https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris52496

Crown levels NOT an improvement

I clicked on upgrading to "crown" levels because I like the idea of being challenged more and learning more. I did not expect all of my progress in all my languages to be wiped out. I've been using Duolingo for over a year every day trying to get all my circles gold in different languages and now at the click of a button that's all gone and I'm having to start from scratch. This is NOT - absolutely NOT!!! - an improvement. There is also no "level out" option (or whatever it used to be called) so the only way to get a circle gold is to go through ALL of the exercise again. Please, please, please Duolingo do something to change this and restore my progress. This is EXTREMELY demotivating.

April 7, 2018

134 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/linguist1

I didn't even click on anything; Crown just appeared and I hate it. The skills are so basic they are totally useless. I had finished the tree ages ago and had gotten to level 67 or 69 and will probably stop Duolingo rather than waste time on this. It is a shame because it was so enjoyable.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ak423

There are too many good alternatives for DL to still be feasible. If they don't negate this update, that is. This is even worse than getting rid of immersion, which was completely insane.

Knowing how unreliable and stubborn the DL staff are, it looks like LingQ will be seeing some more money soon. They're better than the 'fixed' version of this website anyway

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobCrownsSuck

I've not looked into LingQ, except in a YouTube vid with Steve Kaufman who appears to learn in a dymetrically opposed way to me so I had little interest in trying his system. For Language Exchange I'm using HelloTalk & Italki. Everyone seems to know of DuoLingo, but they've really blown this mindshare advantage with this update, as all the serious learners who are motivated and end up influencing others will find new toys.

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gestaltwandler

I didn't click on anything either and suddenly find all my gold is just a memory........but I see no point in whining on about like a child. I will just relearn all the basics LIKE A CHILD. I am curious to find you how you reached level 67 or 69. I was led to believe level 25 was the highest you can reach.......Your Profile shows German to be you highest level at 23.???????

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JH959

I think he means percentage _ i.e. 67% proficient.

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TetenyiIst

I absolutely, agree. I find the crown system less motivating.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/katherinekemp3

So do I. This is really not motivating me to continue learning. Although I felt that i could learn more! I found that with level 20 in Italian, I understood most people, provided they spoke slowly, but when I had to speak!!! Well that was another story. However, what does this crown mean? How many crows do I need to have to be proficient? Who understands the new system?

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4oYBIxtO

Yes, substituting the owl with crows is not an improvement

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/welsh-girl

I confess to feeling the same. At 67% fluent in German and at level 25, I worked daily to maintain my standard. When I logged in today and discovered the "crowns" I was initially quite excited, because I assumed that this would be an "upgrade", a bigger test of my already substantial skill. What a disappointment! Most of my crowns are marked at level 3, some even as low as 2. I have had to complete 200+ xp today in order to get from level 3, to a level 4, repeating, over and over, the same basic sentences. Language learning should be fun whilst remaining a challenge. The Crowns have removed the fun and made it dull, boring and repetitive. Im not sure how, or even if, I will continue now.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyOra

I like the idea generally, but the fact that you can't test out of things you already know is incredibly boring for any advanced learner. Please, return the "test out" option (it can be just for the current crown level, so you ahve to test out for the next one), and it will be incredibly better.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChristineB623986

Yes once again please let the more advanced learners test out of the easier skills. The frustration is killing our motivation!!!

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Comfy_Cat

Now you can test out, but you have to "pay" for it with lingots...

July 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChristineB623986

The same happened to me and I am not impressed. I worked really hard to conquer the French course only to have all my hard work obliterated over night. What on earth is the point in improving something which seemed to be perfectly fine to begin with. Yes very demotivating. Reinstating a level up would go some way to helping this situation. Please do something before we all go out of our minds!!!!!

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KungKras

The new system feel so icredibly tedious. Like just completing the first skill takes mountains of work.

The old system was better at hiding all that work, because keeping something gold felt like you had achieved something.

Not everything feels like an endless hamster wheel.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jayda909346

Yes I am upset to. I basically lost my progress. I was motivated to complete all my skills and now I can't.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobCrownsSuck

That's such a shame, I at least had finished the tree and was ready for other challenges like Clozemaster. I had for many months left vocab learning to Memrise & Clozemaster, with DL being used for exercise drills. You might enjoy Busuu, which features marking by native speakers and you mark in your native language. It has lessons which end with public exercises, so you get a sense of achievement and progress. They email you, for reviews and I found a topic on Spanish possessive pronoun use that I had not seen covered anywhere else.

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

Thanks for bringing up Clozemaster. I never heard of it, and I find they have Svenska to English so that's quite great! Tack!

May 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DukeAmir-Offen

Definitely not an improvement. The old way really suited my way of learning and kept me motivated to practice every day (which was always the biggest hurdle). Now I am demotivated and am not learning as effectively. I see elsewhere on the forum that some people like the new system - that's fine, why not make it an option whether people have crowns or bars? If this doesn't change back I can't see myself sticking with Duolingo, which is a real shame, as I was really starting to make progress. It wasn't broken, what were you trying to fix Duo?

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanSommers

Um... I like the crowns. I've been struggling with the higher lessons for many months and suddenly I discovered I have a lot of room for improvement at the lower levels. I think I'll make a few "5's"...

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mephili

I like the crowns. Doing the new lessons is helping me to remember Chinese characters better.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobCrownsSuck

What you're missing is that you could redo the lessons before, it's giving me nothing new at all, I did not do before; but I lose a lot. Furthermore as someone with high fluency and learning fast, they have turned DL into an attritional slog of endless repetition, with lessons dumbed down and made more boring without challenge. I finished the Spanish tree in just under 90 days, whilst also getting half way through the larger German tree (a language I was revising). In totally aiming this change at increasing app time of learners, put off by difficulty and who vocally objected to decay of skills and spaced repetition; they have destroyed the time efficiency of DuoLingo for me. I paid good money to support DL, 1/3 way into the year they have totally blown it. There's no reason, they can't dynamically adjust and challenge, more fluent learners; but no it's one size all slog and mega-boredom.

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stardust103158

I tend to resist change, but now that I have crowns I actually like them.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luke224647

The app updated on its own and now i have crowns for my levels and it's the worst thing ever. I've lost all motivation to learn with Duolingo. They didn't even bother explaining how the update works so i had to figure it out alone. PLEASE CHANGE IT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CampRandall

I am not a fan of this news system. Reeks of fixing something that isn't broken. Boooo, Duolingo

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/herbjort

I think that getting gold levels on the old system worked well for motivation. I do not see that the new system will give the users the same level of motivation. It takes too much time to achieve gold. Could one idea rather be that after you get gold in everything, you are promoted to the crown leve (optimal that is)? I can see the point of going deeper than the old system, but so far the new one seems a bit complicated for a beginner.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/killary45

I think that the crowns are a huge improvement. I have been using Duo for years and have been coasting along keeping my trees golden each day, so it was a bit of a surprise to find that this is no longer possible.

The old system let me keep my tree golden without actually improving my language skills. Now I am going to be set new challenges to really make sure that I know how each language works, and am really familiar with the vocabulary.

I will not bother getting to higher levels on the easier units at the top of the tree. That would drive me crazy. Instead I am beginning at the bottom of the tree with the harder units and am finding that going over and over again really helps.

I do not like the idea that there is no decay built in. I know that revision of material already covered is essential, so I will have to use the "practice" button every day as well. If they ever link the practice exercises to the crowns then that will be welcome.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/flurin.arner

YES! This is exactly what bothers me. Right now it doesn't feel like "practicing" brings much to completion of the language.

I agree that having the practice button linked to the crowns, would restate the feeling of achievement.

Of course decay of lessons over time was a great feature, as you could rely on DL to let you know you're getting sloppy on some stuff or you started forgetting it.

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobCrownsSuck

This crowns system, makes me slog through pointless repetition I do not need, just to make some semblance of progress and emulate spaced repetition of what I had learned before. There's no deeper learning, it's just rehashed exercises in both the trees, I have completed or near completion in. Before I would repeat skills to drill and a re-run through of most of my trees, to regain the fluency scores I had, when I finished the Spanish tree (65% & 67%)

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris52496

Wow - I'm extremely pleased to say that so many people have commented here and that so many others share my frustration!

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trisha1961

My app finally updated a few days ago to this system. I (personally) really hate it. I seem to be repeating really really easy exercises such as the boy eats the apples etc.. rather than the more complex (for me) sentence construction and verbs I have been using. I can't make head or tail of it - why would I want to go back to very basic sentences when I am really keen to advance my spanish. For me, it's not about the lingots or percentage of Spanish known....but about challenging my Spanish levels every day in a different way. This is really frustrating to wake up and do another round of Manzanas, bread, boy and girl.....am I missing something?

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ClaudeKrie

Completely agree, this is really annoying. If there is no improvement, I will quit! Definitively! Claude

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gjbro7
  • 1601

Agree with many of the comments here - the conversion of all lessons to new 'Level 3' max seems a bit silly for the lower/early ones.

For me - as a plodder in my learning - main loss is the decay function.

By keeping the whole tree gold you were forced to go back and redo/revise lessons.

New system does not highlight lessons that have not been done for a while - if they could put back the 'dial' around the lesson to keep track of what not done recently that would be great.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianHughe724504

I totally agree that the change to the Crown system is both demoralising and demotivating. I get to go to Germany just once a year, and felt that under the old system I was improving my vocabulary and getting into a position where I could join in conversations more. Now, trying to establish 'gold' levels requires so much repetition that I switch off, I am not learning new things and am getting bored with the process very quickly. Nearly time to switch off Duolingo!!!!!!!!!

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Karatefan

I haven't been using Duolingo in a while, but the new crown system doesn't do it for me. I guess I will stick to other sites and learning material, guys. So long, and thanks for all the fish... However, I like Duolingo stories for French and Spanish and I hope they will have these stories for Turkish one day.

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hannibal-Barkas

I don't think it's a bad idea -at least not yet ;-) . As someone who is learning different languages (like you do) it was never possible to keep all circles in all languages golden. Now you could target your efforts on lifting all skills on the same crown level. In the end it seems to be better if you can learn new things than just doing the same things over and over again just for beauty. Remember, they did not scrap your achievements, they offered you room for improvement. They try to drag you out of your comfort zone so at least give it a try. And if you don't want to repeat basics 1 over and over again it won't be a coloured spot on your golden vest - never again.

April 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobCrownsSuck

But you obviously have not tried it out.. when you do, you'll find getting a level 5 gold skill involves exactly that repetition over and over. What they've taken away is the ability to redo level lessons or know what skills are weakening and see what words are introduced in the lesson

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trilby16

Exactly. Those three things.

May 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Stardust103158

You are exactly right. To keep something golden and learn more than one language is far too time-consuming. I like the crown system. After all, I already have the basics down solid. I don't need to bother with them again.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobCrownsSuck

Completing crowns is far too time consuming for no benefit because of constant repetition of things already learnt.

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Harris345262

I DID NOT SWITCH to crowns. I was quite satisfied with the progress I had made in the non-crown method. With crowns the progress is slooooooooooooooowed down and I have to do the same things repeatedly even though I have done them correctly several times. I am not impressed. Why the change and why no notice to the students, at least not to me?

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Brian21740

duo you might want to rethink your new "changes" for the better and go back to the old way... or you just might lose Old AND New learners with your "changes"

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/giuseppecc81

I totally agree with that!! ...I had used plenty of gems too in order to keep my level as much as possible --since it was what duolingo system promised for masterclass level. And now?!?!?!? ... I am supposed to start all my learning path again. Please fix that !

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamieMcGee2

Does anyone know if we can choose between the Crown system and Duo Classic?

I felt more motivated with the former layout and methods. People learn differently... maybe having both versions would allow different types of learners their preferred format.

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Roy_Murray

I agree with Chris52496. This is a step backwards for Duolingo. I have been working with Duolingo for over 2 years and it has helped me greatly to improve my German, but this latest update is poor and demotivating. In addition there is now much more repetition which, after a while, becomes boring. Please delete all the repetition and return the the previous version. Thanks - Roy

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkBaker7

I complete agree! I had completed all skills in three languages: French, Ukrainian, and Turkish, and now that is all gone, and I am back to doing the most basic skills over and over again for no apparent reason. How is this improving on my advanced skills? What was duolingo thinking? Was the idea to discourage us? Well, if so, it certainly has. My children are so discouraged, they do not want to do it any more. Please change it back.

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gmmail2000

Yes, this is not an improvement. Apart from my gold that is gone I have been testing the new look with the crowns since the weekend. I did not find new and more difficult translations but have to struggle to endless repetitions to get to the level I was before. Worst is that I am even on level 3 on the starter's level and have to repat "Hello", "Goodbye" etc again. I always tried to keep my tree on a golden level. Why could the crown sytem not take thoses golden circles as a Level 5, keep them golden, and put the crows up from this level? I really would like to get an answers. This kind of learning is really not motivating - I am not sure I will go on another 1275 days (so far I got today).

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lizfindl

I agree that this is not an improvement. I have been using Duolingo for over 4 years and was on level 14 for French. Now when I open a new lessons it back down to basic level 1. I'm extremely bored and I am not being allowed to progress.

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Azora4
  • 1138

I totally agree! These new crown lessons are too boring, too many of the same and no progress

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Azora4
  • 1138

I just did 35 lessons of food, and the level was all the same! Very boring! Every lessons are just for beginners!

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Azora4
  • 1138

I just did 35 lessons of food in Italian, all were the same simple level. The new system is just for beginners, and very boring!

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lore271920

Yes absolutely I agree. This new version is a complete waste of time. Please please Duolingo do something to change this or I will stop using. There must be challenging incentives for advanced users to continue to be motivated to use Duolingo.

April 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rita820103

I agree wholeheartedly! I am bummed out about losing my hard-earned levels in Spanish and Chinese -- and what happened to that nifty "fluency" estimate? Also, I don't remember opting into this new system. Feels like it just happened one day. Can I get out of it? If so, someone please tell me how... Maybe this is the nudge I needed to "get a life," and stop being so diligent about Duolingo? Hate to sound like an ingrate, but I have certainly paid my dues by helping out with the new Chinese language app. I've sent and received thanks for at least 250 corrections of errors in the English translations. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, Duolingo. Please return to the levels and fluency estimates.

April 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rilianxi

they claimed you'd go more in-depth with each skill, but it's actually just the same ~10 sentences over and over again.

May 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duolearn4321

If you're on Android and want to revert to the old interface, I've written a guide on how to do it: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26854073

April 7, 2018

[deactivated user]

    Here's an idea: downvote the announcement for crowns. The staff had to pay attention the last time it happened when they were proposing a new avatar ring for Plus users and they were more or less forced to fix that issue.

    "we want to be super transparent about this": Why can't they be transparent about implementing Health and Gems, huh?

    April 8, 2018

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulKlenk

    Great idea . . . and the majority here do NOT want the Crown system which was implemented without our knowledge or consent. So, Bill, how do launch a "downvote?"

    April 8, 2018

    [deactivated user]

      Press the down arrow button next to someone's comment. Apparently DL disabled this ability for some users to curb trolling, so I don't know if it would work for you.

      April 8, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gestaltwandler

      OOH!!!!! it works!!

      April 8, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gestaltwandler

      The majority system????!!!!!!ERRR like three people in a lifeboat deciding to kill and eat the fourth one? Where did you find the Authority to tell Duolingo how to operate? Just embrace change or crawl away and join the other extinct species.

      April 8, 2018

      [deactivated user]

        Well how did the Civil Rights movement start? People decided to voice their opinions to the authorities who should be listening.

        April 8, 2018

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LyanCrash

        There's a big difference between the Civil Rights Movement and a Language learning program, don't you think?

        April 9, 2018

        [deactivated user]

          I know. Just trying to explain to Phillip that people should ask for what they want and deserve, provided that the request is reasonable.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gestaltwandler

          Thanx TrashGoblin I've given you 3 lingots for providing the voice of reason. Also cos I like your name and your picture.

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ClaudeKrie

          It‘s a big mess! An absolute no-go! I lost my efforts of more than one year and in addition my friends and followers! Awful!

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rebecca377091

          Agree! And please bring back the preview of the words and the discussions with fake people!!!!!

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/samsamc1

          I personally don't care about the aesthetics of having all gold skills, but I still hate the new crown system for changing this feature. Previously, I would re-do any skills which had decayed from their golden status before learning new content. This allowed me to target my time towards words I had not practiced in a while. Now, I cannot see which lessons I have not practiced recently because they no longer "decay". I like the Crown idea in principle (making the lessons more difficult the more you do them is a great idea) but I think it has been implemented really badly.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agonisti

          In the old system/UI, it was superbly easy to tell which units you might benefit from repeating. I would progress through a language, regild everything, start a new language, maintain the old one, finish the new language, regild, rinse and repeat.

          I'm a bit of a completionist, and the old UI made it really easy to track progress and maintain tabs on older languages (Got ungilded units? Time for practise!).

          Right now I feel like there's little point in bothering with many, if not most of the units. There is no equivalent of being "gilded", completing a unit fully essentially only locks it out for you and I have done many of earlier/easier units so many times I can't be bothered to level them up to five.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4oYBIxtO

          Totally agree. The crow(n)s have no meaning except that a section might get locked when you reach level five. So the only way to use Duolingo is to use the Practice button and forget about the crows.

          April 13, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

          The website domain has changed to duome.eu. These days I'm using https://duome.eu/username/progress myself, and I think I've struck a good balance.

          For French, I'm trying to keep everything at at least 75% strength as a baseline. For anything at 50% or lower, I do a session. Sessions accessed by clicking on the skill at duome.eu are lessons that contribute to your crown-level progress, so this way I get the best of both worlds.

          Then, as long as everything's at 75% or greater, I do lessons in the skills with the lowest crown levels, accessing them directly from Duolingo, which also has the effect of increasing their strength.

          I do at least an eighth of a level per skill at a time. Currently I'm working through all my level-2 skills, an eighth or so at a time, before going back through them again, so eight times through all of these skills will bump them up to level 3. (At lower levels it could be less, as there are fewer lessons, but this is what's currently working for French from crown level 2 to 3.)

          For now I find this method to be a good balance between spaced repetition and making progress through the crown levels.

          May 16, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Masquedesronces

          I think it's a good enough system for beginners (probably even an improvement) but the implementation for people who are already a good way into the tree is completely puzzling to me.

          When I switched to crowns, Duolingo suddenly estimated I was a level 3 on the first skill, meaning that I needed 24 (15+9) exercices to make sure I really knew how to say "I'm a boy" and "the bread". Granted, I could simply leave the lesson as it is and concentrate on more advanced stuff, but I didn't have to make those decisions in the old system: it was well-designed enough that I found myself mostly practising words I hadn't seen a million times already, with the immediate visual feedback of keeping my tree gold. Now, I can either concentrate on the anaemic word strength system, which no longer interacts in any way with the rest of the site, or just kind of guess which lessons I should prioritise. That's really not what I want out of an online course.

          Of course my ultimate goal is to learn a language rather than get intangible rewards from a Skinner box, but knowing that properly completing the course under the new system would take a frankly unreasonable amount of completely rote and useless work on skills I've already mastered has killed pretty much all of my motivation re: Duolingo specifically.

          At this point I think I'll get more mileage out of a proper series of language books and a flashcard app.

          Edit: I would have loved to post this rant in the proper thread, but its length makes so sluggish it's unusable, in my browser at least!

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ak423

          If DL are claiming that something as fundamental as their most basic lessons requires that many repetitions, then the burden of proof on them lies entirely on their shoulders and they should feel morally obligated to justify themselves. Nobody has claimed such an absurd figure since Hermann Ebbinghaus and been taken seriously, nobody.

          Which is to say, there is way more supporting the idea that they are wasting everybody's time than the idea that their crowns have meaning / value.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ak423

          When you switched, or when DL decided to switch you? I don't remember clicking 'OK' on anything.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeanMacAonghusa

          I got an email with a button to say okay, I purposely deleted the email without pushing that button and still was updated...

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Masquedesronces

          I was using the Android app for the first time in a while (I usually use the browser version) and was given a prompt to "opt" into the new system. It couldn't be dismissed and didn't have a "no" button.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BobThomas12

          I felt the same when my app first converted. I hope to feel better as I become more used to the new Crown System. Giving you a Lingot.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TetenyiIst

          Why is the crown system fundamentally/conceptually faulty?

          My answer is: as it is based on the concept "übungen-übungen-übungen" (repetitive exercise solving).

          Meanwhile: this is a Prussian model of learning. Which I hate, and I do not believe that solving 30 similar tests allows you mastering or at least surviving in a real-life situation. I personally, feel this model absolutely counter-productive.

          There is always a stage of learning of a new language when one has to leave the übungen model. However, the change over to the new crown system makes us practising useless little tests for another 10 years.

          Do you feel like serving a 10 years sentence by Duolingo? ;)

          I hope not. And you are absolutely right!

          As there are several others ways of improving your language skills, knowledge and ability to communicate.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/loughjohn

          please bring back level strength bars so we can see our progress on each level and choose where to progress while still working in parallel with the new automatic system :-) also, please bring back the decay, PLEASE :-)

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ElliottofRivia

          The need (or perceived need) to gild/golden/engolden/whatever every skill does make doing the basic stuff over and over just to get it gold a big drag. Overall, I'm really pleased with the new system, and think it does do a lot of good, but it's a waste of my time to go back and do Basics 1 and 2, etc. over and over just to see them gold like they were before. I think a good compromise would be to test up to level 5. If they add new content and harder sentences, they all HAVE to not be golden because there's new stuff, but it's a pain to have to go through the drudgery for more advanced learners in beginner skills, in particular.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobCrownsSuck

          They didn't introduce new content, it's just endless rehash of the same exercises, I've done already

          April 12, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Azora4
          • 1138

          I strongly agree! The exercises are so boring!

          April 12, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulKlenk

          It's not motivating because on the ios app users are punished for using Trial and Error learning. The staff here needs to review theories of learning. Trial and Error is accepted in virtually ALL circles.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobCrownsSuck

          Trial & error, was exactly how I had approached DuoLingo; I had other lessons but could play with a new topic, then have some theory and come back to it, by re-doing the skill; which would then be MUCH MUCH easier.

          April 12, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyGaribotto

          I am agree with this comment. Duolingo needs to change this kind of teach, is demotivating.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/katherinekemp3

          I found that I did not like the new system for Italian, where I had a 20 level and had worked a lot to keep golden. I also do not like the new system for German, which I speak very well but had no time on lessons. However, I just love it for French, where my skill is the weakest!!

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/guitarluehe

          Thanks for your input. Maybe you are right. Repetition is the key to ge things into long-term memory. If you start from the very beginning it may be a help for the learner to have the crowns system which shows progress instead of decaying gold of the tree before.

          But if do feel that a brush up language was not really at home with the old system. If you can test free a tree in one go during one afternoon, you lost your gold rapidly. And this has become even worse with the new system. The crown system lost a vital chance. It added a different reward system instead of an increase of content and skills when going into the crowns levels. I would prefer the tree being the vertical progress, the crowns being the in-depths progress within an special topic. And repetion should be automatically put in by the system. A test lets say every two months or 5000 XP could trigger the amount of repetition the systems creates.

          Repetion is vital, but it should have nothing to do with vertical and horizontal progress. Indeed I have the same phenomena as you do. My French shows level 25 and it is my weakest language.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnGieros

          I agree it is too easy to loose all of your health because of a not perfect answer and the amount of practice from basics is off putting, Not happy. In the language I am learning I am sure the instructor mispronounces some words and that Error is repeated everywhere it occurs and there is no real way to get it corrected.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/whitelaughter

          An additional annoyance - it used to be possible to see how much of the tree remained to be completed, as each circle said how many lessons it had. I'm close to the end of German, and I found it quite motivating to know how close I was to the end; losing that info costs me that additional spur to keep going.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/travis.font

          AGREE!

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Warric0

          Yep I was very disappointed . I preferred being able to redo each section of the lessons . I didn't even ask to be moved over

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Space-Ninja

          This is absolutely awful. I can no longer tell where the program thinks I'm up to, as colour versus gold was a nice, neat way of checking at a glance, and I seem to have random numbers of crowns on each lesson now. It also claims I have zero lessons completed in every coloured circle. This means I have to spend health when I mess up. Health has always been worthless, as I'm here to learn a language, not play a stupid game. But it's worse than ever now. Also, the bots. The bots were great. Why get rid of them and make the program less language-learning and more hoop-jumping? Thoroughly unimpressed, particularly given the app updated itself without my say-so. I'll probably drop it and go back to the German For Dummies book and YouTube lessons. I can brush up my French the same way. Awful, awful update.

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Meg483121

          Thank you, Duolingo. I've spent many enjoyable hours this past winter learning, re-learning French. The timed practices were fun, though frustrating if there were only two seconds left and one only needed to type in a period! With the new system recently implemented, I have been bored to death. Typing as fast as I can, just to get through a level. I completed Level 5 in two Basics; and am up to Level 4 in one other "crown." Don't think I can go on; it has been so mind-numbingly repetitive recently and, with so little translating from English into French, I feel I'm not progressing. I am so sorry to write this, as I have loved being part of the Duolingo family -- so motivated, kind, grateful, interesting, and amusing.

          April 19, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FirePolyglot

          The crown system is pretty bad. I'm totally against it. Now I can't see which words I'm going to learn in a new skill. :(

          June 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

          Go to https://duome.eu/username/progress and click on the light bulb icon for the lesson you're interested in and you can see at least some of them.

          June 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatherineVonJon

          I absolutely agree. I often disappear from the site to return in a couple of months and I desperatelly miss decaying levels and being able to skip a level. Also I miss the ability to walk through the individual steps of the skill again. The crowns make me want to restart my whole progress. This is just stupid and really demotivating. I am a type of person that needs to see the gold and now I am stuck on the basics and probably will be because of this system. Additionally, I miss the percentage. That tracked my progress really well.

          June 17, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NancyGaribotto

          I am agree with your comments.

          June 17, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

          Install Tampermonkey if you're using Chrome as your browser, and then install Duolingo Skill Strength from here:

          You'll be able to see the strength of your skills individually as percentages, and I believe the "Overall Strength" percentage corresponds to the old fluency gauge.

          And to gild your skills in the old-fashioned way, you can go to https://duome.eu/username/progress. (Substitute your own username into the URL.) You may not be able to retake a unit from scratch, but by clicking on the barbell icon you can practice and strengthen a particular skill without moving up the crown levels. Better still is to click on the name of the skill you want to strengthen, instead of the barbell, and then you get a lesson that both strengthens the skill and moves you toward the next crown level.

          June 17, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4oYBIxtO

          Has anyone seen any instruction or advice on the how to optimize your learning process when working in the Crown system? The very short email you got from Duolingo said nothing at all. Taking each section up to level 5 before you start the next section cannot be optimal, but there is nothing in the Crown incentive system motivating you to continue with following sections before finishing the first one.

          I have started a 3/1 working strategy. I do the sections in the following order: 1-new-2-new-3-new-1-4-new-2-5-new-3-6-new-1-4-7-new-2-5-8-new-3-6-9-new-1-4-7-10-new etc, until I have reached the section which I am just now doing for the first time. And if I have reached level five for a section, I just skip it and go to the next in my strategy plan. This way, I get a reasonable mix of new and old stuff and variation within the old stuff, moving both sideways and downwards in the tree.

          But it would have been so much better to just click the Practice button and get rewarded for doing the section which Duolingo thinks most urgently needs practice.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DrowsyMary

          The thing I dislike the most about the new crown levels, I used to be able to do reviews of old material on the phone, even if I was out of health, but now mistakes made reviewing old material costs you just like new. The second thing I dislike is that it now takes 4 times as long to finish each category. They went from having on average 4 lessons to 12. I'd rather have more categories with fewer lessons, so I feel like I'm making progress rather than days going no where.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/loughjohn

          please bring back level strength bars so we can see our progress on each level and choose where to progress while still working in parallel with the new automatic system :-)

          April 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BunnySteed

          I had gold on everything and also maintaining it religiously (still am) and now got muuuuuuch harder wit the crows, that’s why the placement. They added a ton of new words and it’s literally super hard. So I guess they kind of placed you where you should have been placed. I don’t mind to have to work again for gold. Learning is learning, and not about maintaining a gold tree with easy exercises. So yeah of course it’s s shock to loose the gold tree, but I also know that in one Year from today I’ll be speaking / reading much better than today.

          April 17, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4oYBIxtO

          I have not seen any new words

          April 17, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BunnySteed

          I finished the whole tree in german, And I am on my 454th day streak. On the last skills of the tree that I am reworking my way up again (because they are the hardest) after level 2 you do see new and harder phrases and new words.

          April 17, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shim

          Hate the new system (also hated the old system). There's a lot of smart people at Duolingo. Why are they putting out this crap?

          June 6, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/phoenixsphinx

          What I care about as someone that has taken a break and now wants to get back to learning: I can not select a lesson I want to take. I can not redo the Hiragana as often as I need to leanr the 4 new signs. No I have to do the whole lesson set.

          This doesnt help me progress it makes it harder and demotivational. Anyone know a good app for learning Japanese?

          July 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DirtyHarri3

          I have been trying to access practice to one of my level 5 crowns (family) but apparently it is locked. I didn't realize that could happen until I read it here. Just doing the practice button does not give me anything but current stuff, will it eventually give me words that I haven't used in a while? Just wondering. I am only going up to level 1 on each skill now, rather than trying to get to level 5. I still like Duolingo and work with it every day since I am fairly new to the concept, but the change a few weeks ago did kind of unsettle me for a bit. I resist change but am learning it is futile.

          July 11, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PeaceJoyPancakes

          I take it you got the new Spanish tree. Have you tried accessing strengthening from this link?

          (Click on the barbell beside the skill.)

          July 12, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bertloan

          This is a comment from 5 months ago and they still have not fixed this. How can this be? I am wasting my time with Duolingo redoing exercises over and over that I already accomplished. Also there seems to be no difference between levels of testing out. One hour spent typing "the man eats the apple" for five levels. Ridiculous.

          September 26, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/louie9000yt

          You're progress is still there it's just even a fully gold on the old version is only a level 1 or 2 on the new version.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/14PraveenK

          Personally I prefer more levels over strengthening.

          I completed the German course over a year ago and the seeing more and more exercises require strengthening put me off using Duolingo. From time to time, I would come on to the app and use it for a few days before giving up. This, of course, did not help as I would then have more exercises to strengthen.

          Levels persuade me to believe that there is more to learn rather than more to revise.

          April 9, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4oYBIxtO

          I think that a major problem is the translation from the old system to the new. Users who have done most of a tree should have been given five crowns for the basic sections.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrisK.

          What about learners that come back to a language after a long hiatus? Instead of being allowed to attempt a tricky topic, like one of the subjunctive tenses, from the first lesson, the user is forced to resume from the most difficult level that he or she previously attained?

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sardiver

          This is the third or fourth time a shuffling of the lessons has caused me to have to start over to seemingly achieve progress. I'm right there with you.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vollname

          By the way, where has the Owl disappeared?

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4oYBIxtO

          It is replaced by a crow... Sorry, Crown

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/liz290966

          This just ruined my day.. I guess going from %ages to crowns seemed like a valid option to them... My guess is that their measurement of progress was ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ anyway and this was their way of moving away from something they were doing wrong..

          April 29, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GrahamCraw1

          I only got the new system yesterday and I've been wasting my Sunday playing around with it, and I have to say that I think it's a great improvement. Of course there are some glitches that need sorting but overall I like it.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tamil173138

          booooooooooooooooooooo i love crown levels

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/daKanga

          I see you have posted an identical post in the French forums.

          So I will post here the similar response I gave there.

          Please take the time to read :
          https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26739837 Crowns FAQ.

          If you are serious about understanding about Crowns, this is the post to read. And this is also where it is appropriate to discuss , after reading it, and the comments others have made, about concerns / questions you have.

          This post about Crowns FAQ will give you more information about the crown system, and will answer many of the questions you have. Please take the time to read the header post, as well as the replies of further questions and information people have posted there. If after doing that, if you have a new question or issue about crowns, it is the correct procedure to ask/give your input there, rather than create a confetti of spam about issues you have strewn across forums and over time, where issues can be lost.

          Also, if you want a challenge, you can read this announcement in German: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26745636

          Thank you Chris52496 for choosing to be such a positive language learner and participant in this environment.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatarzynaK593395

          It's a pity that the FAQ doesn't even load, though... Also, thank you for "ungolding" all of my skills, scrapping hours of my hard work and making it harder to know which skills to strengthen first.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/4oYBIxtO

          I totally agree with you, and also for me, the link only gave me an error.

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnaSmith507855

          I read that post and commented there yesterday and since then over 200 other comments have been posted on that thread, and it's not possible to keep up with. The comments, from my estimation are about 20-1 against this new system. I am extremely frustrated and will probably just stop coming back anymore, which is a pity because I used it almost everyday.

          If you are some DL shill, maybe instead of playing spin doctor, you could see that a whole lot of people are very upset and frustrated by this "upgrade".

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zckDIdLA

          I completely agree that it seems as though Duolingo have no interest in actually listening to this feedback. I have only had time to scan some of the multitude of comments on this thread and it's pretty clear that Duolingo has messed up.

          Speaking as an erstwhile product manager, producing a UI that's as complicated as the new one will always alienate a lot of users. Good UI design is about simplifying and making things obvious. I understand that they want to be able to provide learning opportunities to people with more advanced skills, but the approach they have adopted is clearly demoralising and demotivating a lot of learners.

          For me the obvious simple way to improve might be to provide some way to set a goal globally, e.g. achieve "crown" level 3. Those skills you have achieved your goal for would then go gold like before. If you completed all skills at that level it would suggest you increased your goal.

          However that would still leave the issue that in the more basic units each level is effectively just 101 ways to say the same 4 or 5 sentences (Bread and water, Bread, water, water and bread, etc.). The only way to solve that would be to allow you to jump to a much higher crown level and "test out".

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aaronheiss

          YES. I am dissatisfied with the options of either dealing with depressing amounts of repetition to convince Duo that I actually know how to say "water" and "bread", or leaving those skills at level 3 when I know I'm at level 5 there. Absolutely nobody should be told they need to do the former, and the latter? If you seriously want us to ignore that, consider what you're asking us to do: you want us to disregard the system's evaluation of our abilities. Are you surprised that that would lessen our motivation?

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tomdwil

          I've had flu for nearly a month and so haven't used DL - I am now totally flummoxed by the new system since there is no indication for me of how it relates to the previous system and I am totally lost! There's no information on what the different colours mean and I'm faced with either starting all over again at the top or giving up - this must be the worst example of what I call "upgrade degredation" in the history of the Web! No prior consultation, no ability to maintain one's progress in the existing system, just a top down de facto decision - shame upon you.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RobCrownsSuck

          As a subscriber, I used feedback to let them know of the killer criticisms and total boring slog they have created, making it clear that termination is much more likely than more money.

          April 12, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulKlenk

          You need to look at the majority of comments in this section. It is quite easy to see that MOST, the majority of the users find the Crown System detrimental to learning. That should tell you something.

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gestaltwandler

          Stop Whining like a spoiled child and learn again. If you are not able to then give up......just stop whining

          April 8, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aaronheiss

          Do you see what you're doing here? You're telling someone who has committed both time (496-day streak) and money (plus account) to Duo, who has presumably gotten a lot out of it (level 25), that they should just quit because the system has suddenly and irrevocably become significantly less useful to them. I don't see how that helps at all.

          And the comment to which you posted this reply in no way constitutes "whining"... it is no more nor less than an observation of a substantial amount of serious discontent, with the implication that PaulKlenk shares that. Dismissing other points of view -- especially ones shared by a lot of people, with concerns that have not adequately been addressed, or in many cases even acknowledged! -- is condescending and counterproductive. So I don't see how that helps, either.

          April 10, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gestaltwandler

          I am not suggesting he do anything. I am stating that if he is no longer able to learn, that he may give up. I don't think that anybody should give Duolingo up because its changed in any way. He has posted several times that he wants the old system back. That I think constitutes whining. It reminds me of the Remoaners that want another BREXIT referendum.......I hate Politics by the way.

          April 12, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/borQhuester

          The English FAQ link currently gives a 404/page not found error. Here is a translation from the German FAQ (courtesy of Google translate- so there are some errors!):

          There is a new official announcement on the crowns in the English-speaking forum. Here is a rough translation:


          Hello everybody!

          Several months ago, we told you about the skill levels (now referred to as Crown Levels or Crowns) and how excited we were to make them available to everyone. For a while every new user gets the crowns. And as you've probably noticed, we've begun to migrate older accounts to the new system.

          Of course, any change brings many concerns and confusion, especially with such a dedicated user base. With this latest expansion of the crown system, we have collected many feedback and questions from you! Not only do we want to address the main concerns in this forum posting, but we also want to email everyone who moves to the crowns to make sure we reach all learners.

          So here's a bunch of questions and concerns, as well as our attempts to answer them. If we missed some, let us know in the comments! [Note: this should ideally be done in the original]

          CROWNS FAQ

          What are crowns?

          Crowns are a new feature that we believe will allow us to better teach. Each skill has its own crown level. If you work your way up a level in a skill, you will earn a crown and, as a result, get harder task types. You can choose to dive deeper into a skill and master the crowns, or jump to the next skill to learn new content.

          This is a complete redesign of the skill tree to meet one of Duolingo's greatest challenges: being entertaining to casual learners while providing more advanced content to more serious learners. Casual learners can still make it through the tree relatively easily, while more advanced learners can gain much more depth by working on their levels and working out crowns.

          One can imagine the crowns as a new dimension of the tree. Instead of just walking down the tree, you can now penetrate deeper into the skills. This allows us to give you more advanced exercises (such as listening and typing in the target language) when you are ready - and only when you want it.

          Please also read the original post for more details.

          I lost all my progress!

          Do not worry, that really did not happen. It may be surprising to suddenly find golden skills colorful again, but all of the lessons you have "completed" will be complete. We continue to pursue your strength for each word as before.

          We even went one step further and used the data to see how many times you saw the words of a skill and how many times you had them correctly to determine if you were in the best hands in level 1,2 or 3. As the levels get more and more difficult, we did not want to place anyone in level 4 or 5 because the old system never did tasks with enough difficulty to score someone there. Of course, if someone already knows the language very well, that's not necessarily the correct level. However, it is at least more demanding than before.

          Will my progress be expired over time?

          There are no plans to let progress in skill lapse over time. Anyone who has ever worked out a crown will keep it! This even reduced the confusion among learners who felt they were losing out when the skills became colorful. We want our users to see how their knowledge grows with each completed lesson.

          What about the repetition on a regular basis? How do I know what to practice next?

          That's something we actively work on. In the new system, the choice is very clear, and some learners love this opportunity, others prefer recommendations for action. We gather a lot of data about the current application to try to create an intelligent system that suggests the right next step for each learner. This will take some time, but it is very important to us.

          In the meantime, there is still the exercise button, which takes into account the weakest words when choosing what to practice. Our community has also shared great suggestions that work for you. Personally [= karint, author of the original] learn new content until I feel overwhelmed, then go back and practice until I feel better again.

          Does the "practice" button do anything?

          The practice works the same as before, but it no longer has a visible effect on the tree. So, while practicing helps to reiterate and strengthen the weak words, it will not level up skills or unlock new content. That was the same in front of the crowns. In the future, we want to replace that with something more convincing.

          Will we have the opportunity to use the old system?

          We want to be completely transparent: everyone will get the crowns. This change is necessary to improve how we teach and to add more difficult content for those who want it. The benefits we see are incredible. We understand that some of you will initially miss or prefer the old system, but we are optimistic that you will get used to the new system and will love it too :)

          The old system had several years of improvements and revisions. That's why we are so excited that this system is even better. Just imagine what we can achieve from this starting point!

          Who has the crowns now? When will I get it?

          About half of all users have the crowns. New users have been around for a while, and we gave some 10% of "legacy accounts" the ability to switch to the crowns. Some users were switched automatically and the metrics for this AB test are also very good. We will be extending the crown system to all users within the next few weeks.

          Can I get out of the levels? It takes a long time to get to level 5.

          Not at the moment, but you do not have to come to Level 5 immediately! In fact, we recommend that you do not work your way up to level 5 in one go. Level 5 is meant to show that you have well practiced the words of a skill and need not practice it for a while. It is completely optional. However, we already think that we can do a better job of encouraging you not to put yourself into a skill, because that will be really monotonous. And of course, we are guilty of motivating you to seek out golden skills!

          We are considering ways for users to demonstrate their existing knowledge of skills, so they can be placed at the correct difficulty level right from the start. We also want to make it more satisfying to complete each level (and not necessarily go all the way to level 5).

          I miss the opportunity to practice individual skills.

          We did not remove the practice of skills, just redefined it! With the crowns we have transformed the practice into more lessons. With the old system you could complete a skill once and repeat it as often as you like. With the crowns you will continue to complete the skill once to continue, but then it is possible to practice with increasing difficulty and each time to get concrete progress and merit.

          I miss being able to see the words of each lesson.

          We may consider bringing this back somehow, but for the moment we think it makes more sense to invest in better ways of seeing and practicing words.

          I miss my fluency value

          Despite our efforts, the fluid value was never as accurate as we would have liked. The percentage caused more confusion, especially among learners who did not understand why 100% was never achieved. We may come back to this later, but for the moment it will do more harm than good.

          I can not decide what lesson I want to do.

          We want to offer and maintain a good balance between choice and guidance. So far we have heard no complaints that the content is too difficult; the feedback is that the difficulty level seems effortless and natural or too easy. Therefore, we do not worry about the skills moving too fast for the learners.

          My tree now looks completely the same everywhere. I miss the golden skills.

          This is also one of our own biggest reviews on the crowns. We're trying to find other ways to make the crowns look better, so people can feel content when they reach each level, not just at level 5. There are many ideas on how to do that, but it's not easy Create a 5-step system that does not conflict with the existing colors and makes everything too complicated. We are actively working on it!

          You say the crowns have turned out very well in the AB test. What exactly were the effects?

          We saw the bank grow: learners used the app more, stayed longer on Duolingo, completed more lessons, typed more in the target language, and did harder drills. We are working on a blog post to share some of these results with you!

          Thank you for being such a passionate community. We are happy to see both positive and negative feedback, as it shows how important the experience of Duolingo is to everyone. Please continue to help each other learn and grow, and we will continue to do our utmost to bring you the best possible language learning experience.

          Happy learning!

          April 7, 2018

          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/acuario04

          bye Duolingo. You will lose many students.

          April 7, 2018

          [deactivated user]

            only the strong survive

            April 9, 2018

            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LszlKojani

            This development is a total failure. Good bye!

            April 8, 2018
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