https://www.duolingo.com/Semeltin

Suggestion: How everyone would love the Crowns :)

[Please consider listening to this feedback, Duolingo-team. :)]

I really like the new opportunity to reach higher fluency and get more translations into the target language! But unfortunately many people are unhappy.
Therefore I have thought about how everyone could be happy with the crowns. And I've come to a solution:

  1. You could bring back testing out for individual lessons (and for crown levels). –Otherwise reaching higher levels takes too much time for people who are already good at a language.

  2. You could bring back lesson strength in the following way: The lessons should become golden after strengthening but become colored again after the algorithm suggests they should be practiced again. But only up to crown level 5 when the lesson would remain golden throughout (or maybe platinum) [because you have surely mastered its content]!
    While the lessons are golden, the crowns on the right could tell you which level you have reached.
    – This way, people could know when skills should be practiced again and would not feel discouraged when practiced skills are not golden.

  3. You could bring back a possibility to view all words in a lesson –That is because many people seem to want this opportunity to preview the words.

  4. Please consider bringing back timed practices before the 5th crown.

  5. Maybe the difficulty of higher crown levels could even be raised.

As a bonus: maybe you could make the general strengthening button advance your crown levels when words from a certain lesson are practiced.

Now, I've probably forgotten something, so any suggestions are of course welcome.

[Here are other suggestion/solution threads by like-minded users: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26861444 " The good and BAD of Crowns - hoping someone from Duolingo reads this"
https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26859817 "Solution to the Crown system" ]

April 8, 2018

106 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/LICA98

As a bonus: maybe you could make the general strengthening button advance your crown levels when words from a certain lesson are practiced

THIS - -

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Grinsekotze

Absolutely. If this is not changed in the near future, I think I will abandon my streak and stop using Duolingo regularly. How in the world could they decide that Practice would not contribute to progress anymore? That is so unbelievably stupid!

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ziolkowski420

I already uninstalled duolingo from my devices. And I will not start using it again, because I cannot be certain that it will not waste my time again.

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

Ah, so you admit you were here to earn colored circles rather than learn? B/c I'm pretty sure they didn't take what you'd learned away from you.

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/hanspersson

And yet, here you are.

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ziolkowski420

YES! How perceptive of you!

I came to express my utter disgust with how this software was converted into a piece of garbage.

And now, I am gone.

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JWSB28

He's complaining because he lost something valuable to him and he is expressing his dismay. In the far hopes that he might get it back.

You? You're just trolling.

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Mel_italian

Those are really sound suggestions, especially reintroducing the option of testing out and keeping timed practice (pre-gilding) for more advanced users. I hope the duolingo developers will take note....

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JWSB28

I hope to win the lottery.

Don't hold your breath.

April 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/theShmuli

Language does not remain in your easily accessible memory forever. Duolingo has enough data to make a genuine evidence-based SRS which brings back words even if only once in a year or two. Of course, this means they would need to be serious about language learning and not just ad revenue.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Semeltin

I see what you mean. But if many users just give up practicing altogether, then this is both harmful to their learning progress as well as Duolingo's ad revenue. And crown levels can offer higher difficulties without casual learners being deterred. That is why I have been looking forward to the Crown levels and am hoping for them to optimize it for more people.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/theShmuli

Well, I am one such user that is moving on to other apps because I now find duolingo unuseable. I think many people will jump ship if SRS is not brought back, or if no guidance/recommendation of what to study next is introduced. If you make an app to teach a language, then inevitably people will move on once they speak that language . The solution is to offer something more advanced, or to target other people who don't know the language, or to offer multiple languages. Making a course unnecessarily long just for revenue is a silly approach.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Trilby16

Where to jump to? I don't like MEMrise or Babbel, so.... I am very upset with Duo today. I get up at 5AM every day just so I can do some lessons before work. Today I have wasted that time on outrage. But this new version is a disorienting mess, What am I, 5 years old, that I need all these cutesy bright colors? Was it not colorful enough before? I'm just disgusted and so annoyed. People who work at a perfectly good website, a GREAT website, wake up with a wild hair one day and have to change things around, shake it up, just to what? Justify their existence???

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JWSB28

Oh, you mean like introducing crowns and driving away all the users?

April 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/elvper

For me the leveling would have to be dynamic, I don't want to review a ton of easy exercise to then finally reach the more difficult exercises when I'm already able to successfully complete the easy exercises with few errors. Score well -> quicker leveling.

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26856975

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Semeltin

rafauljo pointed out, that you can view your progress and which skills are gold by opening this link after replacing USER with your user name: https://www.duolingo.eu/USER/progress
Leave him a like in his post, please
https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26850594

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/tamar684596

I too have been extremely upset over the new crown format. This app not only gave me a way to learn a language that was fun and encouraging but also a way to relax after a hard day at work. Now I feel defeated before I have even started--I am so overwhelmed by the amount of material and the lack of direction (when I depended the "degrading"mechanism of my golden lessons).

Trying to find a silver lining, I went up to level 5 on one section. The same words and sentences were repeated over and over and over. There was nothing gained other than a headache after completing it.

To that end, I clicked on https://www.duolingo.eu/USER/progress. I wanted to point out that if you take it one step further on that page, click on the title of the section and you will see the list of words in that lesson! At least there is that......

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JWSB28

"I went up to level 5 on one section. The same words and sentences were repeated over and over and over. There was nothing gained other than a headache after completing it."

This.

I keep seeing all this propaganda that it gets harder as you go up in level.

Nonsense.

April 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/brazensun

I'm all for repetition, but there are other fruit in the tree beyond "apple" and "orange."

It's maddening. I do not need to be tested on these basic vocabulary words. EVER again.

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/dizrythmia

Exactly. All this talk about it getting harder as you progress to levels 4-5 is nonsense. Maybe it is on the Spanish tree or something but it's not that way for all languages. I tried to get to level 5 on everything in the current language I'm working on and it's just repetition. Not even lots of it, just "hey let's see how many sentences we can make about food just using six nouns."

Maybe the next step DL is going to do is add more vocab so it's not so mind-numbingly boring trying to get to level 5. To that I'd say they should have done that at the same time this new way was implemented. I completed the language tree back in its pre-crown form, I still always had lessons to do every day to prevent decay. That's fine. The way it is now, there's no possible way someone could get an entirely gold tree.

It may not mean much to some users, but for many finishing everything meant you had a decent grasp on the language. Now it just makes you feel like you'll never be finished learning all the ways to include the word banana in a sentence.

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/dizrythmia

I definitely agree that lessons get harder as you go, but I've found that even the later lessons get really repetitive. It's less evident when doing just one lesson per day, but when you try to do a bunch from the same lesson, it's obvious that you just get the same handful of sentences every time. Now that I'm so close to the end, I just use practice instead of selecting specific lessons so there's a chance sentences from two or three skills will be used.

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/NancyMihalich

Thanks! I followed your instructions and learned that I can see the list of words in each section! I'll bookmark this for future reference because I'm sure the skills further down the tree are more difficult!

April 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/tvltvl

Hey, thanks for repeating this here. I found some more interesting things to reduce Crowns frustration. Check this https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26865733

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Semeltin

Great thread! So you can still test out the lessons by adding /test behind the lessons' links?

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JWSB28

Too bad that they can't link this on the top of the page.

Oh wait, they can!

What a cluster flop!

April 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Japhansra

I had loved this new system!! Now I'm doing exercises with full energy to see what 's the end...

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Semeltin

I think, in conjunction with the page https://www.duolingo.eu/YOUR_USERNAME/progress it's great. You get the info about the strength of the lessons and when you do these lessons, you can get the new levels. I am hoping, this continues to work so well.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/W-Ruggles-Wolfe

Very helpful! Thank you!

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/W-Ruggles-Wolfe

@Semeltin: Follow-up question re: the link you posted.

My crown tree lists me at crown L5/0 for the Basics1 and Basics2 skills, but as I'm typing this, the below page lists them as follows:

  • Basics 1 @ 75% +2 lessons 5
  • Learning: Basics 2 @ 75% +1 lesson 5

Questions are:

  • Any idea re: how I got to L5/0, while still missing lessons? (I worked them to L5 in the new crowns system)
  • Why is Basics2 listed as "learning" when it is at L5/0?
  • Is there some sort of "data explanation" page which explains what the data means/how calculated?

Thanks!

https://www.duolingo.eu/W-Ruggles-Wolfe/progress

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/shadowofthemoon

Edit:

You seem to have been switched to the newest french tree shortly after you were switched to the crown system - you practiced enough to get those 5 crowns and then you got the newest french tree, and when this transition happens the tree usually (i.e. always) gets rearranged and some of the skills become incomplete even though you have completed them before - this is why you have Basics 1 @ 75% +2 new (rearranged) lessons.

"Learning" basically means that you started the skill i.e. you did at least one lesson, but you didn't do all of them - that's why there is "learning" next to Basics 2 (you completed 1 of the 3 lessons in this skill), and there's nothing next to Basics 1 because you didn't complete any lessons there after they were rearranged when you got the newest french tree.

April 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Katie7317

Thanks, its very helpful to know about this page. It's great to see all the individual lessons again, and go back to repeat them whenever I want. Although it's made me realise Duolingo has removed some of my progress. For example, I've already completed Times and Dates, but now it says that I haven't done any of it. I can't say, go back and do lesson 7 or something without working my way through all the previous lessons to unlock it. I have no idea why and it is very annoying. Doe anyone else also have this issue?

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Semeltin

If you are missing lesson decay, here are some user scripts: This new user script by Camilo-A2 can suggest what you should practice now: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26849592

Someone posted a link to this other userscript somewhere. I don't know if it still works:

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/22449961/Skill-Strength-Viewer-userscript

This may display your skill strength, but I have not tried it because I don't have any experience with user scripts.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/NeSmilga

This is good update for more advanced lessons. I was always wondering how after 3 lessons with max 10 exercises you get "gold" in a quite complex grammar topic, it was simply not true. So having levels in the same topic is more realistic evaluation of knowledge and fluency. Thanks a lot for this. But you have to change this for initial lessons, as it is mechanical repetition of the same exercise.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/aaronheiss

I absolutely agree with you -- for the more advanced lessons. Trying to get the minutiae of the subjunctive, or when to use which case, or other later lessons, is something that requires a lot of practice.

But for the beginning lessons, it's tedious and frustrating to have to type sentences like "The boy has an apple" and "Thanks, bye!" hundreds of times, after I've already finished the skill tree, just to have my gold icons reassuring me that I don't need to learn this again. I do not have time to spend on that, and even if I did, I would neither enjoy it, nor learn from having spent it.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/zanzaboonda

I'm saving the easiest ones for my, "OMG, it's 11:50 p.m.!" days. I'm trying to match the number of crowns for each level.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/NeSmilga

You are right, it is not fun to repeat several times the same exercise, I just faced this myself, thinking why the exercises could not be slightly different, using all possible forms of tenses...So I need to edit my previous comment...

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Semeltin

piguy3 posted this in https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26854922:

“To see the words introduced in a skill click the "Start" button for it; then delete the number at the end of the URL and hit "Enter".”

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/aaronheiss

Good to know that's still around. Bad to Duo for making it inconvenient to find out!

General tip to everybody involved in UI of any kind at all: removing features makes users irritated. Please, don't do that.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

I don't disagree that people will inevitably be irritated, but having overly complicated interfaces (even if that means they're massively customizable) keep users from ever getting engaged to begin with. Cf. Anki. However, from my standpoint Duolingo tends to take this lesson too much to heart.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/aaronheiss

I agree that the interface shouldn't be made overly complicated. But I don't see how the "new words" list is an unnecessary complication. Having a page for the lessons, like we used to get, would make more sense. Maybe the "new words" list could go at the bottom of that.

Or here's another idea, which would add to the interface, but I don't think in a bad way. Add a button to the pop-up when you click on the lesson, which would load word lists, conjugation tables, and so on, as relevant to the lesson. So you'd only get (say) past-tense conjugation tables if you clicked on the button for a past-tense lesson, but then you'd know where to look for it if you wanted to refresh your memory. I don't think anyone would complain about that complication!

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/tonyph17

Sadly this does not seem to be available on the Android app which I prefer to use.

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Charles215113

I've thought of how everybody could be happy too. Get rid of this major failure, put everything back as it was and let us keep learning the way we were! Problem solved!

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Einat162

No 3 is the most important to me -since not all courses have an official TinyCards deck by Duolingo (Welsh) . BTW, if anyone is interesting in the old course notes (including words) https://files.fm/u/qvc2gsah

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Trilby16

I love Tinycards and always USED TO learn all the vocab there for a new lesson before staring the corresponding Duolingo lessons, which used to be broken up BY VOCABULARY. Now it's all mixed together, which BLOWS.

May 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/sbethrogers

I find that some words are harder for me to remember than others. I liked having each of the lessons show what words were the focus, so I could spend extra time in the areas I knew I was weak in. Now I just move on because I don't want to spend that much time revisiting the entire section. :(

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/SvenskaElev

For me suggestion #3 is the biggest, thankfully there is a bit of a work around for this in the meantime.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/abby.prince

I completely agree with this! Especially the option to test out. I don't want to verify 35 times that I know "el ángel" before getting a crown on the Spiritual lesson in Spanish. That's so demoralizing!

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ThomasPrik

i am all for point 1 and 3, the rest would not hurt either

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Angela872862

Yes, yes, yes. I want to see all the words in a Lesson first. I write them down and add the ones I remember and look up the remainder before doing a lesson. It is my way of remembering.

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/rontaya

I am not very motivated anymore. I loved going into practice mode and "practicing" against the clock. I liked how I could slowly bring each skill to gold. Now practicing doesn't count as anything and is independent to the level or the number of crowns. Yes, it is still possible to practice that way but there is no visible sign of progress and if you do that daily you never know where you are. The only way to increase your level is to go into each still and practice. But the "against the clock" feature is not on there and I usually have to practice words that I have known for a long time. I am just working on the "stories" now as they are interesting, it's good practice, and when you finish they'll still turn gold. I hope Duolingo doesn't stay like this and level (and crowns) are linked once again to "practicing".

April 19, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/rontaya

In the old system I could strengthen about 10 skills in 15 to 20 minutes. I just had to practice against the clock, and I could get through lessons quickly and it would always be pertinent to what I needed to review. Now I have to click on each skill, can't choose which aspect to review, and it takes forever to finish. It's not as rewarding or fun.

May 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Luis

We're working on many of these!

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Scutigera

Well, that's nice... I guess. How long will it take? Weeks? Months? A year?

Cause I am totally demotivated now, this moment, in the present time.

I did 27 exercises over the last two days (quite a bit more than I usually do as I learn more from the sentence discussions than rote repetition) and when I checked my words (1700) those 27 lessons that did not even get me to Level 5 in [the very] Basics 1 (the very first unit) covered an amazing total of 24 words. Words that come up often in the later units.

Words so basic and repeated so often I make mistakes because I have no interest in the exercises.

And during this, despite 30 skill points just did not register at all, I leveled up. No fanfare, no cute graphic like last time, no lingot reward.

Just this:

Despite this is still on the site:

I know, I know. Insert all that about how it doesn't matter, it is just about learning the language not imaginary internet badges, but if that were so then why have any of it including crowns? Why have points and streaks and any other kind of measure?

But bottom line is I really do not even know where to go in the tree anymore. I do however know where I do not need to go and it is not, girl, boy, man, woman, apple, water, milk, bread, drink, eat... Yet all that which does not matter at all now looks broken and I feel like a failure. More than a year of my life wiped away by something that does not matter. :(

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ThomasPrik

same here... i am making mistakes, because i just dont want to strenghten stuff, i am not yet ready for

and then everything takes even longer... and is even more discouraging...

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ziolkowski420

How to lose the most dedicated users because of an "improvement"?

Right now I have lost 157 day streak because buying freeze on mobile somehow didn't register and I have no motivation to continue with this POS of software anymore.

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/tonyph17

Thank you for acknowledging that you have seen the numerous comments made about the changes introduced by the Crowns system.

Many like me are irritated that the benefits of the previous system with spaced repetitions, the ability to repeat any lesson, visibility of the lesson content, practice strengthening earlier skills and particularly decaying progress are all removed for no apparent reason.

Please make these features available again as an optional or permanent setting very soon.

I read elsewhere that to move from 3 Crowns to 4 is 3 x the number of lessons at the first level and moving from level 4 to 5 is 5 x.

If a skill has 10 lessons, as some do, this means 30 lessons and then 50 lessons to reach levels 4 and 5. I cannot believe there is enough advanced material to properly justify this. If there is then the Crown level needs to go above 5. For basic skills I read that there is excessive repetition - the higher Crown levels need to be removed and allow a decaying method and practice to remind users to refresh.

I wait to read from your team the changes you will be making to keep regular users happy to continue the learning progress.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/KuttlerChr

I also agree ... I do not have much free time to spend in Duolingo, but I was fine with this ... making slow progress, and could level out nicely between (of course necessary) repetitions and learning new lessons. Now I have the feeling to go lost, and if I'd like to push some of the first lessons to higher crown level, it would cost me incredibly much time (to be honest, I really do not need all these many repetitions to memorize something). It feels a bit like Duolingo expecting me to be an idiot ...

I think, in the long time run, if it stays like that, I will have to look for another possibility to learn foreign languages, as the new version of Duolingo obviously doesn't work for me.

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JWSB28

Advanced material?

Is the same questions over and over again.

April 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Clodaghph

I totally agree with the above.

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/kerstis

Strongly agree. I was just about to ask Duolingo team to make it possible to go back to the previous system. If someone wants the crowns, ok, but I am really irritated. The crown system is confusing and stupefying, period. And I was too stupdidly trusting to accept it, hoping for a real improvement not some child's play.

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/mathchoo

If strengthening earlier skills is your goal, you can try the following site:
http://duome.eu/username/progress

It displays the tree strength and provides links to DL strengthening exercises.

May 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/dizrythmia

well why weren't they implemented before this huge roll-out? that just seems silly. i'm not exactly a casual user of the site (it may look like it, but it's taken ages for me to get to level 25 in dutch. i've been working on it daily since 2014!) whenever changes are made to a website, there's always going to be some people dropping off because they don't like the change. of course, there's also going to be new members signing up daily. so there's going to be this huge change, with another change to come some time in the future? why release a flawed version instead of just waiting until the whole thing is ready?

i've learnt languages in school, i've got a bachelor's in german so i know how useful repetition is for language learning. but the problem is there's no new content. the amount of repetition, especially in the earlier lessons, is frustrating to have to go back and do now that i've been learning this language for years and nearly at the max level. at least i only have to worry about getting to level 25 for the sake of being a completionist. hopefully this new process is a bit less frustrating when you're starting to learn a new language.

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/elvper

Can the current version be considered a bare-bones implementation?

I like the increasing difficulty but I dislike the fact that it takes a ton of reviewing before you reach the higher levels, even if you're already able to complete the easy exercises without any issue (boring and a waste of time).

For example a skill consisting of 10 exercises that you've completed, I don't like that it requires a fixed number of 10 repetitions to go from lvl 1 to 2 and 20 repetitions to go from lvl 2 to 3. If somebody gets 90% or more of the questions in a repetition correct the first time, it should (sharply) reduce the amount of repetitions needed to level up. For example only 3 instead of 10 repetitions to reach lvl 2, so somebody can more quickly reach the more difficult exercises when he's doing very well on the easy exercises.

Linked to this, maybe the system should learn patterns in the performance of somebody. If somebody tends to score well on vocabulary skills, the system can prepare a more concentrated list of exercises to go from lvl 1 to 2. If that same person tends to score poorly on verb conjugation -> normal exercise path.

I've talked about it a little bit more in depth here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26856975

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Trilby16

Work on rolling back to the wonderful website you already had!

April 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JWSB28

I can't believe this comment got 26 upvotes.

You took a system that all of the users were happy with, gutted it, replaced it with a system that is awful, that no one wants and when we complain about how bad it sucks you say you're working on it?

Why don't you just roll it back to how it was and implement some changes bit by bit and see how folks like them.

Typical ivory tower disconnection.

April 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/hanspersson

What would be nice would be some kind of "semi-test" element to getting to a new crown level. Something like that you not only need the number of repetitions as now, you also need to have produced at least one repetition of the lesson with no (significant) errors.

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JWSB28

I see that the cheerleader isn't 100% satisfied with this schlop.

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/hanspersson

Did I ever say I was?

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Mel_italian

Great! I am looking forward to seeing them reappear

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ofred19

I don't think there should be the possibility of "testing out" of crown levels. Testing out of a skill in the old system was far too easy: 20 questions and you only need to get 85% of them right to be done? It worked to an extent in the old system because it was all integrated into an SRS system, so even if you got them all right, the words would still decay and come up for review over time. But if there's no decay then 85% good enough (where typos/diacritic mistakes aren't marked wrong) is thereby good enough for all time.

One alternative that I think might bridge the gap would be to use a streak system of some kind. So if you do, say, 3 repetitions of the exercise where nothing is marked wrong, then you get a streak bonus, so that every correct exercise repetition contributes 2 to upping your crown level instead of 1. That way if your mastery of the skill is such that it's not a challenge for you and you're breezing through the exercises not getting anything wrong, you'll climb out of the skill levels faster until you hit a level of difficulty where you need to slow down again.

Something along those lines.

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

In principle you can get to level 5 still making lots of mistakes. Maybe that's an issue of it's own, but given that it's the case I don't think a more straightforward quiz-out would be unreasonable. Agreed it would have to be a lot harder than what we've had up to now. Maybe 50 questions, almost all into target language, with max 2-3 misses or something. (Shouldn't be 100% bc people do make typos and there are missing answers.)

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/ofred19

This is true, but then it will keep looping the "wrong" answers to the back until you get them right. There's no way to "cheat" the system in that sense. If attaining CL5 requires answering 500 questions correctly, then you have to answer all 500 of those questions. This is good, because the software makes you put the reps in, and it means that achieving CL5 in a skill actually means something. Contrast this with the old system, where, again, all you have to do is hold it together for 17/20 questions, and you can very easily look up translations and retry the test until you get it, thereby netting you 70-90 XP in 10 minutes without having learned anything.

I know you're broadly pro-Crowns given your posting history, so this is a bit of preaching to the choir, but the old system was just far far too forgiving in terms of handing out XP for little effort expended in terms of actually learning the language and for reinforcing via the golden tree, the misguided assumption of mastery.

Another thing I'd really like duolingo to do would be something like anki. You set what your daily goal is, and then duolingo gives you a package of words that are scheduled for review for that day, then you press a button and it has you run through all the scheduled practice sentences until you've got them all done. You know, like an actual SRS.

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

the old system was just far far too forgiving in terms of handing out XP for little effort expended in terms of actually learning the language and for reinforcing via the golden tree, the misguided assumption of mastery.

I think one could make the argument that the new one is actually worse. Given that we don't actually have a clever system for gilding basic skills like the one you laid out above, people are running up lots of XP doing things that aren't helping them learn anything. Perhaps I am not quite understanding your point.

It is my assessment that people incorrectly used a golden tree as a proxy for mastery. Is that what you were getting at with the last part of this?

a package of words that are scheduled for review for that day

So the SRS would determine the words, and then give you sentences that happen to include them? Or would the SRS determine the sentences directly?

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Semeltin

I see your point, but I just want to translate as much as possible into my target language when there's no trace of a difficulty left translating into English. It just seems pointless to me, that I have to repeat the skills a bazillion times to reach the highest level just because Duolingo doesn't want me to allow me to choose the difficulty that I want.

April 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Trilby16

Eh. How about roll back to the version of Duolingo that was just fine, great in fact?!!

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Nicopian

Totally agree, especially with number 1. I have had my German tree gold for about a year now and have been just repeating lessons when they stopped being gold. Now the lessons are all 2 or 3 crowns, although I have done them >100 times! I can see that the new system is helpful for beginners. Great. But where do I start? Do I spend an hour or more making a single lesson 'finished' again? Can't say I'm very motivated to continue learning.

April 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Byron9999

Today I was practicing with the new crowns and the answers that were formerly correct, are now incorrect. Now I'm subject to the losing my Duo "Health." This is wrong. I am taking a break from Duolingo. I'll check in to see if the algorithm has changed, but I'm certain that I won't be alone. Thank you Duolingo for trying something new. I appreciate that. But I will try something else new too.. I may be back.

April 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Djibouti1

i just want the old system back..this new crown system has already made me lose all the fun of playing duolingo...i loved duolingo ,but for this horrible crown system , there is only a sigh i can give.Plz make the old system back! i love the units, the yellow eggs! i do not want this new crown at all!!!!!

April 13, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/FheWIYzE

The following links bring the old Duoling Version back!

https://www.duolingo.eu/username

https://www.duolingo.eu/YOUR_USERNAME/progress

Example:

https://www.duolingo.eu/FheWIYzE/progress https://www.duolingo.eu/FheWIYzE/

You can see the progress from the selected language, which you are learning.

April 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/FheWIYzE

Since yesterday or today it is no longer possible to get into the overview of the individual lesson, with the vocabulary and the respective links to the exercise.

For example with

https://www.duolingo.com/skill/hu/Basic-1-alternative

you're right in the middle of the exercise. The vocabulary of the respective lesson is no longer displayed! There is no longer an overview of the individual subexercises. I'm angry and disappointed!

April 25, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Scutigera

Yep, apparently since yesterday. I had just discovered the workaround and was happy that I could at least use a workaround for the mess that has been made, but mad because no matter how many times I have done the skill (so many times) previous to this "change" (and moved on to many other skills) I was locked out of all the other exercises (they now must be done in order, all of them!).

This is also frustrating because there are several links in the sentence discussions to these units when someone claims they were never taught a word, we could go in and link them to exactly where it was taught. Now we cannot defend Duo anymore and the links are worthless (with the bonus that we, as commenters, look stupid now).

I have been doing Stories instead of the Tree lately because the Tree is just such a disappointing and demotivating mess. But, I cannot see that it will get better now (only worse as with this new absolute force-feeding) so I will be spending much more time elsewhere on the language net. I will look at it on the bright side though that when something does a faceplant like Duo has here that it "forces" me to find something better (for me) rather than being content with something inferior.

Still, it is really sad. :( I had hoped the Crowns would be an addition to the site, not the downfall of it for me (and seemingly many others). I was so happy with everything and grateful too up till this month. :(

April 25, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/FheWIYzE

Scutigera:

Yes, I mean this overview in your screen photo. I can't switch them since yesterday or today when I go to Duolingo.eu/Username/Progress.

Do other users have the same problem?

April 25, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/FheWIYzE

For example, when I go to a lesson.

https://www.duolingo.com/skill/hu/Math/

but the main overview is gone!

Until recently came the overview with the vocabulary that you have posted as a picture. None of this can be called up now.

April 25, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Scutigera

Yes, I know what you are talking about FheWIYzE. I had just discovered myself (via a link in an old sentence discussion) that we could still go to the individual skill units and see, as before, the individual lessons and word lists (despite it was linked on this discussion and probably many others I have been too busy these last couple weeks to follow Duolingo's drama).

I was looking forward to seeing if I could still access the individual lessons again (to redo out of order) if I unlocked them (again).

But I restarted my computer yesterday and reopened that tab without looking at it until I received your comment in the email so that's how I know that it was taken away from us yesterday. Now we just get thrown into the started lesson.

It is only because I hoped to post a new discussion about the lesson units still being available but that we are locked out of the individual lessons that I even took the screenshots before restarting my computer.

What Duo has done is taken away our choices and narrowed our ability to drive our own learning whatever method we choose for ourselves whichever one works best for us. Everything that the Crowns give us is something we could do before on our own:

  • Mindless repetition?
  • Redoing simple lessons late to keep a streak
  • Getting more difficult exercises (through practices both general and from specific lesson units; doing stories and other labs; and even redoing individual lessons)
  • Adding new exercises to lesson units and/or practices (by the course contributors)

As for the Duolingo.eu site, I have not been there either. I am loathe to use another site to make one site complete. I do not know what the privacy policies are there and more, or how the two sites are connected officially. So I do not know yet what that site offers and cannot comment on that or what is happening there with regards to this site here.

But, what I do know is it seems Duolingo served them with a cease and desist on the URL so they have had to choose another. As far as I can make out (and I really do not have time to figure out Duo's dysfunction and coping strategies) there are already three new working links to the EU site which are:

Supposedly the above links will all work for the coming year but then only one will be chosen for continuation. I do not know though if that will help with having access to the word lists and individual lessons (or if the other site helped with that).

What I do know is I am now just more irritated with this site here. :(

April 25, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/FheWIYzE

The only option left is the scorecard at the end of the exercise. There you can copy out the sentences and save them e.g. in Word to practice them.

But this is complex and only an emergency solution.

April 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Scutigera

There will apparently soon be new links (new URL) for this site. Info in this discussion:

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/27015419

April 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/JWSB28

links have been closed

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

The top one is a sample, not a real link. The ones with a real username work.

It is worth noting that they are scheduled to stop working. The domain where they are housed will be changing, as explained in the link in Scutigera's comment.

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/FheWIYzE

The only import thing that stay is the "Strengthen Skills Mode", also called Practice.

You can go into the practice by using for example

https://www.duolingo.com/skill/hu/Phrases/practice

The name of the lektion with and /practice at the end.

April 27, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/lightningboy95

I like aspects from both systems, both the levels from the crowns and knowing what skills to review in the old system. Maybe the developers can mix the best parts of both systems together

  1. The levels are very repetitive which makes them tedious for earlier skills. Maybe the max level could be 3 for beginner skill and 5 for more complex ones. Also to make them less tedious, it would be very refreshing for harder levels to have different words or uses instead of repeating already learned content.

  2. Maybe they could incorporate knowing what skills to practice by making skills turn silver when max level and gold when both max level and strengthened. This would potentially bring up a problem if people are in the habit of not maxing out their skills levels so maybe the skills could have a meter on the side or bottom separate from the skill level indicating how much they need to practice it.

  3. I really want to be able to preview the words again. Possibly Tinycards could be updated to automatically make flash cards corresponding with each Duolingo lesson as well as having the feature to preview words be incorporated back into duolingo.

July 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/IsakNygren1

It sounds like a good idea.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/brother84

Great suggestions!

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/awolanguage

These are all great suggestions thank you for compiling this!

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/aaronheiss

No. 1 on that list is easily the biggest concern for me. Never mind that I am a bit of an obsessive completionist: I really want to master the languages I study as much as Duo will help me to do. Having finished the skill tree, the non-gold icons help me immediately identify those things that I need to brush up on. So I want to get all of my gold icons gold again...

...and I have spent close to an hour telling Duo that I know the words "man", "girl", "apple", and so on. I now face the prospect of typing "hello" and "bye" and "thanks" for another most-of-an-hour.

Please, Duo, pay attention to this. This new system does not strengthen my knowledge of the language. It does not challenge me. It does not help me in any way at all. It wastes my time and annoys me. This is not what you want your previously-enthusiastic users to be experiencing, Duo! It is the opposite of what you want to hear from them.

Please please please, fix things so that intermediate-level users can feel like they have mastered the utter rudiments of a language without having to go through long wasted hours of repetitive babbling.

--ahem--

Sorry, this thread was supposed to be positive, and offer Duo something to help us rather than just to rant. So I endorse the idea suggested above of returning the "check out of this section" option, but I think it needs to be that, if the user makes no mistakes at all), all the previous sections are automatically topped out at five crowns. It would be great if we got the XP from that as well, but mostly I want Duo to stop telling me that I don't know how to say "hello".

We love you, Duo!! (Now please stop making us angry and sad!)

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/piguy3

but I think it needs to be that, if the user makes no mistakes at all), all the previous sections are automatically topped out at five crowns.

I think the kind of test you'd have to have for that would be unfeasibly long. I suspect quiz-outs that lead to level 5 assignment would have to be skill-by-skill. Even the former skill-by-skill quiz-outs were sort of cursory, only 20 sentences out of the dozens and dozens (or hundreds) that could be present. The former "solution" to this was that they didn't stay gold very long (even though the user obviously knew that stuff from somewhere, so it was probably in long-term memory).

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/aaronheiss

I would happily take skill-by-skill quiz-outs. Anything not to have to go through coma-inducing levels of repetition to have Duo recognise that I know the absurdly easy stuff already.

April 8, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Trilby16

I see your comments all over the boards and you are such a shill! You work for Duo, right? Admit it.

May 5, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/fishedout

So, I still love Duo and am happy to practice french with Duo everyday, but I am feeling the loss of the the skill decay feature. Now that it's gone, I realize that when it was operational I had the feeling (not really noticed at the time) that Duo was sort of watching over me, and knew better then I when I was beginning to forget a lesson and would gently remind me with a color change on a lesson that it was time to refresh. I think that sensation, that Duo was paying attention to me personally (I know it's only a logarithm but I'm talking about how it made me feel) was valuable to me and I miss it! I wonder if others had a similar feeling about the skill decay feature?

May 6, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/PuddleMonster

I have a suggestion.

<h1>1. add a toggle to be able to switch between the two platforms. duolingo for schools could lock this feature to ensure uniform practicing.</h1> <h1>2 make is less hard!!!!!!!</h1>
April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Dee955986

I personally like the new Crown system. It seems more gradual and it's working out well for me. I also like the suggestions that have been come up with to integrate the old and new format. Thank you for all that hard work

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/NancyMihalich

Crowns are a breath of fresh air, in my opinion. I'm having fun achieving new levels with crowns!

April 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/I-Transcendental

Well honestly I exhausted the possibilities and discovered that the link does not really lead to the old duolingo experience as such, the only thing it does after trying is to return to the current experience, after all, it's wrong. It would be great if those who manage the duolingo site proceed to fully restore the old duolingo experience as an option so that those of us who appreciate the quality of disciplined learning can continue to study as well as before. Without the desire to bother: the new duolingo experience is retrograde, only focuses on appearing lavish but does not allow we who study have a real control of what we study as with the old experience, and therefore it ends up being lost time.

April 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/daniel80369

I do like the crown system as a way of strengthening modules, however, I do not like how it forces me to learn 50+ new vocab words at once. In the old system, I could focus on one lesson at a time in each module, spending a day or two making sure I have five or so words memorized, pronounced correctly, and completely understood. It was a very efficient method, and what attracted me to Duolingo in the first place. Now, anywhere between 50-100 new words are thrown at me at once with no chance to review at all until I am completely overwhelmed in the cavalcade. Even then, the review is very widespread, covering all of the words in the lesson.

It is like a textbook in school, throwing too many words at you at once, to test you on all of them in a week. It's overwhelming. Not to mention with the lesson breakdowns, I could practice easily anywhere I had my phone. Now I have a notebook filled with words that I can't remember and are hard to keep straight, and find myself having to spend time searching through a dictionary of my own handwriting.

I wish that we could have the crown system to encourage mastery of a module, but only posthumously, after I can actually learn and absorb the lessons. I think of it like stepping stones. I used to be able to jump from lesson to lesson, making sure my footing is secure and stable before making the next step. Without the breakdowns, it feels like I face large ravines that I have to get a running start to leap, and even then, it's hard to get to the other side.

I've done everything I can to leave commentary on this change for the developers to see, but instead have only found forums between users, and that we merely hope the developers happen to look our way to see our comments, questions, and concerns. I am also not a fan of this inability to share our frustrations with those in charge of forming the software that is allowing us to breach language barriers. On top of a reform for making the lessons smaller and simpler, and able to tackle in much easier and manageable way, I wish that they would create a comments section on a grander scale than just each example sentence, so that when large and unexpected changes come that may not be the most beneficial for our learning, that we can let them know.

Thank you, or rather, Tack så mycket!

April 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/rontaya

First the practice mode didn't work to strengthen your level or count in any skill group. That was bad enough, as it was my favorite and pretty much only activity.. That was how I kept my tree gold before. But now we are even locked out of the skills lessons too so we cannot freely choose what aspects of the lesson we want to practice nor look to see what words are in the lesson. I don't even bother to try anymore. I am glad I was able to finish my German and Italian trees at least once before this terrible change happened. Now I'm just going to work on the stories until I finish them. Then I probably will look for another place to learn.

April 25, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/laurenjb233

i just want gold levels how do i get them?

July 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/NancyMihalich

Good morning, Lauren688082! You should concentrate on completing all of your lessons first. Then, you can go back and get the Crowns to Level 5 on each skill. Keep up the good work!

July 10, 2018
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