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  5. "batlhHa' vang toral. vaj quv…

"batlhHa' vang toral. vaj quvHa'."

Translation:Toral acted dishonorably. Therefore, he is dishonored.

April 15, 2018

16 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Max_Matthews

are "act" and "behave" different?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

In English, "to act like" and "to behave like" are used in the same ways. In Klingon, Da means "to act like" and "to behave like". This verb must have an object to indicate who or what the subject is acting like.

"To take action" is completely different from those words. vang is more like "to take action". This verb probably cannot take any object, but often has an adverb to indicate what kind of action or behavior is being done (as in the sentence this discussion is attached to, batlhHa' vang "he behaves dishonorably"). I've now added the variations of "behave" as possible translations for vang in this sentence.

There are also a few verbs which are used to indicate specific behaviours: Qaq "to behave falsely honorably", tIw "behave emotionally", etc.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kahless62003

It complains of me having a typo when dishonourably/dishonoured are also correct spellings.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Duolingo instructs contributors to favor American English, but we have tried to add the British spellings in as also acceptable and had just missed this one. They have now been added.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rockhyrax

Is there a difference between he is dishonoured and he is without honour? The "without honour" was marked incorrect, but I don't know if this is because there is a difference, or whether it should have been regarded as a correct answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

Sort of, but not really.

In English we use the same word for two kinds of honor, but in Klingon, they are separate things. batlh refers to the internal concept of doing the right thing. quv refers to recognition by others. In English we call them both "honor". Theoretically they should always exist in partnership, but it is possible for someone to always do the honorable thing and never be honored for it or for someone to be honored even though they are not actually very honorable. batlh can also be used as an adverb to say that an action is done "honorably" (or "with honor"). quv can also be used as a stative verb to say that someone "is honored".

My inclination would be to understand "without honor" as batlhHa', though I admit that you could say it in a way that you actually meant that people don't respect him. But since that's not usually what we mean by that phrase I do not favor accepting it as a translation of quvHa'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rockhyrax

That's the first differentiation between batlh and quv that makes sense to me - thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Melonna

I like to start Klingon with an klingon alphabet,and klingon words to english so i can learn better


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

People (the skill this sentence appears in) is a fairly advanced skill. I suggest that if you are feeling like this skill is too much for you, that you go back and repeat the first 5 skills (3 rows) until you feel more confident as you progress forward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Whaaarrrgh

I typed "Therefore he is not honored". Why is it wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Whaaarrrgh

Oh, forget about it. I just was confused between -Ha' and - be'.


[deactivated user]

    Question regarding -Ha' and -be': so is -Ha' always translated as dis- or un-? Would batlhbe' always be translated as "no honor" and batlhHa' always translated as "dishonor"? There's no way "vaj quvHa'" could be translated as "without honor" or "has no honor"??


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

    I sometimes translate -Ha' as "mis-".

    Since you can't put the verb suffix -be' on a noun and you probably can't put it on an adverb, the word ??batlhbe'?? appears to be meaningless. One might try to interpret it as "honor woman", but I would prefer that were spelled with a space to make it clear it is the separate word be' and not a misused suffix.

    -Ha' on the other hand has been seen to occur on adverbs and even appears with batlhHa' in Klingon for the Galactic Traveler, meaning "to do something in a dishonorable fashion". And since quv is a verb, I have no problem with quvHa' which would mean "to be dishonored in the eyes of others".

    vaj quvHa' can be interpreted as variations of either, "Thus he is dishonored," or, "a dishonored warriorhood".


    [deactivated user]

      Huh. For some reason I thought batlh was a verb. So I could never translate quvHa' as "has no honor" or "without honor"? Would that be quvbe'?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdmcowan

      It gets a little grey around there since the translations don't match up exactly. I would be more likely to associate "has no honor" with quvbe' and "without honor" with quvHa', but in actual translation, I don't think I'd be too picky. In this course we are a little more picky because we are trying to teach two separate concepts and have to find ways to try to distinguish them.


      [deactivated user]

        Fair enough. Thanks!

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