I nearly finished japanese course, but I haven't finished to learn japanese at all.
I would be very happy if you keep going on to make new lessons at the japanese course
After I finished the Japanese course here and did some on Memrise and LingoDeer, I really overestimated my Japanese skills. I found out the hard way when I moved to Japan to learn the language.
I found Memrise to be a pathetic waste of time too. Sadly, most sites that offer to help one learn Japanese are "faking it." That is my perspective from someone who has been around the language for a long time in Japan.
Memrise is good for vocabulary. Doulingo is good to understand the basics of the language.
I have not found any sites at all that teach Japanese thoroughly enough to get you even close to fluent. I suppose having 3 writing systems and different grammar than English complicates it.
"Specifically, we used the JF Standard, which is a Japanese-language education framework based on the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages (CEFR), an international standard for describing language ability. This enabled us to make sure we cover 100% of the necessary topics, vocabulary, and grammatical concepts in the right order to bring learners to the CEFR A1 level upon completion of our course"
I've read that some people attempt the "Learn English as a Japanese speaker" Course to try continuing to learn, but from a different angle. I haven't tried this yet, but it sounds interesting!
All in all, I do agree with you though, would love more lessons! :)
I'm doing this right now. It's certainly not perfect, but after getting used to it, I don't think I'll ever go back to the English-to-Japanese course. You also get to help people with English in the comments.
Yeah, doing the JP-EN course is much better in terms of things to learn. It is more thorough, since Duolingo seems more focused on teaching everyone English.
If you want to learn Japanese there is a program called Radio Japan International Learn Japanese I tried it and took advantage of it I advise you
Completing a duolingo course places you somewhere between beginner and intermediate. That is when the real learning starts.
Get additional sources, read books, write stories, start talking with people, etc. Or, if you are really serious, take a class.
Between completely clueless and beginner would be closer to the truth, at least for the Japanese course.
Hopefully that is just a matter of time. Give the volunteers and crew some time to improve the course. It takes a lot of hard effort.
It is great that they are working on it and I would not like to discourage that.
Fayke, the Japanese Language Proficiency Test (JLPT) has 5 levels, 1-5. N1 is the hardest. N5 is the easiest. Duolingo's current Japanese course is aimed towards preparing people for N5 (If the person learns all of the content it offers, not just gets to the Golden Owl at the end.)
According to the the Foreign Service Institute (FSI) it takes military personnel (with an above average aptitude for language learning) around 2,200 hours active study time to learn Japanese. That is with the appropriate spread of Japanese to study (So, with material spanning the entire N1-5).
It is good for people's expectations to meet with reality. Duolingo's current Japanese for English speakers course does not intend to bring someone to or even near fluency. It covers very basic material.
Additionally, according to the FSI, among second languages native English speakers (I'm assuming raised monolingual), Japanese is the very hardest of the languages in the hardest languages category for them to learn.
Category IV Languages: 88 weeks (2200 class hours)
"Super-hard languages" - Languages which are exceptionally difficult for native English speakers...[Arabic, Chinese – Cantonese, Chinese – Mandarin, Japanese, and Korean]
Note: All estimates relating to the length of time needed to learn these languages to a Speaking 3/Reading 3 (S3/R3) proficiency level [see definitions of proficiency levels here] assume that the student is a native speaker of English with no prior knowledge of the language to be learned. It is also assumed that the student has above average aptitude for classroom learning of foreign languages; lower aptitude language learners will typically take longer. Although languages are grouped into general "categories" of difficulty for native English speakers, within each category some languages are more difficult than others.
Source: FSI Language Timetable Chart.
Their page that was more specific now has a broken link. That page had a chart that was more in depth, with a star next the hardest language in the hardest category, it was Japanese.
I agree completely, my message wasn't meant as criticism against the Duolingo course. Learning Japanese (as a westerner at least) is simply more demanding than most other languages.
At around an N3 level, I still consider myself as a low intermediate learner.
No worries! I often use comments as opportunities to disseminate broader information. :)
"between completely clueless and beginner"
That's good and I agree.
But what's even better is the fact, that it is a solid start, we know some kanji, hiragana, katakana, we have some basic hearing comprehension and we can build up from there. The real learning starts after finishing the duolingo course. And I appreciate duolingo for that. It made the difficult-full-of-struggle beginning a fun experience.
Before, I couldn't imagine how someone can start learning a language so difficult and alien as japanese is (being a slavic native speaker).
I agree, but every language here in Duolingo puts you in a different level, based on its size and on what is your native language. I am a native portuguese speaker. When I finnished the French tree I felt like I've learned A LOT, actually I felt this this all the way through the tree. In the other hand, german has been a true strugle for me, I think that trhough the entire tree I found every new concept of the language harder then french. And that is because french is closer to portuguese than german. Besides, both german and french trees are very extensive and full of content but it doesn't happen with japanese which is very thiny when compared to the others, sum that to the facts that @Usagiboy7 just mentioned about how hard japanese is and you have a recipe for a tree that is going to introduce you to just a little part of what this language really is.
I've gone through Advanced Japanese I in school and have been studying it off and on for years.l. So far my impression of Duolingo is that it's good practice for someone that already has a grip on basic grammar, kana, kanji and vocabulary. I'm only through level 16, so I won't go praising or roasting it just yet. I will say this however, if I was coming in with no Japanese language experience, I could see this course being frustrating and nonsensical at times. For me however, it's been good for practice and refreshers.
Yeah It definitely doesn't make sense to test you on words when you've had no introduction to them and have to muddle your way through. Having the first level being pictures with the words, then taking the pictures away after that level would make so much more sense.
please try japanesepod101 you will find good practical to learn japanese. I also new learner in japanese language and find duolingo as good fun game but it is very limited in vocabulary. Keep a Good Work Pow..
I would recommend looking elsewhere for a better Japanese learning experience. If you are not too cheap to spend money, I would recommend one of the many kanji learning sites. They are most certainly not about just learning kanji in isolation. They are excellent for learning your grammar and all kinds of expressions as well. There are sites out there that are far better for learning Japanese than what I have experienced here.
Also, to the OP, you said you nearly finished the Japanese course. Why does your profile say you're level 11? I believe level 25 is "finished."
I've finished the Japanese course with a placement test, and got a golden owl. In the end, it's only level 10.
Even the longer courses only get you to lvl 13-14 if you just do each lesson once.
I could definitely be wrong, but by finished I think he means he has made it through all the content "once". Does it change on a second time through to include more information? (I haven't made it once through either, so I'm curious).
finishing the course means completing the tree and getting the statue, which is entirely possible at level 11. I have 15 and 14 for Spanish and Swahili and those are completed trees.
dang... guess I've been doing it wrong. I'm at lvl 1 in position (section 3) and at level 15. Been maxing most lessons out to lvl 5 (or lvl 3 or 4 at least) before moving on to the next one. I don't feel like I've anywhere near grasped the concept of the lesson in one run through.
Leaving something alone for awhile, then coming back to review it is usually more conducive to long term memory. Even so, if youre a native English speaker, Japanese will most likely be the most difficult to learn of any course on Duolingo. (But well worth it.)
I personally recommend pairing Duolingo with outside resources to help folks follow when and how the grammar, conjugation, and declension (conjugation but for non-verbs) shifts.
Good luck! :)
I agree. Or do little monthly tests people can do to see where they can improve on.
I write things I don't know so I can study them. That's how I'm learning Japanese.
I just start using the duolingo app 4 days ago, but I have already studied quite a lot of Japanese. Duolingo is a great app, but many of the sentence structures are pretty simple, so I would look at other methods if you want to bring your Japanese towards a intermediate level.
I am afraid that you will have to learn and improve your Japanese (just like any other language) during your whole life… The languages are changing rapidly, and you have to talk regularly, preferably with a native speaker, to maintain your skills. You could address https://eurekly.com/subject/japanese, this resource helps to find a good online tutor who will help you improve your knowledge of the Japanese language.