I am so demotivated by new Crowns system!
I am so disappointed every day I open Duo now and see the mess of colours with no visible achievements showing...
As a long term Duolingo user I have completed my German and Spanish trees several times. Like many others I enjoyed that I could see at a glance where I needed to direct my efforts, ie anything that wasn't golden. This kept me on top of my language skills and if I'd been a bit lazy, I could just put more effort in to turn my skills back to golden - and feel the sense of achievement for having done it. Now it just looks daunting. Where to begin? And as a seasoned user why would I want to go right back to the beginning anyway? It's also too much effort to turn the skills golden. Yes it may mean that we do more exercises - undoubtedly true - but for many of us time is scarce and previously it was great to be able to just nip in and nip out.
Most of all I just feel demotivated now. We humans like to see our progress! The great thing about the original format was that it was fun and progress was quick, keeping moral high. Every day I felt I had achieved something. As I said above, now I just feel daunted...
Many of the frustrations of this new system have already been aired in other posts but I am writing this in the hope that Duo will read all the posts and give the people unhappy with Crowns the option of going back to the old system that we loved.
At "but for many of us time is scarce and previously it was great to be able to just nip in and nip out" I think you really said it. For me, it was that I had this inherent trust of the strengthen mechanic -- you hit strengthen, do a couple lessons a day, and voilá, you worked the program. You knew you were doing the right thing for language learned, the correct spaced repetition, the program did that for you.
You can still do that, they suggest, but in their post they even made a statement like, "we're not sure what the point of strengthen is any more..."
And that was sad.
Revising the weakest skills, or ones that real life told you, needed greater fluency; that WAS the time efficient strategy. Now they have made a badge hunters, zombie slog, where sheer tolerance of boredom and dumbed down lessons, are the key skills required.
I am also deeply demotivated. Why do you have to turn off our previous achievements and why do I now need to go back over very very basic stuff to get back to my all golden tree. Surely you can find some better way to introduce updates to the system than this. Please show how I can regain my previous achievements.
Well, we're two so. I didn't like this new system, for me is a palliative way to solve old troubles like the ending immersion. Sometimes I don't know what to think about.
Just noticed how many courses you've completed! Kudos WarriorCleberz!
Thank you Sparkly, but I'm seeing you've a nice streak too! ¡Saludos! Pronto usted también llegará al nivel 25 en español, y particularmente me gusta mucho ese idioma :D .
I do agree with you. It even changes the reviewing system. I wish we could choose between the two formats.
Agreed. Worked hard to get to High school, only to be pushed back to grade school. However, thank you DL for getting me interested in the first place. There are countless other apps to try, but really didnt want to.
I couldn't agree more.
Today I completed an unbroken 365 day streak but I don't plan to ever use Duolingo again as long as they keep the stupid new crown system. For a total beginner I expect it's fine but to expect users with years of experience to have to go right back to basics (I mean such things as interminably repeating 'yes', 'no' or 'I am a boy') is ridiculous.
Today I decided to give the new system a try so I worked through Levels 2, 3, 4 and 5 of Basics and am sorry to report that the questions do not get harder as you level up. You get exactly the same questions repeated over all the levels. Now that is disappointing. Maybe as you progress away from the basic lessons there might be more diversity but I'm inclined to think not. Please let me know what you find.
I must agree, i haven't used this "new system" much but i already dislike it, feels like all my progress was for nothing, i thought it was fine as it was before, a little bit more organized. I was learning fine with it, now i don't know what happened, i have "crowns" which i have no idea what they are good for and now i gotta go back to the old lessons and re-do them, and i'm not even sure how i'm going to progress now and what i'll be learning each lesson...
Personally, I'd planned on paying for Plus this coming month. (I start new services in April/May so I know when to pay annual fees.)
Thanks to the Crown update...for saving me money!
There's no way I'm paying for Duolingo now. I'm not paying for an app that, as was said above, forcibly removes our biggest source of motivation. Forcibly changes the entire learning structure with barely any warning. Apparently ignores thousands of dissatisfied users.
Heading over to the app store to leave a review saying the same. I don't expect it will do any good at all, but it's something.
I feel as though I have more of a visual representation of progress now with the new system. A fully golden tree gave a false sense of security and "completeness". A fully golden tree with all skills at level five would give me a greater sense of accomplishment, especially considering the fact that they give a total of how many times you practiced the skill to make it gold. You never really knew how many times you re-gilded a skill to keep your tree golden with the previous system.
With the new system, you have to redo the skills an insane number of times to get to level five. Maybe it's good for difficult skills but it makes no sense at all for the basics skills when you already finished the tree (and so already repeated indirectly a lot of times these basic things in more advanced skills).
The way to learn is not to repeat as much as possible. It's to repeat what's more difficult for you at the right time (and yes, repeating it too soon is also bad to build long term memory). It was exactly what the old system of decaying pushed you to do. The decay speed of skills was faster for skills that were more difficult for you (and even more, when you practiced a skill, the priority was on words or sentences you had more difficulties with).
Tl;dr: Number of repetitions is not a good metric of progress and need to repeat again. Accuracy and time since last repetition is a better metric. And that's what was used before.
I don't mind the practice personally - doesn't bother me to do the basics 50 times.
Whilst on the main site, you can click on "Words" on the top bar and this will tell you which words you need to strengthen, with bars similar to the old strengthen bars. If you click on the word a window appears that tells you which lesson that word appears in so you can go back and redo that lesson. Also in the window is a great deal of information about the word, it's tenses and some examples of uses. I'm not sure if this was on the site before but it is a very useful feature in Duolingo.
@mk939 You obviously are not familiar with scientific findings on this kind of learning. An efficient system tunes to you, good students remember words after 7 reps, most 12-14; BUT I bet there's words you heard once, that you shall never forget, they are burned in. Therefore your performance needs to be measured, in my real life class in quizes, the teacher could see not only correctness, but how fast answers were. There's a huge difference between when someone is drilled and just knows it, than when they have to figure out the right answer between alternatives. Finally repeating stuff, as they are hard to access is most time efficient, because your brain has to heavily reinforce those connections, for fear of losing information only occasionally required. So the Crowns repetition without SRS guidance is actually counter-productive to your learning potential, you are using a strategy of over-learning. You want it to be right, because you've invested time in it, but IT IS WRONG. Crowns suck, end of!
My initial impression was that the new crown system gave you more advanced learning as you get more crowns on each subject. From what I'm reading here, this is not the case, the subjects just go over and over the same level until you've completed it 5 times. Is this true?
DAO_2468 That's certainly my limited experience so far. My initial understanding was the same as yours so I hope that's the intention going forward. Maybe they just haven't fully rolled it out yet or maybe there's less scope to increase difficulty in the early basic lessons which are the only ones I've reached Level 5 in so far. I would be interested to hear what others have found in this regard.
Hi Yim Yam, after reading a very lengthy write up about the introduction of Crowns, it seems that the old system only took you to Level 3 maximum and since its implementation the higher levels (4 5) apparently go much further with learning, or at least there is now scope to take it much further. As I’ve not attempted anything beyond level 3 yet I haven’t seen any evidence of this, only “useful“ phrases such as My Pink Shoes. You say you haven’t seen any evidence of this so far so maybe the release of crowns was a little premature.
NOPE! I took stuff to level 5 to see that.. and it's just not true. The same exercises await you, just packaged as 30 lessons instead of 20 at level before, the exact numbers vary. There's NO new content .. it's course creators who are responsible for that, not the crowns system. What they did is withdraw certain questions types at lower levels as some people would be frustrated by getting them wrong.
Oooh well that's very interesting and encouraging to hear! I hope it's true. I've only reached level 5 in basics so far and it seemed to be the same old questions repeated over and over, but maybe further into the course there will be more scope for greater learning. I really hope so. Btw. Are you smoking a chip!? ☺
Haha, yes I’m smoking a chip in Funchal, Madeira, I’m an ex smoker and we were probably talking about smoking at the time.
You get no harder questions like translate English into Spanish until higher levels. More lessons, but repeating examples. They may be altering this in updates but as DuoLingo are not honest or open about changes they do, it's hard to say how much I was infuriated by poor app & teaching design of crowns or if due to bugs, meaning it was not working correctly. Some people seem oblivious to the same question being asked 3 times in a short lesson, either it's psychological denial or the system performed badly for certain kinds of users, who were not beginners.
Well it's one week on and I still haven't warmed to the new Crowns system. However I do have a further gripe. I went to use Duo on my phone today - the first time since the Crowns rollout and I can't believe how much they've ruined the app there too! I get that we have to have the wretched Crowns, that's not the problem, but we used to get lots of multiple choice questions and be able to tap on the words of a sentence - all much easier than typing out long sentences in full on a phone and FYI Duo we don't need practice typing in English - multiple choice options are all that's needed here!! Ruined. I used to love doing Duo in bed because it was so easy to just tap on the answers. Now I doubt I'll ever bother with the phone app again. There's no point as it's no different to doing Duo on a laptop now. Pre-Crowns the app was brilliant as was the skills practicing feature on the laptop - I just don't understand why they've removed all of their own best USPs.
I agree Sparkly, I love typing as long as I have keyboard as I can touch type, it doubles up as practicing two skills at once. However, trying to complete all the extra typing on a phone, especially my tiny iPhone 5S, is something of a nightmare for me in English, never mind in Spanish. I'd spend the morning in bed on my days off work ploughing through Duolingo exercises and when at work on nights Duolingo was the perfect companion. I can't believe how many mistakes I make typing on my phone which transfers to wrong answers in Duo and then the painstaking exercise of typing it all out again at the end of the lesson after getting a wrong answer, so frustrating! I'm now wondering if it's possible to connect a wireless keyboard to my phone via Bluetooth, this would make life so much easier whilst using Duo.
Agree I was loving this app, used it everyday on the way to work until a glitch removed my 50 day streak and they would not reinstate and then the crown system put me right back to the start. I cannot even practicve when my health expires. Thanks for nothing Dou. you lost me......
Hi Stuart578920. I've seen a few references to the health feature on the Discussions board but I have no idea what it is. Could you explain please because I don't think we all have it? Thanks :-)
HI Sparkly. In order for me to use the app (which is how I pratcice on the train, on the way to work) I need to have a full health disk which allows me to do my lessons. Each wrong answer removed (you only have 5) and when all are gone you have to wait till you are full. Before you could pratcice to get more health but with the crowns this option appears to have been removed and you have pay$ for health or wait a day? very frustrating. I am about to leave the Duoling system, which before now I raved to people about. Hopfully Duo will listen to us and give some options back Stu
Use Duolingo's web version on your phone/tablet (www.duolingo.com), because it .......
does not have the "Health" system and gems
will work in the newest version of the Chrome or Firefox browser on your phone or tablet, if you have rather good Wifi (or LTE/4G with an Internet bundle)
For the best typing experience:
- set the browser to mobile mode
- use the phone in portrait mode
Health was only present on iOS, apple. Some people bought Android cheap phones for DuoLingo because of it!
This new system has totally killed Duo for me. Being unable to curate my own practice or even see the words I'm supposed to be learning, combined with the excessive repetition, I haven't used it in days, nevermind bothering to even start a streak. In their pursuit of the next hot gimmick, they fixed what wasn't broken. Duolingo is dead. Very sad.
I think you're right but I'm really hoping they will listen to all the complaints and claw something back... :/
Honestly I don't think they care. I haven't scoured these forums, but my impression so far is that they're just ignoring all of us.
Which is why I propose we all stop using Duolingo, cancel Plus if you have it, and let them deal with huge revenue losses. It's the only thing they have to care about.
I fear you are probably right but it's such a shame. They have sabotaged their own product...
Exactly right. I have been struggling with this for 300 days straight and now all record of progress has disappeared. This is really demotivating and suspect many will seek an alternative.
Something else that's bothersome since the new Crowns system is that Duo no longer syncs between phone and laptop. So lessons that I have laboriously completed and turned golden on my macbook are still all infuriatingly multi-coloured on my phone. Has anyone else found the same and how does this make sense?
The levels should be the same. I did have trouble with progress not getting saved when they introduced Crowns, meaning I had to repeat the repetition. Presumably from MacBook you're using the website and on a phone either the ios or Android app. ios has the horrible health system, but people have said when blocked from progress, they could work normally on the website, so that shouldn't be it. I've come to the conclusion it's simply not worth bothering with the levels, you can just use re-gild your tree according to this page. Get strength to 100% by doing as few lessons in each skill as you can. Then you can spend time in another system, I'm enjoying Bliubliu & Clozemaster for instance, as well as HelloTalk https://duolingo.eu/SparklyYimYam/progress
Thanks for those great recommendations, I'm checking them out now. Really good to have other options - thanks Rob! :-)
This still worked for me on iOS, it would take a little while to update my progress though (20-30 seconds). All progress is saved to your user profile on Duolingo so should be reflected on both your mobile and your laptop. I can only suggest updating your phone app as I had some problems before I updated.
I'm happy to say that today finally they appear to be in sync! Very weird as I also had a different number of lingots on each appliance too... but all's good now so one less thing to worry about! ;-)
I’m glad to hear that Sparkly. If it happens again try logging out and back in again on your phone app as that is the most likely candidate for out of syncness.