"That is not ours."
Translation:Das ist nicht unserer.
This one confuses me.
"Unser-" here is neutrum nominativ, right? "Das" suggests that it's neutrum (unless being used like "that" makes a difference) and "ist" doesn't change the case so at first I would think it should be "unser".
But I read on Wikipedia that when possessive pronouns are used alone without a noun (as "unser-" is here) then they decline like definite articles (like "dies-") rather than indefinite articles. Has Duolingo ever taught this?
So I tried, "Das ist nicht unseres," and it was accepted. Then I see that the official translation is, "Das ist nicht unserer."
See my confusion?
Well, it looks like I'm the only one who put unserem. I thought that das counted as neutral, and the accusative neutral definite article is dem, so... where am I going wrong? It looks like my thinking was the same as mizzoth's above, but I still don't understand the answers.
In this case, "das" is a demonstrative pronoun". So, for example, it could be used both in "Das ist..." and "Das sind..."
"Dem" is not accusative, but dative of "der" and "das" (definite articles).
"Ist" (or, in general, the verb "sein" and some others) requires a nominative complement, not accusative or dative.
I think that unserer, unseres and unsere would all be valid here, since in English "that" is not specific to any gender and we don't know about "what" we are talking about - which could then be any gender in German.
I thought that the object is Das which to me seems obviously neuter. Therefore I used the only word that didn't work. "Unserem" as I took the sentence as Dative (I'm in [Dat: Pronouns]) I see nothing to indicate that "Das" would be feminine, or Masculine, unless it's both... then In this case "Ours" would have to be plural if the case is Genitive... (then what about ist singular?) Dafür, Ich verstehe es nicht. I'm just going to have to parrot Duo. Where did I go wrong? I've read all the responses here; and, I'm still perplexed.
you wrote that possessive pronouns are declined like DEFINITE articles. I thought that possessive pronouns were declined like INDEFINITE articles. So the dative ("indefinite article-like") versions would be unserem (M), unserer (F), unserem (N), unseren (Pl). Please correct me if need be- I am an American just learning German.
No, not all forms, that seems wrong. I used unserem, which is not accepted; and, for me this example was in the [Dative Pronoun] section. I'm confused because 'Das', if I had to choose seems neuter; and as far as being ours, we only know it as a "Das" whatever that would be.
If nominative, Das would have to be masculine, to have an er ending. Right? If possessive because of "ours", then genitive plural, which would work for the given answer of unserer. So, is Das here then a Genitive plural?!?
But that brings me back to ist singular; but I've seen some German sentences use ist on plural things, like Kleidung. Die Kleidung ist schmutzig for example. So, if we're talking about clothes, then does that show Genitive (origin or possession [both in this case]) and plural. Therefore the correct answer is "unserer". (Whew, I'm sweating! lol) But, it does beg the question of why were other posts, said accepted.
unser- (-), (es), (e), (er indicated corect by Duo). I wish someone from Duo would step in and help on this one. Or a native speaker! :-)
So what I feel I'm hearing is that since the gender is unstated, any gendered ending is acceptable. If so, then what is the case? For me, if not [Dative Pronoun] then this is one of those perfect examples of something that is anything but Dative. lol Again, another exception that proves the rule. Unless of course, 'Das' in dative is feminine. So? A case of several women who share the same dress? :-/
I don't know if you still need an answer but I'll try. "Das" here is a demonstrative pronoun; it has no gender and isn't declined. It just means "that." "Das ist ein Haus. Das ist eine Frau. Das ist ein Mann."
The verb "sein" is in the 3rd person singular, "ist," which is the grammatical equivalent of an equal sign. "Das ist mein Hut" ... "Das = mein Hut" ... "That = my hat."
This means that whatever follows "sein" is going to be in the nominative case, in this case "unserer, unsere, unseres." These are, as ZeiDs pointed out, independent possessive pronouns which stand in for nouns and get declined as such. "Das Stein? Das ist unserer." But when you actually include the noun, it becomes "Das ist unser Stein," because the noun itself is telling you the gender, (or at least whether or not it's feminine).
You can't have "unserem" with "ist" because ist triggers the nominative. You'd need an intransitive verb like "helfen." "Wir helfen unserem Pferd."
Hopes this helps.
Duden: "Steht das Possessivpronomen [hier, UNSER] stellvertretend für ein Substantiv, hat die männliche Form im Nominativ Singular die Endung -er [i.e., UNSERER], die sächliche im Nominativ und Akkusativ Singular die Endung -(e)s [i.e., UNSERES]."
Not mentioned here, but I think that the feminin form of the independent possessive pronoun UNSER in Nominative is UNSERE.
That is very helpful. I have just been using my understanding of English to determine the case of a German sentence, thinking that the same kind of rules follow for English. German verbs, like English define the case, like the presence of a preposition, or a pronoun. So nominative takes a finite verb because "It is", presuming "It" is a contextually subject available from a previous sentence, and therefore "That is." can stand alone in a sentence. At least that's the (an?) English accepted grammer equivalent. Nominative is naming, and so here "That" = "Ours"
So, in German, the modification needed would be to know the gender of the subject; so, for this example, in English gender doesn't matter (exception being genitive cases), and in German gender does matter; but here it is not given context by Duo, and so all genders are accepted. Since "That", is singular or plural, we can accept with "That" as the subject, both are acceptable, so this would mean for German and Duo, using three gender forms including plural is good. But, nominative, the plural is also the (f) form, so whether plural, or not, it's moot here. So we have (unserer(m), unsere(f,p), unseres(n))
The next question I had was regarding the genitive case. I was thrown off by "ours" but it looks like from your previous posts; this can be genitive also, and Duo accepts the genitive form too, perhaps. In this case "ours" is an independent personal pronoun, and for genitive (unseres(m,n), unserer(f,p)) and I believe other posts say these are also accepted.
Regarding Dative: I don't have much to say on this, as I got it wrong. (In fact it seems to be the only incorrect form) I presumed since it was the [Dat: Pronoun] section that this was a dative sentence. But, as one pointed out for Latin: to give, or suitable for giving, and no one is giving anything away here, in fact the exact opposite; it must not be Dative. Plus, dative requires an indirect object, and if this sentence has any indirect objects, we don't know what they are... so I can presume if it (whatever it is) had been stated, it could have been Dative, but probably more likely Genitive.
That leaves Accusative: For which this is definitely not that.
Does this seem right?
I like this answer; do you have a reference link? Why is it nominative and not Dative or Accusative?
I found this lesson online: And, this sentence seems to be more than one case. Duo claims apparently it is one: Nominative, and Masculine. OTOH, several have pointed out that Duo also accepts other answers, which in this example, would be a case/gender difference.
While I agree that it IS an Independent Possessive Pronoun, it doesn't seem clear to me what case it is, and then there's the question of gender. Although your answer worked, and it was marked right by Duo; how confident are you; and what source could you site?
It's the nominative case because of the verb, "sein". "Sein" and some other verbs require the nominative case. Just as "gehören" and "helfen" (and some others) always require the dative case.
In general, one has to look at the verb in question, and possibly (frequently, in fact) also at the preposition(s) used, to know which case is the case.
Regarding the possessive pronoun, they can in general be used just like an article, before a noun ("Begleiter"), or as complement ("Ersatz"). (See here.) Because in our case here it is not clear what the genre of the thing we are talking about is, all genres are acceptable. Just as ryandiaz3290 wrote above.
You may also look at az_p's post with the gramatically correct answers.
I'm going to try, "Das gehört uns nicht.", and "Das gehört nicht uns." to see if they are accepted. There is a reason we should be using 'uns', and not 'unserer' (unlearned genitive I think) in this lesson.
TRIED & TESTED:
WRONG: unser, unsere, unseren
CORRECT: unseres, unserer, (unserem), (uns)
(I haven't tried yet.)
If that's the case, then their bubble answer version doesn't allow us to do that. So, given that information, what is it they want us to respond? Unserer! Because they give it as the answer. How is this to be known because as a Dative example, none of the bubble answers work. So, how do we know which case it is? I think I'll just have to remember that: Das gehört uns nicht. is the right answer, click off bubble answers.... get it right, and report it as the answer is not given.
I would argue that, like many of the phrases this app teaches, "das ist nicht unser(e,er,-)" is rather unsound grammar. I think a more proper phrasing would be the following: "das gehoert uns nicht" (that does not belong to us). To my knowledge, "sein" does not function in this way auf deutsch.
There's nothing wrong with this sentence, although I also remember having difficulty understanding it at first.
It's important to understand the difference between a possessive determiner and a possessive pronoun. Determiners need a noun, but pronouns replace the noun completely. A possessive determiner is "our" in "that is our boat". A possessive pronoun is "ours" in "that is ours". You see they're deceptively similar, but there's an important difference for this sentence.
In German, possessive determiners for masculine and neuter nouns in nominative case (and neuter nouns in accusative case) don't need an ending. You can say das ist unser Hund or ich verkaufe mein Buch, where unser and mein don't have any 'ending'.
However, possessive pronouns always need an ending. This is a bit annoying, because it means you need to know the gender of the thing you're not mentioning... In the real world, outside Duolingo, context will make it clear: Ist das euer Hund? - Ja, das ist unserer. Or: Verkaufst du dein Buch? - Ja, ich verkaufe meines. Here the possessive pronouns get an ending to match the noun that's being talked about, in the appropriate case: -er for the dog in nominative case, -es for the book in accusative case.
The problem with this translation on Duolingo is we don't know what's being talked about - but as other comments mention, any gendered pronoun in nominative case (i.e. unserer/unsere/unseres) should be accepted.
I have listened many times the dativobjekt as the first element of the sentence, e.g. "Mir ist es egal". I have written in the exercise "Uns gehört das nicht", following the same idea, and it was marked wrong. Can somebody explain me why is wrong, or is it simply a mistake of Duolingo?
Ok thanks. In which case is common to use the dativobjekt as the first element? I live in Germany, and I hear constantly "mir ist egal" (even without the "es", I guess that's not correct), "mir passt das", "mir gefällt das", etc. Is there any rule, it's just in some common expressions with no reason, or maybe I'm hearing dialekt (I live in the badisch-speaking area of Baden-Württemberg)?
"That is not ours" might be the answer to either question: 1) Whose xy is that or 2) To whom does xy belong? 1 would imlpy "Wessen xy ist das?" That is the Genitiv case, and "wessen" usualy implies that you would use the Genitiv in the answer. 2 would imply "Wem gehört xy?", which is the Dativ singalling question word. Or is it? It is still asking for the owner, for the possession. It is a little bit tricky. Anyway I would still default to Genitiv in the answer. Yet you can still use the Dativ.. lost me yet?
Here is an example for 1: For each genus (e.g. Wessen Mann/Frau/Kind ist das?) the answer would be: "Das ist nicht unserer/unsere/unseres" - in every day use you'd shorten to "unseres" to "unsers"
example for 2: Wem gehört dieser Mann/ diese Frau/ dieses Kind? You could use the same answers as in 1. Or you could say: Er/Sie/Es gehört nicht uns. And that would be Dativ.
Interestingly even most German native speakers are getting confused with the correct usage of Dativ and Genitiv. As for myself, I feel pretty winded already trying to explain it properly without confusing myself.
In germany it get's more and more common to use the Dativ instead of the Genitiv, even though this often leads to some questionable grammar.
Some guy even wrote a book about this called "Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod" ( The dativ is the death of the genitiv). The title of the book itself is an example of this, as it is written using the dativ case instead of the correct genitiv ("Der Dativ ist der Tod des Genitivs" or "Der Dativ ist des Genitivs Tod").
It is very confusing.
Best thing I've found on how to place nicht: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~german/Grammatik/WordOrder/MainClauses.html#negations
Your answer is a correct german sentence, but it does not translate to "That is not ours". Instead it translates to sth like "That does not belong to ours" (not sure whether this is a correct english sentence or not). If you want to say "Thas does not belong to us", you have to say "Das gehört uns nicht".
The articles for nominative case are der/die/das/die for masc/fem/neut/pl respectively. The endings of these articles correspond to the endings that you see turning up all over the place - including on the ends of these words (called possessive pronouns).
Just as the articles are modified in the other cases (den/die/das/die for accusative, dem/der/dem/den for dative, etc.), the possible endings for the possessive pronouns follow the same pattern.
This sentence, Das ist nicht _____ is in nominative case, because the verb ist ('standard'/infinitive form: sein) always uses nominative case. If you had a different example, with a different verb (most other verbs, actually), you would have accusative case and could use unseren for a masculine object.
There has been no explanation as to why -er- is added to the end of unser.
I am getting tired of memorizing sentences. Memorization is not understanding. I wish the lessons were more exhaustive. These discussion groups are just not cutting it. Many of the comments are poorly written and many times the writer has no idea what they are talking about.
Sorry. Just venting. I know it's free and I shouldn't complain because of that. However, it's not free if this has just been a waste of time.
Check Possessive Pronouns > Independent Possessive Pronouns in https://deutsch.lingolia.com/en/grammar/pronouns/possessive-pronouns
Why there was no option similar to "Das gehört uns" , because generslly speaking, I was able to conclude that the possessive pronouns in English, like mine, yours, ours, are replaced in German by belongs to me, or to you or to us. I thought that the direct use of possessive pronouns alone is not wide spread in German. Furthermore, regarding the declension of unser, why the feminine declension was used? Why not unseren, for example or why not unserem? Etwas, for example is always used as a singular masculine, and Manche is always used as plural. So, why unser will be considered as singular feminine, rather than considering it either singular masculine or plural?
"Das" is a demonstrative pronoun, meaning a pronoun that demonstrates what something is. I imagine it like an arrow pointing at something: "Das → ein Hund," or an equal sign: "Das = ein Hund."
"Dass" is a conjunction, or a word that introduces a new clause: "Ich denke, dass wir ein Problem haben." It acts just like the demonstrative pronoun except that [dass] it's pointing to a clause instead of a word, and as you may have noticed, it sends the verb to the end: "Ich denke → wir ein Problem haben."
You can drop "dass" in some cases, but if you do, the verb no longer goes to the end but remains in 2nd place: "Ich denke, wir haben ein Problem." I believe this is more colloquial though (and common), but not strictly "good" German. But someone correct me if it's more or less accepted these days.