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  5. "El niño y su padre."

"El niño y su padre."

Translation:The boy and his father.

May 18, 2018

45 Comments


[deactivated user]

    Is there a way to tell if this statement should be "the boy and his father" or "the boy and your father"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

    No. It could be any of the possessive adjectives "su" can translate to: his, her, their, your, its. Context is all you can rely on.

    You could try to narrow the possibilities textually by saying something like:

    El niño y el padre de él - The boy and the father of him. However this would sound weird and still be open to interpretation in both languages.

    El niño y el padre del niño - The boy and the father of the boy. This would narrow it even further, but again, weird, and there is still no guarantee the second boy is the same boy as the first.

    You could make it even more involved and state textually beyond all doubt that the father is that of the same boy already mentioned, but it's easier just to say "El niño y su padre" and let context save textual clutter.

    As an aside, this is why legal documents are often so wordy. They are textual attempts at preventing differing contextual interpretations. Thank goodness for context I say.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ItisMoody

    not that there's a huge error, but I answered "the boy and his father", Dulingo marked it as correct and suggested "another correct solution": the boy and his father (exactly the same phrase) - does anyone know why?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carla825233

    This curiosity is why I'm here!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

    I believe that the DL program creates new offerings for students by using a logarithm. As a result, when a correct new translation is submitted for the first time, the page in question is generated using a form. Then when other correct yet alternate interpretations are submitted, the form has already been generated to accept and display other correct translations.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sanychAZ

    I had the same question! 8^)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatlegoMaboe

    I've had the same issue before. Anyone figured out why?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
    Mod
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    • 2636

    Sometimes that happens when you have an extra space before or after the sentence.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aZJEJ

    So you can use "mom" for madre but not "dad" for padre?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

    Of course you can use "dad" for "padre." See my comment elsewhere on this page.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pat183383

    Is el niño accurately translated as the child? And if it is, is it explicitly gendered? I put "the child and its father" which makes sense in english if you don't know the child's gender but it was marked as wrong


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EugeneTiffany

    "El niño" can be translated as "the child." A male child.

    "Los niños" can be translated as "the children" which can include both boys and girls.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Clairey569389

    I was also under the impression "el niño" could mean "the child" or "the boy". I thought the default was the masculine. Eugene, how do you then say "the child" (singular) if the gender is unknown?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robyn162970

    By mistake I typed in "The boy and their father." It was marked as correct. So su must also mean their? In English the sentence I wrote doesn't make sense.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
    Mod
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    • 2636

    "Su" can mean something belongs to:
    él
    ella
    usted
    ellos
    ellas
    ustedes

    It makes perfect sense in English as well, regardless whether you accept the singular "they". The father in question does not have to be the boy's father.

    Imagine Adam and Bob are brothers. They, along with their father Carl, invite their friend Dave to the park with them. If someone took a photo of Dave and Carl, it would be the boy and their father.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

    Robyn162970, this is a perfect example of when students should check the "There is something wrong with this sentence" option. When enough people flag the incorrect translation, then it gets deleted from the database.

    However, before checking the option, students need to confirm that an alternate translation cannot be used, as Rae.F's comment so perfectly illustrates.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SereneBeauty

    What if you couldn't tell the gender of the child? Wouldn't "The child and its father" be correct?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

    It's possible. If a context could be construed in which the gender of the child is unknown then the masculine "niño" would still be used in Spanish. Perhaps in an academic text you might find a general comment like:

    El niño y su padre forman un vínculo fuerte.

    If the sentence isn't specifically referring to a masculine child then you could translate this into English with one of three possessive adjectives: the outdated "his"; the controversial "their"; or the widely accepted "its". There is probably even an argument for the sometimes seen "her" but to me this sounds just as flawed as "his" when gender is unknown. "Its" is the safest translation in this context, but only in this type of context:

    The child and its father form a strong bond.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

    In theory, jellonz, your comment is correct because "its" is neutral gender. However, if the English pronoun "it" is used, then the implication–at least in English–is that the "niño" in question is not human. As a native speaker of English, I have never heard "its" used to describe a human. The default is either "him" or "her," because humans are one or the other.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

    From the Oxford online dictionary:

    pronoun: it

    1 used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
    "a room with two beds in it"

    1.1. referring to an animal or child of unspecified sex.
    "she was holding the baby, cradling it and smiling into its face"

    1.2. referring to a fact or situation previously mentioned, known, or happening.
    "stop it, you're hurting me"

    2 used to identify a person.
    "it's me"
    "it's a boy!"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deep282128

    It sounds more like ..."el niño es su padre"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarcusXyw

    hah, I wrote the same thing. When I actually thought about it I'm glad I was wrong.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pQpQrOPY

    The female recordings should be redone ... many are just not clear enough to understand what she says.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
    Mod
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    • 2636

    You need to flag it in-lesson and report a problem with the audio. Posting about it in here will not alert the course contributors.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BonnieBuer

    I feel like the speaker isn't fully pronouncing the word "y". To me, it sounds like she is saying "el nino, su padre". It is like that else where with the recordings. When speaking Spanish, would it sound weird to Spanish speakers to fully enunciate the word "y" or should we barely say it to sound more fluent?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vickey961966

    I typed "The boy and his father." The program responded: "Another correct solution: 'The boy and his father.' " I'm NOT seeing a difference here and this is not the first time an ALTERNATE solution was identical to the one I gave. WTH?!?!?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

    See my answer above.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
    Mod
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    • 2636

    Duo glitches sometimes.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AllMEs

    I answered exactly the same as Duolingo and a sign popped up to say that there was "another" translation. Same/same?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
    Mod
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    • 2636

    When there are multiple equally valid ways of saying something, Duolingo likes to let you know that yes, your answer was correct, and here's another way that's also correct. It's part of the education process.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris967368

    Why not "the SON and his father"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
    Mod
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    • 2636

    That would be "El hijo y su padre."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeDaniel690095

    Y sounded like es in the recording, so I responded "the boy is his father". Haha


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JDKau

    What is the difference here between "se" and "su"?

    Is "se" informal? And "su" formal?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
    Mod
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    • 2636

    No. All of them are the same level of formality.

    Su is one of the possessive forms. Se is an object pronoun.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elaine370723

    i picking the correct solutions but get it wrong


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
    Mod
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    • 2636

    What were all of the options and which ones did you select?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gnomeelf23

    I had the same problem. I put "El nino y su padre" and it marked it wrong. It had never marked me wrong for forgetting accents before so I looked at the correct solution: "El niño y. su padre." It appears it marked me wrong for forgetting the period after "y" and "padre."


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gnomeelf23

    When I re-did the question I put the accent mark and it marked it as correct. Why is it suddenly wanting accent marks when other skills, including more advanced ones, don't?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
    Mod
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    • 2636

    Glitch. It should just remind you to watch the accents but otherwise let it slide as a typo.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
    Mod
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    • 2636

    That's a glitch. The period does not belong there and besides, the correction algorithm is not supposed to look at punctuation. Next time something like that happens, take a screenshot and file a bug report:
    https://support.duolingo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204728264-How-do-I-report-a-bug-


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cassidy277252

    I listened to it and there was definitely no "Y" in the spoken one at regular speed.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mark630514

    Father or Dad, why would Dad not be accepted?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grafduckula

    Because there's a different word for that in Spanish - "papá"

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