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"The father is cooking."

Translation:De vader kookt.

3 months ago

5 Comments


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DuoIngTheThing
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Is it pronounced as "vader" or as "fader"?

3 months ago

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xMerrie
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3 months ago

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xMerrie - Would that be a "v" or a "f" phoneme? Or even somewhere in the middle?

I listened to the link you provided, but it became even more unclear to me.

In the German language, this specific distinction is crystal clear, but I couldn't say the same for Dutch.

3 months ago

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xMerrie
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I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by "phoneme"? (As the example below is the only case I can think of where the meaning would change.) Though I do think I understand your question.

The Dutch "v" and the Dutch "f" are two different letters, pronounced differently. The "v" is voiced and the "f" is unvoiced. If you put your fingers on your throat, where your vocal chords are, you should be able to feel them vibrating when you say "v", but not when you say "f".

For example:

It depends a bit on the dialect though. Some dialects make the "v" unvoiced as well.

The Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_phonology

3 months ago

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xMerrie - How about we give it another shot?

Okay, perhaps I could use a different term for the sake of my question. Instead of "phoneme", just image I used the term "phone". Phones are particular speech sounds. I know, to really understand a language, one has to go to a deeper place. So please bear with me.

What I mean is in reference to the first syllable of the word "vader". So if I were to break the Swedish word for father into syllables, it would be "va-der". So what I was initially asking for was, how does one correctly pronounce the "phone" for the letter "v", as it appears in the "va" syllable in the Swedish word "vader"? Is it voiced in terms of a vibratory "v" sound as in the English word "virgin"? Or is it unvoiced in terms of a "f" sound as in the English word "falcon"? (*When not option "A" or "B", resort to option "C" or "D" and/or keep asking.) How does one differentiate an unvoiced "v" sound in comparison to a voiced "v" sound? I'm confused. I get the vocal folds vibration deal, but other than that, how can I distinguish this sound difference? Regardless of whether the "v" is voiced or not, does the Dutch "v" sound like an "f" or like how a "v" in English would normally sound? Overall, I guess I wasn't focusing on different Dutch dialects, but rather on what is considered the standard form of the Dutch language itself. Similar to what Germans would describe in their own language as "Hochdeutsch". That is more or less the grounds to where I was heading with my question. Although, it's always good to be aware of all exceptions to the rules. So I'm glad you brought these considerations to my attention.

After all this thinking, what is really the standard version of a language, right? I get a kick out of this because my native tongues are Spanish and English. While in the English language one pronounces the letter "v" differently than the letter "b", in Spanish these two different letters sound exactly the same. So a word can be pronounced in the same way, but mean something different. For example the words "acervo" and "acerbo". They don't mean the same thing, but one pronounces them in the same way. So this ordeal with the letter "v" is nothing new to me. I understand this letter is prone to cause all sorts of discrepancies. Sure, one could argue that this distinction in the pronunciation of letter "v" was determined by the improper usage of language by the masses, but with time, this incorporated error became the norm. However, languages seem to evolve and operate in such ways.

*Here's some background on the pronunciation of "v" in German:

http://joycep.myweb.port.ac.uk/pronounce/consonf.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation_of_v_in_German

*Nonrelated topic. By the way, I need to start implementing the use of markup on DuoLingo and/or in general. I recently watched some basic tutorials on how to markup, but I should rather start practicing. It definitely helps the text stand out, and it sure becomes more readable.

3 months ago