Returning to Portuguese. It's good to be home again
I just finished an intensive 5 month Spanish focus. I wanted to push myself to the point that I wouldn't be stumbling through every conversation. I also took two graduate level Spanish classes. I'm starting to feel Spanish burnout, so I thought it was a good time to refresh my Portuguese.
I have the new tree, so I thought I was re-earn my Golden Owl. I also started Busuu Portuguese (from scratch) to make sure I review everything. I found a few things surprising in my studies.
Training my ear and brain for Spanish comprehension helped my ear for Portuguese. I though five months of no Portuguese would have left me behind, but I have an easier time listening now.
Portuguese still feels more natural to me, even after surpassing this level in Spanish. I'm almost B2 in Spanish and just A2 in Portguese. It was the first language I studied here and it just feels like home, four years and a dozen languages later.
I forgot how helpful this forum was. The Spanish forum is very active and very loud, with a lot of noise and chatter. The serious questions here are a nice change.
I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts. Have you experienced anything similar while juggling languages?
I'm gonna answer in Portuguese so you can practice a little ;)
Fico feliz que você tenha voltado a estudar Português, e de fato, é muito difícil conciliar português e espanhol, o que provavelmente pode te levar ao "Portunhol", mas com o tempo você conseguirá administrar bem as duas.
Eu também tive problemas quando comecei a aprender alemão e sueco ao mesmo tempo, então decidi que teria de deixar uma delas para depois. Até hoje eu falo aranha em sueco pensando que é alemão :/
If you have any doubts, please ask me. I'm here to help!
Eu vejo os semelhanças entre o português e o espanhol como uma vantagem. Claro que um pode se confundir entre os dois idiomas, mas para saber um dos dois idiomas ajuda muito com o processo de acumular vocabulario. Acho que seria mais difícil para uma pessoa que não sabe qualquer dos idiomas para aprender qualquer, porque ele/ela não tem o conhecimento de um idioma bem similar.
No meu caso, aprendi como mudar uma palavra espanhola ao português, e agora que eu sei as tendencias dessa mudanças um pouco melhor. Se eu não sei uma palavra no português, eu posso inferir o que é muitas vezes porque sei o espanhol.
Acho que é um ajuda saber um outro idioma similar...and mixing things up is just something that happens.
Woah I literally started Portuguese so recently but because of my Spanish I literally understood everything you just wrote.
So here is something to know: I am a Spanish speaker too, and I am pretty sure almost all of that structure comes from Spanish. It also means I have a tendency to use Spanish Cognates in Portuguese. And the fact you speak english as well, and know some of that language, might make the sentence structure I used much more clear.
A lot of people can do what you did on both sides of the Portuguese and Spanish aisles
Acho que seria mais difícil para uma pessoa que não sabe qualquer dos idiomas para aprender qualquer, porque ele/ela não tem o conhecimento de um idioma bem similar.
That's what happened to me. German was easier because I already knew English, however I didn't know much German when I started learning Swedish, which led me to mix them up.
It's great that you are already able to take advantage of their similarities. By the way, your Portuguese is great! Parabéns pelo progresso e continue o bom trabalho.
And it is great. I am trying to morph spanish and portuguese words to french, and it was much harder than the previous task. But I am sure making progress, even if not just with Duolingo. And thanks for the compliment; I have been practicing a lot recently, and I think I might be at B2, but I would need to review the characterization for that.
I'd agree completely that from my own experience from a comprehension standpoint any work in one helps you understand the other just because there is a lot of overlap. If you build a little vocabulary on one you have almost a 50% shot of it being something similar. That said it can make communicating/ speaking correctly tougher if you're not confident and strong in at least one of the languages. Ten years ago I had to take a break from my Spanish to strengthen my Portuguese (I was too much a beginner at both) and would mix them up way too much.
I knew the vocabulary would transfer, but I am really surprised that listening transferred, with such different accents.
Believe me, you will have a fun time testing out all of your converted L2/L3 skills where the SHOF progress shows "+x lessons", even a skill was not converted back to the purple L0 crown level.
So many old sentences are back from 4-5 years (because of crowns, and shown for a skill test-out) and the most difficult questions I always seem to get at the last of the 20 questions :-)
I am still in my process to finish those 3rd skills listed here: https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/27496755
"False alarm: Skills - still shown as crown level 2 - have luckily NOT been changed / reset"
Those converted skills are kinda reset from the old (2016/2017) lesson variables, so basically you can / need IMHO to test-out again, but if you don't do, they will not conflict your "Home" crown overlay tree (not reset to L0).
If you look at my page you can see, that I re-learned many of the skills...I have not completely finished yet...way too many skills ;)
My SHOF progress page was quite "red" (+x lessons) before from top to down ;)
Português é minha língua materna. Eu era fascinado pelo idioma russo por causa da literatura, mas quando comecei a frequentar a igreja católica ucraniana aqui no Brasil, desanimei do russo. Agora voltando a estudar russo, faço confusão com o ucraniano dada a semelhança entre as línguas. Também tenho dificuldade em estudar idiomas parecidos ao mesmo tempo.
Spanish is the main language that I'm studying but I also decided a few months back to start portuguese - at a slow pace, I've got most of spanish grammar and thousands of words, but I still have thousands more and some small bits of grammar - so it's not a bad time for me to start learning another similar language -at a slower pace. I'm very attentive to the differences between spanish and portuguese and I think as long as you do that when studying two similar languages and remember to prioritise one over the other for a while, you can juggle them both quite well, as for even more distant languages? Better in some instances, but it's not like you can learn a word in one language, come across it in the other later and not even have to look it up if it's similar.
If you are not already doing it, I would try the portuguese course from Spanish. I think it will come to you faster that way, in addition to the other benefits it has.
I morphed my Spanish into portuguese, and its quite cool, and I still can do Spanish pretty fine.
Yeah, I did start doing it that way, but the Portuguese course for English speakers has a lot more to offer, and I'm learning English for Spanish speakers now so I'm learning a lot of words based off that, maybe once I've completed Portuguese for English speakers and English for Spanish speakers, and I've improved my spanish by means of other methods outside of Duolingo, I'll go and do Portuguese for Spanish speakers, and work on my portuguese.
Ok! The golden owl is mine again!
My tree was converted to level 1 and 2 crowns, so I might go back and raise all the verbs to the next level. I feel like that will have a better value than just vocabulary.
You obviously successfully re-registered for completing your tree with 1951 "words" (lexemes)?!
- 1) Get all lexemes (DL ids) shown: 2853/2919+48
- 2) Get more words than just 1951
- 3) Bring strength back from 43% to 90%+ ;)
- 4) Remove all "red" from your SHOF progress page by completing all lessons: 346/463+7
By re-doing 4) and 3) with the skill test-outs, which also re-strengthens my skills by re-learning them, I could push my vocabulary "words" (lexemes) already to 1980/1942 words and I have not even completed yet ALL lessons (424/463+5/7) or new/updated purple crown L0 skills in my updated tree.
The "skill test-outs" really help to get several old hidden sentences from (2-3) 4-5 years ago which might also show NEW vocabulary if some words have not been initially shown for the first max. 10 lessons.
I'm concerned with squeezing a few more words out of Duolingo. I'm working on a 5000 word Memrise course and I'm going to find my local Brazilian/Portuguese newspaper. They publish weekly and it would be worth the investment I think.
There are so many 5000+ courses available on Memrise for PR and EU/Portugal that is quite confusing.
Which one did you choose?
Ah nice, this EU one.
I really enjoyed this one
Enjoyed: Does this actually mean you have already finished it? ;)
BTW: Do you use Cooljingle's "all typing" and "auto correct" together with "Memrise Audio provider" user scripts for the Memrise web portal?
Tudo bem! Tenho dois amigos Brasileros e vão vir em minha casa hoje. Praticamos português e inglês enquanto comemos.
I'm pretty sure I learn with "time", even without practice.
Not sure if that happens to Everyone, but I'm certainly getting better in old stuff while I study new stuff.
I find that sometimes it takes a week or two for a concept to set in. It's only when I take the pressure off myself to learn it that the idea really becomes clear. So I think I'm experiencing the same thing.
I think taking a break does change my understanding a bit. But I also think just keeping on going when it gets tough will probably lead to more learning generally. But of course I think payoffs are really important when learning, because it is what makes it worth it. And burning out is real.
I find it incredibly odd you took two grad level Spanish classes almost being B2; I am surprised you got in. Were they 3/4 credit hour classes. I find that really bizarre.
Anyways, two things: I think 'juggling' gets easier as you practice.
And I think with Duolingo general courses, people learn to recognize a lot of stuff generally well. But to become a more active user in a language requires using it more; and hours of crowns might lead to that point, or just doing a laddered course. I bet if you did the Portuguese course from Spanish, you might be able to better link the similarities from the languages, and work being a more active user of Portuguese. And if you are A2 and want to learn faster, I think it would make more sense to do a course from Portuguese, so you are writing and actively using the language more.
"I find it incredibly odd you took two grad level Spanish classes almost being B2; I am surprised you got in. Were they 3/4 credit hour classes. I find that really bizarre."
The classes were two intensive Spanish courses, designed for educators who had some Spanish experience, but needed a refresher. They each covered two college level Spanish classes and were 3 credits each.
Ok, that sounds very different than a typical grad level class; what you describes as an intensive class with the caveat of it being for educators. When I hear grad class, I don't think of that; if you say intensive class, that sounds communicative of what it was. But if it is listed as a grad class, it is a grad class. That is true.
I thought you meant like reading full literature books in Spanish, and discussed it with good depth with native speakers. That is a whole different ball game. And it would be very surprising if you were in a class like that at almost B2, in my view.
Yes, it was an intensive graduate Spanish class. Most of us felt like we moved up a level after completing them. My almost B1 moved to almost B2 and many of the people who were B2 moved to C1 from the experience.
Great. Not what I typically think of with a grad class. But that is great. Intensive classes can be good.
Tu nunca mais apareceste no Discord... Nunca mais falei contigo! Espero que possamos nos reencontrar! Você é uma pessoa extremamente gentil.