https://www.duolingo.com/MichielVan617189

Not happy with the 'Crowns'

Is it possible te restore te 'old situation'. I accepted the change to the 'crowns'. I'm not happy with that.

April 6, 2018

58 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/AliT.Firef

Also not happy.

Firstly, they are extraordinarily repetitive, and according to some users on another thread (the 'time warp with crowns ' one) they don't increase in difficulty as you persist. I concentrated just on going up from the level 2 - which DL put me on - to level 3 in some early lessons in two languages: I haven't tried to get to level 5, but if things don't get any more challenging, where in the world is the interest? Or the point?

Secondly: I have been writing complicated sentences in Spanish, using the conditional and the subjunctive, for months now: but with this new system I'm apparently deemed not to be bright enough to write 'yo soy una mujer' for myself, I just get to click on proffered words. This all feels like insulting my intelligence/ dumbing down. There should be the opportunity to write sentences in the target language without word-choices from level 2 onwards, at least.

Thirdly: it's really hard to see how I've progressed from the previous session. And how come I have a crown level of 150 in a language where I haven't completed the tree and where my 'other' level is 15 (according to my profile page - it's still 14 according to the badges above. PLEASE don't tell me you're phasing these out. People who have been on the site for a while need a consistent tracking device), and a crown level of 115 in one where I've completed the damn thing and kept it gold for a while, and my 'other' level is two higher. Not to mention that I can read a newspaper in the second and would struggle to read a kid's book in the first: the levels have never reflected that, but it's worse now.

I think these things need fixing BEFORE you roll the system out.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/grumpy700875

"Secondly: I have been writing complicated sentences in Spanish, using the conditional and the subjunctive, for months now: but with this new system I'm apparently deemed not to be bright enough to write 'yo soy una mujer' for myself, I just get to click on proffered words."

Had my questions about that too, but after doing some lessons and after I tried to go (incredible fast compared to the old one) to crown level five I actually like it.

You have shorter units now which makes it easier to perfectly fill out the time you have to for DL at a certain moment.

I have one hand free to do other things (like eating) because I just have to click with the mouse with one hand and don't have to reach all over my dinner plate in order to reach the keyboard or screen - I really love this - I just wish I could chose that this works over complete lessons by choice.

In my opinion the best way to learn is the mix between easy repetition and by choosing between offered words and more thinking and remembering by typing and that's actually exact what they offer here.

So why don't you just click the "Use keyboard" button which you will find under the word tabs? ;-)

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/grumpy700875

Update:

I also "suffer from broken keyboard syndrome" which makes that I I had to type sentences over and over again because letters sometimes appeared multiple times and other times not at all. A real bummer with long sentences, additionally I am a bad typer which brought the whole things right down to agony. What a relieve now, especially when I am additionally tired and exhausted and yet would like to do some exercise. Now I can go the easy way and use the word tabs in the tired moments and the more challenging way with typing when I feel up to it and have more time.

Thumbs up for DL for that, I don't have to turn in my laptop for keyboard replacement and DL is fun again. Just please offer lessons that can be done all the way without typing with the choice to use switch to typing.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Barry743067

I don't really care if DL uses fluency levels, which don't mean much anyway, or crowns, which seem to mean nothing that I can figure out. I logged into DL this morning and did some work in the old system, and then when I logged back in again this afternoon, I saw all the changes with the crowns and the tree. My one criticism is this: I've made it through 25 levels of Italian, and as I keep working on Italian, there's really nothing that continues to increase the difficulty level. Now with the new tree configuration, and the new levels, I started back with the basics, which is in a sense ridiculous, but going through all the levels, how many times is it really necessary to be typing things like, I am the man, She eats an apple, They drink water, and so forth. I don't mind working on simple sentences, but can't DL "up" the vocabulary levels so that we're learning new words?

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/perrybw59

Every time Duolingo makes a change it isn't to add more lessons or vocabulary or grammar... it's to add some "bell and whistle" gem, crown, or other "incentive". I am growing really sick of it really fast. And they want people to pay for this! When they make it possible to turn off all of the "incentive" junk and just offer good, solid language lessons I'll consider paying for it. Meanwhile, how do we turn off the stupid crowns?

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ofred19

This is demonstrably untrue. French is in the process of rolling out a tree update which adds 16 new skills and, quote "hundreds of new words". Spanish likewise is in the process of testing a new tree which apparently adds dozens of new skills. I just got an update to my Dutch tree that, by my reckoning, added somewhere in the realm of 60 new skills. And at the very least 500 words that I hadn't encountered while achieving level 25 under the old tree. Stories was very much a new thing to me when I returned to Duolingo back in December, and since I rejoined they've added 10 stories each to Portuguese and Spanish, and 20 in German and French.

And I would also disagree with the declaration that the Crowns don't add anything regarding language competency. The only way to achieve fluency in a language is to run through reps. Hundreds upon thousands of reps over the course of years. For everything that the old system was, it definitely didn't systematize that process. You reach the end of the tree, and there wasn't really a whole lot to do or pursue past that point, particularly once you hit level 25. The new system gives you something to work for: a reason to come back and keep practicing the already learned skills. Yes they took out the SRS, and that's a major bummer, as the SRS was a major selling point of the old system. But the development team says they're looking into ways to re-incorporate SRS, and I look forward to seeing what they come up with.

Personally the only reasons I can see for having a serious problem with the Crown update are:

1) You primarily were using Duolingo for timed practice and the SRS system and they took that away. This is 100% a valid complaint, but hopefully one that will be fixed in the coming months.

2) You had some visual achievement you were proud of that got taken away; either the golden owl or the golden tree (levels stay the same). I mean that's a bummer; it's discouraging to have that visual representation of your personal achievement taken away. I lost my Dutch golden owl because of the tree update. But that also means I get more content. I get more Dutch to learn. I get a new external motivation to keep working and keep exercising.

Moreover, the object, surely, is to learn a new language, and not get e-trophies which nobody can see except yourself, yes? The knowledge you had before is still there. None of the progress towards your actual goal has been taken away. Any external motivation (i.e. progress down the tree/towards golden tree) has been kept in place. It's less that you got taken out of the race, and more that you've finished 300 meters of what you thought was a 400 meter race, and were just told it was actually an 800 meter race. Given the serious undertaking that learning a language is (a years-long, if not lifelong undertaking), this really isn't such a big deal.

2a) On the topic of "losing all your progress and having to repeat Basics I and II dozens upon dozens of times", this, again, only applies to wanting to obtain a golden tree, as progression towards the golden owl only requires you to achieve CL1, which takes 10 minutes or less if none of the information is new to you. But if you're trying to gild the skill, I think it's perfectly doable without endless tedious repetitions. Just expand your time scale. Here's my personal strategy for regilding German, French and Spanish:

I do 100 XP per language per day, that's 10 reps per day. I break that down to 4 reps in skill A, 3 in skill B, 2 in skill C, 1 in skill D. I randomly pick 4 skills to work on for the day (via a RNG), assign them to A-D and run through my day like so: A-B-C-D-A-B-C-A-B-A. It takes about a half hour per language to get through that. And I'm not repeating the same exercises a dozen times. And assuming other posters' calculations that gilding the tree takes ~40,000 XP, I anticipate it'll take me a yearish to get my tree back assuming I do this every day and given the crowns I already have in those respective trees. I won't get it back tomorrow, no. But I don't need it tomorrow. Nobody can see the thing except for me. It has no meaning to anybody other than me.

I assume there's not some massive pressing reason why you need to get your tree gilded within a week. If the goal is to learn the language, binging on 40k XP in a month or whatever won't help you anyway. The whole point behind the gamification is to create an environment where you can invest small, quantifiable practice increments in the language every day (pretty much THE way to learn a language), and receive positive reinforcement for something that otherwise is a thankless and seemingly unimpactful task. The point isn't to binge on the same thing for hours. The point is to spend 30 minutes running through a couple exercises a couple times and then leaving it for the next day.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/AliT.Firef

Yes you need to repeat, but you need to repeat with changes. The point of learning a language through a computer system is that, like a computer game, it gives you a sense of advancing in difficulty. So no, if I have to repeat 'Yo soy una mujer' twenty times I won't do it. I'll probably find a way to manage this, but I won't go back to try for level 5 in an early section.

If there really is new material matching the levels, then great: I can only say that my brief experiments with Spanish and Welsh didn't find anything new. I got some ridiculous score like 450 points, went up a level in both languages, and still felt I was wasting my time completely.

For what it's worth I think 1) The new system isn't ready yet. There may well come a time when it will be, but before it's rolled out it needs to have very substantial new content in place throughout all the trees (or only roll it out on those trees that have the resources and time to provide that).

What would that be? Well, as many have pointed out, new vocabulary is an obvious choice for higher levels in the early stages. But it also needs to increase the difficulty of the exercises. How about rolling out the 'story' system, currently only in very select places - I've only been offered them in Spanish, though maybe that's because my German isn't at that level yet - as integral exercises from mid-tree onwards, above say level 3? Or at least longish passages with blanks to fill in? Or comprehension questions on newspaper articles - multiple choice would make it technically feasible? That's the sort of advance which will keep us coming back.

2) For those of us who have been working for a long time with the old system, a change in reckoning of advance is confusing - and I also appreciated the way that the old system suggested one or two things every day which I needed to revise, based on what I hadn't looked at for a while. On the other hand, a major downside of the old system was that once you'd completed a tree there wasn't much else to do.

It seems to me that the place for crowns - once the new content is fully in place, not before - is as a proffered upgrade once you come to the end of the basic (old-system) tree. Now I'm not a complete ingrate; I know that proper new content will take a hell of a lot of work, and I get all this free, (an' I love ya for it). I would certainly consider paying for a fully-developed, advanced, complex, 'next-level' range of Spanish exercises. (Hm, that said, paying in sterling ... I get charged ridiculous amounts for small payments in dollars!).

,

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ofred19

I agree with most of this. I think there are definitely some areas where Crowns can be improved, but the thing that makes me really excited about Crowns are the opportunities it opens up for the dev teams. I think there are now lots of opportunities for adding new and complex sentences, as well as decluttering the tree.

One thing I would love to see would be for incremental crown levels to be blocked until you reach/unlock later skills. So say that Animals I at CL4 starts to introduce complex sentences (using el gato and el pájaro) but implementing conditional or subjunctive constructions, so the skill is locked until you've completed the Subjunctive skill up to CL2, that sort of thing. I think a big problem with Duolingo as it has existed over the years is there's too much focus on words, with the apparent assumption that grammar is something you'll pick up as a consequence of being around the words. I think the Crown system offers the dev teams greater opportunities to push grammar on learners without overwhelming them with massive trees or too-difficult questions that they receive too early.

The system is incomplete because the dev teams have been designing their courses around the old system. I really think this is going to be an incredible step forward for duolingo as a site once we start seeing the dev teams incorporating the new system into their tree updates/refinements.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/aaronheiss

It seems to me that nobody defending the "crown" system appreciates just how useful the gilded icons were to probably a majority of "advanced" (meaning more than half-done with a skill tree) language learners.

And nobody defending the "crown" system seems to appreciate just how demoralising it is to have to go through hundreds of utterly pointless repetitive drills at the most elementary level to regain the sense of one's mastery being acknowledged.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

I think you would be correct to say that those advanced users more pleased with the crown system are likely to have been less prone to attach a particular sense of accomplishment to the color of the skill circles. At some point or other I think there are four trees I have had gold. Three of those were very long gone at the time of the transition. Keeping a tree gold did not motivate me if I felt I had mastered the vast majority of the content of the tree.

The forums have long been full of people complaining that their skills degild too quickly to keep up with. It was very clear that a tactic many employed was to keep the tree gold before moving on. Do I understand the sense of dislocation those users are facing now? Yes, I do. I never particularly felt that the gilding system met my needs, and it took me some time to work out my own system. I don't know yet how I will adapt my system to account for crowns, but determining that is a challenge I look forward to.

If I were to point out a seeming blind spot among those objecting to the system, it would be the lack of appreciation of the very deep flaws in the prior system. Namely I refer to the very limited usefulness of the entire Duolingo set-up brought about by the lack of translation into the target language. This I viewed from approximately the day I signed up as an inexplicable and crippling lack. There have been reverse trees of course, but these were a kludge around a fundamental problem of conceptualization. It is this problem that skill levels address. The features that are missing for now can over time be brought back and reestablished on this much firmer pedagogical foundation.

I certainly don't love everything about the crown system. For one, I was a very dedicated user of timed practice (it was actually a linchpin of my system for using the site). I think it's very unfortunate that that was not integrated with the crown system. But I so prefer the more difficult exercise mix I get now that I still greatly prefer the new system overall. (And that's even without considering the fact that Luis has already mentioned that they are working on integrating many of the features that have gone missing into the new system.)

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/grumpy700875

Nobody and nothing actually forces you to go through hundreds repetitions at the most elementary levels. If your reasonable judgement of your skills tells you that you mastered those level, you can focus on the highest levels, which btw. automatically will increase the basic skills with the time. You probably noticed on the old method, that you got not one but two lessons awarded with the progress of the level bar, that's what I am talking about. The most speedy way to increase your skill level is to work from the bottom up and not the other way because you will train basic skills in the higher level but you wont bump into the option to train - let's say gerundium or plusquamperfect in the basis levels, simply because they don't exist there.

Find this post here in this forum (sorry forgot how to post links to single comments)

"Quasito

<pre>22 11 185 </pre>

After reading these I have changed my mind ..."

It contains two links that explain nicely how it works.

It's actually this kind of info and just trying to go through a few basic and advanced skill levels that change my dislike of the new features into a like. Since the change I almost fly through the lessons and I am back from demotivated 10 XP to more than 100 a day. The good thing is that you can race through the first skills in no ttime in order to refresh your knowledge and that will give you time to just focus and invest more time to the more advanced skills.

Just forget the basic skills, if you are sure you really mastered them. You will find out by yourself if or when you notice that you make increasingly mistakes in basic stuff. Then it's still time to refresh them and it will be fast and painless because you only have to refresh them.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/aaronheiss

grumpy700875 -- in other words, you're telling us to ignore that Duo is giving us an inaccurate assessment of our abilities. That is a bug, not a feature.

And as to your suggestion: do you seriously expect that anyone who has finished out a language tree will ever need a refresher on how to say "no" and "thank you" and such?

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

And as to your suggestion: do you seriously expect that anyone who has finished out a language tree will ever need a refresher on how to say "no" and "thank you" and such?

The answer to that is, yes. "Alstublieft" is, in fact, a word I've had trouble with. It doesn't really show up lower in the course. Or let's take Japanese. In the very first skills (the only relevant scope of discussion is skills; even if it's only to have you review the hardest few terms, it's going to be the skill you're reviewing) they include not just the typical short versions of these things, they include lengthy fixed expressions that only appear in the bare minimum of sentences. So, yes, there is cause to review these skills. And then there's the matter of actually learning to type them...

I provide the foregoing as an answer to a question only. I certainly am not implying that my deficiencies in Dutch or Japanese imply any lacunae in anybody else's competence in anything. However, my situation does show why utter mastery of the basics cannot simply be assumed.

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/AliT.Firef

OK, after three days I'm beginning to get used to it, and to see advantages to having more material. It would have helped if DL had announced this change in advance and explained basic things like how to change from word-choice to typing or how to uncover the Notes and Tips before the change happened, not in a FAQ but on everybody's welcome page, rather than relying on different users to find out and assuming that everybody reads discussion threads. I'm sure they've lost quite a few users just because of that.

Still, there are real issues. The directed revision was a REALLY useful feature. Without it, everyone's first reaction is to go back to the start, and since the levels haven't been thought through at least in the early stages, to bore themselves rigid. Then you realise you're not obliged to do that, but how do you decide what to revise? I've resorted to random selection!!

Another useful feature which I miss a lot is the 'strengthen' button for revision. Sure, without it, I revise a whole exercise and, if I'm lucky and careful, I get a lot more XP than I used to. Does that mean that I actually learn more? Frankly, I'm not convinced - not in proportion to the rising points score, anyway. And I waste - euhrm, spend - a lot more time on DL to get them.

Also on the subject of revision, this new system presumably means that once you've hit Level 5, the system will NEVER prod you to go back to that exercise again, even if you haven't looked at it in months. That may not matter at the very bottom of the basics, but after about Skill 6 it might, since not everything in earlier exercises recurs in later ones (a general issue in both old and new systems).

So OK, I think I can live with crowns in principle, but some small tweaks please - 1) bring back directed revision in some form 2) please please don't repeat sentences exactly within any clutch, at least vary the vocabulary. The idea of locking the higher levels of the lowest skills until the learner has passed a certain checkpoint, so that they can bring in more advanced material , was a brilliant one.
3) Make the 'crown level' actually proportionate to level and not just numerical, so that taller trees don't generate ridiculous numbers of crowns. (Or else water the Spanish tree till it grows as tall as the Welsh one).

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

I would say the levels work fine for the early stages, too. The mix of exercises at higher levels is much, much harder. Of course, they're still to easy for the advanced, but useful for people not as far along. The problem for those with more experience is the lack of a quiz-out option.

I don't think it's a problem that different numbers of crowns are available in different trees. Some are longer than others. That means you can get more lingots from them, more XP going through them. More XP reviewing them to retain the greater amount of content. Crowns are just another entry on the list.

The problem of the same sentence showing up multiple times in a single practice session is, unfortunately, a longstanding issue. I do wish they would fix it.

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/grumpy700875

@ aaronheiss

" in other words, you're telling us to ignore that Duo is giving us an inaccurate assessment of our abilities. That is a bug, not a feature."

I tested out in English in no time and had a golden tree and in no time it "ungolded" again when I switched for a while to other languages. So, was I perfect with the golden tree or do I not speak or understand English anymore when the gold is gone? The answer is no in both cases.

To be honest, I personally don't really care for DL's assessment of my abilities. I figure myself when it is time to go and repeat earlier lessons as soon as I make mistakes in more difficult lessons but suddenly fail not in the recent material but actually in things from more basic lessons that I simply forgot or don't pay enough attention for. If I really mastered the basics, they don't need my attention anymore, they are "in my blood". So as long as that happens I know I have to refresh and repeat.

"And as to your suggestion: do you seriously expect that anyone who has finished out a language tree will ever need a refresher on how to say "no" and "thank you" and such?"

Well there is more to the basic levels than just "no" and "thank you" and such when you learn a complete new language from the scratch and yes, I do believe that.

Once you really mastered it all, to a point where you don't need to go back to the basics, may be that might change, I can't say yet because my skills are not advanced enough. But until you reach that point you probably do go back several times. And if you don't need too, what's the problem of having less crowns in the basics as long as you mastered a level of 25? Also, in opposite to the gold the crowns wont evaporate, in my opinion this might be a better assessment. What kind of assessment is it, when you - just for fun or to refresh - test out in your native language, whoosh there is that golden tree and owl and the assessment of good skills and after you come back in a few month from learning other languages, DL informs you via brutal "degoldation" that you are a real sucker in your native language.

All the bling bling and little awards are nice and fun, but not real indications of your progress. A real valid indication of my progress is when I feel that I understand more and more and people start to understand me better. Another progress bar for me is when I have to think less during the lessons, when the right words just appear in my head and I don't have to puzzle the sentences together.

I already said it, don't be demoralized or demotivated or sad when you lose those "awards", it doesn't take away from your actually skills an when you just get 5 crowns in one or two of the most difficult skills you see and know that you mastered the earlier skills too. Who asks for the reports of your very first years in school when you got your masters or doctors degree ;-) ?

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/aaronheiss

...Piguy3, words fail. You're seriously telling me that getting asked repeatedly how to say "thank you" and "no" is a worthwhile use of my time. I don't see German in your list, but I'd be surprised if you didn't know what "nein" and "danke schön" mean. I'd bet you wouldn't be terribly pleased at the notion of telling a computer over and over and over and over again that you do.

Those early lessons have a very specific purpose: to break the ice, to get the learner introduced to the language. A few easy words, some familiarisation with the accent, a sense for how the language is spelled, those kinds of things: stuff to make the new learner feel like they can approach the subject. That is not something that should need to be repeated. If there are words in the introductory lessons that are not repeated later, that sounds to me like a problem. I think those words should be in the more advanced material, rather than making you go back to mind-numbing repetition of a lot of things you don't even need to take the language to have picked up already.

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/aaronheiss

grumpy700875 -- I've had both the "forward" and "reverse" trees gilded for the same language, too. I never took "de-gilding" as a sign that my skills in English were deficient, but rather that my skills translating between English and the other language were. It wasn't perfect, but about half the time the skills in question were things I was weak on, and the other half, the refresher in vocabulary and usage wasn't a bad idea.

Now, as others have pointed out, I'm either clicking things at random (and, incidentally, not finding much variety at all in the English-to-German tree's exercises, even at the higher levels), or working slavishly through obscene amounts of elementary stuff that should only ever be given to people just getting acquainted with the language.

And, either way I am far less motivated to log onto Duolingo.

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

I'll just quote myself here:

I provide the foregoing as an answer to a question only. I certainly am not implying that my deficiencies in Dutch or Japanese imply any lacunae in anybody else's competence in anything.

The standard phrasebook-type phrases that really are useful to know are not as widely known for other languages as they are for German. It makes sense to me that they are taught at the top of the tree.

I've already stated that I think there should be some sort of quiz-out option so that you can get the Greetings skill and whatever else, the lack of golden color of which leaves such a bitter taste in your mouth to an enduring gilded state. I feel like we've beat this particular matter to death.

I am glad you are spending some of your time reviewing skills other than ones you have completely mastered. I hope you will find something of use in so doing. I am disappointed you are not seeing the same variety of exercise types that I am seeing. It makes perfect sense to me that that would sour you on the system.

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

At least in some skills in some courses the skill levels system seems to have unlocked a reserve of sentences that previously were "disqualified" for presentation to users because they were missed too often. The lesson I did on Catalan object pronouns: largely unrecognizable. (i.e. great!) Introducing new vocab into the tree will have to wait for a new tree version, however.

Primarily, the innovation of skill levels is to engage with the same material but at a progressively deeper level. First you learn to recognize new words. Then you move into recalling them, a much more demanding task. To me it looks like the system definitely does this more effectively than the old one (e.g. more translation into target language). People's observations on this point do seem to differ, which I think is driving some of the diverse reactions.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Andresb_UY

I know you know so, remember that people who makes "the program" is not the same who makes all different courses and clearly, the objective differs.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

Certainly, but the two do interact. Before harder sentences would be forcibly "retired" if missed too often. So why write harder sentences? Without that active discouragement, contributors may well add more such sentences, in addition to those already brought back out of "retirement."

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

Such a great post! At least for me, the crown system is delivering a harder mix of exercises. I'd call them clearly better "solid language lessons" than there were previously.

One other well-founded complaint is having had a learning strategy that relied on redoing specific individual lessons (parts of skills), which is no longer possible. Perhaps it will return at some point, too.

I don't think anyone should have lost a golden owl b/c of this update. Of course losing them is a routine matter for tree version updates.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/aaronheiss

I did not lose my golden owl. I did lose my golden skill tree, which had helpfully ungilded icons for skills that Duo's algorithms said I should brush up on. Duo's algorithms weren't perfect, to be sure, but I would rather have them adjusted than thrown out altogether. Now I'm not just back to redoing elementary exercises to regain a sense of what I've mastered on the tree, I'm back to redoing them over and over and over and over again. You can have my gold owl if it means I can get back the sense of my progress that I used to have on the tree!

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ExSquaredOver2

People getting unhappy because all the gold is gone. It's harder to navigate.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/kangaroolotty

i agree!! it's incredibly irritating plus I never agreed to anything - and from the sound of it it's more than just cosmetic. There's a thread on it here; by the sound of it we have no choice unfortunately: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26739837

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/BaiPaLaura

I also prefer the old one version T.T

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/gatiquo

Very unhappy with the crowns.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/stephen380384

I was learning so well on the old system, now suddenly I feeI am back to square one having to do simple basics, I got past "the cat is black" months ago :-( Oh well, goodbye to Duolingo and I am offelsewhere

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Anderson.Peter

I want to return to the strength bars, how do I do that ?

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ExSquaredOver2

you can't i think...

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Andresb_UY
April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/SusanElias

I’m willing to give the “crown” system a chance, but I must tell you my first experience was not positive. I feel as if I’m going backwards. Can anyone provide me with some positives to inspire me? How long before to get to the level of mastery that you once were? I could use a little encouragement.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/sevabelli

This is a horrible development! Clicking on words is way too easy. I was really making progress in the old system and find this new format a waste of time. I would pay to go back....

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/acuario04

PLEASEEEEEEEEEE. It was not a good idea.... Old SYSTEM come back.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/grumpy700875

You say "I accepted the change to the 'crowns" where and how did you do that? I opened my start page and there they were? Didn't do a thing and just came here to look for discussions. Now that I read your entry I don't dare anymore to start a lesson, being afraid I accept. I absolutely do NOT like what I read. Looks like with bad typing skills and a laptop with a broken keyboard I am doomed.

April 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/grumpy700875

Sorry guys who gave me the lingots for my comments but as you can read in my new comments here I made quite more positive expirience by now than I expected to make after I was confronted with the new fea(r)ture and read the comments here.

So I finally dared and started to try out myself and to my surprise it turn out to be right the opposite of what I feared - particularly for those with bad typing skills and worn out keyboards. It works like a charm and I actually have only to redo the sentences I really build wrong and not those my keyboard messed up which were in a painfully overwhelming majority.

Just find the posts I did today.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Sigira0

Hmm lot of hate and invective. I like the new system - and at least the crown level shows some measure of how much work you have put in whereas with the ordinary levels that simply shows a measure of your XP level and that can be bumped up by simply going over the first lesson again and again and not even getting the answers right. Oh yes - and for those of you not wanting to accept the offered words to click on, as I didn't, simply click on the keyboard at the bottom of the page and you get the text box back. And it appears to stick between sessions. Sorted.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/aaronheiss

Glad to see that there's something other than hate here -- but the switch to "crowns" means that those who had already shown mastery of the really elementary stuff ("I am a boy" and such) now have to do truly insulting levels of repetitive busywork to regain it. For the first time, I no longer look forward to using Duo to brush up on my German.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/brother84

EVERYONE WHO AGREES WITH THIS PLEASE SUPPORT THIS REQUEST: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26854377

It is just a more in-depth analysis of the new Crowns system and the reasons why it would be great if they brought back some of the good old features.

Thank you.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/IUQYB4a8

I don't even know what I have to keep up (in terms of lessons). I'm so confused. This has really put me off duolingo

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/poche112

I hate the crowns.... I have worked one skill up to level four and the same sentences keep being repeated over and over... I think I saw ONE new sentence.. now it wants me to do 20 more lessons to get to crown 5 and it is still the same thing over and over. I don't see where people are saying that they are getting new and more challenging material... so far for me it has been horrible repetition .

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

I don't see where people are saying that they are getting new and more challenging material

I think the most likely place to find any "unfrozen" sentences will be in the very hardest skills of the tree. No guarantees, of course. This is definitely a tree-specific thing.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/mrmyronmoore

Not happy at all either, just one of those updates that only make an otherwise good product worse. Remember the golden rule: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/SusanElias

Although I was very disappointed with the crowns, As I move forward, I’m seeing a glimmer of light. With tenacity, I’m getting to the more difficult concepts. Let’s see where this takes us!

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Tranklements

There is an quick informal poll in the link below if you'd like to vote on how you find the new crown levels, https://www.strawpoll.me/15454199

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/sbarbour

I can’t find the notes and tips section in this new version. They are often quite helpful, and I’d like to be able to review them. Has anyone found them?

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

They're still there for the skills that have them. Click the light bulb to the right of the "Start" button for a skill. (If there are no Tips and Notes, there will be no light bulb.)

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Ken708739

At first I loathed the crowns... I decided to write down all my responses in word. But now I am a fan... repetition, repetion, repetition... and then the old system of typing and translating... well done Duolingo... it works for me.

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/antonvanrijn

I don't know of this comment is Crown-related, but I used to enjoy repeating 'old' lessons, or just to click on a subject for instance 'adverbs' and see the words I've learned so far in each lesson. This doesn't seem possible anymore. Instead I'm driven like a piece of cattle to uncharted territory...

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Sim638840

I hate crowns. You took away the fun and the challenge of learning. All my achievements with the tree degraded to the level of the beginner . On the top this exercise is extremely boring . Please, please give me back "strengthen". Sima

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/SusanElias

Like so many of you, I was dissatisfied with the Crowns newly implemented system. But I trudged forward and have gotten to present tense 2. Everything before it is now is at level 4, and I’ve been proceeding one category at a time until I reach level 4. The beginning is humbling and demoralizing especially if you have been invested in Duolingo. But, for me, I’m now being introduced to new phrases, Verbs, and active learning as before. Perhaps this would not be your approach, but it is finally working for me. It has been time consuming. Don’t give up, it gets better.

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Ken708739

I think the crowns are much more indicative of ones progress. Before that the % of fluency was a bit of joke. According to that system I was 52% fluent in Italian... even though I had only just reached 'past perfect'. I have bought 'Montalbano', 'Il Giovane Montalbano' Series 1 and 2, 'Il Commissario Nardone' and 'Il Commissario Luce' (all with subtitles) downloaded from Amazon... and I can honestly say I understood about 1% of the dialogue (more if they spoke slowly... say to a child or a deaf person). So how come I was supposed to be 52% fluent!!!!! I am also reading 'Don Camillo' by Giovanni Guareschi... suggested to me by an Italain friend and it is very funny although I can understand only 15%ish with the rest I resort to Italian -English Google. Beware of getting Montalbano books as they are written in a Sicilian dialect which is even difficult for native Italians. It's a bit like learning English taught by a Geordie! Agatino Catarella played by Angelo Russo is a hoot in 'Il Giovane Montalbano'... worth buying Series 2 just to see his performances. Ciao Ken.

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Joanna851198

Please go back to the old system. "Crowns" is frustrating as you don't seem to make any progress and have to constantly start at the beginning. Having turned completely "golden" , I am now forced to go over the basics again. I wonder if you - Duolingo - did any market research before you introduced "Crowns". It is also very frustrating that it seems impossible to contact you directly to complain about this and get some answers as to why on earth you changed the old system instead of just offering more branches on the tree which could have been topic related, incorporating more than one tense.

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26739837

With skill levels it will be much more feasible to incorporate a variety of tenses into e.g. advanced vocab skills. The lower levels can focus on easier sentences to introduce the vocab. The higher ones can have it used with conditional, subjunctive, what have you. Before sentences too often missed were "retired." Now those retired sentences have returned, and the significant disincentive for contributors to write hard sentences (because they would likely be retired) is removed.

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Pall18

If you have or buy an old Windows phone, restoration is at hand.

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/poche112

My Kindle using Android is still the old system because I have not let it update the app. I hear that there is a way to load old versions of apps on android but I don't know how to do it.

July 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Shekina05

ditto

July 5, 2018
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