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Too much attention to English... I guess because that is what we know way better than Spanish, and the English sometimes challenges our sensibilities.
Learning Spanish is hard. I work hard on the exercises. As a break, I sometimes go to these discussions to see what everyone is arguing about. It is amusing but also frustrating and sometimes seriously annoying.
Let's concentrate on Spanish!
I am no grammar guru far from it but I am a native english speaker from england. Regarding a preposition should never be at the end of a sentence in english that simply is not true. I would say what time is it at or what time is it on or what did you do that for. It may or maybe not grammatically correct or even the "queens english" but most of the country would speak like that.
That just isn't correct. Can you provide a reference for this?
In most cases, ending a sentence in a preposition is not an error. Many people were taught not to do it, but that doesn't make it a rule in English.
If I were learning to speak English, I would want to learn the language people actually speak. Do we really want to teach English language learners to say stuff like "to what music do you listen"? It sounds overly formal, awkward, and to my ear, a little less clear. That would be a real disservice to them because 9 times out of 10, native speakers are going to ask "what music do you listen to". But maybe I am just an under educated hillbilly.
This rule - to the extent it ever existed - is on its way out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preposition_stranding, https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/prepositions-ending-a-sentence-with, https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/grammar/ending-sentences-with-prepositions
Incidentally, I am also a highly-educated, American native-speaker. As it happens, I was an English major and I also have two graduate degrees that required considerable writing.
One of the most useful lessons I ever had about the English language was when when I was in high school and some teacher or other educational authority rather shamefacedly admitted to us that our school system was now going to teach a different approach to some particular issue (the Oxford comma, maybe?) than it had taught in the past. I learned something about rules and flexibility and language change.
Hi, I was taught English grammar by "Latin obsessed grammarians." In college (BS and MS from the University of California) no one ever told me anything different. However, in checking, I see now that English grammar rules have changed! https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/11/28/grammar-myths-prepositions/
Cathy749922, that was good of you to say! Kudos!
I like the Winston Churchill quote about that topic, which shows how a speaker has to "tie themselves into knots" to avoid using prepositions at the end of sentences.
But, let's hold the line at the use of unnecessary, redundant ones like "Where are you AT?" (hee-hee)
Man, you guys are giants of grammar.
It would be real interesting to hear a couple of Spanish learners chat over a beer. "Meeting you is pleasing to me." "To me the beer is enchanting." I'm siding with Ryagon, although I realize it might depend on your region. I really don't think most folk would say "to what music do you listen", no matter how proper it is.
Truthfully, I would use none of these phrasal verbs. They're all avoidable inelegance.
Which shirt are you wearing? What are you doing? When will the delivery arrive? How do you plan to behave now?
"Listen to" isn't a phrasal verb. Listen is intransitive, and you literally need "to" in order to describe the act of listening TO a specific noun or pronoun. https://www.grammarly.com/blog/transitive-and-intransitive-verbs/
Phrasal verbs change the meaning of the constituent words in the verbal phrase, such as in your examples. https://www.grammarly.com/blog/phrasal-verbs/
Sure it can. Have a read of the other posts. It has been discussed thoroughly.
Linda, it's not grammatically wrong as far as I know, but very informal. Usually you'll only use that word order if you're surprised, seek confirmation or didn't hear what the person was saying. If you want to ask a genuine question, you'll generally put the question phrase in front.
Stan, dangling prepositions have never really been wrong. But there used to be an effort to make English more like the Romance languages, where things like clause-ending prepositions or split infinitives don't exist.
It's mainly a question of style, and ususally either placement is fine. But the verb "listen" is a bit special since you can't use it without the "to" when you're adding an object. It might be unique for that in English. "Listen to" has a fixed-phrase status and you shouldn't rip that apart, very similarly to phrasal verbs:
- What are you putting on today?
On what are you putting today?
Yes, we dinosaurs learned to tie ourselves in knots so as to not "split infinitives" or "end a sentence with a preposition." And I agree that those "rules" have fallen by the wayside. But the fact that the rules have elasticity in them does not make the translation ".. to what" incorrect. To more modern (looser?) ears, it may sound awkward, but that doesn't make it wrong. Few people correctly use the word "whom" in conversation and may find it odd or awkward when they hear it. (Compare: "for whom are you waiting" with "who are you waiting for.") That doesn't make it wrong. Duo should accept BOTH translations.
Festinne, many people (used to) regard Latin as the language of nobility and science, so those rules were introduced to push English closer to that high status of Latin and make it sound less like a commoner's language.
I also wanted to add that clause-final prepositions are not only an English specialty, but a Germanic one. Especially the Nordic languages, like Swedish, Danish and Norwegian use those "dangling prepositions" a lot:
- Hvad bruger man det til? - What do you use that for?
German, however, doesn't allow these types of prepositions anymore:
- Für was benutzt man das? - For what do you use that?
Speaking as a dinosaur, I learned this rule in grammar school and had it repeated through college. However, when I made a career shift and taught English Composition beginning in 2000, I researched this particular topic and learned the information that RyagonIV so very helpfully provided. As a result, I did not teach that dangling prepositions were grammatically incorrect. I did, however, explain the previous rule so that my students would understand that all languages are living creatures that change over time (sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly).
Well I just wonder from where comes the idea to make English work more like romance language which the rule of "no dangling preposition" comes from AFAIK. I do not care if it changes or not - not that i am able to stop or force any change in how we speak ;P Just curiosity since I was absolutely sure for like 30-40 years since when i first was taught that dangling prepositions are very English.
Tantasa, your question is a bit hard to grasp. "Which music" would be alright, but using "which" implies that you have a specific list to choose your answer from. In the case of "which music" it sounds like you're asking "which genre of music".
Both "are you listening to" and "do you listen to" are okay here.