Crowns are Useless (Again)
I really do not understand the purpose of the crowns. My goal has always been to advance thru the tree and maintain gold on all icons. When one was not gold, I would go back and make it gold. It is frustrating to have a tree with no gold and seems to be a useless exercise.
I am pretty good at Italian and very conversational (I spend 4 months in Italy/year), so to have to dedicate 30 minutes to turn Basic 1 back to gold or level 5 is a big waste of time. Especially when you consider the fact that you have to type over and over again phrases like, "Io sono un uomo," "Una donna," or Il ragazzo manga la mela."
If you are going to have us go thru 5 levels, with each containing 5 to 9 sub levels, challenge us. Build on the last level. Don't just repeat the same phrases.
Sorry for my rant, but I find this very frustrating and not useful at all.
This new system has totally killed Duo for me. Being unable to curate my own practice or even see the words I'm supposed to be learning, combined with the excessive repetition, I haven't used it in days, nevermind bothering to even start a streak. In their pursuit of the next hot gimmick, they fixed what wasn't broken. Duolingo is dead. Very sad.
I agree with you.
It is pointless repeating 5 levels with the exact same questions and answers. I also miss the verb conjugation drop down link.
Hughcparer has suggested a work around for this at the moment:
I have a Wiktionary shortcut set up in Chrome, so all I have to do is type "wikt word". It's about as quick as reaching for the mouse to click on something, and it gives more information. That might be a good interim solution for you.
Does anyone have any other suggestions for Italian verb conjunctions ?
This website also has verb conjugations for English, French, German, Spanish and many other languages.
I bought a Bescherelle for Italian verbs from Amazon. If you arne't familiar with Bescherelle, they produce a book similar to a dictionary for verbs in all tenses. They have all the main verbs, the three groupings by verb ending and all the irregulars in every tense, in all persons. At the back there is a glossary of every verb I can think of indicating what model it follows and referring the reader to the page where the model is conjugated in full. Marvelous tool. I had my first French one in high school and still use it. The instructions in the Italian one are in French which is not problem for me. Even if you do not read French, the Italian is pretty self explanatory. I usually pencil in the English meaning of the infinitive anyway to build my vocabulary.
I bought a little app called Verb Forms with thousands of verbs conjugated in all the tenses, with pronunciation and even tests and flash cards. I think I paid $2.99. I would have paid $30 if they had asked me. It is that good.
I definitely agree with you over the verb conjugation. I generally can now conjugate German and French, which I had been learning for some time before the changes, but I am still struggling with Italian, which I have only been doing for a few months and have never had conjugations shown.
(I answered your first post!!!as follows): Sì sì, lo vedo ma posso dire, con diplomazia, il ragazzo "mangia".... I know, it's the frustration. Can I just say, I nearly wept when I was "crowned" and added my complaint to hundreds of others. But I love DL, it has done so much for me, so I tried before I cried, learnt from other students and now I have found its rhythm, the red mist has lifted and I am content again. Why not do just one Basic, move on, start at the foot of the tree (which now doesn't have to be all gold), test it out, find what suits you. It's all there, I promise. Tanti auguri, Linda (who would love to spend 4months/year in Italy). P.s. don't forget it's a Saturday night and people are Duo-free for a few hours, just saying ...
I love DL, too. But, I still struggle with the new format. Again, I do not believe that repeating "Il ragazzo mangia la mela," is important. It needs to take us on a journey of learning. One lesson needs to build the next lesson. At this point it is jut repeating what one has learned (learnt) from the last. Let's have some complex sentences in the same tense as we proceed thru the unending levels to get to level 5. Il ragazzo mangia la mela quando la ragazza chiede per una mela e la mamma ......" It needs to be more challenging if it is going to be that extensive to et from Level 1 to 5.
I am with you ! I do not intend to repeat a very basic learning level that I am comfortable with that I know and know well.
I hope you invest in the time to read What are Crown Levels?
And that you may seek to choose to extend yourself, with how you consider is best for your language learning. Such as to progress on through the tree, so you get an idea of all the language grammar topics that are covered. Then to choose, when you wish to, to study more on the levels that you feel you would like to understand more, or would like more practice in.
Also do not forget to read the "Tips and Notes". They are located in the little "light bulb" icon.
And also to check out the wealth of knowledge in the Sentence Discussions as well.
Or alternatively, you could also use the Practice button that is always available to you. I mention where to find this in another post here.
By overly delaying the end of the game, the gamification aspect is rather spoiled. I don't personally care, but I can see why one would.
I like the new system, it starts from simple exercises, you unlock Level 1 crown and can move forward, or you can go deeper into the particular skill. There is repetitiveness between the levels indeed, but in general sentences become more complicated, sometimes you have to guess or to use a skill acquired in other topics, use logic, combine more variables etc. I wish they implemented the system when you can go some level back to go through it once again. And yes, the vocabulary is now hidden, but you can find it on TinyCards. Just to keep the tree golden is somewhat dull.
In my understanding you can choose whether or not to work towards higher crown level so if you wish to continue advancing through the tree then you may do so as normal but like you said it wont be aesthetically pleasing as an entirely gold tree was
Yes, the golden tree was a magical thing, a golden incentive. Ah well...
Well if you want a golden tree then just work your way up to the level 5 in each skill. Not that hard
Indeed, since the "test out: feature was attached to each skill about a week ago, I completed my Italian tree to level 5 within a few hours. It was our national day and too hot to go out in the crowds. Last week I got 24,308 XP points in no time at all, compared to the 600 previous days I have put into learning. I am not writing this to toot my horn. I am writing to underscore the needless mindless repetition that would have gone into arriving at gold the old way. Sometimes I scooted through 36 full lessons in the time it takes for a usual 10 XP points. So the crown system is wonky.
I am grateful the test out option returned, as my objective was to reclaim the use of timed practice. I am a little worried my 24,000 points will be use to convince advertisers that crown keep users on the system longer. That is not what happened.
Yep. I like the test out feature a lot because then you can ''finish'' the skills that you know you already know and won't forget. And hey, congrats for your full tree!! I have a lot to go yet haha
Is there a "test out" feature again? I want one so badly. It's so boring to have to go through things you already know to get a golden tree. I don't know why I want it gold...lol, but I do. I hate the repetition. Sometimes I go to my computer and do it there because I'm a fast typist, but it still takes time. Is this "test out" on the app or computer only? Maybe it's just in Europe?
Yes the test out feature is back! I heard somewhere that it's not on all accounts (when I heard that I didn't have it) but then I got it too and I still have it. I have it both on my computer and in the app, but you should totally check it on your computer! It came first there for me and later on the app. It should be next/little bit up to/from the ''start'' button.
Thank you! I just checked and it's on the computer. I use the computer a lot because I don't like when the app gives me choice words to complete a sentence. I can guess easily and put a sentence together on the app. I like the computer telling me to translate a sentence with no help at all. Thanks again!
Agree. And the old system can detect you have mastered above skills when you study/revise botom skills, but in the new system, regild the botom skills seems won't change the above ones.
It really pains an OCD to either waste time or feeling the incompleteness.
"...so to have to dedicate 30 minutes to turn Basic 1 back to gold or level 5 is a big waste of time."
Then don't do that.
The fluency rating was always totally inaccurate and now doesn't exist, so I'm told. Move on, be happy and enjoy your learning.
Linda7Italian, I agree... be happy. Golden tree, crowns? What does it matter? One only has to do one lesson (crown 1) to move on to the next lesson, so why fret? We are blessed with a FREE learning platform, which is excellent. I am missing the point to all this hand-wringing, when duolingo has offered us so much, for so long, and we are all responsible for our own learning. And again...it is FREE!!! Have a lingot on me... LOL! Another doo-dad with little meaning, but I give it with a smile!
Ah, but where's the grazie for all those nice people who took time out to respond to your "rant", your word, or post. We're a friendly crowd and like to help.
How can i reset the crown? It's that even possible or this thing is forever?
i saw a post that you how to change back to the old duolingo the thing is that i forgot to save it . anybody know the link ?
I couldn't get it to work for me. Then in another group a technical fellow explained at the level of coding and assumed DL would plug that gap??
I must say, I am with you, and impressed by that site.
Not for seeing my "golden skills" but to see the other information. And ponder on how I can use it to improve my own language learning.
I went back to the Duolingo EU site and this time managed to find my username on the the list. In experimental mode, I chose two skill where the new system only assessed me at 2 crowns. I clicked on them and received the old "test out" feature. I got though both skills with one heart remaining. I received a message as I clicked "Continue" that though I did not "test out", I was now at crown level 4 for these 2 skills. However, when I went back into my Crown .com version my crowns for these two skills was still at 2, even though I refreshed. Somewhere on the forum I read that things done in the EU version will migrate to the .com version. Again, please, am I missing un petit truc? un piccolo trucco?
Do be aware duolingo.eu is not something that has been created by, nor is maintained by Duolingo.
I do like pondering on the information provided by duolingo.eu, and how it assists me in understanding my learning, and advancing it.
If you find this assists your real language learning, then I strongly recommend you continue to use the resources it provides.
And to remember things such as crowns, lingots, streaks, etc are all bells and whistles, that are using gaming theory science to encourage you to repeat an activity. I also hope I can be more intelligent than being stimulated by just gaming theory tricks to really pursue my goal to advance my language learning.
I fully agree. At first I thought the crowns to be interesting, but the novelty soon wears of when you have to do 18 (yes, eighteen) lessons to get Adjectives 1 from level 2 to 3, but wait, only 24 (no, i am not kidding) to get to level 4. And what is the point? I know most of the silly sentences off by heart (i was on level 23 after all) and quite often answer after only reading the first word or two. I get it wrong often, but thats because i don't have to focus, not because i don't know the right answer. It would be useful if the phrases were at least different if not harder.
CROWNS has gone from being interesting to just plain boring. The challenge now is to stay interested and stop looking at the myriad of other resources available to learn a language.
You have a point, that it is sorting out the casual gamers/learners from those with greater dedication and/or a passion to learn a language.
I would highly recommend not trying to get to crown 5 on each level before moving on. That this will not advance your learning as quickly, and also that the amount of repetition on a narrow level will also be, as you point out .. well boring and repetitious. Instead it should be a long term encouragement for you to achieve over a long time period.
As contrary to other products duo has mentioned ( tongue in cheek ) language learning takes years to acquire, and years of work.
Please take note : It is quite appropriate to be a casual in your language learning.
Have you read the bit :
This is a total redesign of the skill tree that solves one of Duolingo’s biggest challenges: remaining fun for casual learners while still offering advanced content for serious learners. Casual learners can still go through the whole tree fairly easily, while more advanced learners can get a lot more depth by leveling up their skills and earning Crowns.
Also that Duolingo may not be the most appropriate mechanism for your language learning.
Duolingo encourages and supports you to engage in multiple ways with your language learning. They even support me, with my teams assistance, to create resources on Memrise. ( still in the pipeline )
So please, if you find some other good language learning resources out there that are free, could you consider doing this community the honor of sharing them here. I know the core of our motivated community will welcome and give you kudos for sharing useful information and supporting others in their language learning.
I am with a lot of people disliking the new system and being discouraged
I discovered over weekend the parallel duolingo.eu site enter your username and it shows your analytics, if you filter it by strength you can see the old decay system and can see what needs to be practised. check it out very worth the browse
I agree, Maddie. I just started checking out that .eu site and it's very helpful as I work my way through the crowns. I plan to work with both of them in tandem, though for the moment, my priority is just to finish the French course (with 1 crowns per remaining skill) so I can get my golden owl. Should take another month or two. After that, I'll do lots of practice to explore how it all works, and if it really works the way I think it does (after just one practice session, I had the feeling that it starts by bringing up my 75% skills to 100%, and once I'm done with that, it'll work on the 50% skills etc.). Very interesting.
I completely agree! I know the fluency wasn't probably accurate but at least it gave me a rough idea on how much I need to practice. The crown thing means nothing to me.
Yes, there were issues with the fluency score
Also, have you read: Why are my skills not golden anymore?
And perhaps considered what other motivators you might be best to focus on for your own learning. To really assist your own learning.
I see at the moment on the tags next to your name above, that you are on level 11 Spanish, and with a one day streak.
Is it worthwhile considering to do things such as increase your daily goal, and have a race ambition with yourself to increase your streak ?
Or perhaps put more effort on working through the entire tree, to attain your golden owl.
Perhaps , if you are struggling with a particular level, to decide to read the associated "tips and notes", and for sentences you are struggling with, to go and read the associated Sentence Discussions, to further broaden and deepen your language knowledge ?
The choices are in your hands. I wish you all the best for your language learning, wherever and however you find it most appropriate for you.
I feel like I'm the only one who actually likes crowns. They push me practice more and it's amazing to get to chose which skills you wanna upgrade and study more. I really enjoy the crowns and 100% disagree with the argument that crowns are bad.
They give motivation to achieve more. They give you a tiny extra boost every time you see that you've gained them more than you thought.
I L O V E T H E M