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  5. "qeylIS luHo' wo'rIv martaq j…

"qeylIS luHo' wo'rIv martaq je."

Translation:Worf and Martok admire Kahless.

April 8, 2018

22 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pendantry

Vocalisation (male) on this one is incorrect. He definitely doesn't say "martaq": it sounds like "maraqaq".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qunchuy

I must contradict you. It is definitely martaq, with the r not trilled but lightly flapped, and a distinct t. Even when listening repeatedly while tying to hear it the way you describe it, I still hear only the correct pronunciation using either the (high quality) laptop speakers or a pair of earbuds.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

Yes, what pedantry is hearing as raq is just the correctly flapped r followed by a t. This entire sentence is pronounced excellently.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pendantry

We'll have to agree to disagree. I definitely hear "-aqaq", not "-taq" (I do NOT hear "raq", which is what you say I hear).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qunchuy

I shouldn’t deny what you say you hear, though you’re apparently denying it yourself. You described it as “maraqaq” and then said you don’t hear the “raq”, which is curious (and makes me wonder if you’re just trolling). However, what you described is not what is being spoken. My advice is to train yourself to recognize the pronunciation as correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pendantry

No, I am not trolling. I am genuinely trying to highlight what is clearly a problem in the entire system here. I understand what you say about my confusion with the "raq", and I apologise for introducing that confusion.

The issue, I believe, is that we are not listening to the same audio files. I've encountered another example today: see my comment at https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/47948539 .

What appears to be happening is that, in a lesson, I am being presented with one audio file; I comment on it to say that there is an issue with it, but the audio files on offer in the forum are different from the ones in the lesson. It's going to be impossible to convince you that the problem isn't with my hearing, or my speakers, but with the audio files, since we're not comparing like with like.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

The Contributors of this course do practice the course as users so that we know what the users are experiencing (and because it's good practice of the basics, even for those who know the language well). None of us have encountered this problem and we have not seen other reports that could not be explained. I'm sure you can understand how that makes us skeptical. I do believe that you are having some difficulty, but it's hard to imagine that it's a problem with the system and not just a problem unique to you somehow, since no one else is experiencing this problem. A recording of the problem happening would go a long way to giving us some evidence that we could analyze and then provide to staff to prove to them that there is an error worth their time to track down.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pendantry

Contradict away. I hear no 't'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

In the Hawaiian language, the "k" and the "t" are considered variations of the same sound. When I listen to the sound I hear a "t", but then I know the name martaq well and it is a logical thing to be there for me. When I listen to the sound as if I am listening for "marqaq", I do, indeed hear "marqaq". Somehow, on this sound file, it sounds to me like the part of the sound that makes the location of the tongue contact clear does not come through well. It is definitely a dorsal plosive, but I will agree that it is not the clearest example for a distinction between the anterior or posterior plosives.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qunchuy

I can't hear a q no matter how hard I try. I can manage to hear it as a /k/, but that's not a sound in Klingon. The resonance of a t is much "higher" than that of a q.

The start and end of the final syllable in the word's audio are absolutely not the same sound, at least when I hear them through my laptop's "High Definition Audio" output. I can imagine that something with less high-frequency fidelity might blur the distinction between the phonemes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Qunchuy

If your device is accurately reproducing the recorded audio, then what is reaching your ears has a t. Whether or not you recognize it, you do “hear” it (assuming your ears work in the typical manner).

At this point, it’s up to you to learn to recognize the sounds of correctly spoken Klingon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tsvi_

Why does ‘Martok and Worf admire Kahless’ come out wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

wo'rIv martaq je is "Worf and Martok," not "Martok and Worf."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tsvi_

So you can’t change the order?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

That's right.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mylesmiles

I put in Martok and Ward admires Kahless, shouldn't that be another correct solution?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

No. Because Klingon puts words in a different order than English for some things and the same order as English for other things, we are very strict about word order. Perhaps there would usually be no important difference between the order of the names, but you've probably seen comedy bits where two authors argue over whose name goes first. Sometimes it matters. The person saying the sentence might intentionally be putting one name (or phrase, or clause, etc.) first. Another thing is we don't want our learners to develop a habit of reading the sentences in reverse order. You may have noticed that the audio is read front to back, so if you are listening to Klingon you won't have the chance to read or hear the sentence backwards. Learners must get used to reading and hearing the sentence front to back. So when translating, if the grammar requires you change the position of some word, then you have to change it, but if the grammar allows the position and order to be the same in both languages, then we are going to require you to keep the elements in the same order. The Klingon sentence lists Worf first, so your English translation should also list Worf first.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AbbulFiles

Why "Worf and Martaq admire kahless" is wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pendantry

I think perhaps that may be because 'martaq' (Klingon) translates (quite bizarrely, IMO) to 'martok' in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

It's not a translation, just an Englished pronunciation of a Klingon name. The Klingon syllable taq in martaq sounds like the English word tock, (as in tick-tock), not tack (as in thumbtack). Klingon a sounds like the a in father, not the a in apple.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Basically because English does not end names with "q" and the Star Trek producers decided it should be spelled "Martok" in English. However, we have a policy that the Klingon spellings of names are supposed to be accepted in the English sentences, but we have carried it out inconsistently and could use some help finding the sentences that don't accept the Klingon spellings in the English sentences. If you get a sentence wrong and the ONLY error you can find is that you used the Klingon spelling of the name, please use the report button to choose "My answer should have been accepted". Then we can add that option.

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