The new Portuguese Tree is under Test! :D :D :D
I know it's been years we have told you we were updating the Portuguese tree to provide you with better content and error fixes!
No, we haven't forgotten you!!!
The new tree is here! And it's under an AB test!!!
Currently, some users have the new tree and some have the old tree. Duo will compare statistics for the two groups and decide which tree is better.
What is new?
The new tree has been carefully reorganized to solve a series of problems we had in the old one. Among the updates, these are the most important:
Basic skills got easier:
- We decided to teach our persons and conjugations more slowly, because they're things not very evident in English. This way, you won't get flooded with all the conjugations for several verbs at once
- Articles were also placed in different skills, so the distinction for beginners is less confusing
A new "body parts" skill
Some general tweaks:
- Hard expressions are taught a little later
- There are a few more useful words at the beginning of the course, especially in the food skills.
- Some words that were misplaced were put in their correct places and sentences are now (mostly) pointing to their right skills
- Some breeze between verb tenses. They were too condensed at the end of the old tree, now they're taught more sparsely
Goodbye "daquele, naquele, aquilo, etc." nightmare! (So we hope...)
- Our old tree was throwing too many prepositions and demonstratives together without even teaching the basics first!
- Now you're going to learn the prepositions first, not contracted, and not all at once
- Then you will learn their contractions
- Then you will learn the demonstratives
- Then their contractions
- We really expect that this will turn this subject into something way easier (or at least less difficult) than before
Natural and common sentences in the old "present perfect" (now "pretérito perfeito composto") skill!
- We had too many verbs that were such a headache for learners, because even native speakers would totally avoid them in this tense
- This skill now has less words and they're able to form nice sentences, although the tense is still confusing for itself of course, due to it being different from English in meaning.
Well, it's not guaranteed that this new tree is better, but I do believe it is.
But only testing will tell.
Why can't I see the new tree?
If you can't see the new tree (it should be exactly where it's always been, with some different skills in it), you're probably not in the test group that got it.
Please don't be sad. Since this is a test, we can only be sure the new tree is better after some time.
Unfortunately we don't know how long the test will take to finish. Usually a few months.
Will I lose progress?
Not really. Your XP and levels will stay, but some new content will appear as incomplete, but everything will still be unlocked up to the point you were before.
Feel free to ask any questions and report bugs here :) Remember to write "Danmoller" somewhere in your comment to make sure I'll be notified.
We hope you have a great experience with this new tree and that it thrives to make your learning even better!
See you! Have a great learning!
The new tree is definetely better than the former one. Congratulations!
Thanks Danmoller and Portuguese Team! I’m very happy and excited for this new tree, it really looks better organized!
Are we expecting new unseen words? If not, are there already plans to increase the vocab with new vocab skills with different topics in the next update?
According to this https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/27444256 the PT tree has 1950 lexemes and the biggest, Norwegian, has 3265 lexemes. I would love if at some point we got more vocab to learn!
Excellent! To celebrate the new tree I treated myself to a new one-year plus subscription.
Engraçado como eu vejo: "naquele/naquilo/nalguém/noutro/nalgum/nestes/nas/numa/" como uma coisa fácil de se aprender mas é um tormento para quem está a aprender. xD
very nice (the best) idea to add a last checkpoint right before the Political skill.
A new "Future subjunctive" skill (old three "Future" skills stayed).
Wow, how cool is that?!!
and if you have already completed the tree and got your golden owl, you will certainly keep it :)
No, this is not the case.
We will be losing our golden owls (I don't mind).
Could I please request from your contributor team and staff, that you rename the Verb skills to add "Verb:" in the long name form of a skill?
- Past - Pretérito Perfeito
- Past - Pretérito Perfeito 2
- Pretérito Perfeito Composto
- Future Subjunctive
- Imperative Verbs 2 ("Verbs: Imperative" is already correctly named)
This is an urgent request.
I really try to focus just on the (now 27 -3 "Present1-3" -3 "Infinitive1-3" =21) more advanced verb tense grammar skills (old tree) as my new strategy concept, and my SHOF progress page https://duome.eu/Thomas.Heiss/progress and "order by skill name" feature requires, that the long name of a skill has the prefix "Verb:" to perfectly align all of them one by one under each; your old tree accomplished this nicely.
To best work on my strategy grammar concept I would personally require to filter those 21-27 more advanced "verb grammar" skills either on the offical www.duolingo.com web portal and "Home" tree page or on my duome.eu SHOF progress, but that is unfortunately not yet supported.
Oh.... thanks for that.... I the past the owl didn't fly away from tree transplants....
In the future, we hope to create a skill just for this tense in the tree, in order to avoid confusion
We left that message for users that are still using the old tree. The new tree has the future subjunctive introduced in its own skill first.
Muito obrigada Danmoller! Just found the new content and it is very exciting!
Ahh, somehow I am in the wrong test group for Spanish, Esperanto and Portuguese, I guess I will just have to sit here and wait.
First of all, a huge obrigado to you guys! It looks so much more developed than before. Although I do have one question, why are some skills showing as incomplete while some other incomplete skills still have a strength tracker?
Unfortunately I myself am not switched to the new tree to be able to see it....
But I presume the following:
- New skills
- New skills with only new words: totally incomplete
- New skills with some of the old words: partially complete
- Old skills
- If there are new words: progress should be partial (I guess...)
- If it has only old words: completed as before
Very excited to see the new tree, I know what I'm doing tomorrow! I've definitely been struggling with some of the issues that have been updated in the new content.
It's good news (after the horrible Crowns update), but is there a way to notify users about this (email, push notification)? I had to dig a little into the forums to find what the hell happened...
Hmmm... only if you suggest that directly to staff because it's a feature we don't have access to. The best way would probably be using the help page and its report function.
I'll probably mention this idea too when I have the opportunity.
I have got both the new Spanish tree and the new Portuguese tree. Extremely happy. Thanks Team Portuguese for adding so many new contents. The new course currently has 91 skills. Can anyone confirm how many skills were present in the original?
Love the new tree. The sections provided have filled in those gaps in my learning and really enhanced my understanding. Thank you Duo!
"Goodbye "daquele, naquele, aquilo, etc." nightmare! (So we hope...)"
Thank you! Obrigada! :)
Thanks Danmoller - looking good (I wish there had been separate contractions lessons when I was first learning!!).
One problem though, with the subjects which have had new lessons added. What I'd expect to happen with these (and what happened with the previous tree updates I've encountered in other languages in the past) is that if I do one of these subjects, I'll get the new lessons first, and only when they have all been covered will it revert to the normal skills progression.
This is not what's happening. So, for example, I have subjunctive present showing (in both duome and duolingo/users/...) as having seven "missing"lessons. What I'd like to and expect to happen is that I'd do that subject (once), and it would immediately go down to six. What is actually happening is that it took four attempts before it actually decreased (this also happened with Arts, which only had one new lesson - it took four goes before it showed as no new lessons).
I assume that why this is different from the previous tree changes I've seen is that the (stupid) crowns system is somehow interfering with the new lessons system.
Not an insurmountable problem, but really annoying.
Quote: I assume that why this is different from the previous tree changes I've seen is that the (stupid) crowns system is somehow interfering with the new lessons system.
The skill "Subjunctive Present" in contrast to the new ""Subjunctive Future" is a perfect example, where there no real conversion happened, but where some old lessons variables (pre-crown) have been RESET by the "tree A/B update".
This skill stays be to crown level L2 for me, and has thankfully not been reset to crown level L0 (purple).
On your "Home" page (web portal), based on the "crown UI 2018 overlay", you actually have to do nothing for all L1-L3 skills.
You would only have to work on new/converted skills, which are purple, to get them back to crown level L1, if you only stick to DuoLingo and you would not use the SHOF portal anymore.
The SHOF progress page is highly based on the old lesson data in your extended user profile.
This pre-crown era....
This is the reason why so many L1-L2++ converted skills show "+x lessons".
When you use Fiercat's "whitelist workaround" to bring back the nice 2016 Python based UI frontend with the 5 dedicated strength bars, you can actually see, that the PT tree update really has RESET all or some lessons in your old L1-L3 skills!!!
But there is a simple solution to this:
You can test-out those converted L1-L3 skills, and this will reset the old lessons variables and mark the skill as LEARNED" and you will get a new timestamp from the day you finished the skill.
You will then get the old popup message: "Congratulations. You have successfully learned skill x" and the skill will get back 100% strength (5 full strength bars).
If you want you can have a look at my SHOF progress page, where I have already done this in the last days for several old skills, excluding ALL of the more compliated grammar/verb skills: http://www.duome.eu/thomas.heiss/progress
You only need to add "/test" to test-out a single skill, once you have the skill URL opened over your SHOF progress page (which initially starts a "crown session"); this is not possible with the "crown UI overlay" on your "Home" page; you would need to have opened the old 2016 UI frontend!!
The very nice SHOF progress page combines both worlds:
old lessons data based on the old 2016/2017 web portal and extended user data (which is still nice, and I beg the author for not completely removing it!)
After the "crown update" the crown session variables have been additionally added and read (one variable, the max sessions/lessons per crown level, e.g 2/18 sessions done, has not been added yet to the SHOF progress code).
IMHO the tree conversion has not been 100% re-engineered by Duolingo staff for the "crown overlay", so it still RESETS the old lessons (max 10 single lessons per skill, which you were able to complete on its own; not anymore with the "crown update"!).
At least that is what my analytical research of my own extended user profile showed me for my Portuguese tree.
I made a third skill list for those specific L1-L3 converted skill where the above "test-out" technique applies: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/27496755
We really do not need to complain about those "minor issues", if I compare our successful tree update with the latest Spanish tree update.
All 58 Spanish skills have been converted back to crown level L0 (purple) and all previously gained L2-L3 crowns have been taken away for all of those skills! :-) :-)
BTW: In my above comment I am talking only about the old "lesson test-out" feature!!!
"How to access the tests if you can't see the keys": https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/27797518
The rewritten "crown skill level test-out" code seems not yet to align very well with the old lesson variables, which are usually RESET in converted (crown L1-L5) skills from updated trees, where not ALL skills are - thankfully - reset back to crown level L0 (purple colour)!!!
Losing my French and Spanish owls was very disappointing. I’m glad to see that won’t happen here.
Question: I noticed that I got a lot of questions wrong when I typed/selected ‘obrigada’ instead of ‘obrigado’. I have a Brazilian coworker that explained the difference to me when I first started the course. I noticed that it was not tied to the [assumed] genders of the speakers in the exercises, so a woman would incorrectly say obrigado in the exercise. Has that been corrected?
There is a new team rushing for new sentences, that is probably the cause of lacking translations.
Of course you can use "obrigada", report the cases where it's missing.
Losing my ... owls was very disappointing. I’m glad to see that won’t happen here.
You better don't hope too much ;)
My owl is definitely gone (I don't care that much).
See my other comment with the link to my SHOF progress page.
I really have to re-do several lessons in many skills (according to my SHOF progress page).
Various double checks for skills != crown level 0 (I was level 2 for many) showed me, that the newest A/B tree merge obviously broke the duome.eu script code because the informations:
- "Learning" (for finished skills) - +x lessons numbers (for untouched skills, same crown levels)
do not match anymore (was fine before - incl. all the finishing dates) with my offical "Home" page on the www.duolingo.com web portal for all of the listed skills :-()
I still have the old tree but have seen the new one and it looks nice. When you make the final decision, please do not only trust the statistics. Please also use your common sense and listen to the different comments. And please do not make the decision only yes or no. I would believe that the new tree is better, but maybe the comments will show that some details of the old tree were better than the new one, so maybe, in the end, the best would be to have the new tree but to keep a few features from the old one and maybe making a few further improvements suggested by the users.
Awesome, I will check it out when I get finished with redoing my Spanish, French, and Italian trees!
Danmoller, thanks for the update. Do you know if/when the Portuguese/Duolingo section of the Tinycards app will update along with it?
Hmm... I have no idea :(
I don't know who created the TinyCards course and if they are up to date with our release.
This is very cool! I struggle a lot with the "daquele, naquele, aquilo, etc." so this should be awesome.
I did notice one small typo in the Preposition Contractions 1 Tips and notes page- unaffected is spelled "unnafected".
Danmoller. I have to congratulate whoever is the author of the stories. They are as funny and as entertaining as I have seen anywhere and I learn new words and get used to the accent, with them. I look forward to finishing my daily practice, so I can go on to read a story. Only one problem.....I have read them all (twice).....MORE.....MORE.........MORE!!!!!!!
Thanks guys, nice job
I am currently missing 4 skills in my words / skill strength viewer list (87 of 91): https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/24416411$comment_id=28072488
I will try to re-strengthen those three missing skills which have now only 25% + 75% strength but which were shown 10 months ago (last test).
But what about the missig skill "Verbs: Pluperfect"??
I completely re-learned it with stampstamp 06/09/2018 (learned_ts) and it has now 100% strength!
Anyone can confirm those issues on their own side? Have many skills are you missing?
What happened to the skill "Past perfect" = "past per.": https://www.duolingo.com/skill/pt/Verbs%3A-Past-Perfect
Has it been merged? Into what skill?
I had issues with this skill on the old tree and it was not shown in the "Duolingo skill strength viewer" list and therefore words could not be found in the duolingo.com/words list: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/24416411
I can not find it anymore for my "Vocabulary Overview API" re-test.
Hi Danmoller and the Portuguese moderator team,
you know all about the French/Spanish courses and English from ES/PT CEFR rumors...the good and the ugly.
Does anybody from your team know or how would a linguistic person probably rate your English->Portuguese course on a CEFR scale?
- for the taught Portuguese vocabulary (2000 lexemes)
- how many grammar and verb tenses from A2-B1/B2 are included: Which grammar has been left out so far from higher CEFR Bx/C1 scales?
Sorry, I still have no Portuguese grammar book here...
......but I know that your team has been working for a while on the "grammar summary FAQ" thread and I really like all your thorough guidelines and many "grammar skills" in your last tree.
This is one of the recent threads "In House courses VS Incubator courses": https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32840643
My (longer) answer about my personal view, experiences fears and suggestions is included: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/32840643$comment_id=32852556
Is your team aware of any plans in the near future to:
- include further grammar (if there is any left)
- add (maybe) more vocabulary for your great English->Portuguese tree with the introduction of "filtered views" (intermediates might like longer trees, for beginners shorter trees are IMHO better!)
or like a dramatic "theme-oriented skill" shift - with elimination of several dedicated "grammar skills" (worstcase scenario!!!) - like the French tree12 has experienced by staff/contractors?
Currently I am going through the PT->DE and PT-EN (CEFR) reverse trees....
Please feel free to comment here and if you have time in the other above linked thread (I can also link your team comment).
This is the direct link to your other "Sucesso!!! - The new Portuguese Tree AB Test is completed!" thread and my comment there: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/28034723$comment_id=32853550