"I asked for some salt after she gave me some pepper."

Translation:J'ai demandé du sel après qu'elle m'a donné du poivre.

April 19, 2018

18 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/stripedkitty

Why is there a QUE before elle? (Instead of 'apres elle m'a donne...) Can it be left out?

April 19, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/relox84

When après is followed by a conjugated verb, it has to be followed by que. You cannot leave it out here.

April 19, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/stripedkitty

Ah, thank you relox84-- but, to be clear, do you mean any place after apres, such as 'a donne' in the example?

April 19, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/CommeuneTexane

The second half of the sentence introduces a new subject "elle" with the conjugated verbs following "elle m'a donné." Because you have a new subject, you need the "que." If the subject doesn't change and you use the infinitive, que is not used. J'ai demandé du sel après avoir goûté le poisson.

April 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf

"Après" is a preposition that you can use with a noun: after the meal

"Après que" is a conjunction, starting a new clause: after + new subject + verb

April 21, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Bouchka1

Hello Sitesurf, it seems to me that the subjunctive imposes itself here "après qu'elle m'ait donné" Thanks for your answer.

September 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/relox84

"Pourquoi ce dévoiement du bon usage? Comment éviter la faute devant un tel abus de langage?"

It's through this kind of absurd sentences that you can tell an article was written by the Académie.

September 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/CommeuneTexane

Coucou Bouchka !
I'm not Sitesurf of course, and far from a French grammarian, but I read this article some time ago regarding après que and avant que. L’Académie Française instructs that it should be "avant que + subjonctif" but "après que + indicatif." This is for logical reasons as well as grammatical since "après" suggest the idea of an action completed or fait accompli, whereas "avant" implies that it is in the future. Even when après que is used with an action that hasn't yet occurred, the current convention is to use the indicatif.

Course we can always wait to hear it straight from the horse's mouth. Sitesurf?

September 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/CommeuneTexane

relox84,
I think the fault for that over the top sentence is sensational journalism rather than the Académie.

Here's what l'Académie Française actually says.

It may be a losing battle against common usage though. They also recommend that capitalized letters take their proper accents, but that seems to be rare in print.

September 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf

@CommeuneTexane: About accents on capital letters, it totally depends on where the book was printed.

September 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf

Hi Bouchka, I have never used a subjunctive after "après que" because I had excellent teachers (starting with my mother) who would not let me. Sadly, many teachers didn't and don't even know the rule (nor many others).

September 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Gaetan339894

Shouldn't the expression "après que" always be followed by the subjunctive form in French? So the correct way should be : "(...) du sel après qu'elle m'eût donné du poivre" or something like that right?

September 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/relox84

Subjunctive is used after après que in spoken French, but strict Academic grammatical rules state it must be followed by the indicative (which sounds wrong to virtually all native speakers).

"après qu'elle m'ait donné du poivre" is what you'd hear from a native speaker. "après qu'elle m'eût donné" is subjunctive imperfect, which is completely archaic: in speech nobody uses it anymore, even in writing it tends to be avoided.

September 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Sitesurf

Not true, it sounds wrong to native speakers who have used the subjunctive long enough to have troubles fixing an old habit.

September 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/relox84

i really don't get what needs to be "fixed" here, also I've never met anyone for whom it was natural to use the indicative instead of the subjunctive after après que. It's simply not how our language works anymore.

September 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Colin-San

I too have always used the subjunctive, and I didn't even suspect that I was wrong in doing so! So, French language learners, get ready to be wrongly corrected by french native speakers!

March 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Petrus148323

Why would donnée not be accepted? I am writing this as a female, where (m') in m'a is feminin

March 4, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/CommeuneTexane

You make the agreements with the direct object, or the thing (or person) directly being acted upon by the verb. In this case, it is the poivre being physically given. Me or m' is the indirect object or the person receiving the item, but m' is not being given.

Here's a different example where the direct object is a person instead of an object.

Il m'a vu(e). / He saw me. The verb voir is acting directly on m' so it's vu if m' is masculine, and vue if m' is feminine.

Please see our Tips and Notes for more information: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/30149500

March 4, 2019
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