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  5. About the tips/notes on -vIp

About the tips/notes on -vIp

[deactivated user]

    You will rarely hear the -vIp suffix from a Klingon with a prefix indicating that the subject is "I" or "we" -- it's a cultural taboo to indicate that the speaker (or a group including the speaker) is afraid to do something.

    What about with -be' (-vIpbe')? I'd think that would be an obvious exception that might be worth throwing in there. It's pedantic but also probably worth saying instead "unless it's followed by -be' ". Unless of course I'm wrong and it's just taboo to use the suffix with a first-person word at all...

    May 3, 2018

    8 Comments


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

    The trouble is, we don't know. Outside of The Klingon Dictionary, -vIp has only been used twice canonically: once in the second person (bIHeghvIpchugh if you are afraid to die [The Klingon Way]) and once as a nominalized verb (SuvvIpghach fear of fighting [paq'batlh]). We hardly ever see it, let alone seeing it negated in the first person.

    I'm satisfied with the note on -vIp as it stands. I think the point of the taboo is not simply to avoid -vIp in the first person, but to avoid saying that you're afraid of something. If you negate it, it's probably fine. Though maybe Klingons are nervous about unscrupulous video editors cutting off the -be' and playing back «jIHeghvIp—.»

    May 3, 2018

    [deactivated user]

      Though maybe Klingons are nervous about unscrupulous video editors cutting off the -be' and playing back «jIHeghvIp—.»

      Lingot'd for this. But would that mean they're afraid to be taken out of context?

      May 5, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

      (be taken out of context)vIp tlhIngan.

      May 5, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E.T.Gregor

      In the Klingon dictionary, there's an example sentence using -vIp in the first person, but negated. I think that's pretty good evidence that the taboo doesn't exist for -vIpbe'.

      May 11, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

      Except that example also shows -vIp in the first person and not negated.

      It's a cultural taboo, not a linguistic prohibition.

      May 11, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E.T.Gregor

      Where is that? The only first person example I can find is the versions of "pIHoHvIpbe'" used to illustrate the roving nature of -qu'. I cannot find an unnegated first person example.

      May 11, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DavidTrimb3

      Sorry, I was misremembering the example as demonstrating roving with -be' instead of -qu'.

      May 11, 2018

      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E.T.Gregor

      Point still stands then. Also, from boQwI': "The unstated exception to the rule is that it is not taboo if "-vIp" is negated with "-be'", as illustrated by the sentences on TKD, p. 49"

      This is not just my opinion then.

      May 11, 2018
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