Maybe because piuttosto is not that easy to translate into English? "The message is clear instead" is not what an English speaker would say. It doesn't sound natural.
These days, I think you're most likely to hear, "The message is actually quite/pretty/fairly/etc. clear."
Question to the native English speakers: is it correct that "The message is clear enough" and "The message is rather clear" can be used interchangeably? If yes, I will report this as an error.
I don't think 'the message is rather clear' is good English at all! We would say fairly clear in this context.
"The message is rather clear" is perfectly good English, although slightly old fashioned. Fairly or quite are both more common in modern speech. There can be very subtle differences between these depending on context.
Ok, thank you. However, then my question is: are "the message is clear enough" and "the message is fairly clear" interchangeable? :-)
I think those have slightly different meanings and would not regard them as interchangeable.
I'm a native English speaker, and I think these two sentences can be treated as practically interchangeable, although, for the second, I would more naturally say "pretty" than "fairly." There can be slight shades of meaning in the choice of the word. The shared meaning element in these sentences is that, while the message may not be absolutely clear and unambiguous, the speaker considers the intended meaning obvious. Both of your suggested sentences say that.
I do not think they are interchangeable. If something is clear "enough" it exceeds the minimum standard by some unspecified margin, and could even be entirely clear in some contexts. If something is "rather" clear it is somewhat clear but not entirely clear.
roman...I have to agree with gufinoverde. "Clear enough" to me doesn't imply an exceeding of the minimum, rather it describes something that is adequately or sufficiently clear. "Clear enough" and "rather clear" would both satisfy the need for "clarity" in this case, whereas "somewhat clear" sounds to me as though greater or further clarification is still required. I'd also agree with gufinoverde that 'pretty' and 'fairly' are synonymous with 'clear enough.'
4sily: On the one hand I feel there's a slight difference; on the other hand I'd be hard pressed to explain what that is. If there is indeed a difference it'd be so slight that I feel that in most cases they could be used interchangeably. Any difference in use would have to depend on a clearer context.
I was marked wrong for using "somewhat". I agree that it should be accepted, so I'll report it to DL.
Richard, in my mind there's a difference between 'somewhat' and 'rather' -- 'somewhat' for me is (well...somewhat) negative, meaning inadequate, less than optimum, ok, but insufficient. 'rather' on the other hand strikes me as more positive, meaning 'quite'. So for me 'somewhat clear' and 'rather clear' don't mean the same thing and it's the latter that (for me at least) equates best with the Italian. Another example: It's somewhat cloudy outside and might possibly rain, but I think the rain will hold off vs It's rather cloudy outside and I suspect it will definitely rain. In Duo's example, a message that's 'somewhat' clear implies it needs some clarification or further explanation, whereas a message that's 'rather' clear implies to me that it's quite clear and requires no further clarification.
Germanlehrerlsu, thank you for replying. The first time i recall hearing piuttosto in a sentence, I believe it was "Il mil lavoro è piuttosto noiso", and the translation was "My job is somewhat boring", so that is the way I have always remembered it. This also supports your view of "somewhat" as a negative word. Some of my dictionaries show "rather", as well. To my ears, "rather" sounds more British. Though American English is my native language, I am, after nearly 70 years, still learning. Again, thanks for your reply.
Richard, thanks for your take on this. At 73 I'm still learning too. In fact I'm leaving shortly to study for a month in Trieste. Did it for a month several yrs ago in Bologna & it absolutely makes a diffeence. I'm hoping this time too to be 'rather successful" and not just 'somewhat so". :-) Ciao (tom).
FWIW, the top four translations for piuttosto in Google Translate are: 1) rather, 2) quite, 3) pretty, 4) somewhat. Using "quite" is tricky, because this word is used rather (pretty? quite?) differently in the UK and USA. Leaving that aside, "rather" and "pretty" both carry the implication of "more than somewhat, but not totally".
The question is where "piuttosto" falls on the spectrum. Google's ranking suggests that it's somewhere between "somewhat" and "rather", but closer to "rather". However, Google is NOT a reliable reference for nuance! Can a native Italian speaker weigh in on this?
I'm fairly sure that rather and somewhat are synonyms. Neither has any judgment of amount and can be equally subjectively interpreted by the reader. If duo insists on "rather" then all this talk about "the message is clear instead" being accepted means the program has rather/somewhat failed in teaching us what piuttosto means. : )
is there a reason "the message is clear instead" should not be accepted? Or is it just not in the system yet?
I think in Italian, the "instead" would be at the beginning for that to work. "The message is rather clear" is what I had (after peaking).
Yeah, I think that it cannot have that meaning when it's in this postition...
I put "The message is pretty clear" and it was accepted (and is good, common English) (Edited after receiving the message below).
Lorenzo...'rather clear' strikes me as a more positive statement than 'somewhat clear' which seems wanting. For that reason I think 'rather' is a more accurate expression of 'piuttosto'. Just my sense of it. Still worthwhile reporting.
No it isn't. You are missing a verb. "The message IS pretty clear" would be fine.
Yes, of course. Typing error. (I am English!). Apologies, and thanks for correcting it.
Pamela, apologies. I almost asked if it was a typo, but not knowing if you're a native I thought it best to just go ahead and answer your question straightforwardly. I'd add "pretty clear" is probably more common than "rather clear".