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Crowns and the disruption of my learning process

Hi Duo team,

Crowns is a great feature, but you should have introduced it as an additional feature, not an overhaul of the entire system.

I have been using Duolingo for a year. I'm very thorough. I do each lesson twice before moving on. That is why my fluency is (was) 66% without having even finished the Tree. Now I can no longer click into the skill and make my way through the lessons. I cannot do a lesson over before moving on. You have disrupted my learning method, a method I have developed and worked with for a year.

Furthermore, by removing fluency percentage, you have torn the goal towards which people have been working, away from them.

The way you rolled out a new, and beneficial feature, by steam-rolling the existing UI is less than satisfactory, and beyond disruptive. I am not at all pleased. And many others, I'm sure, share this sentiment.

April 6, 2018



I agree whole-heartedly. I am totally demoralized right now! I loved Duolingo so much! Now, it is so frustrating to have to work through early and basic material for so long (especially when it is so repetitive) for what looks like minimal progress.

As for the new graphical design, it is hard for me to find what to work on, when it was so easy before. How about five shades of gold from lightest to darkest, so that you get some sense of satisfaction, at least, when you have gone through all the material once?

Another nice feature of the old system was the ability to pick and choose different lessons to redo within a given skill. I liked how the old system would remind me when it was time to strengthen a skill, instead of just assuming that my skill level would stay the same forever.

Even though the fluency system was not perfect, personally, I really liked it. It felt so good when the rating went up! The crown scoring seems almost meaningless. Which is better, completing the first 20% of the course to level 5, or the whole course to Level 1?

If something is not broken, why try to fix it? I find it hard to believe that many long time users would prefer the Crown system over the old Strengthen Skills system. I wish we could go back!


I agree wholeheartedly. I can no longer easily pick what I need to strengthen next, and although there are new words in the lower levels not yet learned, one must trawl through a lot of easier stuff to learn them. Bill.


If something is not broken, it can still be improved. However, we did not get a clear improvement because some of the previous functionality was lost.

Please take a look at my thread and upvote it if you wish the Duolingo staff to see it:

"Suggestion: How everyone would love the Crowns :)" https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26860873


I completely agree with you. ¡Please Duo! It is necessary to change.


I think that the people in charge are Scientologist. From what I understand every time a Scientologist gets close to the end of their "bridge" the lessons reset. Duolingo has done this so that you have to see the ads again or pay more money, being it will take you months if not years to redo each lesson.


I think a good strategy could be to lower the score in the Play Store until the changes requested (not having to repeat eternally what was already learned) be taken into account.


Go over to the CEFR test on the Lawless French site and take the test. That feedback, was really telling for me to realize what I was accomplishing by the reviews. My conclusions are in my posting earlier. I am interested in how you react to your results compared to your satisfaction with the old system.


I entirely agree. I had been steadily working through a number of trees, slowly and consistently re-visiting skills to make them gold and then moving on to the next one in a systematic way. Now I have no idea where I am and what I should practise next to best reinforce the material already in my memory.

The idea behind the new system is a good one, but it could have been implemented in a much more gradual way so as not to wreck people's long-established learning methods.


It was so abrupt and for ALL of my languages. I don't know if it's very every one. I'm guessing you might know. For languages below 5-8 in level it's not as jarring, but I'm left rather bereft for my French and Welsh.


I think a good strategy could be to lower the score in the Play Store until the changes requested (not having to repeat eternally what was already learned) be taken into account.


So far, I'm pretty disappointed and I'm debating whether it is worth my time to go on. I really don't care whether the boy has a dog, the girl has a cat or the children eat an apple. This type of vocabulary is worthless to me when trying to communicate with French-speaking grown-ups on trips. I started Duolingo more than a year ago because I thought it would be a nice way to brush up on French that I had studied years ago, but my initial enthusiasm is fading rapidly.

At age 80, I can't afford to put time into things that don't meet my goals.


I confess to feeling the same. At 67% fluent in German and at level 25, I worked daily to maintain my standard. When I logged in today and discovered the "crowns" I was initially quite excited, because I assumed that this would be an "upgrade", a bigger test of my already substantial skill. What a disappointment! Most of my crowns are marked at level 3, some even as low as 2. I have had to complete 200+ xp today in order to get from level 3, to a level 4, repeating, over and over, the same basic sentences. Language learning should be fun whilst remaining a challenge. The Crowns have removed the fun and made it dull, boring and repetitive. Im not sure how, or even if, I will continue now.


They updated the French course recently, and since I had not regilded everything before the crown update, this means I have units I finished (and since maintained gilded) over a year ago at "level zero". This causes even more tiresome repetition in addition to the new nature of the general DL experience.


Yes Welsh-girl I feel the same as you and everyone else. The incentive to learn has been taken away, I had a particular routine of working and I have no idea where to go from here.


I am marveling at your accomplishments within the Duo world. However I wonder if your success has been evaluated by an outside European Language proficiency test? Are your results the same? Mine weren't. I tested out lower than I expected, and in the back of my mind I knew why but I brushed those concerns aside, because I WAS so busy chasing the Duo carrots. I now think, for myself, i have to diversify. and spend more time offline studying.


Don't be so hard on yourself! What do you want to accomplish with your language learning? I was reaching my perhaps modest goals, more so than I ever believed possible. I don't need an outside test to tell I can read and understand a LOT of Swedish now. I read Swedish articles, I watch Swedish shows almost exclusively. And that was and continues to be my goal. But maybe not here.


I agree with AggieScott. My reasons for studying French on DL are the same. When speaking with French people I need sentences for every day conversation not 'he is a man/woman etc.' I know you forget words over time but I started the French course over 3 years ago and have been doing it regularly so I do not need to go back to the first level. We need a course to expand our knowledge of a language and the new system is a step backwards.


One good strategy could be to lower the score in the Play Store until the changes requested (not having to repeat eternally what was already learned) be taken into account.


If you are tired of repeating sentences about the men who are rich and calm, you can click the blue practice bar (a barbell on the app) on the right side of the screen, and it will give you a lesson on your level with more challenging vocabulary.. It often seems to be a mixture of lessons. On the old system, just doing that would keep my whole tree gold, so I did not have to decide what to review. It probably won't affect your crowns on the new system, but it may be a better workout. Right now, I am combining that with the crowns, but I do the crown levels while watching television or something since there is so much easy repetition.


Unfortunately they have clarified in the FAQ that using the barbell practice will never produce a visual progression - that is, no apparent increase in crown levels nor any gilding of skills you should obviously be more than familiar with. If they can work around this flaw, I would be more receptive of this new system.


Not never. Just doesn't at the moment. They're trying to find a way to integrate it all, it's just going to take some time.


Yeah, I agree with you. Overall the feedback is important from real students, it would help if they were a little more gentle with their assessments, and generalizations.


i wish I had read your comment before I commented to her reminder. What we all need is a visual measurement marker. But for that marker to be effective over time, it has to be attached to real meaning. For my first year, the proficiency and decay and gold bars were motivators, but they have lost some of their influence, because they appear from my results on an outside of Duo assessment test, to not be so descriptive of my true accomplishments. I conclude d that my mind is gaming the system. And I need to do some things differently, and probably offline


I think that the best to do is to do the barbell repetitions and stop caring about the crowns


interesting point. I am definitely going to go back to the barbells and pay attention to them, I stopped useing them in the early levels.


I tried the barbell and got easy, basic stuff. I have finished the course and came back to review.


The barbell selects a bundle of words from your wordlist which are marked as least strong. You're seeing easy, basic stuff because it's been a long time since you've seen those words. Spaced Repetition programs like the barbell require regular and consistent practice to function properly. You'll find, if you just start up the barbell, or return to the barbell after a long absence, that you'll be quizzed on things you know well for the first couple weeks. Once you restrengthen those skills though, then you'll start to see a much wider collection of things you need to work on.


Ok I get it. But my concern isn't over vocabulary., especially "recognition". I feel satisfied with what I have in my leaky brain for vocabulary recognition and production, within a misspelling of a letter or two. My problem is on sentence production, and that means grammar.

i am going to start using the barbell in any case after reading your comments. However I have a much stronger concern over "grammar production "


I keep hoping to get to that point. and Iput off the barbell. I think it was another weak point in my concern over efficiency in getting to the goal


Hey! you make a good point which I think we forget, while just focusing on the decay of our fluency percentages.


I agree with you. I'm slightly younger than you but I find that the need to go through so many repetitions is actually causing pain in my fingers. I wouldn't mind extra exercises if they were actually something new, but I am hurting myself typing the same sentences over and over again


I agree totally, AggieScott. I find the whole reorganisation demoralising and frustrating, not to mention unnecessary. Has duolingo explained the changes anywhere?


80?!! Vous me semble jeune et vous êtes encore très belle! Quel est votre secret?!


I think a good strategy could be to lower the score in the Play Store until the changes requested (not having to repeat eternally what was already learned) be taken into account.


I completely agree... Duolingo seriously should give us the option of either testing out of skills we already know or going back to the older system; I think the fluency meter was extremely inaccurate, but having a level 3 on Basics 1 when I've been speaking a language for 6 years and am looking to practice complex conjugation is just insulting. The amount of times I'd have to type stupid things like "I am a girl" to have a golden tree again is seriously demoralizing. A lot of users are commenting that we should just move on and not focus on making all skills level 5, but the point is that the tree no longer reflects my actual mastery of the language.


Yes please. Give us the option to Test out!


Yes the 'test out' option was really good, I agree Flyalot


the point is that the tree no longer reflects my actual mastery of the language

Gold skills were never some kind of trophy you could just count on keeping. I've only ever had golden trees in three languages, I think, and two of them were long departed at the time of the changeover.

If what you were looking to focus on is complex conjugation, then why did you bother to keep the entire tree, which after all is mostly about things much simpler than complex conjugation, golden? Looked at from a different angle, this change is an opportunity for you to refocus your efforts on what you really need since the incentive to keep things golden for the sake of keeping them golden is gone.

Personally, I get more translation into the target language than I used to, so the tree should now be more useful in achieving your concrete objective. (People's experiences seem to vary about this, unfortunately; this, to me, winds up being the most biting critique of the new system.)


I like things neat. And when the tree doesn't reflect the fact that I know "boy" "girl" and "apple", it's just demoralizing. I don't see what's wrong with wanting a skill golden when you've mastered it. Also, I never had to spend an eternity on the basic skills in the first place because I took a placement test into 20 skills down the tree, so why should I have to now just to have my mastery reflected on the tree again?


But you do know boy, girl, and apple, and you know you know them. You don't need the tree to tell you that.

You don't have to spend an eternity on basic skills now, either. Literally nothing has changed other than the "Strengthen Skills" button no longer having a physical effect on the tree. And even then, "strengthen skills" on the old system itself often required you to run through basic skills ad nauseum if those words were due for review in the SRS system.


:Lucky you :) If I had that, I wouldn't be so vocal about my displeasure and disappointment with the new system. I mean, there would still be things that I don't like, but at least there would be something to still keep me interested.


One good strategy could be to lower the score in the Play Store until the changes requested (not having to repeat eternally what was already learned) be taken into account.


I'm sure this system is useful when you're starting a new language, but for those of us already so far into a language or using Duolingo to refresh a previously learned language..

This is not my first time learning French, I'm here for vocabulary and grammar beyond a beginner's level. Unfortunately, I'm also the type that prefers to finish everything. That I have to sit through 20+ minutes of repetitive "the girl" and "the boy" to get to level five Basics is tedious and annoying, but I still feel compelled to do it. And that's not even touching the ones that got set to a 1 instead of a 3. Ten minutes of Colors 1 would be insulting enough, an hour to get it to a five might be too much.

Not being able to COMPLETE what I start could make a difference in if I stick around in the end. And I was having a lot of fun.

Again, it might feel less insulting and tedious if I was starting fresh with a brand new language and not only needed but wanted the repetition.. but part of me wonders how much of the increase in activity seen with crowns was people like me who want to make it to level 5 because that's how you signify you're "done" and not because crowns are necessarily better.

It won't matter in the end, things change and people adjust.. it's just frustrating while there's no testing out.


100% agree, Alison. For newcomers, a new system is neither here nor there. Long-time users should have been grandfathered and given the option of opting out, until they had finished their tree. (I only have 9 skills left)


I have three trees that have been kept gold for a long time, and I still find crowns very painful. .


absolutely agree.... I find myself getting really ANGRY writing je suis une fille et tu es un garcon fifteen times.... how is this learning?


I agree! I have spent the past 40 minutes writing "je suis calme" , "il est calme" "tu es calme" over and over. Well, guess what! JE NE SUIS PAS CALME! This constant repetition seems too much, even for a beginning learner, but for those of us with a higher level of proficiency, it is demeaning and insulting. I wouldn't mind it so much if there were a way to test out, rather than having to waste so much time on repetition.


=))))))) Interesting choice of sentence for Duo at the moment where most people are anything but calm. Maybe they did it on purpose?


totally agree, I'm relative newcomer to DL, but after 3 months I know how to say 'I'm a boy', don't need to repeat it hundred times again.


I see no reason to hunt crowns above level three


I am very much in the first-time learning stage for Dutch. Depending on where I happen to have been placed, sometimes I wind up at crown level 4 just by virtue of working to retain the material well, but definitely not always. I'm pretty opposed to being bored and happily move on to the next skill :)


I wanted to make it to level 5 not necessarily to feel that I'm "done", but to see whether there was, indeed, an improvement hiding in those many, many, many lessons. I was extremely disappointed, but not at all surprised, that the touted "richer content" simply does not exist.

People might adjust, but they also might leave, because the fun is gone and now it feels like a completely unnecessary chore. If the system allowed for testing out, or choosing your own crown level and sending you back to a lower level only if you made too many mistakes (i.e. you weren't ready for that level), I'm betting people wouldn't be so upset and disappointed.


Binging on skills isn't helpful, for the same reason that cramming for an exam isn't helpful. Sure you'll remember it tomorrow, but nothing's been stored in your long-term memory. That will all be forgotten inside a couple weeks.

As such, level 5 crowns aren't supposed to be an award for grinding the same questions for several hours on a single day. It's supposed to be a milestone that represents the culmination of months, or even years of work. I think reorienting your goals and thought process in that direction really makes this easier to swallow. Rather than putting 200XP into a single skill over the course of 3 hours on a single day, devote 20XP each day to working on old skills. You'll still get to the same point after ten days, with less stress and less burnout.


I agree with you -- for the advanced skills. I completed the German skill tree years ago, but still checked it daily and did at least one drill a day even if it was still all gold. I was still learning words, and occasionally discovering that I had not understood some intricacy of the use of the infinitive, or similar things. I would absolutely appreciate the crown system on that front.

BUT. Now I am told that I haven't mastered such skills as how to say "the apple" and "good-bye". I do not like that. Yes, I know that crowns are "optional", but can you not see how suddenly not having gilded icons for those things is annoying? And the sense for what I do need to review is now completely down to what I think I might need to cover, not what Duo's algorithm has determined I haven't brushed up on lately. Can you not see how that is not good?

I see a lot of potential here, but at the moment, the negatives of its implementation severely outweigh the positives.


The whole-tree practice option that it looks like you relied on is still there. And now you can go through the levels in a skill that you haven't mastered and get the additional benefit of the harder exercise mix.


And at the moment the new system says I haven't mastered how to say "hello" and "thank you", and won't until I put in hours of my time doing things that will not in any way help my language skills. Neither option is satisfying. And I ask again, can't you see that??


"This would actually be a more sensible quiz-out option than has ever existed before, for, as you state, advanced learners do not need to review the most basic terms. Yet previously they did so if they wanted to keep their trees gold."

I got, I think, only two or three "de-gildings" of skills earlier than the first opt-out point in the last four years. That was actually kind of amusing when it happened.

But yes, I think having a quiz-out feature for the elementary stuff is desperately needed here.


It simply isn't the case that golden skills were ever some sort of enduring trophy of accomplishment. I assure you I am just as competent in the the material at the top of the Russian tree as you are for the German one. And yet it was thoroughly degilded at the time of the changeover. That is simply how the system worked.

I have agreed with you elsewhere that a crown-system-integrated quiz-out option would be an improvement. I hope one will come soon and that it will allow anyone with the requisite knowledge to advance immediately to level 5. This would actually be a more sensible quiz-out option than has ever existed before, for, as you state, advanced learners do not need to review the most basic terms. Yet previously they did so if they wanted to keep their trees gold.


How about giving us the option of testing out a skill, something like the hearts system? You lose 3 hearts means you need to go back to level 1/2/3/etc. You pass the test, you have the option to skip level 1/2/3/etc. and start where you want to start, be it level 4 or 5, without all the fuss about man/girl/apple. I've no need to culminate on basic sentences, would gladly skip them and tackle something that needs effort. Again, the testing function would solve the problem.

BTW, the one skill Duo gives me full colours is the one I have done only once, about a year ago and definitely should practice it again. On the other hand, Basics (the ones about calm and rich men eating apples) show level 2.

[deactivated user]

    I wish to offer you a new way of learning French. There is lots and lots of material on Youtube. Duolingo's strength lies in getting beginners and Upper beginners ready to transition to the marvellous world of Youtube, so many awesome channels to choose from. Français Authentique, Français avec Pierre, Language City, etc. Just those three will teach you most everything. Languages need to be learned live, face to face, at least by Skype. Languages need to be spoken more than studied. Good luck to you.


    I'm with you! I was feeling really good about polishing my French and working on pushing my fluency past 65% and now... I can't test out of skills I know well already, the summary for a skill doesn't reflect what each lesson is about and I have no idea where I am on the tree now. I was just trying to catch up after the French tree was updated to get all my existing skills complete, and it's gone.

    I don't want to complain just because it's different. I liked the idea of being able to do more intensive work on a particular lesson... but when I took a simple lesson to see what 'crowning up' might do, all I got were the same 5 words over and over in exactly the same context. It doesn't look at variations or increase in complexity, it's just how many times you can fire back the answers after the first lesson.

    I'm really disappointed.


    I agree totally. I had kept my German skill tree all golden for a few years, and now suddenly I have to go through 210 drills like "the boy" and "an apple" just to "crown up" a lesson I had mastered literal years ago.


    I don't like commenting on stuff, but if this means that the developers give this more attention then I'm in. Like a bunch of the people that have commented, I agree with what you said.

    I had this solid routine down of doing one new lesson a day, but multiple times, and the rest of my day was spent selectively reviewing. I was moving down the tree slowly, but consistently. I was dedicated, man. Plus I was actually remembering what I was learning. With the new crown system, specifically not being able to select specific lessons, I don't know if I'll be able to continue using Duolingo. Being forced to move to the next lesson when I'm not even comfortable with the material that I'm on isn't exactly the best strategy.

    This last paragraph is just me explaining my routine in a tad more detail to give some perspective on the predicament the new system brings to me. First, I would tackle the one new lesson. Then, I would go back and do the three lessons leading up to that current one. Next, I would repeat that new lesson I did. Afterwards, I would go and strengthen the previous three topics leading up to the one I was on since that overall review for each topic after completing the lessons is definitely helpful. I would then repeat the same new lesson one more time and finally end my Duolingo practice with the overall strengthen button on the side. 100 XP every day, and I've been trying my best to stick to it. Finally finally (for real this time), after all of that I would do basically the same thing I just described on the Tinycards website.

    I am crossing my fingers as hard as possible, hoping that an update will let us access lessons again.

    Edit: I should add that I'm legitimately not trying to brag by describing my routine. You should do what's best for you. I'm just very upset that my strategy is ruined.


    While I like a lot about the new crown system, I do agree that it's weird that practicing a specific lesson I'm weak with pushes me to harder material even if I'm not ready for it yet. It's a huge detractor.

    There needs to be a way to practice at different crown levels I think (or move myself down a crown level), or practice different lessons within the skill.

    I cancelled out of some of my practices because I wasn't ready to advance to new material since I'd gotten a lot wrong, but that kind of practice isn't satisfying; it's stressful.


    I really, really dislike the fact that I can't see the lessons in each level I'm working on. Not to mention go back over specific ones. I did enjoy picking and choosing my lessons to review. Don't care so much about the fluency levels, but honestly I LIVED in Austria for a while. I get the basics. Why is it imperative I go through nine levels of boy, man, girl, woman?


    Yeah, I've been using Duo for 5 years. I didn't like many changes, but very few felt truly disruptive to my learning. I now can't move forward until I repeat my tree, despite the fact that I take my time to learn every lesson, repeating it twice each time (across two days) and still running random practice sessions to test myself. This new system takes away the ability to test out as well, which prevents me from learning just the new stuff and not having to repeat the most basic material.


    agree, it is very disruptive, Duo no longer useful to me, probably quit it now


    Yeah... I agree with this. Losing the fluency % isn't too big of a deal for me, but not being able to select specific parts of each lesson really messes up my learning process...


    I completely agree with you! Never changes a learning curve in the middle of the effort unless this method is failed. If it is so, I could understand Duolingo's decision. I am not convinced that the previous system had been a failure. Now I have to repeat the Basics1 and all elementary questions again and again, like being a monkey, to reach to level 5 again. But I already know it, Duolingo, why should I do this to myself, it is a punishment!!! Get a Lingot from me


    This change is a COMPLETE DISASTER! I came back to my Duolingo lessons tonight (April 6th in the US) to study and practice French and now have no idea what happened to the language learning system I've been using for the last half year (starting last year prior to three months living in France). Before tonight, I could instantly scan what lessons I needed to review and I even appreciated that Duolingo skill levels and vocabulary scores gradually decay over time, just like language skills in real life. Duolingo needs to find a way to allow their current users to OPT OUT of the new system, at least until the older system of lessons can be completed. The visually complicated new system may have improvements but right now it is completely disorienting and absolutely demoralizing for users who have already spent months (or years) working through the very well designed Duolingo progress tree. Right now, I could NEVER recommend Duolingo to anyone else without warning them they would likely experience the same frustration and devastating language-learning experience!


    Add me to the list of people whose learning system has been completely disrupted by this Crowns update. I loved the new content that was added even though it set me back a bit (I'm obsessive about completing each skill before moving on). I was excited to have new skikks/lessons to study, and I was hopeful the additions would continue. Now, I'm seriously considering switching to a new program.

    The fluency percentage, exaggerated as it was, let me know if was making progress, and working through each skill was really rewarding. It's incredibly frustrating to have all my progress appear to be erased, but it's even worse to have to go through the same repetitive lessons to fully level up each skill. Leveling up is meaningless and tedious if all it takes is repeating the same task 6 times. On the other hand, NOT being able to choose skills to review will actually impede my progress. I hope the next update gives those of who prefer it the option to go back to the old system.


    I have been very disgruntled with the new Crowns. I am doing English to Spanish and French. I had finished the spanish course and got my golden dragon- is that what it is? In the old system, I had been revising from near the beginning ie doing one session perhaps 5 lessons making notes and then repeating them again without the notes. If I went wrong I just repeated until I got it right. I can’t do that now so have decided the following: Most of my Crowns are 2 or 3 with the odd 1. I am going to go through the course (missing out the very basic) and bring all my Crowns up to 3. Then I will start again from the same point to level 4 etc. That way my Spanish should remain fairly level across the various topics. My French used to be fluent so what I am doing is a refresher. It is spanish which is my priority.

    I am no longer going to allow Crowns to disrupt my joy of learning Spanish. Angela


    I just can't agree with you more. Hope Duolingo could go back to the old version. The crown system is so stupid...


    I'm also totally confused by this change. I was halfway through the German tree with all gold, and knew what I was going to work on next. Now every lesson has reset to colours and levels I don't understand, and I don't know where to focus.

    I just tried redoing some lessons to improve the level, but these were aborted because I "don't have enough health", which never happened before - so Duolingo is stopping me from studying even when I want to, which seems bonkers. (I paid for Duolingo Plus by the way, because I like and wanted to support the site.)

    I am on vacation and was starting to get in some quality study time on Thursday to make progress for a trip to Germany next month. Then on Friday this happened and I feel like the rug was pulled from under me.


    I had been seriously considering upgrading to Duo Plus for similar reasons. I liked the site and wanted to support tuition free language education for others. I definitely won't be doing that now.

    Also, the updated app likes to boast about itself while loading a lesson. Very tacky.


    Could you answer the following for me please: ages ago I paid just under £100 to stop losing health in the middle of an exercise. This has worked well until the change to Crowns. Does the health thing mean you have run out of money or are making too many mistakes? I had finished the course and am now revising and was never losing any money so took up French to get my monies worth. Thanks for any advice Angela. I am a plus member and frankly can’t see what the benefit is.


    I found that as a Plus member you can disable the health feature, using the "Health Shield" option on the health screen in the mobile app. Does that help? Until I did that I was finding the new system almost unusable, as a few silly mistakes and you are locked out of further practice for four hours.


    Thank you. So it was never a matter of money? I kept on spending £4.99 to avoid losing the progress in what I was doing.


    The option is only available to Plus members I believe, so yes, you are getting something extra for the money.


    What a shock! I am disgusted and confused and am about ready to quit Duolingo, This silly crown system makes it appear that I need to start all over again in each language, including the languages where I have received the golden tree. Now I can't even tell where I was in the incomplete languages. Crown = crap.


    I don’t understand the crown thing at all. If I have kept my tree all golden, how can the new system tell me, I have lots of crowns to achieve withour having additional content. I did not forget the very simple beginner things because Duo introduced the crowns. So I feel the system focuses on new beginners rather than on persistent language learners. I feel like a “learner non grata”.


    Although I understand why you have changed the system I think you have gone too far. My early skills are heavily downgraded and frankly I have neither the time nor the inclination to spend hours on repetitive typing to hammer in basic skills unnecessarily - the sheer number of input without error tells me I am wasting time.

    Frankly I think your time would have been far better spent improving the quality of your computer generated voices as the further down the tree one goes the less intelligible and more ambiguous it becomes (especially when it has no conversational context.

    I shall finish this course (Dutch - I only ever do one at a time) and move sadly on reflecting that on what was once an excellent tool which is now a repetitive child's toy.



    I think the Dutch course is well laid out, much better than many Duolingo courses. But I had one massive problem with it: I got only the most minuscule amount of translation into Dutch. This is the problem that crown levels address.

    Most certainly, don't waste your time taking easy skills to crown level 5, but this change ups the difficulty, and hence what you can learn, from the dozens and dozens of more difficult skills. Get to whatever crown level you need to to get the handle you want on the material. No need for that to be five.

    FWIW, the computer voices are externally sourced.


    You seem to fail to understand how useful those gilded icons are, to a huge proportion of Duo users!

    And really, can you not see how it is dissatisfying to see those 2s and 3s on skills you know you have mastered? Just saying to yourself, "oh, that doesn't matter, I know that" does not cut it for a lot of people, myself included. The metric that used to work could certainly be improved -- some gilded skills I definitely needed to work more on, and some that "decayed" and popped up as drills were on things I was still quite good at. But the transition to the "crown" system, for those of us who have gotten most of the way down the skill trees, is utter chaos, and extremely disruptive to our motivation.


    A very major mistake by the Duo team was the way that they translated the old tree to the new tree for experienced users. I hope that they are able to listen to their users and to redo this. I have already done 72 different phrases with the word "mulher", many of them many times. I do not need more training on Basics 1.


    I see that there is a tradeoff. From my first days on Duolingo I was utterly flummoxed by the lack of translation into the target language, so I am thankful this critical issue has at long last been directly addressed. I don't mind rejiggering the gamification aspects to accomplish that.

    Would it have been better if there were some kind of quiz-out to immediately obtain level 5 for a skill? Yes. (And they've mentioned a quiz-out system tied to skill levels is something they want to add.)


    It is much worse, not better. Just the day after levelling at 24 in my 3rd language. I had it set so for Italian my framework instructions were in French. That has gone. Most important, for those harder exes near the bottom, I would have another Duo window open to review the listed vocab for that unit. Now one is in the dark. Also, the privilege after first completing the tree to pick and choose practice is reduced to just the topic area. A major, major dumbing down ! My motivating goal now is simply top level 25 in my 3 languages. By the end of this month, I reckon. At least Duo has not scrapped the points scored ! Chi fece questo piano?

    • 1446

    I was on level 23 in French and had been doing duolingo for over a year. Although I agree that my 69% fluency was not totally realistic, my entire tree was gold and I simply topped up whatever I felt I needed to each day doing between two and twelve test a day. I now find that I am on level 0 for such topics as present 3, which was gold for me previously. Why? Shouldn’t I have been on level 1 or 2 or maybe even 3? So many of my topics are now at level 1 or 2 with a few at level 3 and some at level 0. How does this equate with the old system? Frankly I don’t care about crowns. What does a crown mean? Does it tell you how competent you are at a language or just tell you how many exercises you have completed. As someone has previously mentioned, why do we have to “complete” the lower more basic levels when presumably after 12+ months I should surely know this stuff already. I live part of the year in France and really want to upgrade my understanding of the harder stuff. I am pleased to read there should be harder stuff in this tree, but as someone has previously stated I am one of those people who feel they must have everything at a specific level and that I must work through the tree in order. Presumably Duolingo have produced this tree with a view to people starting at the lower basic levels and working through the system to gradually improve their learning/understanding. They don’t seem to have seriously considered those who have been doing Duolingo for some time and reached a level well above the basics.

    I am all for going back to where I was on the old system, but with some additional topics added in to strengthen my learning.

    Duolingo need to think carefully about those people who are not beginners.


    Yes, yes yes! I totally agree with you, with everything you say.


    Every thing here it is about traffic. Every time we argue on their web, they keep the traffic. If we could unite and drastically reduce the use of the application then I think they would listen to our arguments and make the necessary changes, but sadly if this does not happen nothing will change.


    Duo has made adjustments consistent with user feedback previously, but as this change seems to be driven by revenue potential, I fear your conclusion may be correct.


    I aggree with you I also redo the lessons a couple times to memorize them effectivly. which is why I use the PC version. but now its the same as the mobile version :(

    [deactivated user]

      There is a keyboard icon to write out sentences in full


      I am a rather new learner but I loved the older version. It was simple and fun. It was much more easier for me to keep track of what I had to practice whereas in this "NEWER AND UPDATED" version, I feel completely lost. Hope Duolingo brings back our "BELOVED" older version.


      I definitely NOT willing to repeat one more single time "je suis un garçon" while I'm able to say "Je suis un homme et j'ai trente trois ans, j'aime étudier le français mais je ne suis pas bête. Jе ne vais oublier jamais comment on dit "I am a man". MERCI!


      I very much agree. I don't even know what I'm doing anymore


      I agree, I was "chosen" for the beta update, two weeks ago. So I was going through the additional material when suddenly. That all changed about 15 minutes ago. Now I am not sure where I am in the program. Very confusing.


      It feels like it’s all about getting people to spend more time on the site, to get obsessed with getting more crowns,. There is so much more repetition, it is not as good anymore. Why 14 lessons for each crown in each circle? It’s going to take forever to make progress now.


      I am so disappointed with the new system. I only started learning French with Duolingo about 3 months ago, but I enjoyed the old system. It was good to see the decay, and be prompted to repeat material which was causing difficulties. I was only probably 30-40 % through the tree, and now Duolingo forces me to repeat all the previous lessons, which means dozens of hours with 'boy has a cat', and 'girl has a dog'. I was completely new to French, but sorry, after three months of learning i know that and don't need to repeat complete basics. The decay system was precisely for that - to refresh the knowledge which was gradually lost, and it worked fine in my opinion. Like some others mentioned above, it is really insulting to force us to repeat the basics. I'm pretty sure most of us, although nobody would admit it, has a tiny streak of OCD, and we hate the sense of incompletion, and now I will have to repeat 23 skills I've done. Do I want to do that? I'm not sure. I am seriously thinking of dropping Duolingo and finding some other alternatives. I just sympathise with all of you who completed the whole trees, especially in a number of languages.

      I guess the general idea to deepen the learning makes sense, but why make retrograde step? Could the objective of the expanding the depth of learning not be woven into the existing framework. And especially - WHY DELETE ALL LEARNING HISTORY. (I know the announcement said it wasn't really deleted, bla bla bla, but hey, I had 23 skills complete, and now I have completion for those as 0. Tell it is not deleting history? I think somebody in Duolingo didn't think about it properly.


      I had 23 skills complete, and now I have completion for those as 0

      If you had the skills complete you've been put at some crown level above 0. The 0 you see is how many lesson/practices you've done toward achieving whatever the next crown level is.


      Every lesson means an ad. Every ad means revenue. Blocking our progress with the health system encourages spending real money. Forcing the health system to apply to review, not just new material anymore, expands the potential market for health purchases and paid program upgrades. I respect that Duo needs a viable business model. I think more users liked immersion, where they charged companies for our translations and did not force everyone to opt in, but they were said to have been spending an inordinate amount of time maintaining and growing something that wasn't so central to their mission. I wonder if there's a happy medium where schools that subscribe and may need some of the features of crowns can have a crown system while we others can have back what was working so well for us. Pretty please, DuoLingo?


      Sad to say that I find myself doing basics over and over again to get the skills golden again, having stopped my actual progress. I really think there needs to be a "test out" option.

      Regards: someone who had done 900 xp of Basics 1-2-3 + other things that I already know, not having learned anything.


      EXACTLY! EXACTLY! I am so disappointed with this update. I can no longer manage my own learning, which is one of the things I valued so much about Duolingo compared to other language learning apps. This new approach does not allow for different learning styles AT ALL. Having learned multiple languages, there is a great benefit to being able to review vocabulary and go back through past work. This is such a garbage update that I’m beside myself right now. I’m just hoping that if enough people voice their displeasure, there may be hope of getting some of these functions back at some point. So sad.


      Unfortunately, I don't think Duo's going to care much about people being unhappy. When they removed Immersion, there was a similar uproar and yet Immersion was gone for good. There were people I was following - long-term users with level 25 in several languages and level 300+ in Immersion, so really passionate people who were spending a lot of time on the site - that quit Duo because of that, but Duo didn't care at all.


      people start listening, when it hits their bottom line. If users went on strike for a couple of days, that means, I guess, smaller add target audience, and smaller add revenue.

      DL has corporate social responsibility to all users. At the moment, it seems the change was not properly thought through. We all make mistakes. DL should admit to mistake and fix it.

      • 445

      This new look is a disaster by duolingo. I am completely dishearteded. I don't want to go back to beginnings, learning oui, non, fille, garcon, etc. My tree shows absolutely zero skills at basic level.


      Me too. Yesterday I redid lessons asking me to translate oui, non, etc. which I I am NEVER going to forget, being around the B2 level. If the algorithm can't recognise that, the algorithm is wrong.


      Spaced repetition systems don't seem to have very intelligent ways of dealing with things that are in permanent memory. In Memrise you have to physically ignore a word, otherwise you'll see it every six months forever.

      At B2 I assume you also will never forget "un oiseau" or "une vache," either, but Animals 1 still degilded under the old system.

      I think for advanced students it's always going to be a matter of focusing on what you need to focus on.


      Under the old system, though, you got credit if more advanced exercises also covered more basic skills and words. We never needed to be tested on "oui" and "non" because they would have come up in lots of later exercises. Under the new system that does not seem to be the case.


      I suppose experiences differ based on how rigorous contributors were about keeping the top few skills to only extraordinarily-high-frequency words. Even things any advanced learner are unlikely to forget like "good night" and "I'm sorry" aren't necessarily things that are going to show up much later in the tree. "Yes" and "no" needn't be either. If contributors didn't particularly think about adding them onto the front of sentences just so they could be refreshed, their word strength will keep on decaying despite their obvious easiness.

      To use an example from a different language, the alphabet/writing system skills in Greek and Japanese have a strong tendency to decay because they use sort of random "words" (sometimes just single letters) that they only picked for their letter use but that didn't necessarily appear elsewhere. So despite the fact that even intermediate learners have no need for alphabet refreshers, the SRS system didn't recognize that.


      Je suis d'accord. Though this crown system gives in depth learning about a skill, but it snatched away the good old 'redo' option. I don't bother about the golden skill thing, but what I am missing the most is to redo a lesson within a chapter which I feel I must practice again to memorize the group of words I just learned.


      "The way you rolled out a new feature, by steam-rolling the existing UI is less than satisfactory, and beyond disruptive. I am not at all pleased."

      I totally agree with you!


      Please give us back the old system! I feel like I am back in kindergarten! Already looking for a different language programm...


      Agreed.... I wish I could go back to the old system... there is no way to "test out"... I have had to repeat every lesson from the very start.... very irritating...

      can we not ever FINISH a level and get "gold" - truly sucks... after over 700 day streak, I feel like quitting....


      In whole, I absolutely agree with you. I'll still use the program, but I'm more than displeased.

      However, perhaps it'll make you feel better to know that moving beyond a 66-68% fluency is actually impossible. Even if you finish and maintain the tree for months, it wont move beyond that percentile. I suppose that's a flaw in it's own right, so perhaps the crown-counting system might become more effective in that right - despite its sloppy and demoralizing introduction.


      This new "crown" update is sooo disappointing - and aggravating. I consider myself a pretty heavy user... 800+ day streak, I've gone from functional to conversational in Spanish (regardless of what the fluency % said) and from nothing to basic function in French and Italian. I was able to do this because I could see my progress.

      My Spanish tree went from fully golded to all-un-gold with 2 crowns in each skill. I would normally spend 10-15 a day keeping fresh in Spanish, and working my way up in the other languages.

      I spent 30 minutes just trying to get "Basics" back to gold in Spanish... 30 minutes of the same 5 words (comer, niño, niña, mujer, hombre) over and over and over. How is this helping me learn? It would be one thing if there were a way to test out, but there does not appear to be so. I hate to give up my streak and walk away from years invested in learning in this app, but the more I use this new setup, the more I feel it may be time to look for another app.


      What this new system achieves is: We can almost never finish the content and have to repeat the beginner's exercise forever. Unless it changes back to the old system, I will not touch the app again.


      I too am extremely unhappy with this new system. Did the development team do a beta test? If so what sample of users did they use? I have not seen any feedback from the duolingo team explaining their rationale.
      Can we please hear from You!


      Pinned at the top of the main English-language forum (since about a week ago): https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26739837

      As for beta testing, yes, when the system was announced months ago (in a major discussion linked from the one above), it had already been in testing and had already achieved noteworthy positive results, resulting in the decision to announce it and roll it out to everybody. Then, as mentioned in the above link, all new accounts were switched to the system, and eventually testing with about 10% of existing accounts was done (this probably culminated about two weeks ago, when the first big flurry of crowns posts appeared; there was likely smaller scale testing of the conversion process before this, too; Duolingo tests everything it can). As of the posting above, half of existing users has been converted to the crown system, and apparently things were still going very well:

      You said Crowns did really well in A/B testing. What exactly did it do?

      We saw gains across the board: learners using the app more, sticking around on Duolingo longer, completing more lessons, typing in their learning language more, and doing harder exercises.


      It sounds as though they tested relative beginners !

      [deactivated user]

        Some of us LOVE the crowns


        No disrespect intended, but why? I would like to love them, but I am frustrated.


        Much harder mix of exercises would be the biggest thing I suppose.

        I think a lot of the objection is based on people not experiencing this, whether because they're only testing things out with Basics 1 and just not realizing it or because there is so much A/B testing going on that it's concealing this core benefit of the system for some.


        Of course they did more lessons since they redid Basics1 a number of times but this does not show that the new system and the transformation algoritm are good


        It is my suspicion that Duolingo has enough eye on its own self-interest to make sure increased engagement wasn't some temporary blimp of actually-disgruntled users doing Basics 1 ad nauseum before abandoning the site forever.


        Let us hope so, I am not sure


        I agree. This might be OK for someone new, but not for someone in the middle of working through the system. So, do I start over. Or abandon duolingo?


        I'm sat here asking the same question. I hate to lose my streak, but the thought of spinning my wheels in this mess just to keep my flame is disheartening. I enjoyed my language routine. It's gone now. I feel no sense of accomplishment or satisfaction despite knowing I've done a hell of a lot of work and improved a lot.

        I'm not sure what to do, either.


        I feel exactly the same. I share pretty much all the negative sentiments expressed regarding the new system. Change without improvement. I shall probably persevere for a while as I was close to completing my French tree... but at the moment that will be without enthusiasm. Bitterly disappointed.


        I agree. I am unhappy with Crowns, but have developed a system to use them that I hope will suit me. I have spent ages plus quite a bit of money on duo, and had finished the spanish course, so decided not to throw the baby out with the bath water.


        A week ago I stopped doing French because my tree went from pure gold to multi-colored and I just don't have time to restart from scratch. I was very disappointed. Tonight, all my other languages experienced a similar jolt with the switch to what looks like some kind of a crown system. After a 836-day run, I think I'm done with Duo. I just can't make myself go back and restart four languages from the beginning. It would take hours and hours of work to restore my standing in these languages and after trying a few lessons in French last week, I find it's all repetition of stuff I already know -- I'm not learning anything new. I'm just jumping through hoops to restore my status. Three of these languages I had completed and I use regularly in real life. There appears to be no way to test out anymore either. This is way beyond disappointing.


        If there was value for you in the trees previously, it's still there. In fact, with the increased difficulty of the exercise mix that becomes apparent as you move through the crown levels (for me at least it's really apparent), the learning content of the trees is even more valuable than it was.

        It sounds like you're well along in your study of these languages. Congratulations! So I would assume you're largely perfecting remaining points of difficulty. Focus on those, and don't worry about maxing out the top part of the tree and other skills you already know like the back of your hand. Even keeping those gold had probably long ago worn out its usefulness.


        Well, as an experiment I have just spent an hour turning just the first two modules in the Swedish tree gold, accumulating 660 xp points en route, and I can tell you it was the most boring hour I've ever spent in my life. Restoring all my circles to gold again is going to turn my brain to mush. Your advice to not worry about maxxing out the top of the tree may be the right way to go to avoid that, but we've been trained to go for gold and being a bit of a perfectionist myself it's very hard for me to let go of those gold circles. I really don't know if I can bring myself to go on with this. Why can't we have a way to test out without having to type the same 10 or 15 words in all their various forms hundreds of times to complete a module?


        I agree with Katherine. I hate unfinished business. Over 80 lessons from across 23 skills in French I've completed were reset to zero. Each time I log in I see the jarring incomplete 23 skills. This is beyond annoying. And I haven't even tried to go through those lessons again, and I'm not sure I ever will - it would be just waste of time. Decay system was good enough, as it forced repetition, but not to the point of nausea as completing all re-set lessons/skills would. In a way, I'm lucky, as I only have language 30% done and another barely started. But I symphatise with all who invested a couple of years in many languages.


        Eens met uw frustraties daarom 10 lingot's


        How does the crown level work? What is the highest crown level that can be achieved?


        From what I have experienced so far is after you complete all lessons in the unit for the first time you gain one crown. Redoing the lessons in the unit a certain amount of times gives you another crown until you reach level 5 or 5 crowns which is the max for all units except bonus skills which only have one crown. On the side of the home page you have the "crown level" which is a collection of every crown on the tree and the highest level depends on the number of units/circles the tree has and multiply by five which should be when all skills are gold and when the tree is complete. Hope this helps!


        But do the crowns indicate your level of proficiency in the language, or simply how many times you have practiced "I am a man and I am rich" over and over and over? Moving through the basic and boring levels is not the same as demonstrating knowledge.


        I have more crowns in German, a language where I haven't finished the tree and can't speak or understand the language, and probably DO need to practice Ich bin ein Mann over and over and over, than in Spanish, where I did finish the tree, earned more skill points, and can hold basic conversations and understand most speakers and news/sports events on Telemundo/Univision.

        So I don't think that the crowns are a good indication of proficiency in the language or the amount of practice done on the site - I spent far more time here focused on Spanish than German.


        I don't think comparing crown levels between trees is terribly useful. After all, how many you can get is determined by how many skills there are, and there is quite a difference in the number of skills between the Spanish and German trees.

        They're probably about as informative about actual, real-world competence as XP levels, which is to say not much ;) [but probably more than the so-called fluency percentage]


        The crowns on the side of the page are just for show and the crowns that are on the units change the style of the exercises from word banks to actually typing so I wouldn't say they "measure" your proficiency in the language you are learning. I agree going through the basic levels over and over can be boring which is why leveling up the crowns after you get the first one is more so in case you want to review so you don't have to level them up to level 5 in one go and are there in case you can't remember some vocab and personally I think there is room for improvement for the crown system.


        I totally agree, every time they alter the site it makes it Worse. this is by far their worst change to the site.


        670 XP today so far. about 2.5 hours. 3 units completed. Beaucoup de répétitions :(


        Je suis français et j'apprends l'anglais depuis ue an avec duolingo. Mon fluency score était de 77 %, niveau 25 et 51000 XP. J'étais content de mon apprentissage et je faisais des progrès. Mais le nouveau système des couronnes est complément nul. Pour retrouver un arbre doré, il faut refaire les exercices basiques encore et encore !!!!!!!!! Pour rien !!!!! Ceci n'est qu'une perte de temps inutile et c'est très démotivant, cela va à l'encontre du but recherché par Duolingo qui est de motiver les étudiants. Pour les utilisateurs avancés, il faudrait mettre en place un système pour valider l'expérience déjà acquise et pour éviter de recommencer l'apprentissage au début ! Si vous ne faites pas cela, je vais QUITTER Duolingo !!!!!!!! I WILL LEAVE !!!!!!!


        DuoLingo stated is their post that you will not lose existing skills. This is not true. Some skills that I completed recently are now showing as 0 tasks completed for level 0. In other words, no credit.


        Having read through the sticky rather quickly, I don't really know what the changes are. Looking at my home site, I see the yellow crowns with numbers in them, but I don't know where I should start. I've been a regular user who made progress until my points started getting erased very fast, so I couldn't move up. so, the old system hampered my progress. I am curious about the new set-up, but I guess I will just dive in and review some topics. Maybe I'll figure out what the system, maybe I'll work with it ignoring how it works, and maybe I'll switch to just using a different program like Busuu or Mango.


        I entirely agree.


        Why doesn't Duolingo test major changes like this with users before implementing them? Like many others, the new system is throwing me off.


        I can just agree with all others. Why should I redo Basic 1 time and time again with the same phrases? And why should I not be able to redo lessons in the right order? And if I do a general repetition, with phrases mainly from one area, where does my point for this end up?

        We should have the option to continue to work in the good old way if we want to


        Why don't keep both systems?


        I agree, I have been using duolingo for almost three years and I had a 64% fluency and now the update doesn't help with with my fluency score and I have redo the lessons.

        • 1446

        It has taken me quite a while to complete basic 2, having completed the previous tree some months ago. I had thought that having repeated “je bois une biere” through every single level of basic 2 (plus many other tedious and repetitive sentences) that maybe my basic 1 would be upgraded at the same time. No chance. Previously if you reached the top grade in a specific topic it upgraded the lower level of the same topic. So, having trudged through basic 2 I would now, effectively, still have to trudge through basic 1. Why on God’s earth would anyone make you do that?! How soul destroying can Duolingo get?
        I am way better than basic 2, but I was curious to know if it would update the lower level.

        I just don’t know where to go next.

        I also don’t understand why my husband has a different tree to me. I have two lots of weather and all sorts of other tasks to complete such as Gallicism, which is nowhere to be seen on his tree.

        Please Duolingo, think again. You have clearly demoralised a huge number of people and really need to rethink how people can progress quickly through basic levels of the tree if they are competent to do so. Please put back the ability to “test out”.


        I have to add my agreement to this - Basics 1 Level 4 has 10 levels - how many times to I have to retype "I am a man and you are a woman, I am a boy and you are a girl., etc."? Repetition is a valid learning technique, but after a certain point, it seems to me that there must be many other topics and sentences that could be used to practice something at an equivalent "basic level". Seems like busywork.


        I have been working with this app for over 4 years and have enjoyed the progress I have made in learning a second language. The app never yelled at me for not catching on right away and I always had the option of going back to review and study past lessons. Believe me when I say that there were times that it took a lot of studying and review before I felt comfortable in moving on to the next lesson. I am grateful for the opportunity to use the app and have learned a lot. I was looking forward to continuing to learn and having a long association with Duolingo.

        Unfortunately, after working with the new crown system for a bit I can say that I am thoroughly disgusted with its ability for me to pick and choose the specific areas I want and need to review or practice. Losing that ability to review and proceed at my own pace is very important to me. I am not in this for the short run. I would like to be able to use the language I am trying to learn. To do that I need to get things into long term memory and that requires practice and more practice. That’s why that even though I am have been at this on an almost daily basis for 4 years and am at level 24 I am only about half way through the lessons.

        Having the availability of more nuanced and difficult questions I think is a good feature. However, and this is a major point If I don't really understand questions at the previous level what good is it going to do to go on to more difficult items? All that is going to happen is I will get confused, disillusioned and decide I am not making any real progress.

        I am really, really close to just chucking the last four years of work and trying to find a place that will let me work and review at my own pace. Actually, today I was at a point where I just did not care to even try and continue with the lesson. I did keep at it until I completed it but it was a struggle.

        Please, please reconsider adding some of the lost functionality back in. I am going to try and stick it out for a bit but don’t know how long I can keep going.


        I think that they want to change the way how to study by practice more time and it make me gain more experiences than before. However, it takes for a long time to study just only one skill, so i pretty fed up with this.


        I agree it disrupts thing so much. I was at a point yesterday and have kept the reverse tree gold before progressing onto further units. I have tried completing novice programs to get some normality but this took me an hour and a half to complete 2 units it is going to take me weeks to get back to where i left off. I wish the button to test out worked again I would be happy to complete this to boost up the novice units to get back to where i was yesterday.


        I think the evaluation of the users' previous skillset for the migration has been evaluated on the low side. I know how to translate the man's hat and as i said before to get back to what i was learning yesterday is going to take me weeks. My system is still the same to learn french at an intermediate level I cannot access this today. When we all have completed these lessons the tree will be gold again?


        I had an all gold french tree. It's all gone now.

        One thing I liked about Duolingo was that it didn't feel like I had an impossible mountain of work ahead of me.

        But now it does. Progress feels so painfully slow compared to how it was. And I lose motivation easily when I feel like I have much work in front of me.


        Yes, a thousand times yes. I really enjoyed working through the skill tree; I had completed both German (in English) and English (in German). When new lessons were added, and suddenly I had to redo 3/4 of it to get it all gold again, I actually a bit excited: the practice was good, and the goal was in sight. Now I must do 210 drills for "Basics 1" just to get to the same level of recognition... and the same, or more, for everything else... that does not do good things to my motivation.


        I'm sorry to say but it is the worst update! Can anyone share me other site to learn English except Duolingo?


        I quote from the Crowns FAQ : "I miss being able to see words in each lesson. We can consider bringing it back in some form, but right now we think investing in better ways to see and practice words makes more sense."

        I am not happy with this. After initial progress, choosing where to get my next ten points used to be my choice, looking at the words, as well as the 'gildedness'.

        As far as I can see, Admin might think we look at the master word lists. I do not. Vocab is not a problem. Translating conditional/subjunctive/compound tenses is way different from basic tasks. Or in German, the case inflections. (Someone wanted to simply omit some of the technical grammar in the Ita course. I enjoy it but go much slower.)

        I should mention I am very active with my set of 3 Collins offline dictionaries, with extensive usage notes. I am worried for other learners if they do not use a proper dictionary.

        Also, I often make just one slip of the trivial typo or gender:plural kind. It used to cruel my percentages. Though I do thank Duo for forgiving many typos.

        Let me manage my learning more actively, Duo !


        I totally agree with the opening post (I have not read all the comments) - having this thrust upon me at this stage is totally disruptive and frustrating. I am only now trying to carry on with the course because I will be going to Poland later this year. Nevertheless, I feel constantly frustrated and wanting to give up. I also agree with the first reply - i.e. different shades (or different colours) should surround the circle depending on the level attained. As it is now, the circle greys out as soon as a level is completed and it no longer functions as a useful bookmark. I cannot see at a glance where I got to, what to do next, or what I need more practice on - in that respect the decaying skills thing was very useful.


        I completely agree with everything that other people have said. I was at level 21 in French, having completed the tree and level 25 in Italian. I was just brushing up on my French but had started learning Italian with Duolingo a year ago. I loved seeing how well I progressed and I have been on every day, even when I've been away, so that I don't miss practising. Maybe for beginners this crown system is great but for people already advanced in the learning process, it is a negative step. To have to go back to the very basics is soul destroying and demoralising. Not sure how long I'm going to carry on with this now which is a shame as it was so enjoyable. Now I can see it becoming a chore.


        Like many on here, I'm distraught that after countless hours of dedicated practice, my gold tree of badges is gone and I'm back to square one.

        My plus subscription is paid through the end of the month, but I've already cancelled it in iTunes.


        "Crowns is a great feature, but you should have introduced it as an additional feature, not an overhaul of the entire system." I totally agree with you! I'd prefer to have crowns as an additional feature and get back the 'old' system.


        Recently, I changed my mind. I love the new system or I just got used to it :)


        I feel I may be paradoxically rewarding the new crown business model. Since crowns appeared yesterday I have spent more time on the site...wrong message... Not because I like it but because I am trying to bring the balance of my Italian up to level 3. I feel cheated on my French. They were all 3s but I have over 56500 XP French points {level 25} and only 26000+ Italian points {just shy of level 25}. The upshot is I am repeating lesson after lesson of the same old stuff. When I do strengthening with time practice, I can't notice any crowns advancing. I can't quite make sense of it.


        WHY WHY WHY when I have kept my tree gold for years, and am fairly fluent in French (but still need to keep learning and practicing) do I have to go back and waste time with 1st grade basics, like "I am a man". Surely the Crowns should have been optional, or applied in a way that recognises the progress already made. I LOVED Duolingo, and have recommended it to so many language students, but I am tempted to give up and find something else.


        I couldn't agree more. This was a huge mistake for Duolingo. I do not want to start all over with my French -- I was at 70%. Duolingo needs to recall this rollout and reboot the old system. I won't be using Duolingo any longer unless they go back to the old system.


        I was at 70 percent also but when I went to French 24 in French, which is a tab on my windows now, I can't understand that much. it's getting better tho...and the English version is very very educational about the world. So if I switch back and forth between french version of the news and the english on French 24.com, i can improve my ear and learn a lot. I surely did not feel 70 percent proficient. Not at all. I thought, well, at level 25 I will be. Nope. But I can go anywhere on the tree thankfully. So when I gave up trying to turn it all gold and stumbling in irritation, I went to the grammar sections I have needed to work on and found it flowed rather well until I wore out at 2 am. I am not sure if all the hours of cramming will stick. For me, it takes repititon but in a little over a year, I got two gold trees on the old system and 60 percent in Spanish which I had never taken as well as 70 percent on French which I have taken in HS and College long ago. The blockade was grammar....and I refuse to let the "TREE" color make me shy away yet again from learning the tenses and moods. Perhaps you learn faster. I need quite a bit of reps.


        I agree DL alone will not make you a fluent French speaker but my comments were based on my experience of living in France for 12 months, watching the French news on SBS every morning and understanding most of it and attending French conversation classes twice a week for 6 years.


        I also find this new "simplified" interface highly disruptive and would very much like an option to turn off the word selection boxes. I much prefer typing the words in as it lets me better exercise my knowledge. (this applies to the German course for English speakers)


        Did you find the toggle 'Use keyboard/ wordbank'? It's at the bottom in the middle of my interface.


        Please DL if I use the practice button (the blue bar on the right of my screen) to practice all the lessons there.. will this enable me to by bypass all those absolutely boring, boring lessons you have saddled me with? Will I still be able to hone my skills and thereby obtain crowns with this feature? Or am I really supposed to go back over all those endlessly awful repetitive lessons to obtain the maximum levels?? For me this updated version is pretty much a disaster!


        I think that the best way to retain your knowledge is to continue to use the practice button and to stop hunting points/crowns. But it is of course demotivating not to see any progress


        In my French tree I got reset to level 0 on "Basics 1", despite previously having completed the whole tree. So I am supposed to go back to translating "la table", "le garçon" and even "oui" and "non", instead of doing something useful like practising the subjunctive. It's beyond ridiculous.


        Crown level 0, or 0 out of some number of practices to reach the next crown level? I'd think the only reason you'd be at crown level 0 would be due to the new French tree version.


        Crown level 0.


        Before, if you finished a certain set of lessons, the circle would turn orange and would stay orange as long as you wouldn't forget those certain lessons. But now, I no longer know how to track my progress. This new system sucks.


        In response to the post stating why the rollout went ahead after testing "We saw gains across the board: learners using the app more, sticking around on Duolingo longer, completing more lessons, typing in their learning language more, and doing harder exercises."

        I agree I spent 3 hours trying to complete 3 sections to level 5. The reason because I had completed over 513 days streak the french tree and had made significant progress through the reverse french tree. So this is the reason why we are spending more time on the app, without any feedback we cannot do anything else. Therefore an explanation of increased use? Duolingo forms a part of my language learning regime i have equal amounts of time to use LingQ and Yabla. It is sad as I cannot see me focusing on Duolingo as much as the content in the other providers is a more efficient use of my time at the moment. I have have stopped the reverse tree and am lost in the standard tree in the hope i can get to access some intermediate content which be a welcome addition. Sorry to the developers but the migration of my settings was downgraded and i/we would like some explanation if any remediation will be applied. Fortunately I am only concentrating on one language I cannot start to understand those who have multiple languages that they need to start revising the basics. I know that the change is getting a lot of grief at the moment as the seen in the number of posts not liking the change vs liking the change. If you can please at least tell us you are listening and maybe willing to make a fix. This changes are more pronounced the longer a user has been here.


        I agree I feel bad for the developers who worked on this change and are now seeing a stream of negative feedback (I am a software developer myself). It is not their fault. Whoever planned this change did not think through the impact on existing users, and/or has not communicated about it effectively with the user community.


        I detest your new "crown" system. How infantile. Totally ruined the flow of the program. Doubt I will stick with it now. It is annoying.


        I am/was at 65% , and level 14. I too have been working at French for a year and a couple of months.

        I received the crown yesterday. I could easily see that from the former assessment method I was at a level 2 of 5 in the former lessons. So I realized I could choose to either go on or deepen. No problem; until I read some of the CROWNS complaints of one or two students deepening at the lower levels and THEY CLAIMED there was no added information. This is disappointing, but I can take it or leave it. I can continue on as before without any disruption of my pace. And I will eventually go back and raise up my levels of the most basic lessons.

        I am GLAD you got rid of the decay of the proficiency level. I think that while it gives some kind of abstract goal, it is basically meaningless. And ultimately such a symbol must be attached to meaning if it continues to motivate, this is what the ed research says, anyway. I share this posters regrets by the loss of a proficiency percentage. It was s motivator for me for the first year, but then I saw how pointless it is. The decay rate motivated me to practice, which I did. HOWEVER, I recently took the CEFR test on the Lawless French site, and I tested out at barely into the A1 level. I think this result reflects not enough time spent memorizing necessary grammar basics offline, and too much time worrying about the % of the proficiency. The review cycles were not punishing me enough for wrong answers. I was skating by, IMHO . So I was kind of gaming the system,

        From now, the results of the CEFR have clearly driven home for me the weaknesses in my knowledge and I am going to do more memorizing of some basic grammar rules. I already have a good vocabulary recognition from this experience.

        I appreciate what you have tried to do. I understand you have poured alot of time and effort into this project. I think that the result will benefit us. I think the feedback you are getting, collectively will be to the benefit of the project. I look forward to the small changes that will come from this feedback.


        KomaGawa, I am in the test group for the increased vocabulary En-Fr and it is great so hopefully everyone will get it soon. Also, I agree with what you said about it having been too easy to not deeply learn the grammar, and therefore retain it, or be able to use it in a more complex way. This new Crown system and its repetition and different ways of presenting grammar points is an improvement. I know a lot of users are frustrated wanting to have a "golden tree" therefore redoing basis lessons well beyond their competency level however this is not necessary. On the other hand, these new lessons are structured to drill home basic but very essential grammar rules. New learners will benefit greatly and I expect more seasoned users will benefit further down the tree where the lessons are more complex.


        I will also add that after the "upgrade" to crowns I lost all of my checkpoints and accomplishments. Is there a way to regain those?


        I see in the FAQ that you do not have to complete level 5 to advance down the tree. But having advanced, I regret we now cannot choose which set of exes and in what order to revise. I see this as losing freedom to the algorithms of the system. It is important as a learner to be active and take control and responsibility for your learning. I am saying that big-computing is making us behioural pawns. As you advanced in the tree you used to have the freedom to choose, with hints from the strength scores.


        I agree, not being able to review previous lessons makes learning much harder. In the old system I started going over new lessons at least twice before going on and found this worked well for me. I don't mind repeating early easy lessons but I do mind not being able to go over lessons at my own pace. My crown levels range any where from 1 to 4 now and the later lessons I have trouble even at the 1 and this is where I would have done more review. Now I don't have that option and feel like I am in over my head, this is when I gave up learning a language when I was younger


        After several happy years using Duo I suddenly feel like a "Grammar" schoolboy who has been returned to the reception class at primary school. Attempting to upgrade the "crown" value of the various "lessons", especially at the basic levels, involves regular repetition of very simple phrases and sentences such as "the boy has a dog"! I cannot think of a more efficient way of demotivating your more serious users!!


        Yes, stop hunting crowns


        The new Crown system may be okay for complete beginners, but I'm not sure it's helpful for those of us who have finished the course and are trying to keep our skills current. The switch to the Crown system is de-motivating for me, and apparently many of us.

        On outside testing of my skills: I know I'm functionally illiterate in French, because I have bought a French copy of "2001: A Space Odyssey." And I can't read it despite knowing the story VERY well. I also can't hold a conversation yet with my son's French-speaking house-mate, because a 6-year-old would have a bigger vocabulary than I have.

        I'll keep going with Duolingo for now, at least until I find it's no longer helping me. But I don't guarantee I'll stay for any given length of time.


        The crown levels should increase the level you can obtain because of the increased challenge and more translation into French.


        This crown system is a major disappointment. I recommended Duolingo to a lot of people, that is something I won't be doing anymore. Yesterday I deleted the app from my phone. I won't be practicing with this new system. I am going to find different approaches. But I have to say, it was really good while it lasted. I guess, well, perhaps it is time to move on.

        The crowns is a no go for me.


        Have you tried Memrise?

        [deactivated user]

          sure has been fun redoing everything and not learning anything new for the past two weeks. I don't think I've even gotten around to figure out what this crown thing even is. I'm just redoing lessons I already learned.


          I guess that this is the idea. Lots of activity is registered and the advertisers are happy.


          Totally agree. I am very upset with this new system. Totally messes me up. I just saw it for the first time and don't even know how to approach it.


          AGREE! Bring back the old system, or at least have it available as an option.


          I am at level 20 and was 64% fluency before the forced "upgrade" to Crowns. I have posted several times about how unhappy I am with the new system. The lessons do not improve by increasing in difficulty or challenging us to think about the vocabulary in new ways. It is just 5 times more of the same over and over. However, since I had about a 270 day streak before going to France, and at 127 days since returning, I am hoping that Duolingo will come to their senses, and, if nothing else, give me back my fluency percentage. At least it was something. The number of crowns I have is meaningless. So, until then, I will do one lesson per day, at least for a while, just to maintain my streak. My actual French learning will be done in Babbel, which is delightful. I started over as a beginner, and have already learned much with regard to actual conversation. And the French accents are so very much better and music to my ears. Next year, on my next trip to France, my French will be much improved.


          I'm sorry you are frustrated. I am too. I hit a 365 day streak today, and was sort of hoping the little owl would do a cheer for me or something to put a small bit of fun into my app use. He ignored me. I'm down to a tedious lesson or two per day versus keeping three trees golden, which I looked forward to. I no longer want to do this first thing in the morning and last thing in the evening. I can tell that the newer things that I had learned are slipping away without the prompting to suggest how much and which lessons I should complete. I had found a web browser workaround that helped some, but that's just so much less convenient than the app. Like you, I may keep this up to a limited extent for whatever comfort is in the streak, but it's time to find a better solution. I tried one that teaches one of the languages (Spanish) through pop music, and that was kind of fun. Maybe I'll end up with three solutions for the three languages.


          There...little rabbits jumping up and down. No owls in sight.


          Thank you, Marie282520! Do keep the hungry owl away from the cute bunnies!


          Why thank you for that advice. It's a daily goal. You are golden.


          If you are lucka you will get a crow(n).


          Groan! Haha!


          If you want to know what was meaningless, that would be the fluency percentage.

          There must be some heavy A/B testing going on to explain how people's experiences of the crown levels are so divergent. I'm sure they'll be showing that, wow, if you don't actually increase the difficulty people experience as they go through them, then, yeah, people aren't going to like that, rightly so.


          Three lingots for roughly every 100 days and Congratulations. Yes, it feels like a community except we can't talk to each other much. So this is now an own jumping up and down but my rabbit emogis jumping up and down.


          You're awesome!


          Also, thanks for the Babbel tip! Just started three languages there, and I like it!


          I like it. It gives me some motivation to go back to languages I haven't practiced in a while.


          I get your point, and have found that the changes of course disrupted my own process which I'd refined into a way of challenging myself. However they've clearly put a lot more work and thought into the change than our own ad-hoc methods of learning/motivation, and after having read the justifications I do believe it's an improvement for the benefit of all users. I hope you remain committed to learning and wish you all the best :)


          I've been using Duo for about six years. I want to keep using it for many more years. I have seen things change a lot; sometimes I have not liked the changes, but they were never so severe that I felt the whole thing had suddenly become a colossal waste of time. This change is different. I might still use Duo to learn new languages, but its utility in keeping me fresh in skills I am already pretty good at has utterly vanished. I am not sure that I want to put in the countless tedious hours that it will take to convince Duo that I know how to say "yes" and "thank you". For the first time, I am not sure that I will want to keep using the site.

          This is a problem, Duo. I don't care how well it tested for new language learners, you are in serious danger of losing a lot of more advanced learners for good.


          Crowns are ❤❤❤❤ ! I had 77% fluency score, it is lost now !


          I have + 51 000 XP and i have to do the basic lessons again !


          Duolingo seriously should give us the option of either testing out of skills we already know or going back to the older system; I think the fluency meter was extremely inaccurate, but having a level 3 on Basics 1 when I am looking to practice complex conjugation is just insulting. The amount of times I'd have to type stupid things like "I am a girl" to have a golden tree again is seriously demoralizing. A lot of users are commenting that we should just move on and not focus on making all skills level 5, but the point is that the tree no longer reflects my actual mastery of the language.


          Personally, I really disliked the fluency percentage. It confused me. It also seemed to overestimate my abilities. I believe this less rigid approach will be more beneficial.


          Whole heartedly agree with this, even if it's not my learning style. I want to be able to go into the lessons and practice as I see fit. I don't like clicking on a bunch of English words to fill a sentence. That might be phone friendly but it's an absolutely useless skill otherwise and especially for those of us on a computer who prefer to type and practice writing in French.


          It is horrifying to use click-a-word entry above absolute beginner level. Your mention of phones is interesting to me. I use a 7" tablet instead of my phone ! I always type, with Smart keyboard, and never ever use Duo hover-hints.


          Hey guys!!!, I like to do my own thing, I'm new to discussion but... I had to comment on the crowns. I Think They Are Very Helpful because it forces you to think, not memorize. I've studying Chinese and Portuguese and personally it has help me a lot more.


          I am really tired of typing "je suis une fille et tu es un homme" for the 245 times to go through the Basic 1 in the new French tree. Please, give us the "test out" option, I beg your pardon <3 <3 <3


          I, too, am unhappy with the removal of the fluency percentage, since crowns don't seem to measure progress against a known standard. Also, I am having to go through repetitive practice of words and phrases that I already know, instead of moving on to new material. I don't feel that I've learned anything new or practiced what I need to, since the program has been changed.


          I agree. I am very much aware that I haven't learned a single new thing since this change took place, even though I have been doing as much or more practicing as I was doing before. This makes me rather sad!


          Nice job of summing up the main problem with the new system, KatherineMaas. "I haven't learned a single new thing since this change took place, even though I have been doing as much or more practicing as I was doing before."


          I agree it was relieving to know that you could choose wich part of a lesson you want to do again and you can skip the ones you know, now you can only go in order and cant rerun courses wich was really practical and helpful, and now its gone.... im really shocked that i cant even choose to go for the new design its forced to everyone... its strange


          They beleive that they will be able to report more activity from all people doing mindless repetitions and that way get more ad income


          I want my 76% fluency in english and 69% in french back!


          The only way I can learn new vocabulary, especially verbs and adjectives, is by repeating it over and over again. I suppose one could use their TinyCards app, but it can be troublesome to go to another application. (Personally I preferred it when the flashcards were right in the Duolingo application.)


          I find I'm less crushed about the French than my other languages. I grew up with French, and the only thing Duolingo French has taught me is that what I learned is dirty nasty filthy peasant French that would not be welcome in France itself. I don't feel like a change in the interface is going to affect that lesson in any way. But I actually cared about the other languages. By which I mean I loved some of them and am hurt to have lost them, and hated others and dread having to go back and do more of them.

          [deactivated user]

            Here's an idea: downvote the announcement for crowns. The staff had to pay attention the last time it happened when they were proposing a new avatar ring for Plus users and they were more or less forced to fix that issue.

            "we want to be super transparent about this": Why can't they be transparent about implementing Health and Gems, huh?


            Personally, I'm fine with the new system based on the fact that it would be beneficial in the long run, but what I absolutely hate is the transition from the old system to this new system. I had my entire French skill tree golden up until the last or second-last checkpoint and has checked to maintain it every day, but now with crowns, what once was full-strength became two or three crowns, and I need to get 300+ XP a day just to level up one crown level in the skill tree. I wish the developers had thought more about this update before releasing it to thousands of users.


            Yes, the crown system is maybe good, it is too early to say. But itis obvious that the transfer from the old to the new system was handled in a bad way. But it is not too late for the developers to do a new transfer giving users more credit for the first courses so we do not have to redo the Basics lots of time if we want to keep our tree full.


            AND THE BOTS SECTION IS GONE!!!!! :(

            100% agree, im on the IOS app and today I was about to move to my new review sections (btw I actually rushed the completions of the course since the last change, I now have 100% of the lessons unlocked) but I had a system of reviewing my material as I wanted, I could pick and choose whichever individual lesson in subsection i wanted to review, now it is all gone!

            Bring back the option to have the old GUI and have the crowns as option. on top of that on the APP i lost the optional idioms and flirting that i enabled (though i see that on the website they are available)

            i liked how the system figured out which sections i should review, now that is all gone (though again on the website i see that there are "Words" section that show which words need practice but that is far cry from before) GAH what a fail!!!!!


            I have used Duoling for nearly 3 years to help me to learn Spanish. My fluency level was 55%. Now I find myself having to do the basics again and we have a system of "crowns". No explanation and I have no idea what a crown level of 147 means.

            Whilst I realise that Duolingo is free and has been a great help to me, I wonder why we have had to accept this change without any explanation.

            I will carry on with it for a while but I find it very frustrating being told that my basic language skills are lacking. It will take a long time to catch up to my previous level if I decide to try and complete the tree again.

            Change is not always a step forward.


            I agree with most of what Jared has said. I am not totally devastated but miss the fluency, the ability to refresh on the previous worked material and where oh where have the most useful notes vanished to? I also miss typing the words in myself. It stretched my memory, which at times was taxing, but in a good way. I am sure you all thought this was so amazing no one could possibly find fault. Wrong. Please dont throw the baby out with the bath water, but please do restore the good points.


            To type in words by yourself, click USE KEYBOARD at the bottom of the page. For Tips and Notes, click the button to the right of the start button.


            I agree partially with some of the sentiments expressed in this thread. Like Jared 5..., I started last June and I had evolved my own system of learning. I keep track of every lesson, how many times I've done it, how many times strengthened, or tested out. I would do print screens of each topic and then check off as I completed the lessons for each Topic, after researching each word beforehand, so I could complete the lessons having an idea of what was to be covered. So I have 2 binders with all my DL history, and I created an Index to quickly find each print screen (page). Every day, I would examine my tree to see where DL calculated that I needed work, and proceed to those lessons and pages to see what I had done previously, either re-doing individual lessons, or strengthening. So at the end of the day, I had a clear view of what I had accomplished and an idea of what to do the next day, either stories, podcasts, or more lessons, for variety. Now I'm having trouble getting motivated because even though the crowns increase, things never go gold and you can't pick and choose which lessons to do, like you could previously. I was doing French this morning, on Level 3, and I was repeatedly asked the English for 'Oui', for 'Je suis un homme et tu es une femme', etc. Enough already with the very basic stuff! I wonder if DL had done some tests of this new way with experienced users? I had completed my tree, and then suddenly a few months ago, was presented with about 30-40 new topics which was great. I was still working my way through them, and now a whole new look and feel has changed the site. But of course, I'll give it a try and see how it goes.


            After reading all the negative feedback, I wonder how DL will be able to keep its current advertisers or is hoping to attract additional ones. Good luck!


            I do not care for this new set up. It reduces my interest and inspiration. I will not renew my pro subscription.


            It had the same impact on me, I am no longer interested since I've lost track of my progress. I used to like the golden skills...


            Daansan91, I don't know if we all have the same options. I have a tree, can turn it gold, but before it's gold, I can go anywhere on the tree because I had turned it gold. If I had not , I hate to think I'd be locked at one level until I repeated the same sentence. I had that experience before deciding to go practice areas that interested me and then I did better. I moved way up on the tree and practiced tenses and then also didn't even make so many typos because I wasn't bored. But if you are not stuck at one level, then you can go work on the tenses and moods. Tenses and mood including gerunds and infinitives, seems to cover all the bases. It shows me my weak areas anyway, and then I can go practice them. It's up to me. I still can ask questions. I'm notified of answers which for a while I was not because the redo seemed to uncheck that option. I got it checked again and now I get answers to questions and comments on the tree. Some people are blocked after 5 mistakes!!! that would keep me totally from learning.


            Still getting used to new 'crown' system but I am under no illusion that I was 68% fluent as the old system stated for long enough. The new system has forced me to wonder what learning a language is about. For me it is to understand what people are saying, and making myself understood.

            What are duolingo's aims ? Much biassed to grammatical reading and writing i think. Nice to write well, but a lot can be achieved by using reverso.net combined with a little commonsense. Nice to read well too, but the challenge is different for each author or each book, and after the first few pages where you look up each word for its meaning, the book/author settle down to a micellany of known words with occasional recourse to the "dic".

            By the way, I live in France, have french friends, and love the language but duolingo o is not entirely doing it for me


            I agree. Can we roll back please and re-establish my progress


            Yes as soon as possible. That is the best solution!


            I agree, i f’n hate that i cant repeat a section. I like to repeat so that i understand it before i move on. It sucks


            You can access the system on the web pretty close to the way it was but with crowns added here:

            http://www.duolingo.eu/USER/progress (substitute USER with your own username)

            This tip was provided by @rafaujo as a way to see strength decay, but it also lets you jump to particular lessons for practice in weak skill areas or any skills.

            Using this link, I was shocked to see how much my three gold trees had degraded in just a couple of days of the crown system! Not being shown where my time would be best spent and having the app use so restricted by health even for topics I'd kept gold for many months had a profound impact in a very short time.

            In languages I know better, the web system moves quickly and lets me review more material more quickly. In the one I know only through DuoLingo and having only studied it a few months, I do find the web version pretty challenging.

            More useful tips in the replies to rafaujo here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26850594


            having the app use so restricted by health even for topics I'd kept gold for many months

            What does this mean?


            If you use the mobile app (and I'm pleased and surprised that there are people who can still use the mobile app, because I can open it and do all the practices I want and nothing ever registers), then those infernal hearts show up when you try to advance your crown level.

            Punishing someone for making a mistake while learning something new is terrible pedagogy, and personally losing any hearts at all makes me too nervous to keep going. I used to deal with hearts by sticking to practices when I had to be on mobile, and learning new skills when I had access to a desktop. Now I don't know what I'm going to do. I thought I might get at least one of my skills to five, so that I'd have something I could practice safely, but now I'm hearing that once you get to five you can't practice it anymore. But of course, it's all moot for me because the mobile app has become unusable for me anyway.


            > so that I'd have something I could practice safely, but now I'm hearing that once you get to five you can't practice it anymore

            At least for the skill I got to level 5 in the Dutch tree, this was not the case.

            I hope your app-server connection issues get resolved! Mine are sometimes quite laggy, but only very rarely do they just never go through.


            With all my trees gold, typos, dictation errors (I use dictation to "type" answers in my native language to move more quickly), choosing a French lesson but forgetting and typing the first sentence in Spanish, etc. didn't matter because anything Duo considered review would not take away health. I would rather move quickly on my reviews to get more in per day. Under the new system, all of this matters. I need to be "on alert" for such issues that are not related to my understanding of the languages since Duo will only allow me five imperfections across all languages per 25 hours. I can't relax into it and zoom to keep my skills current. When new skills are rolled out, they have had many missing alternative translations and sometimes other errors. Working the newly released French lessons would take away health without any errors. Thus my app use is necessarily more restricted than it was. However, I have lost interest in the app since the move to crowns and loss of the gold system to suggest what and how much to review to stay fresh, so I am doing too little for the health system to matter.


            How sad. I am sorry. Is it really the case that you can only have 5 mistakes across the board (I do Spanish and French) before you are cut off for the day? Is that when you can 'buy' more time if you want to? I wish that I could actually read the rules somewhere. I have been doing this for 10 months and had to keep on spending to finish lessons. Any help would be much appreciated.


            Is it correct that Duo just changed your program or something? You now have to pay for more time if you make 5 mistakes? Horrible. Babel is free. I didn't try it but consider it. Has Duo entered us into a study wittout informing us?
            I don't quite understand the long time out after 5 mistakes since my typing could keep me from doing even 5 exercises....spelling? I'm going it on a lap top and had the tree gold, so I now can go anywhere on the tree and practice lessons as long as I like no matter how many mistakes or I would have to just stop doing this which would be a great loss to me. I find it relaxing. But visual problems cause me to mis-read and mistranslate. I don't pay for the service or again, I would not do it on DUO.. I'd get a workbook. And maybe not do it. Some people add ad blockers. It freezes up now and then. I think that it freezes up when they are working on the program and I fear what they are doing.


            Hi, Angela872862. In the app, that's right. You lose health for each mistake. You start with five units of health. I thought it used to be new health generated every 20 minutes but I see it is now every five hours. However, I was keeping my trees gold, which means all my language lessons were considered review, and the health system did not apply to reviews. Now everything I have kept gold for months or years is treated as only new material was previously and the health system limits review. Yes, you can buy health to keep using the app. So far, Duo has not implemented the health system on its web-based version, so if that's convenient for you, it's probably a better way to go.


            You mean they are charging you and won't let you make more than 5 mistakes??!!! whew.


            Hi, Marie282520. I've read that if you're paying $10 a month, you can turn off the health system, and if you're using the website instead of the app, Duo is not restricting your reviews or new lessons with the health system. On the app, review is newly restricted with health and new lessons continue to be, but you can buy more health. I see you're completing lessons on a laptop. While I lost use of the skills strength algorithms that would tell me what and how much to review each day on the website as well as in the app, the health restriction does not apply to the web version. If I were going to keep Duo as my primary language software, I would definitely switch to website only, but I find an app solution more convenient.


            This is very interesting. Thank you. I have only just started using the website as an alternative and actually prefer it.


            I completely agree with you


            One thing I've done is I've ran through a few lessons, made a list of the advertises and sent the advertises an email letting them know I am leaving if things are not reset.


            Um, Duolingo doesn't pick it's own advertisers...

            They're served automatically, just like most advertising on the internet.


            The advertiser pick Duolingo. If we want Duolingo to stop screwing with the trees/lessons as they have then maybe the advertisers will make them stop. For based on the endless comments about these crowns they clearing are not listening to the users.


            I also have been using Duolingo for more than one year. Now I completely lost all my progress and instead of learning new things I have to drill basics again and again and I do not understand where to start. I am extremely disappointed. I liked Duolingo so much and now it does not make any sense any more. Dear Duolingo team, please let us use the old system again. Those who like the new system may use it if they wish but I would be really happy to have a chance to work with the old tree again. Please, give us a chance to return to the old tree!!!



            No harm having Crowns as well, but we do need the % score too. YOU HAVE DISRUPTED OUR LEARNING METHODS.


            Now it's just hardwork... the only one goal is to learn the language. Before the crown system we had the learning goal but we had game goals, the % evaluating and it was all fun


            Agreed. I am no longer able to use yesterday's lesson as my warm up, and finish off by strengthening a past concept. I am a teacher, the former system inspired me to introduce a similar process to the old one in my math classroom with great success. Currently, I am not sure if I will finish with this language let alone pursue another. So discourage.


            I had already finished the entire Spanish course and was going through it again once or twice on each section to make sure I was improving. I had reached well over half way again. I have only just moved to crowns and attempted to improve my Spanish by starting from the beginning and doing more in depth work. It is so repetitive that I was making typos which do not seem to be acknowledged as typos with this new method. I have now stopped in despair. I feel that my pleasure and pride with my progress has been destroyed. I wish I drank, I would reach for the gin!


            Well, it's been several days, and hundreds of comments - it would be good to see a response from DL on this issue now.


            The OP highlights two issues: access to individual lessons and departure of the fluency percentages. These were both addressed in the Crowns FAQ added at the top of the main English-language forum before the system even rolled out to most (and about a week before this discussion was posted).

            See sub-topics "I miss my fluency score." and "I can’t pick what lesson I want to do anymore."


            I agree. I shall be leaving Duolingo as I have been using it for 2 years, but it has put me back from level 18 to, apparently, 0 because I have not been on for 3 weeks. Pointless and de-motivating.


            And when I do my Present 1 repetition (20 sessions!!!!!) I get the same phrases as I had when I did my Food 1 repetition. This makes it even worse


            The crown system is making me want to quit. I was really proud of my percentage and like most people here i would go and make sure all my icons were golden before going to the next thing. Please reintroduce the percentage!


            I agree<sub>~</sub>~ it feels like I keep on having to do danish when I should be moving on to French occasionally. I wish they would make it the way it used to be. I just do duolingo these days for the day streak.


            Bye Duolingo. Ads or not, this is just boring.


            Just a random comment: Since there are about 100 topics (or lessons), that means to achieve 5 crowns for each would give you 500 crowns. I was at 61% in Spanish before the conversion to Crowns, and now I have 178 crowns, so from 61%, I have been reduced to about 35%. Quite discouraging. So this calculation (divide your crowns by 5) can give give you an equivalent % instead of "Spanish Fluency". Que tenga un buen dia!


            So the conclusion is: Stop hunting crows, use the Practice button and practice those items that DL thinks you really need to practice


            I think the systems can work well in concert. Let the practice button direct you if that's been your habit. If the session is reasonably smooth, great! If you encounter more hiccups than normally / if you know it's targeted a problem area for you, head to the relevant skill and work on it a little extra. The crown system now gamifies that aspect, too. The SRS is built on overall averages, but all of us are individuals, so the overall average isn't going to be a perfect fit.


            The trouble is there are no incentives when doing 'practice', it should indicate progress but it doesn't any more.


            Yes, for some strange reason they do not want us to use this feature. But I still think that itis much better than the crowns


            What I particulalry dislike is the loss of health "naughty boy/girl" you got it "wrong" you deserve a smack. I frequently disagree with the "correct" translations and sometimes my disagreement is recognised, but often not. I don't mind being wrong but sometimes I wonder whether I am "wrong" because the compilers have a wrong idea of French, or indeed a wrong idea of English-English.

            I don't think the richness of English-English really comes over, especially in the matter gerunds, gerundives, and past tenses, and after 6 months I am more uncertain than ever of "like" vs. "love". I haven't to your credit yet seen "would of". Well done Duolingo.

            There is a very strong element of SODU programming as well. There are very strong differences between the Application and the browser version. In the browser version there is no warning of expected vocabulary (a crib sheet of the words you need to nkow.)

            The new list of "words you have learnt" is feeble and could be very useful. Its very slow to load (I've never been able to wait to the end, and the most recent words which you are deemed to know well appear at the top of the list. Why not show me my worst words first, so I can usefully direct my efforts.

            After a very diligent 6 months or so of being a plus subscriber I am going to cancel the "plus" bit and take it easy until you have sorted yourselves out.

            I've decided instead to get out more, perhaps join some French clubs here in Brittany, and risk picking up colloquial Frnech.

            Sorry about the typos, I have ET which makes my fingers wobbly


            That simply doesnt work. DL takes you right back to basics even when your tree was gold and you are quite fluent

            [deactivated user]

              This new crown system is ❤❤❤❤❤❤ on every possible level..and that‘s why I am not doing any more lessons on Duolingo until they change it..it is a waste of time..it‘s way better just to go on Youtube and find some quality channel..luckily, there are plenty of them

              [deactivated user]

                The whole crown system is just ❤❤❤❤❤❤,and a waste of time..it’s way better just to go on Youtube and find some quality learning channel, luckily there are plenty of them for the languages I am interested in...until then, I will not do any more lessons on Duolingo until they change the system

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