), if an early lesson had some overlap with another lesson (for instance, if you had to succeed in naming colors in order to succeed in the lesson about, e.g., food) you would get 1 pt of credit in the second lesson. It seems that that same feature

    March 30, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tawarochir

    Please let us turn the crowns feature off until you've actually finalized the feature! It's really frustrating that you've forced this feature I strongly dislike onto me without my consent. It's missing lots of useful features, gives me no incentive to practice daily, and overall adds nothing for me right now.

    I recognize that this feature presents good opportunities for learning, and I agree that it's a good idea--but please, don't force us to use a half-baked system like this!

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Posmond

    This is such rubbish! Nobody asked me if I wanted these changes. I am out of here!!!

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AllisonMac15

    I really want the "test out" option back. I practice Spanish a lot in my real life, with Spanish speaking family members, tv shows and podcasts. I like duolingo because I can build more technical grammar skills, but I often find that I am stuck trudging through lessons for stuff I already know. It's not challenging at all. I want to progress as fast on duolingo as I do in real life.

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fexomat

    I agree, now some lessons seem like a real waste of time whereas before one could simply test out of individual lessons.

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeelOfShame

    I would love it too. I think, at the very least, some easier way to do multiple lessons in a go rather than having to jump back out to the main tree and click back into lessons would be nice...

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

    I agree with you!

    April 11, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carolynn357728

    Try access on a PC. Test out came to my computer but not my tablet over the weekend. I was at level 5 and 4 on all skills after only a few hours.

    July 2, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWarr

    Is this on www.duolingo.com or www.duome.eu? I can only see it on the latter.

    July 2, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carolynn357728

    Hi Graham. For me the test-out ability is on duolingo.com I rarely use the duome version. When I click on a skill on a skill, an icon of a key appears. Click on that. When I had mostly level 3s there was also the light bulb icon in the same box, but now it seems gone. I wish navigating this system was less self-exploratory trial and error. It seems roll out of features is not universal.

    July 2, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWarr

    Scratch that. It's just appeared today on www.duolingo.com for me.

    July 4, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdamDurok

    What a terrible update! Now I can not repeat lessons I want. I really don't care about all the meters, xp, streak, I just know exactly what lesson I want to repeat. Now I can't!

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThisOldSpouse

    I am disappointed that I do not have the option to go back and review individual lessons within a chapter. I need to be able to take a group of new words and practice them several times to get them in long term memory before moving on to the next lesson. At least I have not been able to see how to review and practice a specific lesson before moving on to the next one. Am I missing something??

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/none4

    I have the same problem. And I'm utterly disappointed too.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnirbanDut3

    Exactly. This is the biggest disappointment with the new version. Before moving to a new chapter I always prefer to review past lessons individually to memorize words by practicing them again and again. Now with the new version Duolingo is providing harder task to review a chapter rather than the good old lessons!

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sedlacek_m

    I’m with you on that! And I’m not sure if it’s a bug or not, but my app skips actually teaching a bunch of words - they’re just thrown out there randomly with no translation

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianEllio16

    same

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mikeb102

    If you click on any skill circle and then the lightbulb in the bubble below it you can still go through all the lesson notes/tips. While you can't hit an individual lesson pack I've noticed it does run through the full gamut of topics so you haven't lost it. I agree it's a big switch though and I'm not sold on the approach either (yet).

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Xerofax

    Quite simply, I want the satisfaction of having my skills gold back. And getting level 2 in all my gold skills does not cut it, while repeating skills I already know for ever is a chore, nothing that is motivating. For repeating stuff we have a practice button, and it works quite well. You simply have, on the emotional level of learning and motivation, stolen from me.

    The gold stars may have just been flimsy paper gold stars like the ones used be elementary school teachers, by another name, but having 1 of those being the maximum, then introducing a new system and not giving everyone who already "maxed" out the new maximum is simply watering down or stealing the feeling of progress people made in the past. It might not hit people who start today, but for everyone who already has done more than 5 lessons, it's simply being sent back to first grade, with no reason given and no way to climb back to the grade you belong to besides crawling through the whole year at normal pace. This is neither logical nor fair for any users who started before crowns where a thing.

    April 6, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ava12556

    I agree with you. This whole crown thing just makes me want to delete the app and find another app that doesn't regress my progress. It's ridiculous. I am not recommending this app.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DodoJarmann

    To me Crowns seems counterproductive. When going back and repeating alredy learned stuff which is too basic, you get bored with the endless repetition and start making mistakes you wouldn’t normally make. Bringing back the test out function would be wise.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nyarlath

    The problem with the new system is that it does not tell me where my weak spots are and which topic I should practice for maximal profit. The number of training is very weakly correlated with the proficiency (which actually do decay), making the crown level meaningless for learning, and even if we in fact would happen to train more, we are likely to learn less because of the higher frequency of sub-optimally-spaced repetition.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vivifie2

    I really hate this new system. It goes too slowly and gives the learner much too little control. It would be great for those who are starting a new language, but it is deadly for faux beginners. The program has no way to know what are typos or errors due to lapsed attention. There should be some way for the learner to level up in a skill . The program can send them backwards again if there are too many errors. Please, either give the alternative to go back to the old system or create a means for learners to control the levels.. I don't know if I can stick with this snail pace. True the learning would be really reinforced, but the time it takes to get anywhere is ridiculous. Explicit grammar lessons would be much more useful.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jumi212

    I want to cry! I started my practice session today at level 20 and with most sujects gold. Halway though DL changed me to the crowns system and every subject reverted to either no crowns or a few at 1 or 2 crowns. Even ‘basics 1’ went back to one crown, I just spent over half an hour just repeating - I am a man, I am a boy, I am a girl, I am a woman to get to 5 crowns on basics 1. Nothing else - just repeating these same sentences over and over and over ......... So boring and not teaching me anything at all. Surely someone who is at level 20 and had most subjects ‘gold’ should be assumed to have five crowns at such a basic level. I feel very demoralised that I more or less have to start from scratch as a beginner and have no way now to tell how I am genuinely progressing. Also, when I reached level 21 I didn’t get any lingots - how do I earn lingots now? Just off to dive into a large G&T to dull the pain.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elmanisero777

    Completely agree. Practiced saying hello and goodbye in Chinese for an hour yesterday just to reach level 5 crown. Also in the meantime, have a lingot on me ;)

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaBalint2

    Nyihao fellow language learner :D Imagine spending another hour on learning how to order a beer in mandarin (make sure to order the cold beer in China though as they serve hot ones too ;). Maybe we should save our time from Duolingo and go out and travel instead. here have two lingots though ;) I won't be needing them much anymore anyways

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elmanisero777

    我已经去过中国,多邻国很帮助我。 我在中国点了很多啤酒 :D 但是现在我在多邻国练习“你好”....

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/niahrya

    I'm also missing the way to get Lingots through leveling up - how am I supposed to "buy" the extra lessons which can be bought with Lingots if I am not able to receive them anymore? - very disappointing. At least, I kept my 28 Lingots, but that's not even enough to buy the next bonus content. ;-/

    April 12, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HumaShaz

    I have been using Duolingo for more than a year and a half and I was absolutely in love with it until this entire "Crowns" update came along. I personally don't like it one bit. First they updated my French tree for which I am very grateful (I really am), then they gave me "Crowns". Since then, I have been confused, angry, upset and heartbroken. I personally don't care about the fluency meter because it really doesn't reflect my actual French speaking ability but is more of an indication of where I stand in Duolingo's course. But what I do care about was my ability to choose between practicing individual lessons of a skill and an entire skill. I no longer have an idea as to what new words I am going to learn in any given lesson. I don't know about other people but before it was like an incentive for me to stare at the word list of each lesson and trying to figure out their meanings based on my knowledge. Now, I have lost that fun (sic). Again, why don't the skills decay over time. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever as to why this particular feature was overlooked. I very much favour it since it keeps reminding me that I need to revise my earlier lessons from time to time. It has also helped with improving my vocabulary. I know that team Duolingo has put in a lot of effort in all this except it was not what most of us, Duolingo users, wanted. I pray for a better tomorrow when team Duolingo is able to strike a proper balance between what we actually want and this entire chaos that has been let loose on Duolingo under the assumption of improving our language learning capability.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Soolrak

    I'm not a big fan of Crowns, but I think we need to adapt to it, and if Duolingo says it's for our own benefit, I believe them and support them. I am loyal to you, green owl.

    Thanks for all, Duo.

    March 28, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

    but I think we need to adapt to it

    Hi Soolrak,

    Why do we "need" to adapt it right now?

    Because investors, "business developers" and programmers have finally decided to roll out the "Skill crown level" (BETA) code as it is right now?

    Don't you think it would be better to incorporate all user feedback (negative, concrete suggestions, change requests, etc.) and find a way in the next ~6-12 months to enhance and improve the current BETA code to it fits more (especially long-term) users before FORCING an update instead of opt-in / opt-out?

    April 2, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charles215113

    Right on the money. We don't need to adapt to ❤❤❤❤. We will adapt if we feel like it, when we're ready and not before. Better go polish your jackboots soolrak, the Führer will want you on parade soon!

    April 5, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AustinJaco15

    All hail el buho verde!

    March 29, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MemeMcQueen116

    ¡Viva el búho verde y sus alas gloriosas!

    March 29, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AustinJaco15

    In hindsight, I find it surprising that I had to actually look up owl. How was owl not one of the core animals?

    March 29, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/garpike

    Owls are not things most people often need to make reference to (although penguins even less so), so I'd question its usefulness as 'core vocabulary'. It is given in many DL courses, however (including German, I think). By way of contrast, I can only remember seeing a word for 'pigeon' in a single course, and 'sparrow' is in none at all--both of which birds are far more likely to be encountered in everyday life than owls.

    March 30, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flootzavut

    Depends on the tree creators. I know that owl has definitely appeared in Hebrew, for example.

    March 30, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

    Yes and also dove but I haven't seen penguin. Maybe different languages talk about different birds more.

    April 4, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Springjade

    It would be great if you reinstate progress tests.

    April 3, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sh.rodz

    Wait, these crowns are absurd... Why do I have to pass 9 exercises to get a crown at the basic level???? I lived in Italy for six months and can conjugate in the subjunctive, for fish's sake! I have to translate "I am a girl" 50 times to have a golden tree when I'm in level 17????? Honestly, this is so discouraging as an advanced learner of a language.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/edbonjokian

    Ach du heilige scheiße.

    After a long time away from Duolingo, over the past month I have been steadily working through all of the lessons I had previously completed and turning them gold, and I was almost back to where I had left off previously. Tonight I logged on and realised I had a couple lessons that needed strengthening, I completed one and then the carpet was ripped out from under me. Crowns? What happened to all my progress, unceremoniously knocked back to beginner, not in reality, but now I feel like I have to get everything back to a high level. Get the "crowns" maxed out.

    I think to myself, be patient, use this as an opportunity to solidify the basics, and improve on dative and accusative cases. So I try the basics lesson to see what the new look is all about. Translate man to German. "Okay, Mann." Then woman. "Frau." Now water. "Wait where are the articles? You want me to review these basics to level up crowns, but you are not even going to challenge my knowledge of articles in a language that demands you memorise the article with the noun? That was getting to level 3 of basics, which then just repeated the same words.

    Skip ahead? But where? I now have to pick through the different lessons to find where I fit, where my skills and knowledge are weak. I am not pleased. My learning is disrupted, my love of this app is crushed, and I am finding it hard to continue with Duo.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charles215113

    Es ging von gut zum scheißhosen im Sekunden. Duolingo kann selbst in den Arsch ficken.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/garciaefremov

    "This is a total redesign of the skill tree that solves one of Duolingo’s biggest challenges: remaining fun for casual learners while still offering advanced content for serious learners."

    That is pretty good gaslighting. Here is an excerpt from a book subtitled "The Future of Education". The antecedent for "he" in this passage is Luis von Ahn.

    "He devised it in a startup that he launched in 2012 called Duolingo. The site and smartphone app help people learn foreign languages— something he can empathize with, having learned English as a young child in Guatemala. "But the instruction happens in a very clever way. The company has people translate texts in small phrases at a time, or evaluate and fix other people's translations."

    I did not understand why the immersion "feature" was eliminated, because it was half of the founding goal. Now I do understand - Duolingo has pivoted. The twofer originally conceived by Dr. von Ahn, 1) help people learn foreign languages and 2) translate texts (which was where the money was supposed to come from) is now a different twofer: 1) show ads/get paid, and 2) get paid not to.

    Anyway, since you are now a game company, you might consider that from a gaming perspective, I was working on both long-term and short-term quests which are now unachievable, and your new game does not even have a character class that I like. I came here to perform unpaid translation work, but turns out you only like me for my ad revenue. Sad trombone dot com.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/garciaefremov

    Two days later, final update: I haven't practiced since doing exactly one lesson on the first day I got crowns. Since then, I've let my 86-day streak die. I am leaving Duolingo and I regret nothing. My final score is 39,978 XP, 1045 lingots, with seven owls earned. An additional seven owls were abandoned incomplete.

    This is Felicia, signing off.

    April 10, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tlaguz

    It's actually amazing how Duolingo manages to get worse with every update. Adding more unnecessary and not user-friendly stuff instead of fixing existing bugs, nice. No option to review the part of the lesson that the learner needs at the moment or see the list of words? Seriously? You say you "consider" bringing it back but I don't understand how you've managed to get an idea that getting rid of this would be a great addition to the course. Surely no one is going to bring back the old system because it doesn't work like this. And no, I won't give this "crown" system a chance and won't try to adjust to it. I rarely comment on anything at all but this site has been a part of my daily routine for years and I'm very disappointed now. I hope you'll listen to the suggestions made by other Duolingo users and improve this new system so that they'll stay on this site. But I'm choosing to just buy a textbook/app/course at some better place instead of wasting my time here.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ViticellaV

    Here's a suggestion: Instead of trying to fix a system that's already running smoothly, why not try to fix the things that aren't? Duolingo has been rolling out upgrade after upgrade, and they come with errors and downsides that don't seem to get fixed. Like the hints covering the box your typing in or the unclear male voice in German. If you try to 'fix' something that's already working, you're going to meet a lot of resistance. Personally, I find the 'crown' system a minor nightmare. Usually I practice just until my German tree's golden, strengthen a skill or two in Russian, and then some other languages. Now I can't tell which ones need to be strengthened at all.

    But if this has to be a thing, why don't you give the users the choice as to whether or not they use the crown system? For some who find re-strengthening skills daily frustrating, it might be a major improvement, but for others, like me, it's a bummer. Letting us decide seems like a logical option.

    April 7, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Spacegrrrl42

    Terrible update. Awful. I keep running out of health, practicing doesn't "reward" you anymore, and if I see "I am a girl. I am a boy" one more time I'm going to scream. Why am I doing kindergarten level practice when I was almost finished completing the entire board? I'm outtie.

    April 8, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Philip_Sloper

    I can't think of a single positive thing to say about the changes to "crowns". Doing all the basic stuff again is incredibly boring, and I am making mistakes because of sheer boredom! What is the point of it? I want to learn more Italian not repeatedly go over and over again stuff that I know already. It's not revision, it is turgid and boring. 0 out of 10 for the changes, Duolingo.

    April 8, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bahalam

    Yes it sounded like a nice addition to some. Now more people are finding out that it's just an utter disappointment. Every user who needs that mental satisfaction of seeing their tree golden, will be desperately refreshing simple sentences such as "I am a fly", "He is a snake" for lifetime, hoping that there are harder questions to come. There are NOT! This not what they deserve. They have spent the most valuable thing they had. Their TIME! Some have even donated and paid for subscription. This is not how you guys repay us. You wanna test out your ideas and see how people complain? Okay, do it. But the crown system is not in a condition to be made compulsory. Please just hear us out and include an option to Enable/Disable this. Give us the right and freedom to choose the system we enjoy. Isn't that the most effective parameter of learning? This used be the app I really loved spending time with. At least stop that nonsense with the ascending number of lessons for each crown level. Not need to mention that Health is being graduated from A/B testing and will soon join the party to make this repetition literally IMPOSSIBLE. Take action, otherwise many of your loyal users will have to kiss this app Goodbye. If you really intended to elevate our motivation, I can assure you that it is the exact thing we have lost now completely. Prevent that if you should....

    April 8, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vivifie2

    I may be unique, but I just want to learn the language. I don't care about Lingots or any external motivators. I thought I had extreme patience for exercises that would be boring to others, but this "Crowns" roll out has exceeded my limits. So far, I have seen no increase in difficulty -- just endless iterations of : I am a woman and you are a man. How many hours of this would I have to go through to get the the level I was practicing before this unwelcome change appeared. (I had completed the tree and gone back often to refresh and relearn.) Is there no way to offer the old system to those who want to stick with it? PLEASE!!!

    April 8, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

    Me too! PLEASE bring back the old system!

    April 11, 2018

    [deactivated user]

      Maybe you have a good point: there are many people with different levels, way of learning etcetera. What Duolingo is doing: to make is equal for every type of learner: skilled, way of learning, how much you want to repeat is and what et cetera. If you want to repeat, now it is not possible, only how DL describes it so you see many exercises so very simple and a lot of repetition in it. I can imagine that an it professional who works on it is very proud of the results. Maybe there is also a need for professional help about programming, way people learn, how you can make the program more adaptive, and so on. There is a bottom of knowledge under Duolingo about learning but however not understood by everyone. So more emphasis on how people learn will be a good idea

      April 8, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mac244295

      Is anyone else finding that the mindless repetition of simple words or phrases, particularly in the basic levels, is causing them to lose concentration and make simple translation errors. Duo, I know what Oui means in French, mulher,menina and menino in Portuguese etc etc and these and similar words are never likely to fall from the memory.

      April 9, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/buck72

      Thank you for your detailed explanation. After reading many of the recent comments, I was becoming a bit apprehensive about converting to the new crown levels, but now am looking forward to it.

      March 28, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hughcparker

      I'm really pleased and relieved to find out that the practice button is still going to be around. I rely on Duolingo scheduling my revision so I don't have to :)

      Thanks for the re-assurance.

      March 28, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gabetrav

      If anyone has any idea where this button is, I’d appreciate it. The screen shots in the Apple App Store don’t match the actual app.

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pentaan

      Practice instead of doing a lesson:
      Tap the blue button with the white dumbell
      (in the Android App: at the bottom of the screen, in the right corner)

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

      Dear Karint,

      We will roll out Crowns to EVERYONE in the next few weeks.

      But now I will definitely hit my head against the wall!

      Is there a way to turn off crowns?: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26651173

      Multiple users have created multiple threads like this that they want to ROLLBACK and disable crowns.
      Your team is clearly not listening to their userbase!
      If you FORCE users into using it, you might lose users!

      Q: Why do you want to even close the workaround to DISABLE crowns for those users, who 1000% do not want it right now???


      Reverse trees and laddering in the new crown system: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26710993

      Not ANY of the specific reverse tree questions have been picked and answered by your team in this FAQ thread! :(

      Crown System Improvement?: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26650780

      This thread contains a lot of other quotes from threads which have linked into to have a "central place".

      Luis has responded to this thread - so your CEO must already be aware of all of my thoughts and fears from other users about reverse trees, if he is still subscribed to this thread??!?

      Not any of my 2+ code user setting suggestions have been picked up by your development team!! Why?

      Would you please confirm?!

      Would you please answer those specific questions about reverse trees in a 2nd Crowns reverse and laddering FAQ thread?

      Thank you for taking your time.


      Is there any option to opt-out from this FORCED rollout in 2018 and Q1/2019 (maybe Q2/2019)?

      I really want to first finish my two PT-DE and PT-EN reverse trees on the "old Duo strenghten system" for at least the next 9-12 months.

      I told your team by giving feedback in multiple "crown threads" that I am very thankful, that you gave me the opt-in option with the "Upgrade now" button you gave 10% of your users as explained by you above.

      I really do not want to be FORCED now into this IMHO "more half-baked BETA" Crown level code right now with ZERO user advanced customization abilities, which will surely (>85-90% or greater) corrupt my reverse trees!

      Shall I close my eyes and just let it happen?
      Shall I abandon DuoLingo and move to something else?
      .
      .
      I have ZERO interests to go from Crown level 0 to 1 to 2 to 3 step by step, just to maybe finally get some longer and much more difficult (Portuguese) sentences for L4/L5 (we both know this will probably not happen as it will be switched?!)!!!

      And even this will be 100% wrong for L4+L5 as your NEW crown system will simply replace L1 Portuguese translations (my goal!) with L2 German or English translations (the target language for the PT-DE or PT-EN tree).
      .
      .
      The reverse tree could currently even be further optimized, by turning OFF all different target exercise challenges (e.g fill in the blank, select from 3-6 options, etc.) and replace ALL OF these additional "challenges" you introduced in 2017 and 2018 by only one strict typing or multiple-choice challenge on the web portal into the L1 Portuguese (to be practiced) language.
      .
      .
      I am a long-term (Java) developer myself.
      I know how easily it SHOULD BE to just add 2-3 more (advanced, difficulty, etc.) user settings for EACH tree.
      This won't take your team probably more than 3-5 days to develop and test.
      Let's say 10-20 work days including QS and detail ALPHA tests.
      Within a 3 months period you could have users apply for these "reverse tree enhancement" tests and get ton's of useful feedback to sort out bugs!!!

      Is your Scala backend code really that inflexibel to be enhanced BEFORE a forced mass-rollout to ALL users???

      By not listening, your team is really going to make all "long-term advanced DuoLingo members" pretty mad!

      Look at the SHOF www.duolingo.eu site.

      You might lose all of them!

      Do you really think that anybody of this target userbase is interested to go from Crown levels L0 to L1 to L2,... sequentially for a reverse or laddering tree to focus on only the too easy basic stuff if they have already been practicing their target languages for 1 to 1,5 years AND finished their forward tree(s) (golden owl)???

      Ich und viele andere würden so darauf hoffen dass Ihr Eure Meinung ändert!

      Viele Grüße / Best regards from Germany

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terry614373

      I went to level 5 on the very last skill in the Spanish course. There was no increase in difficulty in any of the levels. They were all the same dialogs. I’m not happy that I won’t have a completely Golden Spanish tree anymore. I tested out of every level I was allowed to test out of. I only completed the last 7-8 skills. So, now all of my basic skills are at crown level 1-3, with the majority being at level 1. Everybody lives to see a solid gold tree, but do you think for one minute that I’m going back and doing basics 30 times each to get them all back to gold? This is really frustrating.

      April 3, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hermesianax

      Thomas, the test-out for multiple skills will still be there, right? For laddering trees, that should be about enough, I think. I can imagine it might not get you far enough in reverse trees, but let's be honest, they have always been a kind of artificial way of getting more translation into the target language. And that is supposed to be solved now with this system by reaching lvl 4-5.

      I don't know, I still haven't received the update yet. But equally I don't think you have already reached that many lvl 5's yet to properly judge this.

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dlhgl

      getting more translation into the target language

      I have some golden skills now on my Polish tree and for crown level 5 there were definitely more translations into the target language than the other way round. There were even several lesson where I only had to answer in the target language. That's great and a good way to improve my Polish knowledge.

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hermesianax

      That's absolutely awesome to hear! I hope it won't be too much of a pain to get multiple skills to level 5 in order to actually profit from those more advanced exercises.

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

      Hi Hermesianax,

      the test-out for multiple skills will still be there, right? For laddering trees, that should be about enough, I think I can imagine it might not get you far enough in reverse trees

      Well, Matfran had described this in 2017 in another thread (sorry, I have no link, would love to re-read it for myself!) in more detail from his experience:

      • Test-outs won't show you all words / all available sentences.
      • And your max. seen (learned) words count is definitely effected if you would do this.

      I could see it with my DE-EN and EN-DE trees where I used the "Placement test" and "Checkpoint test outs" and "Skill test out".

      As my PT-DE reverse tree teaches so many NEW vocabularies, I will definitely use the normal lesson-by-lesson and skill-by-skill sequential concept.

      Not a single "test out"!!
      I really want to see ALL available sentences and vocabulary!

      they have always been a kind of artificial way of getting more translation into the target language. And that is supposed to be solved now with this system by reaching lvl 4-5.

      No, this will not address different course content and more complex (native) Portuguese material, e.g "the jumping Subjunctive" out of nowhere, Portuguese sentences of more difficulty within the PT-DE and PT-EN reverse trees.

      A reverse tree is not an 1:1 exact clone of a forward tree.
      Content and sentences will vary to an extent!

      I can even see this at my PT-DE 36,1% tree progress mark.
      .
      .
      I quoted georgeoftruth and jzsuzsi from other threads (with links) and tried to describe here in more detail what I mean: "Crown system improvement" https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26650780$comment_id=26713564

      AFAIU the same has been e.g said for the Spanish-English reverse tree (before the EN-SP bigger tree update from ALPHA test) in other threads, that this tree explores different content and many learners liked it / benefited from it - including the "jumping Subjunctive" across several skills "out of nowhere"?!?

      And that is supposed to be solved now with this system by reaching lvl 4-5.

      Honestly, I have no idea.
      Other learners have said, that content (sentence) difficulty has not changed for them that much reaching higher crown levels.

      This could be course specific, how many longer and more complex sentences (more difficult rated by the system) are in the course database, but have been put back for a while because of many users dropping out.

      I don't know, I still haven't received the update yet. But equally I don't think you have already reached that many lvl 5's yet to properly judge this.

      I posted it in another thread, that the SHOF "Practice (Skill strengthen)" button gave me some sentences on crown level L2, where the "sentence" discussion have been last updated (2) 3 or 4 years ago.
      This was the case for English-Portuguese (from English).

      It has been said by others, that older sentences (hidden) have been re-activated.
      I don't know on what dedicated crown levels this might happen.

      I somehow still believe that the hidden "Skill strengthen" button might ignore crown levels L2-L5, as it was not adjusted (re-programmed) for crowns?!?
      .
      .
      I do not believe that I will reach crown levels L4-5 in 2018 for my EN-PT tree for a single skill in the second half / last quarter of my tree! :-)

      [Crown conversion BUG] Not a single L3 skill; 39 golden skills wrongly migrated to L2 for my 1,5 years tree with "simple" conversion: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26853820

      Their crown conversion "simple" rule put me into crown L2 for most of my skills, very few (not practiced heavily since I finished my tree 11/2017) have been L1.
      Not a single L3 crown skill! :-(

      So this will take time (2019++) as I will focus first for the next 3-6 months on re-strengthening (100%) single skills.
      Maybe for a few "Grammar skills" I will do lessons to move from L2 to L3.

      But I definitely think that crowns L4 + L5 in my EN-PT tree won't give me exactly the same skill / sentence content which I will see for the PT-DE and PT-EN reverse trees (teaching a native PT speaker German or English) even on a L0/L1 crown level.

      Viele Grüße / Best regards

      April 15, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RandoLukk

      But why do we have to use health all the time now. In the old version, if you completed a skill, you could redo the same skill without the fear of losing health. If there are more health lessons, why not make the health regenerate for a smaller time?

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Niggle2

      I agree 100%. I have generally done about ten to fifteen sessions each day and I was able to maintain my ‘health’ by practicing old skills to make up for health lost in new skills. Now that health is lost in every skill I can no longer do the amount of practice I used to do. How is that meant to help me learn?

      April 1, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FowlLanguage

      I think you can still practice from the health tab to refill your health.

      April 1, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RandoLukk

      Also, the health is only in iOS devices. But for some reason, Hungarian, Korean and Japanese do not use health in iOS devices.

      April 2, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-.Andrew.-

      Probably because they're newer trees, I bet.

      April 2, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terry614373

      And why does the health decrease in one language affect all of your languages? There should be a separate “Health” wheel for every language you’re taking!!!

      April 3, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-.Andrew.-

      Wait, you guys still have health system?
      I thought that was eliminated long ago.

      I feel really bad for you guys then... : (

      April 1, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FowlLanguage

      I definitely still have it on my iPhone.

      April 1, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dinnernugget

      Sorry for being late to the party, but if you're at Crown Level 5 in a certain skill, do you have any incentive to ever practice that skill again?

      March 31, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bahalam

      Yes. I was here to "LEARN". Of course if I someday feel that my knowledge about a certain skill is fading. I'll refresh it. Or I'll do a few general refreshes just as review. And we are not going to leave the app, if they give us what we deserve for our hard work. We're going to learn other languages and keep recommending this to anyone. In fact, I made the Spanish Tree golden. I was going to finish German Tree too. However if I see that I am NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE GOLD again, in that case I might lose my persistency (Streak) and never be motivated to restart, especially if I know in order to achieve that I'm gonna come here and answer the same stupid questions about a very easy subject again and again and again. Just think about I am a turtle, You are an apple. You have to do this tens of times!!!

      April 2, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/coto.i
      • 1606

      No more 404 please!

      March 31, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Harpissima

      Screw crowns, such utter BS!

      April 6, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/beatricejane

      This is going backwards over well practised ground just to get to where I was before. Not an improvement

      April 6, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NebraskaJonnes

      Ugh, I hate the new system.

      April 6, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charles215113

      Welcome to the club. You join an ever growing population of users who think Duolingo now sucks. For what it's worth, I'm right with ya.

      April 7, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E.T.Gregor

      "Since levels get harder as you go up, we didn’t feel comfortable placing anyone at Level 4 or 5, since the old system didn’t give hard enough exercises to place into these levels." - I thought that meant that things actually got more difficult! But I'm getting the exact same sentences as before! I've just powered through one of the smaller skills in the Swedish tree to see what there was at level 5 and I haven't seen a single sentence even at level 5 that I didn't know before! And since I did most of my learning on the computer, I don't even get them in a harder format. Actually, since there's no time limit anymore, this got EASIER. I'm a little disappointed right now...

      April 6, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wstockall

      If you "powered through" to level 5, you have the timed practice available on at least that one skill. It shows again once you have the skill to level 5, but currently not before. Hm. I haven't checked to see if it shows up on a general "strengthen" practice. Maybe I'll try that later tonight.

      April 6, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Voivode1456

      So far I HATE everything about the new system! Perhaps you should have started out by shooting out that email because I did not know this was coming at all! I follow a very specific study regimen that is not compatible with the new system at all. So I am essentially stuck starting over! Feeling pretty pissed at the moment!

      April 7, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alkimeer

      Ik ook.

      July 3, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/michelle959893

      I have a 696 day streak in Russian, and no, I don't want to have to do the Alphabet lesson 15 times (along with all the others that are ingrained in my memory) again. I was a plus subscriber. Just cancelled my subscription.

      April 7, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaMosbyColeman

      Unfortunately the crown system is boring. That my most fluent language, French, was reduced to a very basic level is completely discouraging -- especially since the basic level learning exercises are designed for brand new language learners. After a 783 day streak, and using the crown system for two days, I am thinking of quitting Duolingo. I loved Duolingo. Do other longtime users have a similar feeling?

      April 8, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YarkoRab

      Unfortunately many of us have similar feelings. When I see I have to go over my 25th level Italian fromthe beginning makes me feel sick, really. Sono un ragazzo, Lei beve l'acqua - I was there a long time ago. I think some way to level up quickly would be a very welcome addition. I strongly believe that having seen all negative comments they are goingto make some changes, to our mutal satisfaction.

      April 8, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

      Yes, I totally feel the same way!

      April 11, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kenmerk

      Yup. I'm totally done with it. It's vandalization.

      April 8, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gamekkeut

      Thanks for the rundown of common concerns!

      I don’t have experience with the crown system yet (not sure if it’s available for beta languages, but Korean remains in the old system), but I’ve been pretty interested in the response since the switch began. I’m actually fairly excited to see Duolingo take into account the cries for more complex structures, just so that those of us who are more advanced will want to stick around longer.

      If y’all can figure out a way to give us a visual as aesthetically satisfying as a golden tree, you’ll hit a home run!

      March 28, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lrtward

      It is available for beta languages. When I got crowns, it affected ALL my languages, the ones I'm learning from English, from other languages, and Czech which is in beta.

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gamekkeut

      Thanks!

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stardust103158

      Since fluency has had so many flaws in the past and some people just flat-out don't want it, perhaps a better indicator that would be far more relevant would be an indicator that showed at what language learning level a person was: A1, A2, A3, B1, B2, B3, etc.That is actually how a person learning a new language is able to gauge their mastery and would more relevant to us. I realize this would taken some programming and be down the road, but it is a thought for the future.

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mereade

      While this idea is in general not bad, there are two catches. First of all, there are no A3 and B3 levels (and Duo goes to B1 at most and probably not in all the trees). Secondly, these CEFR levels may not fit the Duolingo course exactly, as each tree has been made by a different team and may have chosen a bit different way to order things from the order in most coursebooks these days. That is not a bad thing, not at all, it just may be different for the cefr level assignation.

      Also, these levels might lead people to wrong assumptions about their level, just like fluency did. To actually get to the level, you need much more practice and I am afraid Duo is gonna be too superficial even after this change. But who knows, perhaps the Crowns will make the exercises complex and hard enough to really cover at least the low levels in enough detail. And Duo would still be giving us just the part of the theoretical base for the level, so it would be a mistake to consider oneself really an A2 or B1 just with Duolingo.

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

      would be an indicator that showed at what language learning level a person was: A1, A2, A3, B1, B2, B3, etc

      A3 and B3 are not available in CEFR.

      Although most classroom courses sub-divide between B1.1, B1.2, B2.1, B2.2, A2.1, A2.2, etc.

      CEFR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages

      ILR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILR_scale
      http://www.govtilr.org/skills/ILRscale2.htm

      Common European Framework: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languages

      FSI e.g lists languages within a difficulty table (how many class hours) to reach "Speaking 3: General Professional Proficiency in Speaking (S3)" and "Reading 3: General Professional Proficiency in Reading (R3)" levels:
      Voxy coloured chart: https://voxy.com/blog/2011/03/hardest-languages-infographic/
      Table list: http://multilingualbooks.com/languagedifficulty.html

      April 2, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yoreni4

      "We’re trying to figure out ways to display Crowns better so that people can be satisfied hitting each level, not just Level 5."

      I Have an idea maybe instead of gold only equals lvl 5 maybe make ot that lvl 4 goes silver and lvl 3 goes bronze

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MasterYods

      I like this, but levels 1 and 2 need something as well. Maybe just going all blue for level one and all red for level two, and then the red flows well into bronze for level 3. ?

      March 29, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yoreni4

      idk having colours for lvl 1 and 2 cos maybe if the differnt colours started at 3 then people might get more movavation to get lvl 3 we could have a colour for lvl 2 but i think lvl 1 should just be normal colour

      March 30, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WillDukes3

      I think the gold/silver/bronze idea is by far the best for how to do colors - I really hope they do this. As a small variation, you could use bronze for level 1, silver for level 2, and gold for level 3, and then add something extra as visual indicators of levels 4 and 5 - like a laurel wreath, or stars, or a crown.

      April 6, 2018

      [deactivated user]

        I used to be quite optimistic about the Crowns update because I'd like to see harder exercises, but now I have it I realised what it's actually for. DL wants you to study more/redo lessons and use up health, which you can't spend on revising skills on the old system. Once it runs out, the harder lessons are no use of you educationally because you're locked out of the app for 5 hours. It's just a possibility, I would like it if the health bars recharge sooner or DL be more transparent about this. IMHO, the fluency meter is misleading and should be replaced by more useful metrics.

        April 3, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terry614373

        Do you realize we have to computer each skill level 100 times each before it turns gold? Do you realize that skill levels that people tested out of because they already knew that part, are at level 1? Do you realize this app is now very boring for me? Is anybody from Duolingo even reading these posts?

        April 5, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/krejd

        I just got the crowns update myself.

        I miss being able to see words in each lesson.

        We can consider bringing it back in some form, but right now we think investing in better ways to see and practice words makes more sense.

        This should really be a priority. If I can't see the words I learned in a particular section of the course - because you think it's better for me and you give me no other choice - it means it's a bad system really.

        Also, this way I have no idea what I'm gonna learn in my next lesson (because there is no list of words for that section whatsoever). It's a bad design for sure.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrea907531

        I always did a new lesson twice. Now I have to wait with the repetition until I have done a whole circle of lessons. That's to much new input, before I can start to repeat it! I think I now have to write down each new lesson in an exercise book while I'm doing it, to be able to repeat it later. That's really less fun.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWarr

        I'm sorry to be repetitive, but some of the problems with the new system are being repeated, and the following will solve some of them: https://duolingo.eu/Andrea907531/progress/ As well as showing you the current Strength of each Skill (they do decay with time), if you click on a Skill there, it presents the lessons in the old format, along with word lists and the ability to Redo a lesson.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/none4

        Useful info, thanks! BUT, you can redo ONLY the first lesson and all the others are LOCKED!!! How foolish is that! Even though I have already completed them once before.

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

        No, the content of all the lessons in the skill are there, but you have to click on the same button over and over to get to them all.

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kalirush

        I'm pretty confused here- it says in this FAQ that all our completed lessons are still completed. But in fact, not a single one of my lessons is listed as complete- forex on the first lesson I have 3 crowns but the lessons are 0/6. If I have to go back and retake every single lesson from the start of the tree (with no option to test out), I'm going to be extremely frustrated. Is that really the deal?

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Margolf

        that is exactly what it looks like for me -- whole tree was gold - it reset everything to 1 or 2 crowns.......and in order to do anything starts me with the basic basic basic ........I want to poke my eyes out about now.......no fun AT ALL......

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heike333145

        I started with my highest skill. I like the idea that I can just pick something to work on. If I feel tired, I'll do a little more basic stuff, and if I feel OK, I'll do something more difficult.

        I like it, and I trust that I will acquire deeper knowledge in each skill. (When I move from level 2 to level 5 in that skill.)

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Larkspire

        Sorry to say that you will not be requiring any deeper knowledge. You will just be repeating the same words you learnt at level 1 of that skill over and over.

        April 16, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/widle

        The 0/6 means your progress from level 3 to 4, not from zero.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kalirush

        I see. So in fact, in order to get the tree gold, I have to do the entire tree five times? That's... a waste of ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ time. Unless they really have more advanced material, which a preliminary investigation of my tree indicates they do not.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarynJoy

        I miss seeing the words. I also miss being able to redo a lesson. It helps me to be able to go back over a lesson, learning a few words at a time, rather than having to do them all at once and then it getting harder before I'm ready. I guess I could use the review and copy the exercises, but that's more work. Maybe a repeat previous lesson option or a category word bank page?

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Panda.Dani

        This is just me and my strange personality

        When my changed to the crowns today it drove me CRAZY to see crowns that had different numbers all over the place. I want mine to be at level 5 before I move forward so I had to start my whole tree over, I'm bummed that I'm like this but it just drove me crazy.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sedlacek_m

        Definitely not just you! It’s driving me crazy too... Honestly if DL don’t get their sheet cake together soon, I’m gone

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KirkNichol

        I like that lessons seemingly have greater depth, but I find it frustrating how I can't re-take the previous lesson. I prefer to learn only a few words at a time, and find it very difficult if the only way to review words I've just been exposed to is to learn new words or increase the difficulty of the lesson.

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Contrapunctus_

        I really miss the word list in each section!

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KellyShand

        Please bring back the visual of the lessons and the option to choose them. I dislike not being able to pick and choose my own lessons in a specific area. If I need to repeat a lesson for better clarity you have taken that option away from me, and your users.

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/artworkings

        What the **** have you done???? I hate it! I was full skill on each level now I am almost back at the begining! Restore it or at least give us the option!

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jessaboehner

        When my system updated to crowns, the option for chatting with bots disappeared. Is it possible to get that back? It was one of my favorite ways to practice!

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelpfulDuo

        Hi jessaboehner! Bots was removed temporarily from the iOS app, and they are coming back in a more integrated way. They are not gone forever! Please keep in mind that that change is unrelated to Crowns.

        April 10, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

        Yay! That is wonderful news! The bots are a favorite for me!

        April 11, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elmanisero777

        Are they going to be available to other forms of Duolingo soon?

        April 11, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juliane339717

        Great to hear they´ll be back - I love them

        April 11, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaBalint2

        Dear Duolingo Team,

        I have been on duolingo for a few years now and would first of all like to thank you for the years of happy Portuguese learning I have had so far. I have always appreciated the fact that I can up my Portuguese vocabulary and actually revisit the items that I genuinely "forgot". One year ago you introduced the advertisements, which was annoying but bearable as I understand that you have to make money somehow. But what you did now is not user -centric at all! Maybe it will give you a temporary boost in profits due to the sheer amount of adverts one has to watch to make any language learning progress at all. (That is if not all your users will wake-up and find a better platform out there within the next few hours.)

        I tested this crown system on the simple Tu/voce item in Portuguese, and guess what? After I did an entire lesson of Portuguese baby level (which I was able to test-out of even when I started learning with you guys), I then levelled up to crown two. Within crown 2, I had to do the exact same lesson twice (same same lesson as in crown level 1!) to level up to crown 3, and guess what, then the exact same lesson was waiting for me there again thrice to be able to level up to crown 4. If you gave me this exercise even as a 7 year old at school I wouldn't do it, and here you go playing with your millions of dedicated adult users who are looking at you for a source of genuine learning. And you want to lose all their trust?

        This example as seen on the short tu/voce lesson is ridiculous, it has nothing to do with language learning but is just a way for us to watch more adverts on your platform.

        For all users looking for effective alternatives to spend the majority of their learning on I can recommend mangolanguages. I am definitely going back to them as my primary source of language learning after I have now been let down by you guys. Hope that you can still change your new income/advert attitude in the future.

        Best regards and also good luck to all you learners out there, Lumbymon

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kangaroolotty

        thanks for the tip - I shall try mangolanguages! I am also feeling like l'll be leaving duolingo asap unless they sort this out. shame as it was really effective.

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elliot2560

        I think you guys probably interpreted the "time spent on website/app" metric wrong on this one. People who are set back by the crown feature are desperately trying to get back their original golden tree, and that requires so many more mind numbing practices now, so they spend more time on the website. That is by no means a good thing, and shouldn't be taken as indication that the crown feature is good.

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vivifie2

        Exactly. I am about to give up. Repeating the same thing over and over , I started trying to get past it , but now am getting ready to give up.

        April 8, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/guineagirl96

        I couldn't agree more. I can't believe they would use time spent on the app as an indicator of the crowns being good.

        April 8, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MasterYods

        Agreed. People are scrambling now, but that's not an indication of a long term metric.

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nettsooon

        I think the new Crown system doesn't give any good overview of what i should practice on next. This Crown system has been in the app since I started using it, but I always preferred using the desktop version as keeping all my skills golden was more of a motivation.

        I've studied French for years, and when i started using Duolingo a few months ago I got tested out of a lot of basic skills. This new Crown system has now placed me on level 1 on all of these basic skills. It's quite insulting! I just spent 1 h repeating "i am a girl", "a woman eats an apple, "a man" to see what level 5 is like. I saw minimal change in difficulty, only dull repetition. I have mastered the basic skills, but the tree doesn't reflect that anymore.

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChristineB623986

        OMG. After spending many hours the last few days trying to catch up on the skills I already had before they were obliterated I now find I will have to complete 30 lessons to gain Level 5 on this silly new system for French foods which I have known for 40 years. I and most other more advanced learners do not have this sort of time to waste! As my German and Spanish knowledge is more basic the new system might work but for those of us who just want to improve language we already know it is frankly ridiculous. PLEASE PLEASE sort it out.

        April 8, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YarkoRab

        It is so dissatisfying to find out that your practice button doesn't have any influence on regilding the circles! I'm sick of repeating for the hundreth time: I'm a boy, I eat bread etc. Really! I've done the tree, reached the 25th level, practised much beyond that and what do I get? Come back and do the basics, wow!

        April 8, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wandacleo

        I decided to start at the top and try to work my way back through the crowns since I was almost done with the program. This is what I've found. All these myriad tests do not increase in difficulty--they simply recycle the same things over and over again. How many times do you think it takes to figure out that éléphant in French means elephant in English? If the tests are not going to add new information--and so far, there seems to be no explanations or practice, just questions--what is the point?

        April 8, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vivifie2

        I agree - after the 40th: I am a girl, you are a boy.

        April 8, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hyacinth3704

        I guess what I'm not understanding is why so much development effort and resourcing was put into creating this new system that is disrupting your whole user base rather than addressing where things were missing that users have actively been requesting for ages - access to Tips and Notes from mobile apps for example, and overall consistency of features between platforms.

        And I don't understand why the new system abandons features that actively helped people to learn, like the word lists. The OP says they might consider bringing them back someday, but does not give any reasoning why they were dropped. If it's a question of technical issues (more content making it more complex to generate the lists?) then just say so. But just being like "we get that you liked it but we just took it away, sorry" is baffling to me. I get that you believe the new system will get people to use the app more, but are they still learning as effectively as they did before? While I'm not an expert in applied linguistics I have done some intro-level study of the principles, and very little about this change makes any sense to me either from a user-retention standpoint or a language-learning standpoint.

        I sincerely hope to be proven wrong as I start really using the new crown levels. I'm going to give them an honest try. But...as it is, the way I'm feeling now, I'll probably wind up cancelling my plus subscription and looking more closely at what other sites and apps have to offer.

        April 9, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wdtpw

        Why would you get rid of spaced repetition, when it's a scientifically proven way of learning a language?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition

        Giving out reminders to carry out exercises before they are forgotten was Duolingo's killer feature.

        April 11, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DuoIsDead

        Yes it seems so wierd they have all these effective, proven and well implemented tools already out there and just get rid of them, not even behind a paywall but just straight up gut it... To me this feels a lot like the (oversimplification) you hear about pharma industry "Finding a cure doesn't make any money, selling drugs does". To me this update seems more focussed on having people spend more time on the site despite actually learning stuff. They want to get more add impressions, more fake 'achievements' to keep you invested and not actually have you learn the language to a point where you might no longer want to use the site.

        I get that there is the Hawthorne effect might skew A/B tests with existing users or that users were simply obssesive trying to 'reflect' their original skill level with the new crowns thereby skewing the percieved effictiveness. But it seems so much logical thought was thrown out the window by just replacing the old system, they could have integrated crowns into the existing decay, slowly rolled it out for skills as better gradual difficulty material became available. Instead they got rid of a ton of essential learning features and turned all the skill levels in a grind of repetitive or identical exercises disjunct from their users skill level in a vast amount of skills for a vast amount of languages.

        I think this system might be OK for a new product/new users but its incredibly disruptive to people who already rely on DuoLingo as a tool to learn. If I just want to be entertained by language instead of focussing on learning it I could just watch subtitled documentaries, movies or cartoons in those languages and actually learn something about their culture as well as the language while primarily having fun. DuoLingo's gamification is nice till a certain extent to keep you that little bit more invested but if it starts losing its primary learning focus it loses its raison d'etre.

        April 15, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fitt3
        • 1354

        Not being able to pick an exact exercise really bugs me :((((((((

        But I guess it's good for someone who is just starting to learn a language

        March 28, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hermesianax

        So you were doing specific lesson reviews before instead of skill reviews? Why?

        March 29, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tusiperu

        I do the same: skill reviews are not reinforcing words with less than 2 bars force. So I was repeating the same exercices and the same words over and over. Then I tried to redo the lessons with the low strength words. Not to practice, but to redo. That works better for me. With no improvement in algorithm (script? whatever?), the dead words problem it's going to be a big issue. With no posibility of picking exercices but to "reviews" or "more difficult level", how I am going to reinforce dead words?

        Even if now I'm doing that, I still need more motivation to go to level 25 since my trees are being gold for ages (or with two or three skills with 4 bars) and I feel tired. I think maybe crowns could do the trick (I don't have it yet). But the cons are a lot and I'm starting to be afraid of it.

        Cell phone "pick words" exercise it's not good. Too easy, too "gamification" for me. Even languages I don't really speak (like catalán) are easy to do with "pick words" exercises. It's a shame they think it was a good idea to put it in web page.

        I think they do an A/B test with new learners but old learners have other needs, so test is not a good way to test new systems to put it in new learners and let old learners untill the end.

        April 2, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fitt3
        • 1354

        What is skill reviews?

        March 29, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hermesianax

        In the old system, you could strengthen a specific skill. I'm not really sure what you meant with "to pick an exact exercise". Do you mean lessons or skills in the old system?

        March 30, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fitt3
        • 1354

        Im slow, so please be patient.

        Yeah, so you have a lesson and then in a lesson you have exercises. So some exercises in the lesson/s I re-do, to maintain the vocabulary and some skip because I think I don't need those words(in old system).

        But in new system that's not quite possible, which sucks for me, but its good for someone who is just starting the ""process""

        March 30, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

        What about gold, platinum and diamond for your levels of decay once you get to level 5 with crowns?

        March 29, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Effie36

        First of all, I want to thank you for all the hard work and the thought you've put into updating duolingo. All the changes and the new additions seem promising, and I am looking forward to making the most out of them. However, please bring back the option to redo lessons. While practising is essential to learning and remembering words, sometimes I need to quickly redo a lesson before I practice it. Another thing is that the practice shows words from all the lessons, so if I want to work on a set of words from a specific lesson, I can't simply go back to that lesson and review those words like I used to, now I have to practice and practice hoping to randomly come across those words. (It's actually a good thing, but still, it's annoying...) And like others have commented before me, a list of words before each lesson (besides the tips) would be great, they were really helpful. So again, I am all for the new Crown system, it's awesome, and I think it would be even more awesome if you add those things that to me were very helpful to learning new languages.

        March 29, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Froosje

        I don't like it at all. I used to try and keep all my trees yellow. I could see in one glance what needed extra attention. Now I am totally lost.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamieBamie05

        The gold that you got after you strengthened a lesson was rewarding. It got me motivated to keep moving on to the next lesson, instead, now I feel like I need to keep practicing that one lesson until I made it to the last crown level, and then I don't feel very rewarded when I finally do get the gold. It's very aggravating! Also since the gold doesn't decay after you get it, it feels like I don't have to keep practicing that lesson. Before we were able to practice a lesson, get the gold, and the next couple of days or so the lesson would be colorful again, and I would strengthen it again. It helped me remember all the words that I learned before, and helped me remember that I still had to practice all the lessons, that I've completed, that way I don't forget anything that I've learned in the previous lesson.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sedlacek_m

        100% with you on that. I’m definitely not learning anything atm....

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartiniqueAsha

        Ok I don't care how nicely you try to word it, I have lost ALL of my progress. Imagine working for months to complete a tree and have it completely gold only to have it all destroyed in the blink of an eye. This is beyond effed up not everyone is looking to move to France and converse with the locals. This change is so disheartening. I was almost there and then you moved the finish line. Its like a kick in the teeth.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shay307954

        Is there any way to get the old system back? This new system is really destroying my progress. I used to be able to revisit lessons and go over them until I really understood the lesson. I'm on prepositions at the moment and I'm just being asked to translate things I don't have a clue about. Its infuriating

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sedlacek_m

        YES! Thank you! I’m in the exact same place! It’s infuriating that something that’s supposed to be teaching oh a language in a “fun” manner is now hard, pointless work that results in zero actual learning...

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tusiperu

        I thought I was going to feel motivated with the change. But now that I have it, i'm not. It's like I'm doing paperwork dayly to clean the table and one day my boss tells me that I have to clean all the paperwork in the basement. Yeah, no one is asking to do it all in one day, but I really feel overwhelmed.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kangaroolotty

        so have you worked it out from the over 500 comments that people do not like this? Please reintroduce being able to test out on skills for a start.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Paris-Syngelakis

        about levelling up: in some skills such as ABC in Greek for example I'm already that good that I'd like to test out to directly go to level 5. Unfortunately that is impossible. I want the test out button back!

        I'd also like to have the ability to see the vocabulary list of a whole skill. But in the Greek course there are no vocabulary lists at all!

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Adrenallen

        This crowns thing is annoying and I don't feel like I'm making progress anymore. It would be nice to be able to switch to the version that you personally find more engaging.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JavierAdor

        Can the decay be an optional thing? I personally found it really useful in keeping me coming back to the app when i finished my tree. I would pop in my head and see my beautiful golden tree was no longer gold, then immediately feel the need to go back and fix it. This became an enjoyable daily habit that I would be sad to see leave. I understand it may be confusing for new players but by having it optional, those players who have already finished their tree and want to keep practicing will have a mental incentive to do so. Gold keeps us coming back once we have seen it all. It has made my time on duolingo so enjoyable to watch as my little tree returned to it'ts golden state.

        April 6, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnnaMayBates

        I was curious about this new system for days and then I got it this morning... and yeah, I'm disappointed. I have been maintaining my golden Spanish tree, so I was hoping that at least some of my skills would be converted to crown level 5... and nope. I even used to practice skills that were still gold just because I felt like I needed it. But I don't get to make that choice anymore unless I make all the skills gold again, i.e. get to crown level 5 on each.

        Basically, the crowns are the lessons presented differently... however that only works if there is enough content, i.e. enough lessons per skill. For early skills like Basics, if the skill was golden at the time of the system change, they ought to have been automatically level 5 with the option to practice. No new lesson was added to them. I know I could just ignore them and do the skills I feel I need but, I need my tree glided again or it's gonna bother me. And still, I have to repeat the same phrases over and over again to get to the actual "practice" of a skill...

        I'm an iOS user, so I still have that horrible Health system on the app that locks me out if I make 5 mistakes (often typos) in a new lesson. Thus, I've been using the desktop for new lessons in my other languages and then just do practice on the app. Now trying to get crown level 5s, I have use the desktop to avoid the Health system in trees I've already originally completed, as is still treating Levels 2-5 as new lessons (when they definitely are NOT in the early skills; I cannot attest for the latter, but I'm sure with some languages with less developed trees, it's just more repetition) and not practice even on the first skill sets.

        This might work for the casual user, and I can see that skills not decaying being nice for my completionist side (although it's gonna take a long time and be to repetitive), but I also know it's not good for SRS and my daily motivation and general language upkeep.

        (and please get rid of the health system. I was hoping it would be gone at this point and yet...)

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FarukAkbar

        The most important thing for learning a language is practicing and reviewing. With this new system, I am no longer able to know which skills I need to practice, Now I have to robustly practice every single skill without knowing do I really need to practice which. This is a complete failure for practicing and reviewing.

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/szabeszg

        @Duolingo team: So you rolled out a half baked system? How stupid is that?

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/applefoodie

        I have to say my biggest disappointment with the changes is the loss of the word lists. In the past, it was very handy for me to look at the individual lessons within a particular skill and break down the vocabulary lists into manageable chunks. It was also how I created vocabulary lists for me to jot down onto flash cards or other memorization aids. And I could also glance through the word lists and quickly figure out which words I needed to practice more. But all of that is gone, and there's no easy way for me to see which new vocabulary words are presented in each lesson. This is going to make vocabulary building much more difficult.

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dgivney

        I also want to be super transparent here: Crowns feature sucks.

        You didn't give me enough information before forcing this on me and the feature is so half-baked it should not have been released. This rollout was careless and may be see me go elsewhere.

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lottie721595

        Also, why has my tree suddenly been filled with exercises I was doing a year ago and are so simple it's infuriating. If after a year you don't think I have progressed more than translating 'The men are calm' this is pointless. I was almost at level 23!

        April 7, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AngeCI
        • 1151

        I think some basic skills can immediately go to level 4 or 5 if you go far enough. No one would want to practice the basics for more than 40 times without any variations. Also, there should be a "test out" option.

        April 7, 2018

        [deactivated user]

          I don't need to do basics 50 times to get to level 5. They better hurry up with that test out option.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samsamc1

          I actually really like the idea of the Crown system. I think it's awesome that the lessons increase in difficulty the more you repeat a certain skill.

          However, I think there are some major issues with the update which are really putting me off continuing with this app:

          1) Skills no longer decay. Previously, I would practice any skills which had lost their gold status before learning new content. This was great for guiding me to practice the words which I had not practiced in a long time, helping to reinforce them in my memory. Now I have no way of seeing which skills I ought to re-do.

          2) The strengthen lessons (the Dumbell icon) feel useless now. Although they will allow me to practice words which I am weak on, these lessons do not count towards advancing crown levels for particular skills. (Compare this to the previous way in which completing Dumbell lessons would re-gild skills which had lost their gold status, allowing me to visualise my progress.)

          3) The number of repetitions required to reach Crown Levels 4 or 5 and access the more difficult exercises is ridiculous. It is tedious and repetitive to have to do 20 or even 30 lessons of the same skill just to level it up so I can access the more difficult questions. There should either be fewer lessons required to level up, or a "test out" feature which allows you to automatically level up based on your proficiency in that skill.

          4) The word previews for each lesson are gone. I used to use these to teach myself the definitions and genders of the new nouns I would be learning before jumping into the lessons. Now I can no longer do this. Also, sometimes I want to practice a particular word, but now I cannot find the specific lesson containing that word.

          5) I personally do not care too much about the aesthetics of having my entire language tree turn gold. However, I know for a lot of people that this was a huge motivator for them to keep practicing, so I can understand their disappointment. I can also see why veteran players are upset, given that they have invested a lot of time into gilding all of their skills but have now lost it all.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

          " I think it's awesome that the lessons increase in difficulty" But actually, they don't!

          May 16, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-.Andrew.-

          Yes, we already know that.

          All they do is that as you increase your crown level in a skill, you have to complete more and more translations/lessons.

          May 16, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/plesio_saurus

          I hate this

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Libertydoc

          Boring! I started with crowns in the basic level today. "I am a boy, you are a girl, I am a man, you are a woman. Yes I am a boy. No I am a boy. You are a girl and I am a boy, ...etc. over and over and over. No way will I ever go back to level that up and get another crown. We'll see what the future offers. My first take is I'm disappointed as I was asked if I would like to try something and find I now can't get rid of it.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmalieB39

          Like many other users who didn't choose to switch to the Crown system, I was involuntarily switched yesterday. Some aspects look promising; but removing Timed Practice until Level 5 has been reached is counterproductive, since it takes an unbelievable amount of work to move through the levels. Timed Practice shouldn't be a reward. It should remain an option for all users at any level in any skill.

          I was also puzzled to find that the earlier skills were all set at one crown on my tree, while the later skills which I haven't mastered as well have two crowns. I do peek frequently, before submitting an answer, so I can learn all the suggested translations for a word better; maybe that's why my crown level is so low. But it's a learning method that works well for me.

          I agree with many others. I appreciate Duolingo and all the effort that goes into providing it, but I wish the company used verbal feedback from users rather than "metrics" to make changes. Metrics don't explain why users do certain things.

          I don't like losing options that help me to learn better. It feels like I'm being penalized for not learning well in what Duolingo considers the "right" way.

          Feeling frustrated...and I really don't like complaining about a free resource. Trying to be positive about the changes and hoping that the crown system will be improved so that learning really is optimized.

          EDIT after looking at my tree this morning: now all skills have only one crown, except for the one skill I focused on yesterday, which now has three crowns. Three crowns for one day's work?!!! Duolingo, do you really think I'm going to retain that learning, long-term? And why did skills with two crowns yesterday drop to one today? Definitely confused about this new system! Hope there are just glitches that will be straightened out soon. My motivation to WANT to do Duolingo has plummeted.

          EDIT #2 Now I understand why people are frustrated that they can't select particular lessons to review in past skills. We're now stuck with progressing via lessons straight through to five crowns, whether we've learned the simpler material or not; some (or maybe lots) of us need to be able to review weak areas often and not be pushed to move forward relentlessly.

          No more Duolingo practice today for me. I need an attitude adjustment before I try to continue. Right now, I'm too frustrated.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmalieB39

          After almost a week on the Crown system and many, many hours wasted trying to figure out how to best use it by scouring the forums, I can now continue learning in Duolingo.

          But why doesn't Duolingo just provide the timed practice at all levels as previously, rather than users having to access it before Crown Level 5 by changing the URL and going to another page? At least I was pleasantly surprised that Duo still credits the XPs earned in doing timed practice.

          I just discovered official Duo Tiny Cards decks for skills. Kudos for that! Now I can review vocabulary (although I'm finding a few errors in the cards, which will hopefully be corrected soon). I hated trying to make my own decks and had given up on Tiny Cards. It would be great if a Tiny Cards tab could be added to the regular Duolingo website, for easier access.

          So - I'm sure the Crown system was implemented for good reasons. I just wish those reasons were evident now and of benefit to long-time users. Having to work around the system to do what I need to, in order to learn, is frustrating, when the options used to be so easily accessible.

          Still disgruntled, but at least I don't have to leave Duolingo - which has, until the changes that caused readability issues and the new Crown system confusion, been a fabulous learning tool. Hoping to see improvements very soon.

          April 13, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/markg76

          You know when a design change process has gone bad, when people start doing javascript hacks to reverse your changes or when they resort to unofficial sites (duolingo.eu) to work around your design choices.

          I have yet to understand why Duolingo is killing spaced repetition when it has been a core feature since the start and a common method for learning. The FAQ answer of "we are going to find a way to do it" is simply inexcusable. It would be extremely easy to offer both methods, old decaying tree and the new one, especially on the desktop where there are no space layout issues. The fact that an option is not given is only showing that there is no "solution" that is coming soon.

          For people looking for a work around, you can a) go to your profile at duolingo.eu , for example https://duolingo.eu/markg76/progress/ to see which skills need strengthening b) click on the name of the skill, for example https://www.duolingo.com/skill/fr/Economics c) add "practice" at the end of the address like this https://www.duolingo.com/skill/fr/Economics/practice This also gives access to timed practice!

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisa454630

          Mark you’re an absolute god send! Thank you so much for your post. I have a iPhone and was screwed! As much as I’d prefer the app to revert back to normal, I’ll happily take your way. Thank you again Mark, really appreciate your work.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hhisa

          Undecaying skills make no sense. Thatʼs not how memory works. “Learning” is not really the hard part. Remembering is.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MzMolly65

          Happy Learning my backside!! I am being pushed right back to the beginning as if I am a brand new member. You don't take a student from grade 4 or 5 and put them back to kindergarten. That's just asking for people to quit. I am more frustrated and disheartened now than I ever have been during my lessons. BOO THIS!!

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeasaurusRex

          The Crowns upgrade is terrible. It actually makes me NOT want to learn anymore - so if that was your goal, way to go Duolingo. I’m a premium subscriber who used to be fluent in French and was refreshing my skills, and no way would I prefer this system over your old one. I bought the old app, not this crappy new one. Wishing I could get a refund.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charles215113

          If you want to get a refund, ask for one. There are other subscribers here in the same situation and they are asking for refunds too! Maybe the best way to influence their opinion is to hit them in the pocket...

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/8ung3st

          Spaced repetition was a big reason I loved duolingo. Skill decay represented an accurate model of how language learning actually works. Instead of keeping this core strength you have A/B tested your way to giving the people what they want: The illusion of learning, the comfortable feeling that they will never lose what they once learned.

          It might get you results in the short term, but I think you might lose out long term as people start realizing that duolingo has become a less effective tool for acquiring actual language proficiency.

          I'm very sad that you did this.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nyarlath

          Totally agree. I sincerely wonder how could the A/B testers have given any positive feedback to such a degraded system.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BobbySweetkitty

          PLEASE GIVE US THE OPTION TO SWITCH BACK.

          This is such a disheartening disaster of a move. The way Duolingo was helped me to learn italian and speak it. on days that are busy, I just went to Duolingo and did the ones that needing upkeep. Now I’ve got to answer ‘the boy eats an apple’ 45 times before that skill is off the plate? I totally hate this crown system..

          PLEASE GIVE US THE OPTION TO SWITCH BACK.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carolynn357728

          I feel I may be paradoxically rewarding the new crown business model. Since crowns appeared yesterday I have spent more time on the site...wrong message... Not because I like it but because I am trying to bring the balance of my Italian up to level 3. I feel cheated on my French. They were all 3s but I have over 56500 XP French points {level 25} and only 26000+ Italian points {just shy of level 25}. The upshot is I am repeating lesson after lesson of the same old stuff. When I do strengthening with time practice, I can't notice any crowns advancing. I can't quite make sense of it.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

          I did that too. I wanted to see if there really were more challenging material as you level up. There is not! I actually did almost 500 XP in one day. Duo: it is not because I was liking the new Crowns, I did it because hate it.

          May 16, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ngarrang

          The new idea seems interesting, but half-baked. Do you seriously expect someone that has completed a language tree and has kept it completed for a year or more to go back to the very skill and repeat 'I am a boy, you are a girl' a million times to get it to five crowns? That is NOT learning, that is stupidity. When you folks assigned the initial crown levels, there really needed to be a lot more forethought about the level of the skill lesson itself and how long the lesson has been completed.

          My Spanish skill is already at level 25, so XP is of little concern to me at this point. I will still do three to five lessons a day as a warm-up before diving into El Pais and YouTube videos, but I will be ignoring this silly crown system. I have zero interest in repeating "La nina come una manzana" enough times to get the first Spanish skill to 5 crowns.

          Goodbye to the fluency meter, though.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sleightlysubtle

          Please add me to the list of Crown-haters.

          It's always a mistake to introduce a major change, call it an improvement, and not give users a choice.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ngarrang

          The fanbois will simply say that it is a free product, so take what you get. Despite the fact that this update is stupid and ineffective. Ooooh! I can be level 5 at saying, "Yo soy una manzana"! Yippee. Stupid update is stupid. This beats the change in Dutch voices that went from one that could be clearly heard to one where the male speaker sounded he was chewing on gravel.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nanode

          I am severely disappointed with this update.

          I bought plus (for a full year) around a few weeks ago, and I've been loving the old progression system in the JP course. This new system is god awful, and legitimately made me disinterested in learning the language, at least on your platform.

          You may have my $90, but you aren't getting any more money or ad revenue from me until you at least give us an option to revert back.

          For now, I'm going to use Memrise, and I suggest everyone else does too. Vote with your wallets.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rredfearn32

          "There are no plans to make skill progress decay over time. Once you earn a crown, you get to keep it! This actually reduced a lot of confusion from learners who felt they lost progress when their skills decayed."

          ^ This is my biggest problems with the crowns update. Your knowledge DOES decay over time, that's the whole point of spaced repetition! I know some users studying courses that teach alphabets/etc are being made to redo beginner lessons all the time, but the German course doesn't do that. Isn't that just a problem with the individual courses, not the DL system?

          Imo, crowns does not reflect how memory works. If you spend a few hours maxing out a unit, you are not going to remember it forever - well, I'm not going to at least. But without the decay, how do we know when we should go back and review things?

          And I know I can manually review lessons, and see which individual words are decayed, but that's vastly inferior to DLs previous system.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/katiusha17

          Just a bit more feedback - I have been using Duolingo for over a year now, Dutch and German, and am very grateful for the wonderful learning opportunity. However, after a few days of ploughing through the new Crowns system, I have to say that I am frustrated and bored and am not sure I will be able to continue.

          The new system seems VERY "low data rate", tedious and just not fun anymore. It takes way too long to get to another crown level, the exercises are now extremely dumbed down and repetitive; I have no feeling of gaining in either actual skills or in "brownie points". Now it takes a tremendous effort, 200-300 XP worth of mindless exercises to even get back to slightly more challenging exercises. Even still, there doesn't seem to be very much difference between a 2-Crown and a 3-Crown exercise set, most of the sentences repeat practically verbatim between the levels. For those sections where mysteriously I was placed at level 0 (even though I made the whole tree golden a few months ago), I just can't imagine going through an infinite number of four and five word sentences just to get back to something mildly challenging (compared to the ones I had just a couple of weeks ago.)

          Sorry for the long whine - just so disappointed;(

          Some concrete suggestions: 1.) Allow a Test Out or Review Progress Test that would recalibrate your crown level for all exercises. This could be metered out so you could only do it once a month, for example, or you could be asked to pay lingots for it.

          Though I'm sure the automatic placement process that exhaustively reviewed every exercise you ever did to convert you to crowns was thorough, it can't take into account all the times you flew sloppily through exercises, typed in English instead of Dutch, or had actual stupid typos.. It is definitely not doing a great job of measuring how challenging your new levels are.

          2.) Allow a user to go ahead and try out the most difficult level of exercises (Crown 5) even if they have not progressed stepwise to that level yet.

          1. Don't re-use so many sentences between exercises, especially between crown levels.
          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yanina912107

          The biggest downside of the crowns system is that they make the learning process boring, boring, boring. There are only so many times you can type the same thing over and over again before you give up and quit.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LaurianaB

          Thank you all for the work put in to bring about this improvement!

          March 28, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Victor_Donjuan

          I have one recommendation and one question. R: I really suggest that with the new system you should unlock the maximum level of 25. It seems that the new system gives a ton of exp points. I'm a new user and got right away the crown system on the Android app (22 days according to my streak and I'm already level 18). I don't think it will take much time to me to get level 25 in the next week, which seems different for users without the new system I think. Q: Why I have the crown system on my android phone but the old system in the web version? Is this a bug or is normal?

          March 28, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

          Yes, it seems that would be important to do. It might make older users happy to see they have somewhere to go level wise.

          March 29, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Izim_M
          • 1545

          Could you describe how much XP you gain in the Crown system? In the old system you'd get about 1 XP for a correctly answered question (if you did timed practice), how does that work now?

          March 28, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Victor_Donjuan

          I wasn't referring to the timed practice though. In the old system you get 15xp each time you complete a NEW lesson (if you make no mistakes), however there were very few new lessons available. In the crown system, you get 50-80 new lessons per skill (though some exercises are repeated as someone above noted). Which means with all these new lessons available you also earn a lot of xp.

          March 29, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mereade

          I am looking forward to trying the crowns out, it looks like the new systems might be fixing some of the issues with Duolingo. But only if the levels 4 and 5 are really harder, if there is more practice involved. But I am curious, whether it will be possible to test out of the course more easily, for the advanced learners? I have a few courses open for languages I am already advanced in (some out of curiousity, or to know what to recommend my friends. one of the courses is my native language) and it takes ages to test out and get to either the end (so that I don't look like I don't know my native language) or to finally get to the interesting stuff.

          So, is there a less time consuming testing out option than three or four group tests and then testing out of each skill individually? Or a fast way to test right into the level 4 or 5, even though noone was placed there just based on the results under the previous system?

          March 29, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

          Funny thing-- there really is no level 5. You finish level 4 and then you are at level 5 but there are no exercises to it. It's just, you finished level 4!

          May 16, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miss_Pasko

          It is like a baby - we count the first year as 0 (zero), then when it reaches the first birthday, it turns 1 (one). So when one turns 50, you have actually finished 50 years.

          And crowns is the same - one works through level 1 (showing purple and zero) and then receives the blue and number 1 at the end.

          But centuries work the opposite - there was no Year Zero, so the first century ended at the end of Year 100, and the first day of the 21st century was 1 January 2001!

          ;-)

          May 17, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

          When you start you a language, you should do a placement test. Hopefully that will help.

          March 31, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mereade

          Of course I knew of this obvious thing, I was asking because this miraculous solution doesn't solve what I am asking about at all:

          1.the placement test still doesn't lead to the whole tree (I tried with my native language), so I am curious how it will deal with the levels. Will it put people even to levels 4 and 5? As was said in this thread, there are many learners who have very good knowledge of some chapters before starting and little of others and the placement test isn't sensitive enough to detect that.

          2.It still doesn't solve the main issue: there is not test out of the end or at least of half the last bunch of skills. And other than that, testing out of skills individually takes a long time. I think the ideal would be an option to manually choose which skills I want to try to test out of.

          3.testing out of stuff through whichever path, will it lead to any level or just the low ones?

          March 31, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

          Sorry! There is no testing out during the crown system. Yes, I am disappointed with that also. You cannot test out of each skill set of lessons.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

          I am frustrated with this too!

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klgregonis

          I'm anxiously tapping my fingers until I get the crowns. Not so much for the new way of encouraging my learning, I've been through a couple of iterations already, but for the more difficult sentences. I will miss the decay feature, since I use that to determine what I need to practice and find it quite helpful, but it seems like you're looking for a way to incorporate something similar, eventually. Love this program, hope Luis and the team can continue to keep it free.

          March 29, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Notknowy

          The topic was somehow tackled on by previous comments, but there were a little menus with tips for each of the skills. And I know that those are now accessed by the bulb button, but there are some which do not have them. It is most probably due to a lack of said tips, but still each lesson had boxes, which showed what new words were to be learnt in the lesson, it was quite a help to prepare for the lesson vocabulary beforehand. And since not only those skills which lacked tips had them, it's now quite a inconvenience for me. It would help if you made a mini-dictionairy at the end of each tips for a skill by extracting those words from the, now not available, boxes.

          March 29, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tiramisues

          I miss the same vocab list. To still access it I made my own classroom under https://schools.duolingo.com/ Once you made a classroom you can find the words for each lesson under "curriculum".

          March 29, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Notknowy

          Nice, though it would probably be patched in the near future, so it's best to inform staff about inconvenience rather than be satisfied with temporal fixes.

          March 30, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/karolineczka...

          Can I still test out of one skill somehow? That sometimes helps, eg. testing out of "Numbers" because I learnt them earlier...

          March 29, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LilliBeeley

          My main issue with this update is that although they say you don’t loose progress through the update I have definitely lost progress and this is mainly because the layout of the levels has changed. This is annoying because although I like the idea of the crowns and I do believe that they are a good thing the fact that my app was just updated and I received no email to say my app was getting an update or any notice of this definitely feels like my usage of the app has been effected as I had not heard anything about the fact that the update was happening because it feels like this new update makes you loose lives more quickly which means you have to practice to gain them back but now the practice has no effect on your progress on the levels so it feels like a waste of time doing the practice when it is extremely necessary if you want to practice at all!!!

          March 30, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

          I have received an email, so they are sending them now. You practice better by redoing the lessons in this system.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Machyc

          I really loved the orange coloring of skill when I finnished one. After that, I was waiting when it go off orange coloring and makes me do "STRENGHTEN". Now I have to wait to skill level 5 and it is very unmotivating. There are so much lessons and practising that I cannot choose between them what should I pick and practice! My suggest: Give it back but with crowns! After finnish level 1 it should go orange and in some time it should go orange off and it should makes me STRENGHTEN. And with this STRENGHTEN i can reach to level 5. This would be very motivating for me. Please, consider it!

          April 3, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TrapperJohnG

          I really enjoy using Duolingo, however... Two major criticisms with the new system: -I can find no way to regain health by reviewing former lessons. -Although I do my required number of lessons, I do not receive XP for them. I will finish a lesson to find that the XP meter has returned to zero. I have to keep buying Streak Freezes in order to preserve my long streak. Both of these are very frustrating and may cause me to ultimately quit using this app.

          April 3, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/XavierPool1

          A display of the words learned in each lesson would be super helpful. I practice writing them and now I don't know where certain words are!? The system might only give you words that it thinks you "need" to practice but what if I want to practice certain words, its similar to pot luck now.

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisBramh

          I've just discovered that I've been migrated to Crowns. Even after reading the above explanation, I have no idea how to use it or where to start with the next lesson. That, combined with the endless repeats of the same ads (even after I use the options to flag them as "not interested" or "seen multiple times") has finally persuaded me to leave Duolingo after over 1000 days of usage. Congratulations Duolingo, you just lost a client and I will no longer suggest it as a usable tool for learning languages.

          With that goodbye and good riddance!!!

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kangaroolotty

          where is the test out option? I have been using it to revise languages I learned extensively at school, and I simply don't need to plough through all the exercises for all modules, so making me do so will just make me abandon duolingo for that purpose. the more general issue is why start messing around with something that isn't broken.

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr.Luster

          So this seams realy nice but for someone who started learnign japanese here befor 2 weeks and it is still on Hiragana this is kinda realy bad before I could easy repeat leason with characters that i still don't remember and now i need to go trough all of them just to come to get to those 2-3 i can't remember in that leason :(

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MasterYods

          I agree. We really need to be able to repeat the lesson with the Hiragana you just learnt, otherwise it just piles on and I can't remember anything.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juan922528

          What worries me about this post is that pointing out that you are aware of serious problems with the new system is not the same as actually addressing those problems. What we have right now is a very flawed and vastly inferior system to what had been in place. You can de-facto remove spaced repetition from Duolingo, but you cannot remove the parts of our brains that are wired to learn from spaced repetition, and you cannot insert something into our brains that will make us remember without needing spaced repetition. The crowns system is a rough idea, creating more problems and not solving any old ones in the process. It should be in testing, not rolled out to users. I will be uninstalling the app and simply using Anki from now on, as the app is no longer an effective use of time for me.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Spacegrrrl42

          Thanks for the heads up on a different software. I got this Crowns nonsense today & it's super frustrating. Think I'm going to uninstall.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HayloHusky

          "I can’t pick what lesson I want to do anymore. We want to give the right balance of choice and guidance, and we’re still tweaking that. So far, we haven’t been hearing complaints that content is too difficult; the feedback has been that difficulty is effortless and natural or that it’s too easy. Therefore, we aren’t concerned at this time that skills are advancing too quickly for learners."

          This is the one thing I valued, and it's been taken away and it "isn't a concern"? The one thing I valued was being able to individually do sections of each lesson, rather than be forced to move on when I'd completed a part of it. I'm in no way a fast learner, nor experienced in the language I'm learning. And when you're new, taking it slow can be very beneficial in retaining memory... But it seems that since I can't go and practice individual words and skills in the form of parts of lessons, I'm forced to move at a faster, more complicated pace which is way out both my skill level and comfort level... Why not just give people a choice regardless of whether you think its "guidance"?

          This is actually distressing me to the point of tears. I feel as if I can't move on now because of this crown business blocking my progress. :( All I want is to be able to go back and cement my learning before I move on to something new. But you've taken that away, and there appears to be no concern about that.

          Please allow me to choose skills and lessons and go back to them once I'd completed them... That's all I ask.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leastbest

          I’ve stopped using Duolingo. The crowns make no sense to me. Soon I’ll be deleting the app. It was nice while it lasted. Thanks. It got me partially there.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KomaGawa

          I am a big promoter of duolingo to my colleagues and students in Japan. I just wish I had found you guys when I was on fire to study Russian....now I am plodding along studying french for a trip to Africa this summer. I am actually a poor student at learning languages, and I don't particularly like doing this, but for some reason that is what I am spending a lot of my free time doing. I did feel a sense of accomplishment in the old system, So looking at my position in the new one, I am disoriented. I am not sure if I am still progressing or just treading water.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chrichrichi

          Duolingo Team - pls read your own FAQ - beyond the first paragraph you only write what the new system cannot do any more and all you say: we understand you miss this, unfortunately this is not possible or we might bring some of it back or not.

          The only positive thing you say: with this system you can introduce more difficult lessons for advanced users - guess what: I used this app for month and have an entire tree finished - now I do lessons I get much simpler tasks as this system does not reflect which words I am not good at - sometimes I get even total basics.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanyDin

          just put back the good old version, please!!!

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dempsas

          Okkay so I just got Crowns... I'm all for more content but I don't see how having me revisit German basics and pretty much everything above the final checkpoint is going to help me progress any more than the standard practice. I was extremely proud of my full gold german tree maintained by now a 500 day streak and you've taken that from me. :(

          I'm the kind of user the more difficult content is aimed at but now I feel I have to go and get the rest of the dam crowns back up the tree now.... RIP gold tree... its been a good streak.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisa454630

          There’s nothing exciting about the crowns, it’s utter crap and worse that you don’t give people a choice! If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John27805

          Your FAQ for "I lost all of my progress!" says:-

          "Don’t worry, you really didn’t. It may be surprising to find skills that were once gold are now colorful again, but all your lessons that were “completed” before are still completed.

          This is not what I see in practice. There are lessons that were completed (even recently completed) and strengthened that are now showing as Level 0 Completed 0.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vliegs

          Like 99% of commenters around the Internet, I strongly dislike the new Crowns Feature. But DuoLingo's biggest implementation disaster was limiting the starting level to 3 when switching to Crowns. If there was more advanced content for all subjects it might be ok. There is not. For users, who have been studying a language for years, completed and maintained golden trees multiple times through previous DuoLingo "resets", having to click through, type out or listen to "I ............. am .............. a .............. man" hundreds of times to get beginner level subjects back up to 5 is ridiculous and hugely demotivating. It also introduces bad data into the system. While trying to get through these "lessons" as quickly possible, people are highly likely to make unforced errors. Leaving the Crowns at 3 doesn't reflect the user's DuoLingo progress in the language.

          I don't like the Crowns Feature in languages I have less skill in, but in those at least the Crown Levels are a decent reflection of my progress. For languages I've been studying in DuoLingo for years, and now have been set back to 3 in basic subjects it is illogical and extremely frustrating. And as many have mentioned, will probably make many users with multi-year streaks give up on DuoLingo altogether.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nipredil

          You really should put test out back... loads of us use duolingo to freshen up an old language. I used to know everything duolingo teaches in spanish. I started learning again here, because I tried reading harry potter in spanish and while I understood most, I was mixing up the tenses. So I definitely won't go through 10 lessons of the spanish "present perfect" and wouldn't have even started if I had to go from the beginning. Testing topics 1 by 1 was a nice option to be faster than those who study spanish as a new language. I don't even understand why would you take that option out. It was an option that doesn't even hurt those who don't want to use it, but hurts those who can be faster. So thanks for changing for this system, now I don't know how will I get back my knowledge of the use of spanish tenses. And special thanks that you made the change without a warning, in the middle of my daily practice. Kinda feels like if you gave me a puppy and come back to kill it two weeks later.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/M.King-Rex

          WOW!
          I get to do REDO Lesson after Lesson typing easy boring stuff like "I am a woman" and "I am a boy" because the new system of Crowns chose to take away all my golden skills and institute the Crown Level. So 80 skills that I have so far are now all 1's, 2's, or 3's. I can spend weeks and weeks redoing before I ever learn a new brand new skill! Just Fantastic! Not like I have a job or other responsibilities as well as study.
          If you do not understand the foreign language of these comments - It is called Sarcasm!

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/seeker24418

          I have been using duolingo for 4 years now. We had our ups and downs, but lately I was feeling thrilled with the updates. They have finally added some new content to the french tree and I was doing the exercises eagerly waiting to see the new words and get my tree golden. It takes a really long time and a lot of repetition, but I was going with it. But this new update with crowns is just horrible and completely demotivational. I could not believe it happened! I have downloaded the previous version of the app to go back to the old system.I don't know how long that will last and if there will be any problems with the app without the updates. However, with this new crowns system I just don't see myself using the app. I will probably switch to other apps on Android if the creators will not at least allow the users an option to choose the system. Maybe this new system is good for new users but for people like me who have been using Duo for years it's just incredibly frustrating.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/esalesky

          You say during testing people were "using the app more, sticking around on Duolingo longer, completing more lessons, typing in their learning language more, and doing harder exercises."

          Most of those could be artifacts of the new system and not positive changes: people are practicing old lessons to get crowns and re-gild skills, which now takes more time, so they're on the app more but it's not productive time. I know this is true for me.

          Skeptical, but looking forward to the blog post.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WolkZayets

          I really hate the new Crown system, for the reasons you have described.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ColinLaticuf

          Add me to the list of people not happy with Crowns. I've been re-learning French for over two years. Now I have to go back and do fifty lessons of mind-numbing basics like "Je suis un homme" to fill in numbers on crown icons.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/blobfish201

          I don't like the crowns. Just yesterday I was able to pick what I wanted to learn, but now I'm put right into practice, even though I don't know what I'm supposed to click. GG Duolingo. Welp... Bye.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ali.8all

          Hello Duolingo Team,

          With the new 5 tiered crown level system, would Duolingo consider having each crown level be a separate colored circle on the tree? Gray= Not started, Green=1 Crown.....,...,..,... Gold= 5 Crowns? This way it would be easier to quickly look at which skills were weaker, and then the "all-gold" tree would still be achievable once level 5 was reached for each skill.

          I would love to see the work we do in "practice" (with the little barbell) have some type of positive effect on our crown levels. I like to use this feature as it directs me to what I need to practice. But I'd love to see it count towards leveling up a crown. Please consider the practice as a lesson, or portion of a lesson for each skill.

          Thanks for reading and considering my suggestions!

          Ali

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nicpero

          Not a fan of the new format. I had just worked my way through the tree before you changed it. I am finding the new exercises incredibly repetitive. REALLY. IT. IS. NOT. NECESSARY. TO. ASK. THE. EXACT. SAME. QUESTIONS. OVER. AND. OVER. AND. OVER. AGAIN!!! What a waste of time!!

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HannahR313

          I had crowns on my phone since February, and used that before switching to the site. I HATED constantly answer the same question as, surprise, it didn't teach me anything! It would be fine if it were a complicated sentence, but not sure what saying "oil and water" over and over is going to do for me!

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1Talmidah

          Sorry if someone else has already asked/commented about this - I haven't scrolled through all 900 comments, but what I have scrolled through seems to mainly be about the fluency meter, which I have never seen in the language I'm studying.

          Anyway, what I'm finding troublesome is the fact that we're supposed to be able to go "deeper" into a particular unit if we want, but I went through 12 lessons (or whatever they're called) to move from level 3 to level 4 and then through another 10 lessons (out of 20) and haven't learned anything new at all! It's all just the same few extremely simple sentences, with the same few words I learned before the crowns. How much further do I have to go before it gets deeper? Or do I misunderstand what "deeper" means??

          Perhaps, what you've seen as people sticking around longer and doing more lessons isn't because they like the crowns so much and are benefitting from it, but because they keep hoping that "maybe after this I'll finally get to something new"...but they don't. It's definitely much easier and faster to get through 50-100 xp "wading" through busy work than it is to complete a regular practice session or new lesson.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vivifie2

          Exactly. I keep hoping something new will appear. I've tried skipping around the tree. I've tried going deeper into a segment. If there really is something new at the end of all this it would take the patience of a saint to get to it.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

          I believe on the easy lessons that it is the way the sentence is presented that gets more “Difficult”. Boy, a boy, the boy, a boy and a girl, a boy and a girl eat, SO one word to phrases, to sentences. Pictures with words, Multiple choice or tiles, to type it yourself, listen to new language and type in that language..... All things we already had, but now the types of learning are given from easiest to hardest rather than completely randomly. Later there may be some new vocabulary.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1Talmidah

          Thanks for the insight - I hope you're right.

          April 15, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesPeppersalt

          I don't think taking away the ability to click on a lesson and see what will be covered in it was a wise choice. They gave a lot of important information to help people grasp the content. Whenever I studied Swahili I would read the words I'd be learning and the description of the lesson, and without that, I feel less prepared going into lessons.

          That being said, I didn't like that we can't test out of lessons anymore; I take this in conjunction with my Spanish and French classes/lessons, and it's tedious to have to completely cover lessons on something I already know. If I want to practice it, I will practice it. I understand that it's meant to reinforce the content, but I'm not a child who needs to be reminded to eat my vegetables (or in this case, study my Spanish). It feels as if we're not trusted to be able to complete lessons on our own, and it is frustrating to have this amount of control taken away from us, especially since we cannot opt out of the Crowns system.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leastbest

          Horrible. I am a man over and over. I know apple. Over and over.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Petrushak

          I realy miss the possibility to re-visit the sublessons. As if there is a lesson which originally had, let's say - 9 sublessons (verbs etc.) I would do this lesson for maybe a week. I would learn a new sublessons a day and revisit the one I've done the previous day + do some general revision. The next day, I will write down on a paper the words I still haven't remembered, ad some examples etc. Slow and steady as I am unable to memorise a big amount of words from the whole lesson in one go. Now that I don't have the option to revisit what I've done yesterday, it sucks. If it takes me a week to get back to a word I've "learned", I am never going to learn it. Not being able to pick the particular lesson is not about how difficult it is (as was explained in FAQ, that answer was completely off). It's about being able to choose your own way, your own pace of learning and it gave you an opportunity to re-visit things you've forgotten. This step took away the learners ability to decide for themselve, now they just have to follow the robot. If this feature stays "switched off" permanently, Duolingo would probably stop being the right tool for me very soon, which I feel very sorry about as I am a long-time user. It's not that interactive and playfull, but good old text book doesn't hide the previous lessons away from me...

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hanna958948

          I find duolingo now less stimulating: 20 times "la donna beve l'acqua" is, even if you are a beginner, not very challenging. I was at level 25 of Italian, but really, I got bored of it now Please give me back the old Duolingo......

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BobbySweetkitty

          Where is the official response to all this? And why do you completely swap out a functional system that people have been relying on for years with staments like, “this is one of our biggest criticisms” of the new system we’re forcing you into. What’s the point of putting out a flawed system that demoralizes a massive portion of your user base? And what’s the point of all this radio silence ? People are upset here. Make an official response already.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miss_Pasko

          I notice a fair few comments by users who have no streak flame - indicating they have left the site. I have been paying out lingots and likes to as many of the messages on this discussion thread as I can to show my support - time I should be spending doing lessons, of course.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkBaker7

          OK, I read over the FAQs, but I still think this was a bad decision Duolingo. It seems that what you forgot in making the change was how people motivate themselves to learn. They need to feel they are accomplishing something along the way, and by removing the gold, you took that away. It is also ridiculous to have so many exercises for the most basic skills. Why would an experienced language user want to go back and practice "I am a girl" 20 more times? What is to be learned from doing that? And for my children, you removed their few completed accomplishments, making them feel like they have to start all over again. Sorry, but it was bad decision, which has only encouraged me to try other language software (I currently have a 498 streak with duolingo, but I may not even bother with getting to 500 now). Just a terrible decision. Maybe you all need a serious re-think?

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TomHarte

          Could be worse: Duolingo's grossly incompetent roll-out of crowns has had two effects on my account:

          1) all recollection of completed lessons has vanished — and I had completed everything for my favourite language — though the entire lesson list remains open to me, I've apparently completed zero of them;

          2) practice no longer works. Or, rather, it shows me a bunch of questions, I answer, it tells me I got 10 points. It then immediately forgets. I had an almost 900-day streak. I now have a zero day streak because the server simply declined to record any of my practices for a week or more, before I figured out what was going on.

          That they have paying customers nowadays but still apparently can't handle even the most trivial of database migrations doesn't bode well.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/territech

          Tom, it must be incredibly demoralizing to lose a 900-day streak due to a technical problem. My sincere condolences.

          I did not lose my streak during the transition, and the practice button at the bottom of the page clearly updates (and retains) my XP. There must be a problem with your particular account. By any chance did you change time zones, or did your WIFI change time zones? If you finished after midnight in your original time zone where you first created your account, that might cause your work to not count for that day and restart your streak. Also, to avoid losing a streak due to Internet issues, I always keep a streak freeze in effect.

          Maybe they can help you if you report a technical problem here: https://support.duolingo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204728264-How-do-I-report-a-bug

          I sure wish you better luck next time.

          April 14, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ziolkowski420

          Well, I bought a freeze recently. On my mobile. Didn't work. Somehow the system didn't equip me.

          April 14, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tar2014

          Repeating an exercise as many times as i like should be possible like before. This is essential.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BlakeCH77

          Well, I really can't use DuoLingo any more...I was going through the languages I know somewhat, finding places where I'm weak and strengthening those areas. It was working really well. Now I can't make further progress through the tree unless I perform endless repetitions of basic material that I already know. I don't have time to do this, and I can no longer test out of familiar material. The new system may be great if you are just beginning a language, but as many, many people have pointed out, it is deadly if you already have some skill. I'll revisit DuoLingo later and see if you guys have worked out a system that's useful for everyone.

          I might still use it for Chinese -- that was the language I was coming in on the ground floor.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/juldee

          "[...] learners using the app more, sticking around on Duolingo longer, completing more lessons, [...]"

          maybe that's because they were trying to get back to their learning level by doing a lot of the boring basic repetitions which the crown system seems to force?

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KellyShand

          exactly!

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/juldee

          yep. since the crowns i spent more time while learning less.

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaxineSamphire

          Sorry, but I hate this new system. I'm at level 20 in Spanish, I have invested in duolingo plus, and I was perfectly satisfied with the way things were working--now I don't know where I am in my lessons, and I don't seem to get anywhere. I am so disappointed.

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ResonantFlux

          The old system allowed users both the choice, but also feedback of what lessons are 'fresh', and recently practiced. You keep saying how you've given users more choice, but there's no feedback, the number on the crown solves a 'problem' you introduced, and just causes another.

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Iv4etooo

          This "crowns" thing is annoying. Making me redo simple exercises 100 times only demotivates me. The number of crowns means completely nothing to me. I was so motivated lately to make the tree all golden and now I think I want more to leave the app and do something else. Trying to make a gold skill make me angry and nervous now. Also, it would be nice to see some percentage as it was before, no matter how accurate. I feel like what I was gained has all gone.

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IverNoir

          Where is that giant thread "PLEASE give us the option to opt-out of crowns" that was upvoted like 400 times? It was here yesterday and now I can't seem to find it anywhere at all. Deleted by "bosses" maybe? I'm eagerly waiting for the answer of mentioned "bosses" about changes to this heretic Crown system though, my subscription - as my friends' - depends on it...

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

          In the old system, strengthen skills will golden your tree as you work through it. You can level up with it too. I don't understand why you can't when you can earn XP with it unless that changes. The new system doesn't do that tho?

          March 29, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zekecoma

          Probably because they didn't think it through when coming up with the new system.

          March 29, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

          Crown levels are different from user xp levels. You can go through the tree and bring every skill up to level 1. Then you go through the tree and bring every skill up to level 2. There are 5 Crown levels. When you complete level 5, then you can have your timed practice back and your skills will all be gold. Unfortunately, you must do each skill so very many times so it is much more than doing the tree 5 times. I bet we were already doing those skills at least as many times over the years, but looking at all those ungilded skills many feel overwhelmed.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/szabeszg

          "Crown level" is just a dead simple counter, counting how many times one has gone through the very same "skill". Now they want us to re-do each skill so many times just to get back the timed practice feature that the whole thing has become pointless and boring. Also, spaced repetition is basically gone. They have not yet removed it but you either have to use and old app version on Android/iOS or check your progress here: https://duolingo.eu/[yourusername]/progress/ This situation is ridiculous! Shame on you Duolingo!

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisa454630

          Shame indeed! Ultimately, it’s a gimmick to make you spend money to progress further. It’s an absolute disgrace! I honestly really enjoyed learning as I pleased, to go back over the lessons I needed to to make sure I memorised enough to feel confident enough to progress further. I’m so annoyed that freedom was a given then it was taken in an instant with no warning. What the ❤❤❤❤!?

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/speising

          i just worked on spanish subjunctive past skill, completing level 3 and doing some lessions of level 4. between the 8 lessions i completed, there were 76 distinct sentences (but in both directions, so really only 38), and that despite having 20 sentences per lession. and i didn't notice any change from lvl 3 to 4.

          so, those "lessions" are really more like practice sessions, without adding anything more challenging, and without regard to my proven skills, like the old practice was at least supposed to work.

          instead of adding ever more lessions of the same old stuff in new levels, how about having fewer lessions but with actual new stuff? ideally combined with a practice button which draws from all previous levels and respects my stengths and weaknesses.

          March 30, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

          Those are lessons, not lessions.

          March 30, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/otsogutxi

          Overall, I think the crowns system will definitely be more motivating than the strengthening system, and it seems to offer something for every learner, but one thing I need to have is the ability to see what words are in each lesson.

          When I make Memrise courses, I need to know what words are in each skill, so I know I have covered every word. I'd never use the Duolingo Tinycards courses, as they don't even have half the words.

          (Let's hope Wayback Machine works for Duolingo)

          March 31, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pentaan

          https://support.duolingo.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002602006-What-can-I-do-with-Duolingo-for-Schools-

          Explore Course: Enter your classroom and select “Curriculum” on the sidebar on the left. You will be able to explore lists of words .....

          April 3, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/otsogutxi

          Good to know, but I still wish there was a solution for non-classroom learners too. I suppose the feature is still in its early stage so we'll have to wait and see.

          April 3, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWarr

          You can get at the word lists for the lessons by clicking on the skills here: https://duolingo.eu/otsogutxi/progress/

          April 3, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sam942504

          Make a way that people can get rid of the update or watch Duo plummet like snapchat did with terrible updates. Strength bars worked and if it isn't broke don't fix it

          April 1, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

          Quote Hermesianax: Repeating basics 1 ten times is not progress.

          Yes, this may be true for basics (at least when you practiced a language for 1-1,5 years), but not for other skills, e.g more difficult grammar skills / tenses in the 2nd half / last quarter in your tree.


          Quote Sam: Strength bars worked and if it isn't broke don't fix it

          +1 vote for leaving the "strength bar system" as it was before on the Scala 2016 web portal and further improving it - incl. fixing well-known update bugs for the Strengthen button "select algorithm".

          Actually it did not that well for repeating weak / difficult words.
          This was the reason I used Memrise in parallel since my 1st month I signed up at DuoLingo.
          .
          .
          There also seems to be a bug with your "learned words" user database and "last_practiced" column, when those words do not update, when you have recently practiced them.
          .
          .
          You IMHO need to have a 3rd party flashcard spaced repetition SR application like Memrise, AnkiSRS, SuperMemo,... anyways:

          • SR software never had the aim to repeat multiple times in a short time-line the older stuff which you already know and (actively) learned a longer time before.

          • It's focus was to repeat words (phrases/sentences) BEFORE you might have forgotten them according to your "forgetting curve".

          • Or to revisit words / NEWLY learned content you were exposed just 4h / 12h / 1d / 6d (Memrise) / 1d++ (AnkiSRS) before in short-term.

          April 2, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terry614373

          I want the last software version back. Crowns material is too too boring. It’s forcing me to go over really basic stuff I already know. It has become a waste of my time.

          April 4, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shirlgirl007

          I was not finished my German tree, but now I cannot continue, as there is a message that says I met reach level 1 in all skills until I can open up a new unit. This is not functioning correctly, since all my other units are already 2,3, and 4.

          April 4, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charles215113

          I'm glad you don't mind negative comments, cause I'm about to leave you some.

          Twice during the course of learning with you, the tree has been upgraded, and twice I've lost all the gold skills - I know you say you haven't removed them, but that's not how it looks from here.

          Do you know, do you have any idea how demoralising that is? To see all that work vanish, that visual effort gone, because you can't leave well alone?

          How about, instead of fiddling and making the site look flashy, you take your redesign, bin it, and simply let us learn without your interference?

          I get much more motivation from seeing that lesson gold, than from seeing a farting little crown with a number in it which means nothing to me.

          April 5, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dbUlkK

          GET RID OF IT PLEASE

          April 5, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hellpitt

          guys I really dislike this system... it takes control out of my learning. I am seriously considering dropping out guys.

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Margolf

          I just got crowns-- certainly has started my day off on a downer--- went from a golden tree to reset to lvl 2 on everything -- even the very first lesson-- and it is crystal clear that no effort was made to avoid repetition-- even the very first lesson on the tree I am being forced to completely repeat - not a single thing is skipped- talk about an unnecessary waste of time. it would be one thing to have extra/new lessons at each level- but that is clearly not the case- this resets to complete restart.

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrea907531

          I always did each new lesson twice in a short distance of time before I continued. No I have to wait until I finished a whole circle of lessons. That might take nine days before I can repeat the first lesson of a circle. That's a to long distance of time and to much input. My consequence will be to write down each new lesson in an exercise book, to repeat the new lessons from it and I will start a LEO "Vokabeltrainer".

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephenBla12

          The problem with getting rid of the option to test out is that you introduced Crowns right after you switched in a new French. Losing progress with the new French was annoying, but not critical because I could just test out of the stuff I already knew. But now I can't. I have a bunch of stuff that's boring: I already know it, and I can't just test out of it.

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SanDigital

          I feel you here. I just looked at my new doubly revised French tree. It had me doing things like OUI and NON! I've known that for 30+ years... Duolingo has replaced effective practice and testing with tedium

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CateDS

          I would have just liked them to tell us that the new content was coming! I have been submitting tickets for a week asking about it, with no response!

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnirbanDut3

          It is good to see that in depth practice is possible for each skill. However, I found that redoing a lesson within a skill is not possible anymore! I miss that redoing very much. Also my request to the Duolingo team to add back the verb conjugation table if possible that was present earlier (conjugation table used to appear just by hovering the cursor over a verb). Thanks.

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andrew753264

          I really wish that the testing out option would still be available because I already practice french outside of Duolingo (at school). So if I can't advance in Duolingo without having to repeat all the stuff I've already learned, I'm not learning anything. And if I'm not learning anything, then this is useless

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heike333145

          Sorry, I don't understand: You can advance without repeating old skills. In my Norwegian tree, there are some skills that previously were golden and that now are on different levels. And I can still choose to do the new lessons that I hadn't touched before the update.

          And in French, where my tree was complete, I can do any skills I want.

          Am I misunderstanding something?

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GScottOliver

          2018/04/10 Yes. The concept of gamification of learning is wonderful. but the problem is that if it's a game, there must be a way of "winning". Previously, one could "win" by completing the tree, turning all the skills gold, and then keeping them that way with practice. And DL would occasionally add new sentences, or at least show you some that you hadn't seen before.

          Now, from what I read here, on some of the early skills the new levels don't give you new words and phrases to learn, but you still have to plod through the given number of lessons to get to the next level, and eventually "win" at that skill. That makes it so the game is no fun anymore. That's why we need a "testing out" option.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/whukriede

          I think I'm finally fed up with this brain dead company. Good bye, Duo, it really is enough now.

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Enchilada5

          It is good with a change, although I prefer the old version where you could see immediately what you need to practice on and the progress of each lessons.

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

          So... it's not a good change.

          May 16, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Olivia-R-W

          My trees (9 all together- I'm "double-learning" some) all got switched to the Crown system today, and, while it is still my first day, I don't really like it. Being the overachiever that I am, earned 50xp so far today just trying to bring Basics One in a language I'm (supposedly) 55% fluent in and I want to bring everything up to gold- am I correct in saying that once it is gold, it won't go back or weaken like it used to?

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KingGeorgeNE

          It appears after changing the English to French skill tree around completely, Duolingo did not take any of the negative feedback seriously. This additional change, which seems to have negatively affected the "strengthen skills", was another bad decision. Good luck keeping people!

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lunanya

          This new system might not be bad but looking through the FAQ there seem to be a lot of issues to fix or tweak. I thought users would always have the chance to say no to an upgrade until things got improved, but I was just forced to switch to the new system. In my opinion, you shouldn't force people to use a new system that has so many issues. Let people have the choice to say no and switch everyone once things are improved. I'm pretty unhappy about how this was forced now.

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TimK77777

          Under the old system, practicing advanced (further down the tree) skills would affect less advanced ones so that sometimes more than one skill would get strengthened at the same time (up to four in my experience). Is this going to work under the new system? If not, it's a significant loss because one would need to go through all skills all over again, including now really boring early ones.

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaSmith507855

          My program has just been changed to crowns, and my first impression is WTF? Sorry. I was rated at level 3 on basics, so I tried it out and went through all 9 lessons, and it was like I was a brand new beginner. Talk about remedial. Way below my levels. I really hated it before if I made a typo and had to have that word 16 times over and over again in a lesson, now it's even worse. Hope I find some way to move up much faster, I can't even imagine having to go through this whole tree for months just to get back to a place where I feel like I am moving forward again. Disappointed.

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Japan_is_Perfect

          The new "Crown" update makes Duolingo too slow. It is also confusing and is not helping me in any way so far. I strongly dislike the "Crown" update and I hope it is possible to go back to the original. Basically, it is drilling a bunch of words into your head and hoping you remember them. I would love to see a test at the end of the tree to see if you took it seriously.

          April 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoshuaLind17

          I just got Crowns tonight, and it was definitely a jarring change. Your "mega post" already addresses my two biggest concerns, but I'm posting to make my voice heard and hopefully up-vote the features to be a priority.

          I need spaced repetition and the list of vocabulary.

          I want to get better and learn new skills, but I do so slowly. I like to practice the older skills more to make sure I don't forget the words from earlier lessons (I think Crowns will work well for this). The problem is that without the degrading progress bars I don't have a good idea of what skills I should review.

          The other problem is the lack of individual lessons with the list of vocabulary. There are a few things that I know I am struggling with. So, I would specifically redo those lessons regularly to try and get better at it. I can't do that anymore. I just have to pick the right "skill" and then hope that the lesson actually includes the words I want to work on.

          Crowns seems to have more good than bad, but there are some quality-of-life options that need to come back ASAP.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TasnimSidd1

          I don't like this new system at all. I no longer know how many lessons there are in each skill level (oh! know they are known as "crowns"). I can no longer choose which lessons to practice. I get it that team Duolingo want the courses to look and feel all secretive and mysterious but it not working, well at least not for me. Instead of this "Crown" stuff they could have worked on improving the quality of other newer courses like Hebrew where several audio files are missing. Now that would have helped learning a new language a lot. Again, when I practice a lesson, I no longer have the option to type words in Hebrew instead I am presented with a multiple choice words list to choose from and that too gets entered in the opposite format. So, in place of selecting אבא בא in right to left direction, I have to select בא first followed by אבא later. It's really frustrating to feed words from end to beginning rather the other way around which is the usual case everywhere. I really appreciate all the hardwork team Duolingo puts in generating such a great language learning platform but not every vision has the desired outcome. Hope the necessary corrections get made and we all get to enjoy learning on Duolingo like before or better than before!!!

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JorgeQueir2

          I liked the practice button, because you just press it, you work on your weaker items and you make some progress. I hope you make a new button, that accomplishes this.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sssuuueee

          Ick! I just got "upgraded" which seems to be a downgrade to me. What a mess this looks like. I've returned after a while away and now I don't know where I am in the tree. Stuff I know has the same number as stuff I haven't looked at in a year. Everything now says completed 0 of whatever the number is. So, it looks like you've just zeroed out everything I've done.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FedericoVo15

          I miss being able to practice individual skills.

          1.We didn’t remove skill practice; we rebranded it! With Crowns, we turned skill practice into more lessons. With the old system, you would complete a skill once then practice however much you wanted to. With Crowns, you still complete the skill once to be able to advance, but then you’re able to practice with increasing difficulty and get concrete progress and credit each time.

          1.Yes you did. I actually WANT TO HAVE CONTROL OVER MY LEARNING. Before this update, every skill was “broken” in smaller “chapters”, an if you didn’t understood one of them, you could simply repeat the mini-lesson. Now it’s not longer like this. I’m struggling, bacuseit often happens that I don’t get some grammatical structure and that I really struggle doing the entire lesson because the sentences that are presented to me after completing the lesson are harder. I want to choose the difficulty to make sure I get the base concepts before proceeding to more advanced stuff. And that’s no longer possible with this update.

          2.I miss being able to see words in each lesson. We can consider bringing it back in some form, but right now we think investing in better ways to see and practice words makes more sense.

          2.Well, bring it back SOON because it is a crucial feature. I want to SEE the words to know if I’m familiar with them. That’s a crucial part.

          These are the two reasons I am thinking of quitting Duolingo. It was a very good experience. I loved the little owl that motivated me every time. But you ruined it. I’m no longer able to learn slowly like I want.

          You ruined it. Please respond me, at least to say me goodbye before I leave this platform.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KK8m5v

          I still think you should be able to test out of the easy stuff. I have typed 'I am a woman' more times than I care to count and find it incredibly frustrating. Where have the bots gone? I miss the little dialogues!

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HelpfulDuo

          Hi KK8m5v! It is true that in the first few skills, if you are trying to grind them all at once, it gets very repetitive. This should not happen as much as you are working lower in the tree, with more vocabulary available to build more complex sentences. You can also try to move forward instead of leveling up each skill all at once.

          The bots were removed temporarily from the iOS app, and they are coming back in a more integrated way. They are not gone forever! Please keep in mind that that change is unrelated to Crowns.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deliciae

          While the sentences do become more complex farther down the tree, there are typically also fewer sentences available per lexeme farther down.

          Repeating the same sentences through 5 Crown Levels doesn't stop being repetitive just because the sentences are more complex.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rocteur

          I didn't notice this yet with the Dutch course but in the French course I definitely found the sentences in the advanced section more complex.This is a good thing for improving the language you're learning.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PurpleJane

          Thanks HelpfulDuo. I am an intermediate level spanish speaker, who (like many others) is very frustrated with doing the same very basic things over and over in this new crown system. Are you suggesting that I should just finish the last few items in my tree and not worry about leveling up my skills in order to not be so bored?

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juliane339717

          before the system changed, my once golden skills kept changing back to their original colours always anyway, so I feel it is not much different now. At least the crowns stay once I´ve done them. Also I feel sentences do become a little more difficult even at the earlier skills as soon as I do more repetitions. I think I might like the new update

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

          Yes, don’t worry, be happy! Hakuna matata! If you bring everything up to level 1 that equals a golden tree. Then, go around the tree doing only once of each or more if you like, but not too much of the same thing and consider it review.

          April 12, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Authraw

          Hm, I'm sad to see that the "decay" feature is gone--it gave me a clear and easy way to know when to go back and study old material versus when I was ready to move on to new stuff. But now that it's all self-directed I don't really know which lessons I have to go back and study more versus which ones I'm good on for a while.

          The new Crowns model doesn't work like my brain does--I don't learn things once and then retain that knowledge forever; things fade over time unless I go back and practice it--but the new model doesn't seem to encourage practice at all. The practice button no longer has an effect on my stats, so I lose out on all of the benefits of gamification. :(

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

          Redoing a lesson is the same thing as practicing, so do one here and there.

          April 12, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bwiny78

          This cynical ‘upgrade’ has little to do with learning and is more about monetising and ‘gamifying’ the app to wring revenue from users. As you now only get five chances per day, to keep ‘playing’, you can do long, dull practice sessions, watch more ads or buy more gems - or wait four hours for another chance. It’s intensely frustrating not being able to practice individual lessons as and when you want. I’m so disappointed and irritated by this change.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KenCavines

          My method for using Duolingo has been to to finish a tree and then repeatedly re-gild it in a given language, then switch to a different language and repeat. Since I had complete trees in 5 languages, the trees were always expiring and turning colors again. But 3 weeks ago I had 2 gold trees simultaneously, and was motivated to go back and push hard to get a 3rd gold, keeping the other 2 gold all the while. And I did it! 3 at the same time. Wow. Then my compulsiveness really kicked in, I returned to a 4th language and tried to re-gild that tree as quickly as possible, before the other 3 had expired too far. I was getting close, and then today I got the crowns "update", and all my trees turned colors again. Oh, no! Those crowns with 3s (and a few 2s) just don't satisfy. After an initial very unhappy period, during which I experimented with how much work it would be to get 5 crowns for a currently 3-crown spot, I realized that it's definitely not worth it. Despite promises of advanced content at the higher levels, it's mind-numbingly boring to just review one skill "spot", and not good language acquisition pedagogy, in any case.

          But Duo has actually done me a favor in taking away my possibility of having a gold tree, freeing me to work on reverse trees and trees practicing my various languages. Good-bye, English! My goal for a given tree will now be just to complete it, not to keep it gold, and not even to review it, since I will generally get adequate review from other trees. I may still want to do some occasional review to push up toward level 25, but that's a pretty artificial standard, not a high priority. So although I doubt this was what the Duolingo designers were aiming for, I say: THANK YOU, Duo! Thank you for saving my from myself, from by perfectionistic tendencies, from my compulsive attempt to keep several trees golden. I am free!

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Huy_Ngo

          Same here

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dhyan.nataraj

          Can you please return golden skills as they were. I like them it was very motivating for me to see half of my page golden. I felt that I've accoplished something. But with crowns there is no such effet.

          Or at least make it configurable, so I cant turn it on again.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kath449297

          Am very disappointed. My Duo changed to the crowns system yesterday and I read the FAQs and a lot of the criticism but wanted to try it out before coming to a opinion. So, random observations... 1. how can you have a level five in sentences like 'I am the man' or even simply 'The boy'? - I can't understand that idea at all. Those sentences (at level 3 apparently)...will they go to level 4 if I do them again? And what would be the point? Surely to go up a level I need to be doing something more complicated which then contradicts the idea of this being the very Basics? There was a psychological spur for me in having everything I'd done complete, but now to achieve that I have to endlessly repeat that She is a lady or whatever? 2. that mechanical woman's voice is awful 3. there seems to be very little in the way of being expected to remember words. The old hover tips were never very good as they sometimes seemed designed to trick us into using the wrong word rather than helping us choose the right one, but at least with a hover tip you can try and remember the words yourself first - now they just seem to be there from the start and there's almost no effort required. That's just on trying to get the Basics from level 2 to 3 - dreading trying the more complicated stuff. (I was on '62% fluency'.) I'd happily pay if necessary to return to the old system!

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnVanDyne

          Congratulations, Duolingo! I WAS doing six languages and had a streak of 849 days straight. With your new CROWNS system however, I'm leaving Duolingo for good. You have succesfully driven away a loyal user who has brought in, at current count, around 20 other people. I'm now telling everyone to avoid your app like the plague!!! The reason is this: With the crown system, basically every single lesson will rely on health bars. I AM NOT PAYING $$$ FOR HEALTH BARS!!!! If I must spend dollars, I'm going with Rosetta Stone, which is clearly a much better bang for the buck. Have fun with your new Crowns.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stephen442646

          I think it's fair to say your new format is disliked to a greater or lesser degree by most people. For my style of learning, it is no longer compatible. If you do not listen to your customer base and change back, you will lose a lot of followers, including me. You should have at least tried to engage people in the change, rather than just impose it. Look up ADKAR for tips on stakeholder engagement, And, I have switched off notifications for discussions. So many people chjiming in on this, flooded my Inbox with far too many"someone has commented" emails.

          April 8, 2018

          [deactivated user]

            see my comments above, indeed there are more learning styles but DL seems less adaptive now. And also what you are measuring (it is not the skill but how much you progress the course but people think it has to do with skills).

            April 8, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mukl
            • 521

            Very good step, now I have to learn new words like the girl, the man, the woman... :-DDD

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Saminator5

            I joined Duolingo on my sister's insistence. I liked Duolingo in an instance. The updated French tree was also great. But this "CROWNS UPDATE" is just completely unbearable. I hate it. The same sentences get repeated over and over again at each and every level, there is no increase in difficulty as was promised. The disappearance of the words list, locking out of the timed practice and the stupid repetition of the same sentences almost brought me to tears. I hope I can remain patient till a better and improved version gets rolled out.

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MennoGraaf

            Even though I see the potency of the crowns concept, I severely miss a clear visual to see where I can best focus my attention on. Strolling through the lessons to see which one has lower points is hard. Also I appreciated the guidance that directed me to the apropriate lesson to practice, based on the mistakes I was making.

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agave9
            • 1119

            If you go to https://duolingo.eu/MennoGraaf/progress/ you can see what skills are decaying.

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rredfearn32

            I really dislike how Duolingo seems to have done a complete 180 on their philosophy of "you forget things with time, so we'll remind you what to study with spaced-repetition" to "learn at your own pace, with no guidance at all". I could do that with a textbook, but DL was more useful than that. Was.

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianDAgos

            Here I thought the repetition and monotony was only a problem on the less popular languages. Apparently it's a problem on the core languages as well? Sounds like an incomplete "upgrade". Want to get another crown? Do all the same lessons... again. No thanks. I'll take my single crown and keep moving through the tree. No new content here folks. Move along, move along.

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wolliam

            I got the "Crowns" system a couple of days ago and have tried it out a bit. The major concern for me is that you removed the thing where you were told to go back and review an earlier lesson when it isn't golden anymore. How am I supposed to know when to go back or not and redo something?

            In the last system I just moved on and had every new lesson twice and jumped back to strenghten some earlier lessons when told so. How do I know when to move on and to chose which lesson systematically? Isn't the systematic, scientifical teaching what Duolingo is about?

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agave9
            • 1119

            If you go to https://duolingo.eu/wolliam/progress/ you can see which skills need to be worked on.

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wolliam

            Ok, great! Thank you. Much appreciated. How do you get there if you don't want to write /progress in the browser?

            Also shouldn't it be easier to find the progress?

            April 11, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miss_Pasko

            Just to be clear wolliam - the link is to a third-party site and is not provided by duolingo. From what I can gather, someone set this up (duolingo.EU) to gather publicly available user data and show it in different ways.

            I have personally been calling it a back-door to duolingo.COM - maybe it is more like a magic portal! It certainly seems magic to me.

            The magician has even updated the site in the last few days to try to include links to the vocabulary for each skill set! If I knew who it was, I would donate 500 lingots!

            April 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FabianFloresVad

            I don't think so. The .eu site just get the public data from Duolingo.com and show it. And I can't see any ad in it.

            April 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wolliam

            Ok. It is very weird. I can through that website strengthen my lessons but I can't go and take new lessons. If I press the strenghten button I come to a lesson just like the old Duolingo but if I press a lesson I haven't done I just come to the new Duolingo website with crowns. Anyone know if they are going to keep the ability to be told to go back and redo old lessons? Like the strengthening they had before.

            April 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/niahrya

            @wolliam: Same for me while using the web-version. but I still have an app for Windows Phone and Window Tablet installed. Both seem to have not updated yet. At least I don't have the crowns there and the "strengthen" is available. It turns in XP but won't add up to the crown levels if I use the "strengthen" there.

            April 17, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IvanNurk

            and one can't help but wonder just what other information about the individual is available from duoloingo.com..... but then again i don't suppose anyone is using their real name or personal data, are they?

            April 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/niahrya

            at least, I didn't find any of my personal data on that site. e.h. the amount of XP can also be seen for someone, when clicking here onto a name and opening the profile picture. The only things that this site displays more than via duolingo profiles is: how much XP a person made per day (but only for the currently active language), the amount of lingots and statistics regarding words of the currently active language like how many lessons and skills were completed and strength of the skills. but after all: the profile page here in duolingo also used to display more information like e.g. when a skill got finished.

            but yes, in general, you (/noone) should not use the real name to be displayed on any site to make it harder for people to collect information about you. I assume that all the data which is shown there comes from direct requests or direct links from within duolingo-system itself. I think, maybe due to API-requests etc. (I work within the field of software development and am responsible for the quality assurance of the software which is written by my colleagues, so I have some knowledge in this area.) - If you would need to really log in into the system with the credentials of Duolingo, I would call it a fraud or way to get the hands on your data. I use that page only to see all grammar tips on one page and maybe have a look onto the list of vocabulary for the upcoming skill. But who knows how long that page will still work since Duolingo changed its system. Might be the case that it will stop working when everyone is changed into the "crown"-system and Duolingo deactivating old code/artefacts etc.

            April 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wstockall

            @niahrya: I'm pretty sure duolingo.eu gets all of its information from https://www.duolingo.com/users/[username]. That has a ton of data in a JSON format. Firefox even has a viewer for the JSON data built into it.

            April 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agave9
            • 1119

            I don't think there is a different way to see your progress. Duolingo doesn't seem to want to make things easy for us.

            April 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carolynn357728

            I have tried using the tip for accessing the old system Duolingo EU version. When I do, I come up with the crown system again. Am I missing something? I was wondering in the new year why my number pat of usename suddenly changed. I am now guessing it was in preparation for migrating to the crown system. Did anyone else have their username suddenly morph?

            April 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BusJo
            • 1701

            Yes, mine morphed, don't much like it either.

            April 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dhagen36

            I know how I learn, and I really like to repeat a specific lesson before moving on to the next lesson. This new system no longer allows me to do that. I also would right down the new words I knew from the list on each lesson and would study them individually. This is now much harder to do.

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gremmie1

            Aside from the common criticisms about crowns, with which I mostly agree , is there any particular reason Duolingo has ceased giving the brief notifications upon "leveling up" in a language. I know the xp really doesn't mean too much in the end, but it was a nice feature to know when I made a new level there. Taking it away just seems to be removing features for the sake of removing features. This new Duolingo does too much of that already.

            As for revisiting the common criticisms about this new interface, my top arguments would be the lack of decay/spaced repetition, the lack of tests in general, and the fact that the actual lessons - that is the reading for the course - is inconveniently tucked away from the exercises. Saying "we may revisit this" doesn't really help. That just tells me that the current system, for the few good points it has, is incomplete. It should only have been rolled out in optional beta, not forced upon all.

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rustu10

            I can not express how much I hate the change to crowns. I had learning goals based off of the old system that this unexpected and forced transition completely throws out the window. From my perspective I have wasted months of time trying to reach specific goals I set based off of the old system that are no longer traceable from an end user perspective. I seriously have to consider rather to abandon use of duolingo due to this change, both its nature and the way it was implemented. I have enjoyed this program up to this point but this transition has been extraordinarily frustrating for me. I am deeply disappointed.

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pconaway

            I fail to see the benefit of completing 21 repetitive lessons centering on Yo soy un nino, and Tu comes manzanas just to move from level 3 to level 5 in basic skills. If anything, this busy work just annoys me and causes me to pay less attention. I love the stories - those are so much better to learn from - that was a great improvement, and now you have degraded to ridiculous rote work. ( and yes, I know the accents are missing on the Spanish sentences, but that is the limitation of my keyboard.)

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/G_Spot
            • 1347

            Is there any way to view the individual lessons like I could a week ago? A big part of the way I learn this is to go lesson by lesson and translate each word so I have a list to go along with Duo. Sometimes I take the time to take those very lists over to Tiny Cards.... I also VERY MUCH LIKE that I can go into an individual lesson and brush up on it. I just got on the "crown system" today and am not seeing a way to do that. Have I missed it or is it just gone? I have done a lot of duo and seen a lot of changes. This is the first one that is making me consider doing this somewhere else.

            April 10, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/loughjohn

            please can we have the strength bars back for each level so we can see the progress we are making on the level and have some control in parallel with the automatic system :-) i feel we have lost control over our own learning here now :-(

            April 10, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/starrygordon

            I have had a somewhat different approach to Duolingo from many of the users here in that I am interested only in the result of learning and practicing certain languages; the gamification and scoring aspects have been irrelevant to me. My measure of accomplishment is the extent to which I can read, write, speak, and understand the languages I am studying. The transition to the crown levels seems to have returned me to very basic, very repetitious material from which I learn little and which are, of course, pretty boring. I have also been dismayed to learn that timed decay may have been eliminated. I think it is essential to learning material which requires a lot of memorization -- a primary example being new languages. It looks like exit time for me, or at least time to look around at other options.

            April 10, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CateDS

            Don't know that that makes you different approach - many of us feel the same way. Let us know if you find a good alternative! Unfortunately, at the moment I don't know of an app that is really a viable option (and who wants to start from scratch when you already have a strong base?!)

            April 11, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

            Tried it. Didn't like it. :-(

            May 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gmmail2000d

            No the crowns are not an improvement. Apart from my gold that is gone I have been testing the new look with the crowns since the weekend. I did not find new and more difficult translations but have to struggle to endless repetitions to get to the level I was before. Worst is that I am even on level 3 on the starter's level and have to repat "Hello", "Goodbye" etc again. I always tried to keep my tree on a golden level. Why could the crown sytem not take thoses golden circles as a Level 5, keep them golden, and put the crows up from this level? I really would like to get an answers. This kind of learning is really not motivating - I am not sure I will go on another 774 days (so far I got today).

            April 10, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elljaym

            I do appreciate the efforts that the Duolingo team go to but the new system is a bit of a visual mess at the moment. Also, please bring back the test out feature: the inability to do this makes the repetition of the earlier levels, for learners who are already more advanced, really boring.

            April 10, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terry614373

            Because the lessons are shorter but there are so many more of them to complete (150 for Vocabulary 3 in Spanish) learners are exposed to 50 times as many advertisements. DuoLingo admins need to tell the truth about why the Crown system was implemented. It was all about the money they receive for the ads.

            April 11, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klktx56

            Really don’t like the new update. The exercises are too repetitive. The feeling of accomplishment has been lost. The imperfect metric of fluency had a vital role of encouraging people to persist, but it is now gone. I feel like I have lost an old friend. Now looking at other on-line tools. For me, you have broken Duolingo.

            April 11, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JesseWH

            It really bothers me that I can't study individual lessons. I liked the ability to revisit previous lessons especially since I'm a slow learner. Now, there's no way I can brush up on a specific thing I already learned. It just takes me to the next lesson. This whole crown thing seems fine overall, but this one issue really kills the Duolingo experience for me. I really hope this becomes an option in the future.

            April 12, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThisOldSpouse

            I have been working with this app for over 4 years and have enjoyed the progress I have made in learning a second language. The app never yelled at me for not catching on right away and I always had the option of going back to review and study past lessons. Believe me when I say that there were times that it took a lot of studying and review before I felt comfortable in moving on to the next lesson. I am grateful for the opportunity to use the app and have learned a lot. I was looking forward to continuing to learn and having a long association with Duolingo.

            Unfortunately, after working with the new crown system for a bit I can say that I am thoroughly disgusted with its ability for me to pick and choose the specific areas I want and need to review or practice. Losing that ability to review and proceed at my own pace is very important to me. I am not in this for the short run. I would like to be able to use the language I am trying to learn. To do that I need to get things into long term memory and that requires practice and more practice. That’s why that even though I am have been at this on an almost daily basis for 4 years and am at level 24 I am only about half way through the lessons.

            Having the availability of more nuanced and difficult questions I think is a good feature. However, and this is a major point If I don't really understand questions at the previous level what good is it going to do to go on to more difficult items? All that is going to happen is I will get confused, disillusioned and decide I am not making any real progress.

            I am really, really close to just chucking the last four years of work and trying to find a place that will let me work and review at my own pace. Actually, today I was at a point where I just did not care to even try and continue with the lesson. I did keep at it until I completed it but it was a struggle.

            Please, please reconsider adding some of the lost functionality back in. I am going to try and stick it out for a bit but don’t know how long I can keep going.

            April 12, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ALLintolearning3

            The review comes back at level 5, but there is a way to use it now so scroll up and down in this discussion for it.

            April 12, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nejc1975

            What I see as the problem is that you have to do the whole section before you can practice it. Example: I am doing Present-2 (spanish) which has seven lessons. I have to go through all 7 lessons before I can start repeating it. All 7 lessons is to much (new words) at once. Some sections even have 10 lessons - and you have to do them all before you can start repeating... Before, I could repeat each lesson in a section until I felt comfortable to move on. My opinion is, that was better.

            About Crown levels: would be useful if levels would get harder, or at least would have different kind of practice. If they are really all the same, than it is nonsense.

            April 12, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BusJo
            • 1701

            I agree with the whole section at once being a problem; if I didn't already have my French tree done I would never be able to cope. Another thing that is missing is the highlighting of the new words. Hopefully they will sort some of these issues that are a problem for the average user.

            April 12, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vivifie2

            Wait until you get to level 4 and you have 25 and more lessons before you can practice. However, it is just the same material over and over, so I guess that IS the practice -- if you can stand the boredom.

            April 12, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/territech

            During the six days since the Crown system was pushed to me, I have spent a significant amount of time reading this forum and exploring other language learning sites in an effort to decide whether and how I will use Duolingo in the future. Unnecessary repetition does not appeal to me, but I do want to use Spaced Repetition to review words I have learned. While I have not made any language progress this week, I have learned a lot about Duolingo from the comments that others have shared. In an effort to help others, here is a summary of what I have learned this week and how I plan to proceed with my language studies:

            (1) To avoid forgetting what I have already learned, I will use the following site to identify skills to practice to bring strength to 100%. (This seems to be the equivalent of getting a skill to gold in the old system.) https://duolingo.eu/[yourusername]/progress (Put your actual user name in the link between the brackets and remove the brackets.)

            (2) To learn new vocabulary for trees I have finished, I will select skills to acquire more crowns. (I will probably start in the last half of the tree to avoid being bored and wasting time on words I already know.) For trees not yet finished, I will work on the skills necessary to unlock the next skills until all the skills are open to me, same as I would have in the old system.

            (3) For interest and vocabulary, I will read stories from the Labs tab. This is VERY valuable. I like it better than anything Duolingo has introduced. I hope they continue to develop this.

            (4) To hear the language spoken naturally by real people, I will listen to Duolingo podcasts. These are also very interesting and Duo will do well to continue them. I will also use Yabla, which has many more tools to improve understanding of natural speakers.

            (5) To gain experience expressing myself in languages I am learning, I must practice writing and talking to real people who are fluent in those languages. I don't think any software can help me with that.

            (6) Of course, I will read and listen to the learning languages through every other opportunity that I get - books, instructions for products I buy, television shows and movies .....

            (7). Explore existing sites like Memrise and Quizlet to help me incorporate new words from all the above sources into my review routine. Other users have mentioned AnkiSRS, SuperMemo, Clozemaster, HelloTalk, and Verbsquirt, which I have not yet visited. I may create my own word database and my own formula for repetition.

            The first four steps above will ensure that I continue learning languages instead of stressing out over what to study.

            Many thanks to all those who have revealed valuable features of Duolingo that I did not know about!

            April 13, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/szabeszg

            @territech I tested Memrise for a short time yesterday. You might want to know that there is a complete "Duolingo sentences course" there. Someone grabbed all the sentences and turned it into a course.

            @Duolino team: We will soon quit because I have children using Duolingo who had fun with it in the "pre crowns" era. You see, they are small kids, they cannot make any use of this new "system" without spaced repetition guiding them. I will also quit as I want to use what they use.

            @Anybody else: I think the closest thing to Duolingo is Busuu.com. I'm still testing it out but I like what I've seen so far. We might even pay for it, something I will never do for Duolingo for sure. Busuu is a lot better implemented, that is why.... I might have never considered switching but this stupid way of Duolingo treating us opened my eyes.

            I will linger around a bit more, until I decide where to go from here but I will surely leave this sinking ship.

            Good luck folks, it's been fun while it lasted. And thanks to the Duolingo team, at least I could learn something new even if it is not too much so far :)

            April 13, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/territech

            Thank you, Szabeszg. Yes, someone else mentioned the existing Duolingo word lists on Memrise, and I have found and enrolled in a Memrise course for Spanish and German. Thank you for the comments about Busuu.com. I will check it out, too. Until now, I have found the combination of Duolingo and Yabla to be quite adequate for my learning purposes. Now I am adding Memrise for the Spaced Repetition that Duolingo has dropped.

            By the way, have you and your family looked at the stories in the lab? You might find it beneficial for your family to read those. After doing a couple of stories in both Spanish and German, I have decided to focus on those for now rather than adding crowns. They are really entertaining. Modifying my learning strategy already. (-:)

            April 14, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sixftlion

            I just discovered the Labs right now, today… I am going to go through all the stories, it's really fun… The new Crown system didn't add any new words, so it's just plain repetition for me (I've been keeping my tree golden for at least half year) and these Labs are just awesome. New stimulus :)

            April 14, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/szabeszg

            @Territech Finally we subscribed to Mango, via https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/mango-languages/

            Busuu.com is not for little ones so I had to look for something else. Mango Languages is the only one I could find which can be enjoyable by 8-12 year old kids. Oh, and Duolingo used to be the other one, before they killed their original and proven methodology to attract both adults and children :( Nowadays Duolingo does not want to attract anyone...

            April 17, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

            Busuu doesn't offer Swedish. [sadface]

            May 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miss_Pasko

            Beautiful summary!

            April 13, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heike333145

            Thank you very much for these detailed explanations!

            I think it is very important to note that this is a work in progress, and that criticism is being taken into account. It's great that you addressed all the points (as far as I can remember ...) that people have had issues with or questions about.

            I'm soooo looking forward to being updated! Perhaps, in order to encourage it, I should do a little less in the old system??? ;-)

            Many thanks to you and the whole team! :-)

            March 28, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Xerofax

            If stuff is still a "work in progress", don't just roll it out, even if you make a temporary higher ad revenue due to it .

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Neko844923

            All this looks too complicated to me. (Especially when I see crowns in the Android app and don't see them in the web version. And when I see levels in the web version and don't see them in the Android app. -- Where am I? Was I switched to crowns? )

            March 29, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lrtward

            Crowns and levels are the same thing. When your account switches to the new crowns (levels) system, it switches for all languages on all devices.

            March 29, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gamekkeut

            Wait, by levels are you speaking of XP levels (up to 25)? Or is this another type that I’m unaware of (I don’t use the android app)?

            March 29, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

            Hi Gamekkeut,

            "Crown skill levels" = L1-L5 for each completed skill (or L0 for locked/incomplete).

            This has nothing to do with the normal language levels 1-25 which are based on XP and show in your user profile or discussion forum threads (e.g level 19 in Korean).

            March 29, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pamhsiehca

            What is the highest number of crowns you can get? What is the goal we should reach for?

            April 19, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4oYBIxtO

            The highest is five per skill but more than three is in most cases mindless repetitions. So my recommendation is to go for three per skill.

            April 19, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/speising

            I'd like to suggest a small UI change: instead of the numbers in the crowns, it would be much clearer if you added crowns in a circular fashion around the skill. Much easier (read: more satisfying) to quickly see the CL of each skill.

            March 29, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/coto.i
            • 1606

            You mean the way it was in the old design. I'm all for it!

            This is another thing that didn't need any innovation, improvement or fix. Just change for the sake of change.

            March 30, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wstockall

            So crown levels as concentric rings? That sounds pretty reasonable to me. that would also allow them to show the decay in the skills again pretty easily.

            March 31, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/coto.i
            • 1606

            Good old design, both beautiful and efficient:

            The info is communicated faster than by reading numbers.

            EDIT:

            And with a dark theme for the night birds, it absolutely rocks!

            Right-click and choose View Image for an enlarged version.

            March 31, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

            You just broke my heart with that image. I miss it SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            May 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Thomas.Heiss

            Hi Coto,

            is your above image a live screen record from the past days or a very old one (<2016 or 2017)?

            Are any old user scripts still working for you (with the whitelist workaround) since 20 March 2018 like the XP progress bar (course progress script) for the next level-up?

            There used to be a main top bar graph above the tree showing the completion percentages of the skills/lessons on the "Home" page, but "DuoLingo course progress" user script ain't working for me anymore.
            . .
            I also very much miss the date estimates for the course completion on the right panel :(


            PS: Contrats to your impressive 1111 day streak!

            April 2, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/coto.i
            • 1606

            Hi Thomas,

            The above design dates back to at least the beginning of 2015 when I started my Duo journey, and it was used up to somewhere in 2017 (I guess) when it was replaced with this:

            which I still have to date. I don't have the Crowns yet.

            I think the progress bar you can see in the right panel had just been replaced with the "fluency" % when I started. I remember a lot of disappointment then, just like now with all the things missing from the Crowns. That little bar added to the motivation for many.

            All scripts are broken since the Scala update, but there are some userstyles.org styles (search for Duolingo) that can be used to customize the interface.


            PS: Thanks! Time flies so fast you don't even realize. Now it's 100, now it's 500, now it's 1000. Just with a little bit of fun every day :)

            April 2, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tusiperu

            Dark theme looks amazing. Also words meter and XP meter! What a shame they changed it. So useful.

            April 2, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pentaan

            @tusiperu

            Tip:
            Try https://www.duolingo.eu/tusiperu and https://www.duolingo.eu/tusiperu/progress/ as alternatives to the "words meter" and "XP meter" userscripts.

            More information about the unofficial but very useful www.duolingo.eu in
            https://www.duolingo.eu/faq

            April 3, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

            In achievements there is a finish a course achievement which might be like the progress bar. It tells you how many decks there are and how many you have done.

            April 4, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dummmmmmmb

            It wont work

            April 3, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Corinnebelle

            Did you put your name in there? Like this: https://www.duolingo.eu/hannah746887/progress It works for me. I can see your stats. When I looked at it you had 2 lingots and you were up to weather1 which means you have the update for French.

            April 4, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Renia_Rain

            I don't have that!

            April 3, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndroidKanada

            I definitely agree with the last point. A black background would be great, especially when practicing just before bed, as there'd be less biological clock disruption.

            April 8, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lrtward

            Thank you, karint, for such a well worded, comprehensive update. I'm loving the communication efforts I'm seeing from staff these days! It's such a joy to be involved with the magic that is Duolingo: employees, volunteers, and the great user base. I'm absolutely loving the crowns system (although I didn't at first!) and I think you guys have hit another home run here. Thanks again for the update and the transparency.

            March 29, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

            HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            (Unless you were being sarcastic....)

            May 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/migliamurria

            Duolingo seems quite defensive on this subject, interesting.

            March 31, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cambarellus

            Because it is controversial in that some people love it and some people hate it. They understand this is upsetting a lot of their existing user base.

            I'm not on the crown system yet; I like some aspects of what I've read about it; others seem flawed. (such as the lack of practice, and skills not showing decay and need for redoing).

            As slow as changes happen on Duolingo, I imagine it will be a long time before the flaws are fixed. I want to go to Crown system one day, but hope I'm one of the last, so I have to live with the flaws as short as possible.

            I think that ultimately, it will be better than what we have now, but it will take a long time to get there.

            April 3, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWarr

            Bob: Skill strength does decay, and you can see that here: https://duolingo.eu/BobLaVesh/progress/ for the language that you're currently learning. However, all yours are 100% at the moment, apart from the 2 lessons in progress. The ability to sort by Strength, Date (completed) or Skill Name has just been added, which makes it even more useful. Clicking on a Skill also present the lessons in the old format, including the word lists in each lesson.

            April 3, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmalieB39

            Thanks for the explanation and screen shot, Graham Warr. I had no idea that the new system would show our progress in lessons in a list like this. Looks like a great feature.

            I have logged out and accessed Duolingo without my account information, to get a bit familiar with the crown system. But I haven't had the courage to make the switch yet, because I need to progress in German as fast as possible in the next couple of months, in order to manage a class I'll be taking soon - and I'm afraid the differences in the old system and the new will confuse and slow me down.

            Do we have to do anything special to access lessons and word lists in the old format, once we start using the crown system?

            April 3, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWarr

            Nothing special except to use the progress site. I'm continuing to access the lessons through www.duolingo.com but I'm using duolingo.eu to guide me to the skills that I should practice (i.e. the ones that fade from 100% strength). I'd just completed my tree when Crowns came in, and I was assigned 1 Crown in each skill, so I didn't know how best to proceed from there. I really didn't want to work from top to bottom again, but this time having to do 11 times the number of lessons! My progress towards 5 Crowns in each skill is now incidental. I just do the next lesson or so in my skills that need strengthening, almost all of which are in the bottom half of the tree.

            April 3, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmalieB39

            Thanks for the further explanation. I have always done general skills strengthening daily, and I've never had a skill lose its beautiful golden color once I attained it. I review various old skills periodically by doing the lessons again and then some skill strengthening in that set, and it's worked well.

            So maybe it won't really be that different, switching to crowns - as long as I don't obsess over the number of crowns showing on the skills and continue to focus on learning what I know I'm weak in, and pushing forward with new material when I feel I can handle.

            Overall, I am encouraged.

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/speising

            unfortunately there seems to be a bug, the dates shown for the skills are 2017 for everything i've done since the crown change.

            April 4, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamWarr

            For me, each date is the date when I completed that skill under the old system, and they don't change as I do further lessons on that skill., so it's a historical record. I can see that a date when you last worked on a skill would be useful too. However, the Strength is a good indicator of that, as it will decrease when the spaced repetition algorithm determines that it needs practicing again.

            April 4, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/speising

            i observed the date of a skill i made a lession in today to change to 4.4.2017(!), though. . or maybe it was only coincidence...

            April 4, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/widle

            2017?

            April 4, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dwduo

            I'm sure it's probably already been said here and elsewhere and in different ways, but: we lose desired functionality by only having the option to "Start" (the next lesson) with the current design. Karint, if I read your description correctly, the intention is that a casual user could master level 1 all the way down the tree, while a user more interested in mastery could progress through gold in all units. That's a great addition. However, it is lacking in that there is no "practice at my desired level" functionality. That is, if that casual user wants to remain level 1 or level 2, that they should be offered a button that offers not just "Start" (thus progressing deeper), but also "Practice", so they can practice the questions offered right at their desired level. Maybe it seems somewhat pointless, and that it would always benefit the user to go deeper; however, then the ultimate goal of every user would be to go solid gold, which then defeats the intention (and claim) of allowing for casual and hardcore users. Ultimately, everyone must progress toward gold or they'll have nothing to practice (short of the global practice button, which doesn't allow you to pick a unit you want to work on).

            April 2, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/wstockall

            The way things stand right now, you can do most of what you're suggesting by using the "Practice" button on the website or pressing the dumbbell button in the app. This button practices all the skills, or a selection of the ones you've done, at the current skill level without advancing the skill. The only thing that's different is you can't pick specific skills to practice.

            April 2, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Adderbelly

            It would be good to see how many words we have learnt all together for the course

            April 2, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

            They used to send me emails with that information. As did Tinycards. I haven't heard from either site since this massive cl*f* of Crowns. Thank god Tinycards has not been "improved."

            May 16, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Renia_Rain

            Why do things keep changing. They should make Duolingo more fun by adding games and such. I am loosing the joy for Duolingo, I once had. My Duolingo childhood... it. it, fades away....

            April 3, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HannahR313

            I've had crowns on my phone since I downloaded the app in early February. Part of the reason why I switched to completing lessons on my computer was due to my preference of the "gold tree" format. Unlike with the "crown" layout, I was was able to tell which lessons needed to be practised the most by the icon switching from gold to its original colour. I understand the theory behind all the icons being colourful in this new layout as it shows that all lessons need to be practised! However, as someone who's halfway through my tree and strives to complete one new lesson a day, having the ability to see which lessons need practising more than others was an important asset in my learning experience. I'm going to be keeping my gold tree format as this new layout is not helpful to me at this time as there is a lack of motivation to go back and "level up" certain sections; having numerous lessons to choose from to practise is much more OVERWHELMING and confusing than just a handful. When I finish my tree I'll go back and switch to the crowns as it makes more sense to that have that format then.

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatMcCat

            I use my computer too, and was just switched over to crowns today, so you could be next :-(

            I'm not happy. I have absolutely no idea now what I should work on, and I think it's just going to send my anxiety levels through the roof.

            There are some languages I've been working on forever and was at level 25 but striving to get and keep everything gold. I know the point is to learn a language, but it was easier with the old system to keep track of what needed to be worked on next. Now it's a free-for-all.

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terri852677

            Not liking this at all. I was listening to the lesson to try to know what was being said but the lessons I have done all want you to select the words or select the entire sentence. I want to learn to speak and understand what it is being said not just read and write.

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maddison326824

            mine updated and you say that all of your progress will be saved but even though the lessons i've done are still unlocked it's saying they're uncompleted, this is really frustrating. i feel like i've taken 1 step forward just to take 2 steps back.

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lisaoudes

            For me the biggest concern is definitely that nothing is gold now anymore. I used to feel gratified at being able to see my progress, and now everything just looks unfinished. It will take some getting used to for sure.

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aneesah12

            Well, mine changed over yesterday - I took a break and came back to it a couple hours later and it was totally different. While I am still getting used to it ... I really relied on the ones that went from golden to colors again, so I would know what to work on. The fluency levels got me to work harder - totally do NOT get the crown with '115' in place of the fluency spot. What is that suppose to mean. What does the number mean?

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

            My guess is that your Crown Level of 115 is the sum of all of the individual crown levels in your course’s skills — e.g. crown level 3 in one skill, crown level 2 in another skill, etc., the grand total of which for all of the skills is 115.

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StephBeach

            Hi How can I opt out of Crowns? I had a plan and have been following it for 341 (bragging). I don't want to change things now. Help me opt out of crowns until I get my lesson plan I worked on finished.

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartiniqueAsha

            I don't think you can, I had goals for this year and duo's new "up grade" messed me over too. Sorry try memrise or clonemaster

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gaius_Plinius

            Any intention of posting this in other languages?

            Many of these same questions are being asked on the Spanish forum--and presumably all the others--but there is no official post to point them to if they are not fluent in English.

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/debokringel

            I miss gold skills! Why don't you make completed skills gold with the crown symbol, and then only the number in the crown changes ? Or one shiny colour for each crownl evel, e.g. level 1 = shiny blue , level 2= shiny green and so on till 5 =gold ? its just that now it looks like a mess...

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/idlechrononaut

            Although I can see how the change will become better for learning over time, the transition to the crown system marked many of my basic skill levels at 1 and 2, making the lessons rather tediously simple. Rather than motivate me, it's removes any motivation to want to complete them since there is no way to test out.

            I can understand doing so for some of the more complex skill sets, but whatever parameters were used to set these was frustratingly inaccurate.

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heike333145

            I don't think that we have to deal with the basic skills if we don't feel like it. I just started with something that I wanted to do, and it worked.

            I feel that in this set-up, we are much freer to decide what to do because for each skill, we can see where we stand. This was not possible when everything was "golden" until, all of a sudden, some skill lost its gold. Now we can see the current status, and work on it whenever we like.

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/idlechrononaut

            I concur. However, my particular personality likes everything to progress evenly, and I won't enjoy seeing basic skills left at 1 and 2 while everything else progresses.

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sedlacek_m

            100% agree

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NebraskaJonnes

            I completely agree.

            April 6, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dawnofclarity

            I appear to have been merged into this crowns malarkey - complete with a natty alert telling me that "crowns are here" - but you've neglected to have a link or anything similar on that alert to explain just what crowns are! For an update that is supposed to prevent confusion, that feels like somewhat of an oversight!

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Japan_is_Perfect

            the new "Crown system is where you have these so-called crowns, and each crown has a certain amount of times you must complete the lesson. Apparently, after you finish the number of lessons, your score goes up. I am not too clear on the concept, and it is confusing.

            April 10, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Priit_

            As someone who is trying to become fluent in the languages I study I have found this update to hinder that process because it makes it so I can find and learn words I don't know, I have to learn in the order of each course over and over and it gets boring doing words I know just to review 1 words or 1 grammar.

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trioqualingo

            So far, not the biggest fan. In Japanese, at least, the system hasn't worked at all. I just went through the trouble of going from level 2 to 3 on the first skill (hiragana 1). It's painfully obvious how the crowns system is coded. The first 5/10 repetitions were just the five skill bubbles from the old system. Then, 6/10 was the same as 1/10, 7/10 was the same as 2/10 and so on. It didn't get harder, it was just the same thing, even with the exact same questions and answers.

            Now I'm at crown level 3 for that skill and would have to do the whole thing over again. But this is not "more depth", this is repeating the same thing like a machine.

            If this is supposed to do anything, then the languages need to be rewritten. Until this is done, I really would appreciate being able to "test out" to level 5, since I am a bit of a perfectionist and hate having skills lie around because I would keep having to do the same lessons over and over, just because the coding is lazy.

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ljjooste

            Personally I really miss being able to choose what lessons I wanted to do. I learn best when I get to do one lesson as many times as I want till I am really comfortable with the words before I suddenly go and add a pile more on top of them. Its easier to digest a few words at a time and go onto the next lesson than 20 at once. I really do not like not being able to adjust my learning style as I choose.

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/walshben

            I don't care about the crowns or the fluency thing or any of that, I care about the actual exercises being useful and the fridge-magnet pick-a-word games are not. This ruins Duolingo for me and it's something I have got a huge amount of value from over the years.

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robin341141

            Sad to say that I find myself doing basics over and over again to get the skills golden again, having stopped my actual progress. I really think there needs to be a "test out" option.

            Regards: someone who had done 900 xp of Basics 1-2-3 + other things that I already know, not having learned anything.

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emilyrebec250560

            I just got crowns & I really miss being able to test out of individual skills. I've working on brushing up my rusty Spanish & now it seems like I have to slog through 10 rounds of basic vocab to gain access to a grammar skill that I want to work on. Is there a work around for this? Or is it just slog away? I do love Duo, but I feel like the new system keeps me from using my practice time as efficiently...

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tetyana520488

            It's only my opinion, but I miss the lessons (=possibility to redo the simple lesson) very much.

            You write " With the old system, you would complete a skill once then practice however much you wanted to. With Crowns, you still complete the skill once to be able to advance, but then you’re able to practice with increasing difficulty and get concrete progress and credit each time."

            For me it was very useful to repeat one lesson many times, so that I could learn it perfectly. It's almost impossible now with increasing difficulty.

            And I feel me strongly uncomfortable, when I have to go ahead when I didn't remember simpler information.

            Is there some way to remain possibility to train every part of a lesson many times?

            Thanks a lot in advance.

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheAmyLynch

            The crowns have made the app too repeatative, taking the same 10 lessons, 5 Times to master a topic is overly laborious and counter productive.

            I am hoping they will realise this and have less lessons to achieve each extra crown as you progress in a topic, otherwise I may give up all together.

            They claim there is new content, but after the discussion round I am not noticing any differences.

            Maybe the app should be intelligent enough to know after passing the different check points you are bound to have achieved level 5 certain topics eg the basics and they could start to flash and automatically award you Five crowds if you pass a quick fire test or something.

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyOra

            Please return the "test out" option. It's really, really annoying to have to manually level the really basic skills to lvl 5 through many lessons where I won't learn anything new whatsoever - and it hurts my OCD not to have them golden. ;)

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/prestongeer

            There are some definite bugs in the new Crowns-Only update. My progress has not been accurately tracked, and the audio is severely lagging. Also, not being able to “Test Out” of a Skill is tedious and discouraging. For those learning Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish, they will immediately recognize similarities amongst all those Scandinavian languages that are easily transferable. Yet, having to go through each lesson of the basic language differences (one lesson at a time) is annoying and does not make me want to waste my time. “Testing Out” of a skill/level was far more gratifying, and allowed learners like myself to move into more complex lessons much faster. Now that having the option to progress in a language faster has been taken away, I feel cheated. This is definitely a regression in Duolingos format.

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/solipsism5

            I think Duo is doing a great job, but I hope some constructive criticism won't hurt here. I think it is not a good idea to remove the decay of skills feature. People do forget words over time, and this did help prevent that. I think the decay feature was just a little too rapid, though - things done just yesterday or even a few minutes ago had to be redone.

            The old program had you go through the whole course and made sure you mastered everything and stayed good at it. The new system leaves that up to the individual. You could create a system for yourself, but some of us casual users liked how Duo did that for us. Of course, some people would say that you could get all 3's on every course but there would be no decay so supposedly you will have mastered everything forever, and never forget anything. I seriously think Duo should reconsider this new system or tweak it so the old system could be added on in some way. Perhaps you could be gold if you reach level 3, but level 3 could deteriorate over time like in the old system.

            Having to get all gold stars in the whole course was a way of realistically mastering the course. This new system leaves up to the individual to decide whether they have mastered it or not. Essentially that's not a good idea. Duo would not lose anyone if they reintroduced the old system in some new way, but they will lose some people who see a big flaw in the new system.

            April 8, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShadowMan19

            I'm not against the crown system but please regold them, makes it kinda messy and hard to see where you're at now :/

            April 8, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/juldee

            it seems like you're trying to keep the users longer on duolingo by giving them less to learn. frustrating waste of time.

            April 11, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pete561205

            I hate the crowns system and so does a large percentage of users. Today I completed a 365 day streak but I now plan to quit & find another app. I just wish I could undo the update of last week that brought this uninvited curse to the app.

            April 11, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marghvran

            Hi Karint

            Checking though your post I see that...

            "Crowns are a new feature that we believe lets us teach better." and "you can choose to learn new content."

            That's the model then. We teach - you learn. This may be one of the problems behind the new crown system.

            Quite a few Duolingo users take the view that they are teaching themselves. They're free to choose whatever materials they want to do it.

            If you want to fix the new interface, fix the model. The users teach - Duolingo learns.

            April 14, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miss_Pasko

            Another BINGO - many of the contributors here are VERY astute!

            April 14, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Saved_by_Christ

            I think Duolingo is great. I don't really mind the crown system. I kinda like it. So, thank you karint. I am sure the whole Duolingo community appreciates you helping to make Duolingo a better place.

            March 28, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Callie69107

            I think Duolingo is great too and if you're just starting a language the crowns work fine. The problem lots of us are having is when we've finished the tree, we're having to endlessly repeat skills we already know to try and make our trees gold again and this is really demotivating. For longer term users this really isn't making Duolingo a better place.

            April 7, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Izim_M
            • 1545

            Thank you for this post, this really clears up a lot of questions, including questions I hadn't thought of myself. I'm pretty excited to be switched over to the new system.

            March 28, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gabetrav

            Why is there no practice button in the app? I don’t understand this new system at and this is among me use the app LESS not more

            March 29, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lrtward

            See Pentaan's response to gavetrav.

            March 29, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OOGSTER.

            Got a quick question: So one of the FAQs is "I can't pick what lesson I want to do anymore" I don't have crowns yet, so does that mean you don't get to pick a lesson to practice, but that Duolingo picks for you and you don't get a choice? That question confused me a bit, but i'm trying to be optimistic about the change and am hoping it will improve learning experience-thanks for all your hard work in creating this!

            March 29, 2018