"El niño y su padre."

Translation:The boy and his father.

May 18, 2018

100 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ItisMoody

not that there's a huge error, but I answered "the boy and his father", Dulingo marked it as correct and suggested "another correct solution": the boy and his father (exactly the same phrase) - does anyone know why?

November 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carla825233

This curiosity is why I'm here!

November 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sanychAZ

I had the same question! 8^)

November 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CrystalSeaShells

Same!

January 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

I believe that the DL program creates new offerings for students by using a logarithm. As a result, when a correct new translation is submitted for the first time, the page in question is generated using a form. Then when other correct yet alternate interpretations are submitted, the form has already been generated to accept and display other correct translations.

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatlegoMaboe

I've had the same issue before. Anyone figured out why?

July 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

Sometimes that happens when you have an extra space before or after the sentence.

July 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/erik2029

Is there a way to tell if this statement should be "the boy and his father" or "the boy and your father"?

August 14, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

No. It could be any of the possessive adjectives "su" can translate to: his, her, their, your, its. Context is all you can rely on.

You could try to narrow the possibilities textually by saying something like:

El niño y el padre de él - The boy and the father of him. However this would sound weird and still be open to interpretation in both languages.

El niño y el padre del niño - The boy and the father of the boy. This would narrow it even further, but again, weird, and there is still no guarantee the second boy is the same boy as the first.

You could make it even more involved and state textually beyond all doubt that the father is that of the same boy already mentioned, but it's easier just to say "El niño y su padre" and let context save textual clutter.

As an aside, this is why legal documents are often so wordy. They are textual attempts at preventing differing contextual interpretations. Thank goodness for context I say.

September 19, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aZJEJ

So you can use "mom" for madre but not "dad" for padre?

September 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

Of course you can use "dad" for "padre." See my comment elsewhere on this page.

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pat183383

Is el niño accurately translated as the child? And if it is, is it explicitly gendered? I put "the child and its father" which makes sense in english if you don't know the child's gender but it was marked as wrong

July 25, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EugeneTiffany

"El niño" can be translated as "the child." A male child.

"Los niños" can be translated as "the children" which can include both boys and girls.

July 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robyn162970

By mistake I typed in "The boy and their father." It was marked as correct. So su must also mean their? In English the sentence I wrote doesn't make sense.

August 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

"Su" can mean something belongs to:
él
ella
usted
ellos
ellas
ustedes

It makes perfect sense in English as well, regardless whether you accept the singular "they". The father in question does not have to be the boy's father.

Imagine Adam and Bob are brothers. They, along with their father Carl, invite their friend Dave to the park with them. If someone took a photo of Dave and Carl, it would be the boy and their father.

November 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

Robyn162970, this is a perfect example of when students should check the "There is something wrong with this sentence" option. When enough people flag the incorrect translation, then it gets deleted from the database.

However, before checking the option, students need to confirm that an alternate translation cannot be used, as Rae.F's comment so perfectly illustrates.

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SereneBeauty

What if you couldn't tell the gender of the child? Wouldn't "The child and its father" be correct?

October 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

It's possible. If a context could be construed in which the gender of the child is unknown then the masculine "niño" would still be used in Spanish. Perhaps in an academic text you might find a general comment like:

El niño y su padre forman un vínculo fuerte.

If the sentence isn't specifically referring to a masculine child then you could translate this into English with one of three possessive adjectives: the outdated "his"; the controversial "their"; or the widely accepted "its". There is probably even an argument for the sometimes seen "her" but to me this sounds just as flawed as "his" when gender is unknown. "Its" is the safest translation in this context, but only in this type of context:

The child and its father form a strong bond.

October 23, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

In theory, jellonz, your comment is correct because "its" is neutral gender. However, if the English pronoun "it" is used, then the implication–at least in English–is that the "niño" in question is not human. As a native speaker of English, I have never heard "its" used to describe a human. The default is either "him" or "her," because humans are one or the other.

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

From the Oxford online dictionary:

pronoun: it

1 used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
"a room with two beds in it"

1.1. referring to an animal or child of unspecified sex.
"she was holding the baby, cradling it and smiling into its face"

1.2. referring to a fact or situation previously mentioned, known, or happening.
"stop it, you're hurting me"

2 used to identify a person.
"it's me"
"it's a boy!"

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

The only humans who can be referred to as "it" are infants/babies, not older children.

In the second bolded example, that is the existential/dummy pronoun "it". You would not use "it" in the possessive here.

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

I didn't say you would use "it" in the possessive here. The example I offered above was in a very specific context in which it could be used. The quote from the OED supports this. Downvoting applicable quotes does not make them invalid.

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

That's just the thing: It's not applicable here.

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

Definition 2 applies to Linda's comment:

As a native speaker of English, I have never heard "its" used to describe a human.

From which I took her to be referring to (rightly or wrongly) "it" as a pronoun, because she said "describing a human", rather than "describing something possessed by a human."

The more important definition was 1.1, which supports my original comment. If it only applied to infants/babies then that is what the OED would have said. If you think your personal opinion is superior to the OED then clearly I can't argue with you.

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JDKau

What is the difference here between "se" and "su"?

Is "se" informal? And "su" formal?

January 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

No. All of them are the same level of formality.

Su is one of the possessive forms. Se is an object pronoun.

January 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JDKau

Can you give an example of "se" as an object pronoun please?

January 13, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FlorenceDA344253

Su is formal. Why wouldn’t tu be correct as well?

September 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grafduckula

That would be "your", not "his".

September 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

FlorenceD344253, for grafduckula's sake, I'm clarifying here that "su" is the formal possessive pronoun that means "your," and "tu" is the familiar possessive pronoun that means "your."

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vickey961966

I typed "The boy and his father." The program responded: "Another correct solution: 'The boy and his father.' " I'm NOT seeing a difference here and this is not the first time an ALTERNATE solution was identical to the one I gave. WTH?!?!?

October 18, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

See my answer above.

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

Duo glitches sometimes.

November 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sharon158589

It did not accept "&" for "and". Is that not allowed in Spanish?

February 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

It defeats the purpose of learning that the Spanish word for &/and is "y".

February 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

My understanding is that it is allowed but rarely used, for the obvious reason that it is not an abbreviation in Spanish, which already only uses one letter for "and".

As added info the ampersand is called "et" in Spanish, but is pronounced "y" (or presumably "e" case dependant) just as & is pronounced "and".

February 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

It is called "et" in Spanish as a reflection on its roots in Latin. The & symbol is a ligature of the letters e and t, which spell the Latin word "et", which means "and".

The name "ampersand" in English comes from when & was the 27th letter of the alphabet and called simply "and". The letters were recited and at the end, "X, Y, Z, and -- per se -- 'and'."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampersand

February 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TravisMeeeeeee

They dont take "dad" as the correct awnser

May 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

That would be "papá".

May 2, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AllMEs

I answered exactly the same as Duolingo and a sign popped up to say that there was "another" translation. Same/same?

June 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

When there are multiple equally valid ways of saying something, Duolingo likes to let you know that yes, your answer was correct, and here's another way that's also correct. It's part of the education process.

June 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ray251082

I wrote "El ninio y tu padre". Why is that wrong?

August 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

"Tu padre" can only mean "your father", when you are on a first-name basis with the person you're speaking to (including family members).

"Su padre" is "his father", "her father", "their father", or "your father" when you are not on a first-name basis with the person you're speaking to.

The prompt was "his father". It can only be "su padre".

August 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mnrgarcia

Um. Why is "dad" not acceptable here? I've used "dad" instead of "father" multiple times previously for "padre"?!

August 29, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elaine370723

i picking the correct solutions but get it wrong

September 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

What were all of the options and which ones did you select?

September 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris967368

Why not "the SON and his father"?

September 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

That would be "El hijo y su padre."

September 22, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DeepRaj757150

It sounds more like ..."el niño es su padre"

September 25, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeremy586906

Don't use the "&" it counts it as incorrect

October 22, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sharon158589

Thanks! Good to know! Can "&" ever be utilized in Spanish?

February 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

See Rae.F's answer to jellonz.

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yzzej

I feel so happy today that I could have a central party

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chrislecko

The letters provided with necessary accents are not working for me

May 5, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AsherGeorgy

What if the boy's preferred pronouns are she/her?

May 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

Then she's not a boy and the sentence would be "La niña y su padre/The girl and her father." Simple.

May 18, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

It used to be simple, but in today's world where gender categorisation isn't necessarily determined by biology I guess Asher has a point. Still, for the sake of learning language, a boy's pronouns need to be "he / him" even if she prefers something else. Thankfully Spanish won't have any issue with their possessive pronoun at least.

May 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

My answer was from the perspective of our current (better, more nuanced) understanding of gender and how it's not tied to what the body looks like.

May 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trumaine7

I got this didn't but how does "su" mean "his" instead of "el"

July 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EugeneTiffany

"Su" means, your, his, hers, and theirs. That's how. "El" has nothing to do with it.

July 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cassie76104

but doesn't "él" also mean "his"?

August 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grafduckula

No. "Él" means "he".

August 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

"Él never means "his." However, "él" can mean "him" when it is clarifying whether a Spanish indirect object means "él/him," "ella/her," or "it." For example, "I give the apple to him/I give him the apple" can be translated a few different ways:

"Yo le doy la manzana" (Literally translated as "I him give the apple"; colloquially translated as "I give him the apple").

OR

"La manzana yo doy a él" (Literally translated as "The apple I give to him"; colloquially translated as "I give the apple to him" or "I give him the apple").

Similarly, "a él" OR "a ella" can come before the Spanish indirect object. For example, "A ella la doy a Anne la manzana. (Literally translated as "To (her) Anne I give the apple"; colloquially translated as "I give the apple to Anne" or "I give (her) Anne the apple").

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EchoZulu70

'daddy' is also incorrect

October 31, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NixolB20

wait, it cant be "the boy and father" ?

October 31, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethanyZmu

No, it can't be because that translation skips the word "su." Look at Rae.F's comment on Robyn162970's post - they explain how the word "su" can be used.

December 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LovellaCru

So why have they marked mine wrong?

November 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

We have no idea what your answer was, or how the question was presented to you.

November 16, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yzzej

Hello?

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

This is a learning forum, not a social forum.

March 24, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tengo780508

What is the problems?

May 20, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulDima

Another translation is my translation.What is wrong with Duo?

May 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

We don't know what it showed you or how accurately you typed your answer.

May 21, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EchoZulu70

'...and his papa' is marked incorrect

October 31, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/B59n11

Error in accepted words. I wrote "The boy and your father." This was accepted and should not have been.

November 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grafduckula

Actually, it's perfectly correct. "Su" can mean "your", if the speaker addresses the listener formally.

November 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/B59n11

Thanks for the reply! I'll get all this some day!!!

November 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AustinBoll2

I accedentilly clicked it give me the points!!!!!

January 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/c8R6

I think it's more correct to perceive it as "the boy and the father of himself" and similar way in other cases

October 1, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

I mean no person offense, but your opinion is incorrect, c8R6.

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TylerTerhu1

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

October 18, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MariaSt5

Uh, would be simpler to just invent a different word for each of these pronouns.

October 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BethanyZmu

Languages are never simple. Even English doesn't make sense lots of the time. Think about plurality - it would be so much simpler to say "gooses" and "mooses" and "tooths" to keep things consistent, but we don't. Speakers of a language don't really get to invent words to "make things simpler" - it would be very confusing if speakers just made up words whenever they wanted. No one could understand each other.

December 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MoeSyzlackin

I put in a wrong answer and it said it was right....hopefully the report goes through as noticing my answer was wrong?

May 18, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EugeneTiffany

And what was your wrong answer which was right?

July 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mikeg1214

How can the boy not be his father's son?

June 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

Who said it was the boy's father? If Aaron is out with his friends Bob and Charlie, and Bob and Charlie's father Doug is supervising them, then Aaron and Doug is the boy and their father.

November 4, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Robert877622

Custody

June 29, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/America281192

Wait to other countries do the whole custody thing??

July 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ekihoo

...what? What and/or where are they...?

June 7, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jaren313390

And is y or is o

June 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

"Or" is translated as "o."

"And" is translated as "y" or "e."

July 10, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jellonz

"Or" is translated as "o" or "u."

July 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerald807

You: Who was at the door? Me: The boy and his father.

July 20, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stard2

This is wrong....su means your

July 24, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EugeneTiffany

True. Among other things.

"Su" can also mean, hers.

Have you considered trying:

"The boy and her father"?

July 28, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdrewy

i did that and it let me

August 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jdrewy

su = your, his, her, their sus = yours, his, hers, theirs

August 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
  • 2061

No. Su means a singular thing belongs to
él
ella
usted
ellos
ellas
ustedes

Sus means plural things belong to
él
ella
usted
ellos
ellas
ustedes

Both su and sus are the possessive adjective:
your thing, your things
his thing, his things
her thing, her things
their thing, their things

It's suyo/suyos/suya/suyas that are the possessive pronouns:
the thing is yours, the things are yours
the thing is his, the things are his
the thing is hers, the things are hers
the thing is theirs, the things are theirs

November 4, 2018
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