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"El caballo fue a la granja de sus amigos."

Translation:The horse went to its friends' farm.

May 30, 2018

82 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cdhoughton

Why not, "The horse went to the farm of his friends?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sherry686575

Yeah that's what I put too and it really is what the sentence says.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

What it "really says" is "The horse went to his friends' farm." For those learning English, it is important that they learn how to write English possessives.

To suggest otherwise is doing them a disservice. The grammatical structure of Spanish and English are similar, but not the same. Those learning English or Spanish need to be able recognize the differing ways they say something.

Here are some references for those who are learning English, (or need to improve their English). https://www.proofreadnow.com/blog/bid/91213/Possessives-in-of-Phrases https://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/CCS_prepphrases.html https://www.ef.edu/english-resources/english-grammar/forming-possessive/

Unfortunately, in the U.S., as large number of U.S. adults are either illiterate, or badly ill-educated. See these:

https://education.cu-portland.edu/blog/education-news-roundup/illiteracy-in-america/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2016/11/01/hiding-in-plain-sight-the-adult-literacy-crisis/?utm_term=.890bc9456060

"According to data from the 2014 U.S. Census Bureau, 21 percent — or nearly 60,000 — of working age adults in the city lack a high school diploma. At the same time, 19 percent of adults cannot read a newspaper, much less complete a job application, according to the National Center for Education Statistics."

"50 percent of U.S. adults can’t read a book written at an eighth-grade level."

"14% of adults can’t read anything." https://www.creditdonkey.com/illiteracy-in-america.html

"More than 30 million adults in the United States cannot read, write, or do basic math above a third grade level. " 19% of high school graduates are functionally illiterate. https://fee.org/articles/did-public-schools-really-improve-american-literacy/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nEjh0qr4

This question brings up the constant issues on DL: should translations be literal or grammatically/colloquially correct in the other language? and what is Duo teaching? Here, the literal translation is "farm of its/his friends," while the grammatically correct is "its friends' farm." As for what Duo is teaching (always a puzzle), how does AI know that you know to translate la granja de sus amigos as "its friends' farm," if that is the objective, but it doesn't require you to conform?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chuckdumas

hi joker,

I guess your answer and its frustrations depends on the will of the user.

If one is playing the duolingo game, eventually you type in what DL wants and get your '25' (or give up).

When you are studying, your question becomes more important.

I try to understand what the learning objective for that skill is and then frame my translations around that. For instance, if it is a preterite third person LO then I would default to forming a past tense translation.

Sometimes to achieve the learning objective awkward sentences are used in the prompt which are hard to apply to the translation well. And of course, there is also the app and database which may not yet have all the valid solutions.

I try to understand the lesson, analyze the prompt (from the learning objective viewpoint), form a grammatically and orthographically correct response, and then review the forums to resolve any nuances or errors in my answer. I also review the forums on every correct answer. The information and amplification of Spanish (and english) in the forums is amazing.

I'm OK with giving DL what it wants the second time around as long as I understand the material and how my answer differed from what was wanted.

It is frustrating to be correct and called wrong until you remember that on the other side of the interface (somewhere) are people.

:)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

I have not known DUO to disagree with sentences are well-formed. Remember, the "literal" is not always a good translation..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/quegar

Reported 3/20/19


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

It's wordy, and it's better English to avoid using prepositional phrases for possessives, unless one has good reason to do to.

In addition, we need to know how to recognize Spanish possessives and to create English possessives.

It's doing a major disservice to teach ways of speaking to non-English speakers that make it clear that their English isn't very good.

See this English writing handout. https://writing.wisc.edu/Handbook/CCS_prepphrases.html

And this: https://www.proofreadnow.com/blog/bid/91213/Possessives-in-of-Phrases


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

Did those who gave the downvotes bother to read the references.

I don't make thins up, nor do I base what I say on my personal (uninformed) opinion.

Instead of giving a down vote, explain why it should deserve the down vote.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nEjh0qr4

Thank you, sguthrie!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rriggstx

The word tile 'friends' does not have an apostrophe to indicate possessive


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

Yes, and it should.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

Still doesn't. Dec. 2018. Tried to report, but no way to.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trifolium

I just reported ~ Feb 2019


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimPearson5

Still not fixed in March 2020 :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeoGirard

Check your grammar. It's = it is. The possessive its has no apostrophe.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Barry426988

The farm of its friends means the same thing as its friend's farm.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizadeux

friend's farm = la granja de su amigo (one friend)

friends' farm = la granja de sus amigos (more than one friend)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

Yes, But the second way is wordy, and thus not standard good English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

Sure, but just not good English. It's wordy, and ignores the better way of saying it.

Also, before you vote me down, first provide some evidence that what I say is incorrect. I guarantee that no English teacher will teach that wordy writing (verbosity) is good.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nimalibu

Why can't I say 'The horse went to his friends' farm'? Doesn't that mean the same thing essentially?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elizadeux

It's accepted now. July 2018.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ym9DVP1R

it is not as of Nov. 2018


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pastorsteve99

but it didn't accept '...went to its friend's farm'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marcy65brown

That's incorrect placement of the apostrophe.
One friend's farm (amigo)
Several friends' farm (amigos)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

The phrase is "de sus amigos," which is plural. Therefore, the translation "his friends' " places the apostrophe after the the "s." If the phrase were the singular "de su amigo," then the apostrophe would be before the "s," as in "his friend's."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lindafraser

Not accepted February 2019.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

That is what I wrote, and it was accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MiriamHatkin

I said: "The horse went to the farm of its friends." Why did you mark this incorrect? I have literally had it with Duolingo and plan to take these issues to social media


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrentaPoole

I used "the farm of his friends" and it was marked wrong. This should be correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

Not really. We all need to be able to recognize a Spanish possessive form and translate it into an English possessive (that uses the apostrophe).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GenieEliza

I know English. I'm trying to learn Spanish. I think Duo should accept the answers translated literally to English. Translating 'the horse went to the farm of its friends' helps the mindset of training the brain to 'think' in Spanish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WaimanLee1

the horse went to the farm of its friends. This was marked incorrect.

Throughout this section ITS has been used to refer to animals so I tried to maintain that pattern


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

It is normal in English to use the impersonal "its" for animals which are not pets.

And DL accepted "its" in the translation.

"farm of its friends" is technically correct, but not the standard way of saying it.

The standard, simpler and less wordy way, is to say "its friends' farm."--Which is what Duo gave.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mike209223

Whose standard? Of its friends is exactly what the exercise states. There’s nothing wrong with that translation and we’re supposed to be learning Spanish. It can be translated more than one way and the meaning still would be clear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael189866

Hear hear. This is an exercise in the simple translation of - let's face it - utterly nonsensical phrases. We're not out to win the Man Booker International Prize for our literary efforts. We just need to show that we understand what the Spanish phrase means. Unfortunately we are judged by computer algorithms which only look for certain words in a certain order. Accurate machine language intelligence is possible, but is not achieved on a shoestring budget and relying on the opinions of users for corrections and updates. It takes a proper academic team and years of work. We expect our teachers to have qualifications in the subject, don't we?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chuckdumas

Accurate machine language intelligence is possible, but is not achieved on a shoestring budget and relying on the opinions of users for corrections and updates.

Wikipedia is doing a darn fine job using crowdsourcing for content (as is Duo (many volunteers). As far as shoestrings, you could help by becoming a Plus user.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

The "standard" is what is what English teachers teach in our U.S. schools. It is the obligation of Duolingo to teach what any English teacher would teach!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaymondElFuego

Yeah, just keep reporting. Definitely should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Laconica49

The apostrophe is missing from the word " friends' " in the allotted words. The word "its" is correct - no apostrophe should be there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/msrozzie

I wrote, The horse went to the farm of his friends. This was accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/quegar

Aww but the conversation about the validity of the construction of the sentence is what helps us to learn. Both manners of speaking are correct. So accept your answer however you may say it.And move on knowing that you have learned something about the construction of sentences in the Spanish language. Keep up the good work duo!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dennisk2v

Why is it "de" instead of "con?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hernr

"de" means 'of' or beonging to and "con" means 'with'. So, the horse went to the farm that belonged to its friends, he didn't go to the farm with his friends.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elzorro3

I came to learn Spanish, but I keep failing because of my mistakes in English. Doh!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

A lot of Americans don't know English very well.

And if one doesn't understand/know one's own language, it is harder to pick up a different one.

Good luck with learning both.

P.S., I am still learning about English, and I have taught English. And I have learned a lot about English through using Duo and translating both ways.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elzorro3

True enough. I'm English and I get this wrong quite often. Actually it's extremely common to get this wrong. We also have folks who insert apostrophes where they are not required. Chalked signs outside shops are a favourite place for these, such as "Cabbage's half price today". In fact this (mis)use is referred to as a "Grocer's apostrophe"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael189866

A lot of people everywhere don't know their own language well. A good education is not universal.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael189866

Are you failing, or is the system failing to accept your perfectly adequate answers as correct ? It is so frustrating. The world is full of ad-supported apps which have more holes in them than a cheese-grater, which get fixed at a snail's pace, if ever.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jwbards

That may be true, but I wouldn't call DL one of them. The teams have been very responsive when I've reported errors. And I think there's a fine line between accepting a response that may be technically correct but is not colloquial; as evidenced by other comments here, users learn some English along with the language they're technically studying.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VictoriaDe423947

The word 'friends' should have had an apostrophe - friends'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Autumn-Glory

The horse went to his friends farm...not acceptable??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

Yes, Autumn-Glory, your sentence is not acceptable because there is no apostrophe after the "s" of "horses."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Birdie857947

Still no apostrophe 12/14/2018 (Sorry Europe, American date order)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarolynH.3

DUO had "friends'" in my/their answer. 12.15.18


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mugs974352

Adding another request to change "friends" to "friends'" (ie to add a final apostrophe). The current answer is not correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Typographicman

"friends" should have an apostrophe. Reporting doesn't have enough options anymore (in this case it's the English sentence that is incorrect).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Linda_from_NJ

I think that if you check "There is a problem with the exercise," then the English gets corrected.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Remlapneb

Why do they keep giving lingots if there's nothing to buy?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Laconica49

The apostrophe is missing from the allotted words.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DianaBecke

Friend's or friends' but not friends


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteveWildones

An apostrophe would be nice for this translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/loriom

Not well worded.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Janina135773

Friends needs an appostrophe


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marqus774857

Did y'all hear the clap?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gurayemir

why is it wrong? "the horse went to the farm of its friends'"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zomobug

The correct answer is missing an apostrophe on "friends". Should be "friend's farm". So, I said, "farm friends". It means something different, but, the answer is incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ken_Schiering

the horse went to the farm of his friends says the same thing and should be accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DyN1pnHO

the horse went to the farm of its friends. Should be accepted. Have reported it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/win841537

Why not, "The horse went to the farm of his friends"? It's literal, and the program does seem to prefer literalism.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rembob

cdhoughton is correct, "The horse went to the house of his friend." It should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marcy65brown

The house of his friend = his friend's house =la casa de su amigo
His friends' farm = la granja de sus amigos


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DyN1pnHO

yes. it's = it is


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sguthrie1

Not really. Better to learn how Spanish creates possession. As Marcy says, "la casa de su amigo" = "his friend's house."

Normally, English speakers will avoid the more clumsy and wordy, "house of my friend" .

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